Shrinkage,Tangles, & Knots come with the Nappy Territory...More Harm than Good???

[Poohbear]

I have been natural since 1999 and I gotta agree its not been easy- but when I made the choice to stop relaxing my hair it was truly cause I was tired of it - and I wanted to see if I could work with what I had. Yes there were days and months of frustration and alot of trial and error- but I had to treat it as if it couldnt change in texture and learn how to work with it. I have no opinion as to whether or not people should straighten their hair- Its THEIR hair. I just choose not to cause i prefer squeezable hair as opposed to blow in the wind hair. I love my knots-shrinkage, tangles and I learn new ways every day.Would you believe that after 7 years of being natural I have finally learned and can apply the concepts of low-manipulation. And guess what??? It works!!!
Onward and upward

My unstraightened natural hair is still squeezable and blows in the wind, especially with twistouts and stretched out fros and puffs. So it's not about straightening my hair to have hair blowing in the wind.

And I feel like knots and shrinkage are two different things. To me, I feel like shrinkage is more acceptable than knots. Knots (especially single strand knots) are ugly and make my hair feel rough and they can cause tangles with other strands and cause splits. Shrinkage is okay if you want to wear your hair shrunken all the time, but I'm someone that doesn't want to do that anymore.

And I wish I could adopt a low manipulation routine when it comes to styling my hair, but with my hair texture and with my desires for my own hair, I can't.

ETA: From looking at the picture of your hair in your signature, your hair texture looks looser in texture than mine, so you might have it easier so-to-speak when it comes to styling your natural hair.

 

[Poohbear]

I have a different hair type than you, but I hope you don't mind me responding.

It has crossed my mind on more than one occasion that it might be easier on my hair if I just had it blown out or somehow straightened every other week or so and wore it in a bun/protective style in between. This thought never occurred to me when my hair was still short, but it occurred to me regularly at different points of frustration as my hair got longer. The major issue with my hair is TANGLES and KNOTS and combing them out. I truly believe that detangling, for some people, can cause enough damage that they don't retain their length.

I am not ready to start using heat because I can't get over the idea that it will ultimately damage my hair and the trade off will not be worth it. So, in order to avoid excessive damage from tangles and knots, I MUST detangle carefully every day. The absolute longest I can go is every other day. After that, it's just asking for damage. Some people can go weeks without combing, but my hair would be a rat's nest and combing it out would create major damage. I think that is one of the reasons I was not able to grow my hair past bsl back in the day. I wouldn't detangle for a long while and then practically have to rip my hair out. Thank goodness I know better now.

So, the detangling daily (and protective styles and oils/butters) works for me. But the essential point I'm trying to make here is that if my hair were such that it tangled right after I detangled it, I think I would start using heat. I really do. I think that might be the better option. I'm not sure of it. But I certainly would give it a try for a while.

That's my two cents, for what it's worth.

Thanks for sharing your experience Cichelle. I like reading about others' experiences with your hair. I have read several of your posts about co-washing and detangling every day. I've even tried your routine, but it doesn't work for me given that my hair is tightly coiled and wiry and very thin strands that are densely compact. I'm glad that you found something that works for your hair. Even though you are a different hair type, I still see you as a natural inspiration.

 

[Poohbear]

If you know what could happen and do it anyway, that's your business.

I don't know what could happen... I know what will happen, especially for my hair. I'm not playing Russian roulette with heat like they say all the time on Nappturality. I'm someone that experience heat damage for the first time in my life from my mom giving me a hard press with a hot stove comb. That was the only time I ever experience heat damage. I never had heat damage from other sources of heat. Everyone's hair is different. I have learned a lot about my hair over the 2+ years of being natural. So it's not like I'm doing something that's going to automatically damage my hair. Flat ironing is one of the safest methods of using heat. Plus, I'm doing my own hair now and it's not like I'm going to flat iron wet hair, or flat iron on extremely high heat, or flat iron over sections repeatedly, or flat iron without any heat protectant. People suffer heat damage because of improper techniques.

 

[Poohbear]

Right after my big chop I searched the net and came across Nappturality. That was my first time ever hearing that heat was bad for natural hair. In a way it kind of scared me from using heat. Now I don't believe heat is inherently evil for natural hair, it's all in the technique.
As my hair grows I am getting a lot of knots, tangles and splits. If this continues I'm going to a) use heat or b) texturize. I prefer not to use chemicals but if I do want to have long healthy hair something has to give. Locking is not an option and who wants to be in protective styles like box braids and twists forever and a day? There's no point in growing hair long if you can't even enjoy it IMO.

See, I've even tried to start locs with my natural hair but I didn't feel like my hair was free. The only reason I wanted locs was for length. But I couldn't take the appearance of MY starter locs any longer. I couldn't be patient with the so-called "ugly" stage.

And as for box braids and twists, I don't like wearing those all the time either just to achieve long hair. Then when it comes that time to wash and redo my hair, I lose some of my ends from detangling and stretching and twisting.

 

[MissJ]

Girl I feel your pain. I don't know how many knots I've had to cut out of my hair. I can't keep my left hand out of my head, so that makes it worse. My left side is shorter than my right side as a result. I'm in braids now and plan on wearing them for several months. I should make it to brastrap in no time like this.

 

[Ms Lala]

I cannot wear my hair shrunken or I end up w/a ton of tangles and knots. I tried this for about a week and ended up with sooooo much breakge. I only wear stretched styles. I stretch my hair using heat, by braiding, or using big twists. I love heat and I have much less knots and my hair is more easily moisturized when I use it. I think heat in moderation can be very useful. Just make sure you are also dc'ing regularly.

 

[Guapa1]

I don't know what could happen... I know what will happen, especially for my hair. I'm not playing Russian roulette with heat like they say all the time on Nappturality. I'm someone that experience heat damage for the first time in my life from my mom giving me a hard press with a hot stove comb. That was the only time I ever experience heat damage. I never had heat damage from other sources of heat. Everyone's hair is different. I have learned a lot about my hair over the 2+ years of being natural. So it's not like I'm doing something that's going to automatically damage my hair. Flat ironing is one of the safest methods of using heat. Plus, I'm doing my own hair now and it's not like I'm going to flat iron wet hair, or flat iron on extremely high heat, or flat iron over sections repeatedly, or flat iron without any heat protectant. People suffer heat damage because of improper techniques.

I used the word 'could' for a reason.
My friend uses heat and doesn't have a problem. I used it and I did.
If you want to use heat use heat. If it doesn't damage it fine. If it does, you knew there was a possibility of it happening.

 

[harrison]

See, I've even tried to start locs with my natural hair but I didn't feel like my hair was free. The only reason I wanted locs was for length. But I couldn't take the appearance of MY starter locs any longer. I couldn't be patient with the so-called "ugly" stage.

And as for box braids and twists, I don't like wearing those all the time either just to achieve long hair. Then when it comes that time to wash and redo my hair, I lose some of my ends from detangling and stretching and twisting.

I had locs for several years too. I cut them because I was feeling .. well locked in-to certain styles once again.

To be honest PB... IMHO it will come down to what your studies, trials, and research show that your hair can handle as far as heat is concerned. I know about the tangle/knot thing.. and believe me I know about shrinkage. I'm sure if I examined my ends... they would look suspect to me too!! But you appear to be at the point to try the next level to see if you can minimize the knotting leading to breakage.

 

[Soliel185]

This is what I experienced when I took my braids out. My hair in a fro was so tangled and twined around itself that I couldn't even part it. Sticking the end of my rat tail comb in there was like throwing a stick in the forest. I couldn't comb it gently - even in sections, b/c the other sections would flop over into the ones I'd already detangled which created MORE tangles. I ended up yanking though it alot and finally I just figured I was doing it more harm than good. All the yanking and pushing and pulling were exactly the things I was trying to avoid doing to my hair. With heat it made it easier to manage, my products worked better, I could put it up with out problems and no tangles and I could detangle gently from ends to roots. But I had to go through the battle again every time I washed. The only time my natural hair was happy was in a style like braids or twists. This ultimately led me to relax. I felt bad about it, because I felt like I was "giving in" or that this meant I thought my hair was "bad" just b/c I couldn't manage it. But seeing that others have dealt with it let me know that there's nothing wrong with my decision. I think my hair will be healthier for it considering my lifestyle, and once I have the time and skill to dedicate to my natural texture I'll transition again.

 

[Poohbear]

I cannot wear my hair shrunken or I end up w/a ton of tangles and knots. I tried this for about a week and ended up with sooooo much breakge. I only wear stretched styles. I stretch my hair using heat, by braiding, or using big twists. I love heat and I have much less knots and my hair is more easily moisturized when I use it. I think heat in moderation can be very useful. Just make sure you are also dc'ing regularly.

And you are one reason why I have been thinking about incorporating heat into my hair regimen. Your hair is beautiful and your hair type looks very similar to mine, very tightly coiled. And I see how you have grown out your hair with blowdrying and then styling in twists. I also see that you occassionally straighten your hair as well. Thanks for your post.

 

[BrownSkin2]

PB I know exactly where you are coming from. My hair texture is very similar to yours and about the same length, and I have come to a crossroad where I've been thinking of incorporating heat into my regime to cut down on tangle, knots, and split ends. It's a never ending battle. My hair is the shortest in the crown area where I get the most tangles after washing or wearing it 'out'. I have worn kinky twists, cornrows and singles to retain lenght, and I have retained length that way, but I don't want to wear them all the time. I've been thinking of texlaxing or using heat on a regular basis to retain more length and cut back on tangles. I do love my natural hair, but as it gets longer, it is a challenge to keep knots and tangles out of it.

Good luck to whatever you decide to do.

 

[nappity]

ETA: From looking at the picture of your hair in your signature, your hair texture looks looser in texture than mine, so you might have it easier so-to-speak when it comes to styling your natural hair.[/quote]

Poohbear
I know my signature says nappity 4b but it really is more a cnapp. My intent about straight hair was MY reason for not doing it. On the two boards you post on you expressed frustration. Im sorry for that -Maybe you need to flat iron or whatever you need to do to fall in love with your hair again. Its all good. I know that with my hair texture- I cannot use shampoo or my 12 inch hair makes a fist that is 2 inches and cannot be combed- I know I can never not deep condition nor can i go without a leave in and on and on.... and Ive learned that my hair grows when i leave it alone. Please excuse any insinuations that your feelings are wrong. I thought I was being supportive

 

[CurliDiva]

Poohbear - this is an excellent thread!

I'm all for hearing all sides to a problem. On one hand, this makes me feel empowered because I know other natural have /or are dealing with the same issue.

But another part of me is sadden that "our" hair is not easy to live with in its natural state. The fact that we still need something "heat" versus "chemicals" to make it wearable/manageable.

If my LHCF sisters are still having problems, than I know this is SERIOUS! You ladies are the diva of haircare!

 

[nappity]

Any tips about how to deal with single strand knots, pixie knots and tangling are more than welcome I've been moisturizing my hair daily and baggying my ends, and things have improved but more tips are always welcome, esp. from a veteran

Thanks Shanikeys
One disclaimer- I'm no veteran!!
What I am is a product junkie and everything that comes up on the boards I feel I'll die if I don't try. Some things works- others, well not so much. I have found that my hair loves moisture- so I buy products that emphasize moisture. I also don't poo. I baggy every three days and I co-wash and deep condition once a week. I know that as long as I live- I cant and will never be able to wash and go- that will make for a tangling nightmare. And since I have the unmitigated gall to dye my hair I handle it with kid gloves. I only comb it when wet and drenched in a very slippery conditioner and section it with 6-8 banana clips to keep each section separate and apart from each other. LOL . Right now- I'm loving Curls Hair tea as a deep condition and Qhems honey balm and Amla Heavy cream. So I'm going to stick with it for as long as it works

Oh and when I get knots and tangles on the ends of my hair I cut them off with a quickness. Its usually less than an 1/8 th of an inch .

 

[EMJazzy]

I love shrinkage right now because I view it as my "protective style" but these single strand knots are driving me batty My hair doesn't tangle very much and I attribute that to me rinsing with cold water....when I rinsed with warm/nearly hot water I had more tangles with cold water nearly none at all. I am not opposed to flatironing because I finally figured out the technique that works for my hair as to avoid heat damage. Another thing that's working for me is sleeping with conditioner on my hair everynight.

 

[gradygirl]

This is a great thread. I know how you feel about the tangles Poohbear. I have them now and I had them when I was texturized. I have not used heat to style my hair since I bc'ed but I fully intend to. One of the reasons I went natural was because of the versatility of it. I have been using wigs as a protective style since June and I'm sick of them. I'm thinking about washing, braiding it up to dry, and flat ironing every 2 or 3 weeks. I am starting not to enjoy my hair being hidden all the time and if you cant enjoy it then whats the point of all that we do. I figure i will try the heat if it causes problems then I will cut back.

 

[Poohbear]

Poohbear
I know my signature says nappity 4b but it really is more a cnapp. My intent about straight hair was MY reason for not doing it. On the two boards you post on you expressed frustration. Im sorry for that -Maybe you need to flat iron or whatever you need to do to fall in love with your hair again. Its all good. I know that with my hair texture- I cannot use shampoo or my 12 inch hair makes a fist that is 2 inches and cannot be combed- I know I can never not deep condition nor can i go without a leave in and on and on.... and Ive learned that my hair grows when i leave it alone. Please excuse any insinuations that your feelings are wrong. I thought I was being supportive

nappity, I didn't have a problem with your post. I know you were being supportive. I was just explaining more about my views when I responded to your post. I just wish I can leave my hair alone like you.

 

[nappity]

I saw your Fotki- your hair is beautiful- good luck on whatever you decide

 

[Poohbear]

I saw your Fotki- your hair is beautiful- good luck on whatever you decide

Thank you! I viewed your profile today trying to see if you had a hair album. I love your twistout in your signature. It made me want to see more pics of your hair.

 

[danimani]

I love my natural hair. I love my natural texture. I love my natural length, esp. given the time it's been growing.

I wouldn't change a thing.

Yes, I gets knotty. Yes, it falls out. Yes, I get shrinkage--anyone who doesn't have stick straight hair, black or white, gets shrinkage.

It is what you make of it.

 

[Mahalialee4]

We all support your choices. This site is about choices. All kinds of hair perspectives and considerations are tolerated at LHCF and you need not fear getting stoned by those who make other choices. I choose not to use heat but I would not hate myself if I wanted to flat iron a section if I wanted to check the actual length of my hair but I prefer the bushy look I have and do not have problems with knots etc. and I can do so many styles that I love with out using heat. But that works for me and if it didn't I would reserve the right to make another choice. Happy Hair growing.

 

[Jetblackhair]

Hi Poohbear,
Since I have been natural, I have not actually worn my hair out but instead braided under a half wig. This is my protective style until I reach my goal or at least near my goal. Once I reach my goal I plan to use heat maybe 2 or 3 times a month. Thus far I've only had minor problems with tangling and knotting, nothing major. But too, I'm sure it's because I don't wear my hair out in its natural state.

I chose to go natural because my hair was thinning around my edges. But, after joining the board I realized that my hair was being relaxed too straight. A texlax would have worked better for me. Even though I know this now, I am still going to continue my natural journey. I want versatility with styling. I did not transition to only wear twists, braid outs, etc. I still want to wear straight styles as well and I think I'm better equipped to take care of my hair now.

So with that being said, I think your decision to straighten your hair a few times a month is fine. You know what your hair needs are and I'm sure with all of your knowledge your hair will thrive.

 

[NYAmicas]

This thread really allowed me to understand more what some naturals go through. I never understood why some are afraid or reluctant to use heat and why some arent.
I'm sorry you're experiencing so much frustration, OP. If you think heat will work for you then I hope it proves to be the case!

 

[Poohbear]

Thanks ladies for your support and taking the time to hear me out.

 

[jwhitley6]

My unstraightened natural hair is still squeezable and blows in the wind, especially with twistouts and stretched out fros and puffs. So it's not about straightening my hair to have hair blowing in the wind.

And I feel like knots and shrinkage are two different things. To me, I feel like shrinkage is more acceptable than knots. Knots (especially single strand knots) are ugly and make my hair feel rough and they can cause tangles with other strands and cause splits. Shrinkage is okay if you want to wear your hair shrunken all the time, but I'm someone that doesn't want to do that anymore.

And I wish I could adopt a low manipulation routine when it comes to styling my hair, but with my hair texture and with my desires for my own hair, I can't.

ETA: From looking at the picture of your hair in your signature, your hair texture looks looser in texture than mine, so you might have it easier so-to-speak when it comes to styling your natural hair.

For me, wearing my "natural" hair and low manipulation do not go hand in hand. I have to wash and condition every other day (at least), it takes forever to dry and I get the knots and splits you mentioned. I can occasionally get a good braidout to last 3 days, but when I press, I can pincurl or wrap at night and go at least 7 days with little to no manipulation and no interim heat usage. I love my "natural" though, so I have to wear it like that sometimes. I love that not everyone has the option to switch it up, so I take full advantage!

I've learned some great things on this board and have gotten some tips that make wearing my natural a lot easier, but ultimately I have to do what works best for my hair. I do know that getting your hair heat straightened can cause damage. I went to a salon a couple of months ago when I was too lazy to do my own hair. She got my hair Mai Ling silky straight, but some of the pieces didn't revert when I washed. I had to do protein treatments and some of the pieces just broke off. This had never happened to me before!! It's not MAJOR and no one would notice but me, but I'm very particular about my hair and that kinda pissed me off. Anyway, now I'm back to pressing my own hair, which I do quite well, and wearing occasional braidouts and wash-n-condition-n-detangle-n-leave-in condition-n-browdry with diffuser-n-go...LOL.

Good luck, Pooh. You're a smart and inquisitive lady. You'll work it out. DO YOU!

 

[angellazette]

Wearing my hair shrunken is murder, especially on my scalp!

I like to stretch my hair almost immediately after washing by putting it in big fat twists or banding while I style my hair.

I have thought about blowdrying my hair before I style it...I'll probably try it soon cause seeing those little snapped off coils is disheartening.

I bought a Jilbere paddle brush from Sally's about a week ago and I am in love!

 

[Poohbear]

Last night, I decided to wash out my frizzy straightened hair and I deep conditioned my hair with Motions Moisture Plus Conditioner. My hair is in much better shape.

Now, I have came up with another though...I really don't want to straighten my hair with a flat iron on a regular basis. I don't think a flat iron is the right tool for straightening my hair. I think that's why I got the frizzy ends as well... the flat iron just flattens my ends out rather than straightening them out. After drying my hair, I tested a small section of my hair. And that's what happened... it flattened my coily ends rather than straightening them. I even used a rattail comb to comb out the end while flat ironing it, and my ends still did not straighten out good. They were frizzy and rough from the flat iron. So I think a pressing comb would be better for straightening my hair type, but I don't have one at the moment, so I won't be trying that anytime soon.

So I decided to just style my hair into two strand twists after viewing these two albums (AGAIN) of these ladies with long natural hair who grew their hair out with two strand twists and have similar hair textures as me:

http://public.fotki.com/catheadface pw:snax

http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa140/adriennelaw/

Hopefully, I can stick with two strand twists to grow my hair out... if not, I'll just go buy an electric pressing comb to straighten my hair.

OR... I may just continue to do a bunch of different styles like Sera did to grow out her hair: http://public.fotki.com/Sera252/all_about_hair/

As long as I keep deep conditioning my hair, I think I will be fine.

 

[texasqt]

I'm relaxed but I can relate to the heat thing. When I blowdry, use a curling/flat iron, my hair seems to retain moisture much more than when I airdry. Airdrying leaves my hair tangled and brittle. I've tried everything to master that and I haven't had great results. Any manipulation, even gently finger combing, removed several strands from my airdried hair. Even now that I am attempting the bun challenge, I'm afraid of my hair breaking more than retaining the length from bunning and airdrying. Everytime I remove my scrunchie there's hair coming out but if I blowdry or flat iron then bun, I don't have that problem. IDK - for some of us heat (used the right way) helps for relaxed and natural heads. Maybe its a type 4 hair thing because of our type being the driest. Is that your hair type too Poohbear? I want to transition soooo bad but my relaxed hair acts a donkey on the regular so I can only imagine what my natural hair would be like.

 

[Poohbear]

I'm relaxed but I can relate to the heat thing. When I blowdry, use a curling/flat iron, my hair seems to retain moisture much more than when I airdry. Airdrying leaves my hair tangled and brittle. I've tried everything to master that and I haven't had great results. Any manipulation, even gently finger combing, removed several strands from my airdried hair. Even now that I am attempting the bun challenge, I'm afraid of my hair breaking more than retaining the length from bunning and airdrying. Everytime I remove my scrunchie there's hair coming out but if I blowdry or flat iron then bun, I don't have that problem. IDK - for some of us heat (used the right way) helps for relaxed and natural heads. Maybe its a type 4 hair thing because of our type being the driest. Is that your hair type too Poohbear? I want to transition soooo bad but my relaxed hair acts a donkey on the regular so I can only imagine what my natural hair would be like.

Yep, I have type 4 hair. And I experienced the same problems with airdrying that you experienced when I had relaxed hair.

 

[PeaceFlow]

I did the unmentionalble the other day and threw some relaxer on it.

Unfortunately my hair wasnt having any of it and I am now still typing with a shrunken fro avec fluffier


I had braids in for a month but when I took it out I was faced with the tangles and knots/poofiness and I couldnt take that ish any more and Im not even at your length yet.


I hate the feeling about having to explain myself If I just feel like cheating once in a while. Sometimes I catch a bus when I could have walked, sometimes I get a take-out when I have perfectly good food in the fridge. Sometimes u just cant be bothered.

I am on my way to buying my first pressing comb right now