Shrinkage,Tangles, & Knots come with the Nappy Territory...More Harm than Good???

[scarcity21]

Hey Poohbear!

First of all, your hair is looking great. I remember your beautiful puffs and twists from earlier in the year and you've made some wonderful progress!

I feel the same way you do. I think when we're working with 4a hair, it's very easy for it to tangle and curl back on itself. I used to wear my natural hair straightened 99.9%. I didn't know how to use heat properly and I didn't know my hairstylist was burning my hair off until it was too late.

Now that I rarely straighten, I have a unique challenge: finding ways to keep my hair UNSHRUNKEN. I realized very early as you're realizing that shrunken hair can be bad, bad news. My hair likes to curl and coil back on itself way too much for me to do the shrunken thing.

So I braid, I twist, I band, I bun... anything but let my hair dry shrunken. Besides, I think those styles keep my hair more detangled from wash to wash.

I think that if using heat works for you and keeps more hair on your head, go for it. Personally, I'm too lazy to use heat.

this is what i need to start doing

 

[neenzmj]

I think I replied to this thread once before, but I've made some changes to my hair since then. I guess the first thing is to say "never say never." I had been holding quite firm in my declaration that I'd never put any chemicals in my hair again, but as my hair got longer, the amount of knots and strands of hair that constantly came out finally broke me down. My ends were dry, brittle and uneven (even after deep conditioning). Even after rollersets my hair just wasn't behaving as well as it once had. My overriding concern was the health of my hair -- it just didn't feel healthy with all the shedding, breaking and knotting (and I'm talking a balls of shedded hair after each detangling session.)

Well, a couple of weeks ago I made a decision to trim my ends AND put a mild relaxer on my hair (just enough to relax a small amount of the curl -- about 5 minutes.) The difference is amazing. Without a doubt, trimming my ends has made a major difference, but since relaxing some of the curl, I haven't struggled with the knots or the major shedding. My hair feels so much healthier and so much easier to deal with AND, I still have my curls (just a little looser curl.) Part of me felt like I sold out, but I think I did me and my hair a big favor.

 

[Priss Pot]

Excellent post SSBD, and I totally agree with the bolded part a couple of mis-informed hair-care heffas had the nerve to say that to me and when I asked them "well since I have no chemicals in my hair and as soon as water/moisture touches my hair it reverts to its totally shrunken state, then what is my hair"...all I could hear were crickets chirping in the room; they had no idea what to say...

But...your hair is not naturally straight. Natural is subjective. Some people think that natural is in reference to texture (me) while some think that natural is completely without chemicals.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember seeing a picture in your fotki a while ago tha showed your hair wet (I believe). The roots were shrunken, but the ends were permanently straightened. Considering that you only wear your hair straight and use a stove heat hot comb, I would think that there would be some permanently straightened hairs going on. I'm in no way knocking what you do to your hair, but I was just offering a different perspective of why someone may say that your hair isn't completely natural.

 

[keluric]

But...your hair is not naturally straight. Natural is subjective. Some people think that natural is in reference to texture (me) while some think that natural is completely without chemicals.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember seeing a picture in your fotki a while ago tha showed your hair wet (I believe). The roots were shrunken, but the ends were permanently straightened. Considering that you only wear your hair straight and use a stove heat hot comb, I would think that there would be some permanently straightened hairs going on. I'm in no way knocking what you do to your hair, but I was just offering a different perspective of why someone may say that your hair isn't completely natural.

I can see where you're coming from. I think natural means sans-chemicals (relaxers, perms, etc.) I'll let people go on the chemical dyes. I do think some people have a broader view of natural... not only sans-chemicals but also natural in texture. I don't completely agree with that but interesting perspective.

 

[Priss Pot]

I can see where you're coming from. I think natural means sans-chemicals (relaxers, perms, etc.) I'll let people go on the chemical dyes. I do think some people have a broader view of natural... not only sans-chemicals but also natural in texture. I don't completely agree with that but interesting perspective.

Yeah, I just wanted to give a different perspective. In no way was I bashing heat (I plan on using it sparingly myself); I just know that it could cause a change in texture. Therefore, the "new texture" that arises from using too much heat, isn't natural. But that's just one perspective.

There are plenty "natural" theories out there. One isn't better than the other, though. They're just different opinions.

 

[keluric]

Yeah, I just wanted to give a different perspective. In no way was I bashing heat (I plan on using it sparingly myself); I just know that it could cause a change in texture. Therefore, the "new texture" that arises from using too much heat, isn't natural. But that's just one perspective.

There are plenty "natural" theories out there. One isn't better than the other, though. They're just different opinions.

I agree. I don't use heat for just that reason: heat damage in the past. Naturals can successfully use heat. You definitely have to be careful with it, though.

 

[PinkSkates]

Originally Posted by TSUprincess04
But...your hair is not naturally straight. Natural is subjective. Some people think that natural is in reference to texture (me) while some think that natural is completely without chemicals.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember seeing a picture in your fotki a while ago tha showed your hair wet (I believe). The roots were shrunken, but the ends were permanently straightened. Considering that you only wear your hair straight and use a stove heat hot comb, I would think that there would be some permanently straightened hairs going on. I'm in no way knocking what you do to your hair, but I was just offering a different perspective of why someone may say that your hair isn't completely natural.

You're wrong; You have mistaken me for someone else! My natural hair is healthy, strong and damage-free. I will be posting hair growth updates next month.

 

[TwistNMx]

I think I replied to this thread once before, but I've made some changes to my hair since then. I guess the first thing is to say "never say never." I had been holding quite firm in my declaration that I'd never put any chemicals in my hair again, but as my hair got longer, the amount of knots and strands of hair that constantly came out finally broke me down. My ends were dry, brittle and uneven (even after deep conditioning). Even after rollersets my hair just wasn't behaving as well as it once had. My overriding concern was the health of my hair -- it just didn't feel healthy with all the shedding, breaking and knotting (and I'm talking a balls of shedded hair after each detangling session.)

Well, a couple of weeks ago I made a decision to trim my ends AND put a mild relaxer on my hair (just enough to relax a small amount of the curl -- about 5 minutes.) The difference is amazing. Without a doubt, trimming my ends has made a major difference, but since relaxing some of the curl, I haven't struggled with the knots or the major shedding. My hair feels so much healthier and so much easier to deal with AND, I still have my curls (just a little looser curl.) Part of me felt like I sold out, but I think I did me and my hair a big favor.

I totally understand.
I've been contemplating doing the exact same thing.
I don't have to have bone straight hair...no.
I want my hair to be more manageable without fighting it every other day. I love my hair, I just need to be able to manage it wet or dry and not have anymore struggles with tangles and knots. I feel like I'm tearing out my hair even though I finger comb most of the time and I can't wear it out any place.
Blessings,
HP

 

[Poohbear]

Try the Maxiglide. When I tried to just flat iron my mop, it was not cute.

BUT, with the maxiglide, it comes out soooo good, with sooooo little work. Good Luck!

I have never tried the maxiglide on my natural hair, but I've tried the maxiglide on my relaxed hair while I was transitioning and did not like it. I sold it after using it once. It was too big and bulky for me to use.

I am now having success with blowdrying, and I rarely use an electric pressing comb afterwards if I want a straighter look.

And I also agree with High Priestess... I dont have to have bone straight hair... I just like the look and feel of my hair áfter it has been blowdried in a fluffy afro. My hair is softer and stronger and I have less shedding and breakage.

 

[AvaSpeaks]

Natural hair is your hair withou chemicals and anything that alters the orginal state of your hair.

For example, let's say you don't have a relaxer, then your hair is natural.

However, if you blow dry your hair straight and then you tell someone, "well, my hair is naturally curly", then you have altered the original state of your hair.

So it's both.

 

[AvaSpeaks]

I have never tried the maxiglide on my natural hair, but I've tried the maxiglide on my relaxed hair while I was transitioning and did not like it. I sold it after using it once. It was too big and bulky for me to use.

I am now having success with blowdrying, and I rarely use an electric pressing comb afterwards if I want a straighter look.

And I also agree with High Priestess... I dont have to have bone straight hair... I just like the look and feel of my hair áfter it has been blowdried in a fluffy afro. My hair is softer and stronger and I have less shedding and breakage.

I don't do a good job with the blowdryer.My hair comes out a little puffy

 

[Priss Pot]

You're wrong; You have mistaken me for someone else! My natural hair is healthy, strong and damage-free. I will be posting hair growth updates next month.

I apologize. I just could have sworn you had a pic when your hair was wet and you were out in the sun or something.

 

[shocol]

Natural hair is your hair withou chemicals and anything that alters the orginal state of your hair.

For example, let's say you don't have a relaxer, then your hair is natural.

However, if you blow dry your hair straight and then you tell someone, "well, my hair is naturally curly", then you have altered the original state of your hair.

So it's both.

So if I wear my hair straightened, I'm going to have to qualify that by saying, 'It's been straightened, but it is chemical free.'. You just can't win with some people.

 

[Priss Pot]

So if I wear my hair straightened, I'm going to have to qualify that by saying, 'It's been straightened, but it is chemical free.'. You just can't win with some people.

But that's the thing, you're not trying to "win" anything. "Natural" is subjective. There isn't one true definition (except for relaxer-free).

If you feel you're still natural then that's fine. Don't compromise your beliefs because someone else's differs from yours. No one can expect everyone to agree with them, especially on the "What Does Natural Mean?" debate.

In the end, it's your hair and you can do what you want with it. If you want to just call it "hair" and not identify it with words like "natural, no chemicals yet straightened, chemically altered, etc." then that's your choice. No one's making anyone conform to any one belief on what natural is.

 

[Ms Lala]

I am having this problem right now. I wore my hair shrunken up this week and it's a hot mess now. I have to wear styles that are stretched. I think I'm going to invest in a new blowdryer.

 

[isobell]

But...your hair is not naturally straight. Natural is subjective. Some people think that natural is in reference to texture (me) while some think that natural is completely without chemicals.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember seeing a picture in your fotki a while ago tha showed your hair wet (I believe). The roots were shrunken, but the ends were permanently straightened. Considering that you only wear your hair straight and use a stove heat hot comb, I would think that there would be some permanently straightened hairs going on. I'm in no way knocking what you do to your hair, but I was just offering a different perspective of why someone may say that your hair isn't completely natural.

hmm i don't know about all that. I mean neither is your hair "naturally" twisted or braided ...nor is it not natural if you band it straight...you cannot because of a change in the appearance of the hair's texture declare it not natural...using heat safely does not permanently change the hair's structure like hair color or a relaxer.

I can see where you might say that the hair is not natural where styling abuse -such as overuse of heat- causes the texture to permanently change but still then I would say it was heat damaged natural hair.

defining natural hair by texture seems a bit silly and unnecessary to me, are we never to take advantage of the myriad styling choices we have with natural hair without someone coming around telling us we've jumped out of the natural circle because we stretched our hair too much for their liking?

meanwhile I've yet to see someone with natural hair that is heat styled claim that their hair is naturally straight nor have i seen a relaxed head with spiral curls claim to be naturally a type 2

 

[Priss Pot]

hmm i don't know about all that. I mean neither is your hair "naturally" twisted or braided ...nor is it not natural if you band it straight...you cannot because of a change in the appearance of the hair's texture declare it not natural...using heat safely does not permanently change the hair's structure like hair color or a relaxer.

I can see where you might say that the hair is not natural where styling abuse -such as overuse of heat- causes the texture to permanently change but still then I would say it was heat damaged natural hair.

defining natural hair by texture seems a bit silly and unnecessary to me, are we never to take advantage of the myriad styling choices we have with natural hair without someone coming around telling us we've jumped out of the natural circle because we stretched our hair too much for their liking?

meanwhile I've yet to see someone with natural hair that is heat styled claim that their hair is naturally straight nor have i seen a relaxed head with spiral curls claim to be naturally a type 2

Not once did I say that banding, twisting/braiding, or SAFELY using heat was unnatural. I just said that the permanently straightened hair from constantly using heat is unnatural. It's not up to me if you want to claim that you're natural or not. I was just giving an opinion.

And I never told you that what you believed was natural, was silly. When someone is just sharing a different perspective, it's not forcing you to believe anything. But, I'll just leave it alone because obviously my words are being twisted and the attitude seems to be running a bit heavy with your response.

In the end, it's just hair. Take care.

 

[Whimsy]

Great Thread.

My thoughts: what others think has no bearing on whats best for me and my hair journey. I am going natural, and I will use heat when I want to. I don't feel knots are the "norm" in ANYONEs hair, nappy or otherwise. I think there are quite a few nappier than thou or naturaler than thou people who want to put natural/naptural into little tiny boxes like some odd clique. I say, live and let live, do what's best for your healthy hair and let that be that.

 

[keluric]

Great Thread.

I think there are quite a few nappier than thou or naturaler than thou people who want to put natural/naptural into little tiny boxes like some odd clique. I say, live and let live, do what's best for your healthy hair and let that be that.

You can say that again! I've been natural all my life so I just roll my eyes at 2-months-out-the-gate naturals who want to tell me that any heat is unnatural... and I have a few choice words for those who go even further to say you can't have natural hair if you use any type of unnatural dyes.

 

[Avyn]

i just BCed 1 week ago and am having the same problem. But i went natural about 5 years ago for one year and i used an Allways moisturizer in a pink bottle that helped me breeze through the comb out process and kept my hair extremely texturized, soft and conditioned. i am going to the bss to see if i can find it. i have normal 4a/b hair that is prone to dryness and this was a fantastic find. my comb literally slid through my hair and it wasn't very oily either (greasy hair is a pet peeve). During this past week I have had good success with braidouts. I am doing the wig thing until i can figure out what works best though. i am going to start co washing everyday bc my main purpose for chopping was to achieve health and most of all growth and i can't get it to grow if it keeps snapping off when i comb through it. i'll find the allways and report back. hth

 

[Lucia]

I find that if I keep my hair moisturized/well conditioned and the ends mostly split free I don't have tangling problems. Shrinkage and tangling are not the same.

 

[AvaSpeaks]

I don't understand this. If your hair is relaxed then it's not natural. What's the debate It doesn't matter if you hot comb, apply heat, blow dry, whatever. As long as you don't have any chemicals in your hair, then your hair is natural.

Just like the white girl at my job with straight hair said to me, "my hair is naturally curly, I blow dry it everyday". But what she means is that in her natural state, her hair type is curly. So that's why I said it's both.

Natural hair for us (Black people), is hair without chemicals.

Natural hair for them (non-Black people) is hair that is different from their original state; curly to straight or straight to curly.

This is not rocket science. Ya'll know what natural hair is Quit playing!

 

[AvaSpeaks]

I find that if I keep my hair moisturized/well conditioned and the ends mostly split free I don't have tangling problems. Shrinkage and tangling are not the same.

I totally agree. Shrinkage is going to happen with any type of curly hair.

Tangles and knots though, that can be taken care of. You just have to be very gentle with your hair

 

[Poohbear]

Natural hair is your hair withou chemicals and anything that alters the orginal state of your hair.

For example, let's say you don't have a relaxer, then your hair is natural.

However, if you blow dry your hair straight and then you tell someone, "well, my hair is naturally curly", then you have altered the original state of your hair.

So it's both.

But you can say the same bolded statement for naturals who wear twists, braids, twistouts, and braidouts, stretched out afros and puffs, locs... those styles alter your original state of your hair too. I'm not about to walk around with my hair all shrunken up in no style all the time just so I can claim that I have 100% pure unaltered curly/coily natural hair.

 

[Poohbear]

I don't do a good job with the blowdryer.My hair comes out a little puffy

Well... ...puffy is the look I'm trying to achieve when I use my blowdryer... Hee-hee!

 

[Poohbear]

You can say that again! I've been natural all my life so I just roll my eyes at 2-months-out-the-gate naturals who want to tell me that any heat is unnatural... and I have a few choice words for those who go even further to say you can't have natural hair if you use any type of unnatural dyes.

Keluric, it's nice to see your posting again! And your hair has REALLY shot off in growth since the last time I seen it!!! Bravo!!! :notworthy

 

[AvaSpeaks]

But you can say the same bolded statement for naturals who wear twists, braids, twistouts, and braidouts, stretched out afros and puffs, locs... those styles alter your original state of your hair too. I'm not about to walk around with my hair all shrunken up in no style all the time just so I can claim that I have 100% pure unaltered curly/coily natural hair.

Those are styles and they don't alter the orginal state of your hair. Come on ya'l are making this way too technical. If your hair is nappy when you twist your hair, you hair will still be nappy is you don't twist your hair. If your hair is Type 3a curly when it's down, it's not going to change to another hair type just because you put it in an Afro.

Styles don't alter your the orginal state of your hair. Unless you are using chemicals to achieve them.

When I say "alter" the state, I mean changing from curly to straight, I mean the hair strands. And I really meant this part of the definition for non-Black people and their hair.

I said what the definition of Natural hair means for OUR hair. I wrote it in the post.

 

[Priss Pot]

Those are styles and they don't alter the orginal state of your hair. Come on ya'l are making this way too technical. If your hair is nappy when you twist your hair, you hair will still be nappy is you don't twist your hair. If your hair is Type 3a curly when it's down, it's not going to change to another hair type just because you put it in an Afro.

Styles don't alter your the orginal state of your hair. Unless you are using chemicals to achieve them.

When I say "alter" the state, I mean changing from curly to straight, I mean the hair strands. And I really meant this part of the definition for non-Black people and their hair.

I said what the definition of Natural hair means for OUR hair. I wrote it in the post.

Wow, I see that people really can't take opinions or different perspectives.

No, twists DON'T alter the orginal state of hair. Of course you'd still be natural. But if your hair is now permanently straight because of constant heat damage, then that part of your hair is really unnatural because your hair doesn't grow straight. Yeah natural can mean without chemicals and you can still be natural in that sense. But I was just stating why someone may say that someone else's hair isn't fully natural (not talking chemicals) because of permanently straightened hair. Geez.

Oh, and you can't say what natural hair means for "OUR" hair. Natural is subjective, everyone has different opinions, and that was your opinion...not every natural in the universe. You can't speak for all naturals, ok?

 

[Poohbear]

Wow, I see that people really can't take opinions or different perspectives.

No, twists DON'T alter the orginal state of hair. Of course you'd still be natural. But if your hair is now permanently straight because of constant heat damage, then that part of your hair is really unnatural because your hair doesn't grow straight. Yeah natural can mean without chemicals and you can still be natural in that sense. But I was just stating why someone may say that someone else's hair isn't fully natural (not talking chemicals) because of permanently straightened hair. Geez.

Oh, and you can't say what natural hair means for "OUR" hair. Natural is subjective, everyone has different opinions, and that was your opinion...not every natural in the universe. You can't speak for all naturals, ok?

I can take differences in opinions and different perspectives, I wasn't really disagreeing but adding a little twist to her perspective... however, who here has permanently straight hair from heat??? I don't see why you keep mentioning that, of course if your natural hair is permanently straightened from heat, it is damaged. I don't think anyone would disagree with you about that. When I blowdry my hair, it doesn't even get straight at all. I'm just using a blowdryer to dry my hair, not to straighten it. I'm not about to let it dry up in it's original natural state anymore. And I don't have any permenantly straightened areas from when I have straightened my hair from a pressing comb. And if you really think about it, twists do alter the original texture of your hair temporarily just like naturals who straighten their hair, but nothing is wrong with wearing twists or straightening occassionally if it's not damaging your hair permanently.

 

[Poohbear]

Those are styles and they don't alter the orginal state of your hair. Come on ya'l are making this way too technical. If your hair is nappy when you twist your hair, you hair will still be nappy is you don't twist your hair. If your hair is Type 3a curly when it's down, it's not going to change to another hair type just because you put it in an Afro.

Styles don't alter your the orginal state of your hair. Unless you are using chemicals to achieve them.

When I say "alter" the state, I mean changing from curly to straight, I mean the hair strands. And I really meant this part of the definition for non-Black people and their hair.

I said what the definition of Natural hair means for OUR hair. I wrote it in the post.

Natural styles like twists do alter the original state of your natural hair temporarily (which isn't a bad thing!) just like straightening with heat. Just like you said with twists: If your hair is nappy when you straighten your natural hair with heat, you hair will still be nappy if you don't straighten your natural hair with heat.

And changing your hair strands from curly to straight can apply to Black people as well, not just non-Blacks. I agree with TSUPrincess when she said you can't define what natural means for just Black folks hair. We are not limited to just wearing our hair nappy, coily, and curly all the time... as long as we don't permanently damage our natural hair.