Real Talk: Please give me examples and numbers

[FAMUDva]

BEAR IN MIND THAT BSL IS NOT CONSIDERED LONG TO PEOPLE OF OTHER RACES.
In fact I generally see most women of other races with BSL hair and this doesn't even turn my head, when I see a woman with MBL to WL or longer THEN I turn and look at her hair, BSL on a black woman would make me look at her hair but NOT on a white, asian, middle-eastern, etc woman.

Yeah, I've learned that other races don't consider BSL to be long. Like the hispanic girl I work with who is full BSL and says she has medium length hair. I just used BSL as a starting point for illustration in the question because it seems to be a goal of many here. I does say something even that with BSL not being long to other races and it being considered long to us here. As a matter of fact, I noticed on other hair boards those women start with APL-BSL hair and are chasing 40" of hair as their goal lengths. Meanwhile we are (again, the universal "we") talking about 15", 20", and 25" hair. I also get the fact that there is not much you can do with 40" of hair, but their standards seem to be ALOT different because of their experiences of what they see as long.

I know we inherit our genetics But what I am saying to you, is that I think the long haired gene, or short haired gene or whatever it is, is passed more from family to family, than being a racial characteristic!

But glad to know there are no hard feelings.

Love ya lots

Nah, never any hard feelings... I never catch feelings on LHCF . It's the place I come to escape my feelings . j/k

 

[heyfranz]

All my first cousins on my mom's side have had BSL and longer - even WL, but they have type 3 hair. My only 1st cousin on my dad's side had APL all of her life until she went to college and then got a short cut (she is type 4). She is now natural and keeps her hair cut short. She said it's easier to maintain. My daughter has been APL, my niece is now APL. My mom is APL. The longest i've ever been is full SL but i've always abused my hair and never really cared about taking care of it until recently. My 2 best friends are below APL but one has dreads. My brother's wife and all her sisters except one are below BSL but they have type 3 hair also. I have 3 other friends i work with who are around APL. I think most of the people i know personally have nice length but they have worked hard at taking care of their hair and don't go to the DS, but other more expensive salons. All of these people are well educated and are all black

 

[Xerxes]

Where did you ever read or hear about Africans having slower growth as a rule? Kinky hair, yes I know it is beneficial in that environment, but to develop slower growth? Never read it.

Could you provide a few links or articles/books from reputable sources that state that people of African decent developed slow growing hair because of the environment?

Just think about it, how many BW do you know have BSL length hair? I only know of 1 and her hair type is 3c and then I know of 2 BW with APL hair. And I work for a company with over 30,000 employees of which BW might comprise >=15% so I see lots of sisters each day in and out of work and most of us are SL and shorter.

This whole thread has me nearly dying with laughing. However, I'll try to provide some insight because everyone in their gut already knows the truth.

Scientists/dermatologists have studied African hair and have written articles that state that African hair does in fact grow slower and is more fragile than European hair.

So if you're 100% black (i.e. no Cherokee great-grandma) and a 4b/c/z like I am with hair textured like cotton, stop bellyaching about not being WL. It's so not that serious and good weaves look way better than most of the real hair I see on the street on women regardless of race.IMHO

We all should care more about the quality (health) of our hair moreso than the quantity (length). <clutching my Megatek and backing slowly out of the thread> LMAO


I will provide a link to a really nice study that shows that the average rate of hair growth for Africans was (280+/- 50 um/day) vs for Asians (411+/- 53 um/day) vs Caucasians (367 +/- 56 um/day)."African hair was characterized by both low growth and low hair density." Also, "The difference between the Asian and African rates of growth would lead to a difference of 5 cm in hair length in 1 year."

Link: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/118643476/HTMLSTART

Here's one link, but use the tools in it to read similar articles: http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...d=109095&md5=8948eaeba198da64314d79cfed81d0db

 

[MissJ]

On a daily basis, I see about one, and she really light skinnededed.

 

[Junebug D]

Just think about it, how many BW do you know have BSL length hair? I only know of 1 and her hair type is 3c and then I know of 2 BW with APL hair. And I work for a company with over 30,000 employees of which BW might comprise >=15% so I see lots of sisters each day in and out of work and most of us are SL and shorter.

This whole thread has me nearly dying with laughing. However, I'll try to provide some insight because everyone in their gut already knows the truth.

Scientists/dermatologists have studied African hair and have written articles that state that African hair does in fact grow slower and is more fragile than European hair.

So if you're 100% black (i.e. no Cherokee great-grandma) and a 4b/c/z like I am with hair textured like cotton, stop bellyaching about not being WL. It's so not that serious and good weaves look way better than most of the real hair I see on the street on women regardless of race.IMHO

We all should care more about the quality (health) of our hair moreso than the quantity (length). <clutching my Megatek and backing slowly out of the thread> LMAO


I will provide a link to a really nice study that shows that the average rate of hair growth for Africans was (280+/- 50 um/day) vs for Asians (411+/- 53 um/day) vs Caucasians (367 +/- 56 um/day)."African hair was characterized by both low growth and low hair density." Also, "The difference between the Asian and African rates of growth would lead to a difference of 5 cm in hair length in 1 year."

Link: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/118643476/HTMLSTART

Here's one link, but use the tools in it to read similar articles: http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...d=109095&md5=8948eaeba198da64314d79cfed81d0db

The first link is pay-per-view, the second link is that same one that measured African hair after being combed daily?

 

[Honey01]

I feel you as well. Lets see..with my friends only about two people come to mind. Two friends.
Friend 1-BSL (she recently cut to APL but it will grow back)
Friend 2-MBL (she also chops on her hair)

I drive for the Chicago Transit Authority in some of the roughest neighborhoods too. It's rare that I see a girl about SL and if she is, almost EVERYONE is looking at her hair on the bus, trying to see if she is wearing a weave.

I've seen fights on the bus because of this subject. I've had girls look me upside my head as well. (I wear some FIERCE weaves!) LOL

I may get stoned for saying this but, when I drive through the bad neighborhoods, I don't see SL or longer hair often, but when I take my bus through Hyde Park (affluent diverse neighborhood, where Barack Obama lives) those girls have APL or longer and I see a lot of beautiful naturals.

I wonder why THAT is?

I would agree with that. I live in the Chi too and I would say I find much of what you are saying accurate.

Some of it has to do with financial resources. I think sometimes in certain areas, schools the "in hairstlyes" often involve styling techniques and products more damaging to hair. Ex, remember freeze curls? Just today I saw a woman today with a crazy hairstyle with red hair pieces all over the place.

 

[MissNina]

To stick on topic, I've seen tons of "obviously black" girls with really nice SL hair. Some of them have/are grazing APL. Maybe for every....20 heads I will see a BSL. . .but out of those only 50% look thick and healthy.

However, there is one girl at my school. . .who I don't even LIKE. . .in fact, I really can't stand this whore lol. . .that has gorgeeeeeous, thick and so full, a bit past-BSL hair. OMG this girl's hair is so beautiful!!! Everyone used to think her hair was fake bc she's real dark skinned but it's alllll her. It's flawless and jet black. She wears braidouts sometimes and she could pass for natural (she's relaxed). My bff gave me the biggest compliment the other day when he saw my blow out. He looked and said I had "a INSERT HER NAME HERE going on". I rolled my eyes, but I was so happy

Her hair makes her tho bc she is not cute nor nice. I just HAD to say that

 

[Hairsofab]

I never knew any black girls who weren't mixed (ie had a white parent) who had long hair. My cousin, whose father was puertorican (but a black puerto rican) had the longest hair in our family which wasn't even that long, it was like armpit length.

 

[Candycane044]

Why is it so easy to say that our hair grows slower than every other race when we KNOW how we destroy our (already fragile) hair just because we do not like the way it looks as a race, on the whole?.

And why do our locked brothers & sisters have no trouble growing hair to great lengths in a reasonable, average amount of time?

Was that 4-year chart saying 6 in a year is average not made by a white person, using a red-haired white person as example? Why do white people say their hair grows 6 inches per year if it's going faster than that, on average? Or are we saying our hair doesn't average that? I think we can prove this wrong with a simple poll looking at the bell curve. I trust that many of the relaxed/dyed ladies here know the difference between their overall length retained at the end of the month vs. how much new growth they have. Because I sure don't trust that a white scientist will take shrinkage of the new growth and retention into account either. I don't even trust that many Black people would know to take this into account either, that's how foreign our own hair has become to us on the whole.

For some, i think it's just easier to throw up hands and say "their hair just grows faster" because if you believe that, then it kind of gives you a "pass". you can then claim to do everything right. Because a lot of us aren't in love with the thought that our hair can only truly be in its optimal condition *ONLY* when locked.

Asian hair is in its optimal condition when it is growing black & straight down their backs--- the way the vast majority of them wear it. And they wear it like that because they deem it beautiful just the way it is by nature.

I don't see many little White and Asian kids with waist length hair. They're usually somewhere between NL and SL, some with APL. Just from what I see on the smallest girls, roughly, every 3 year old black girl has as much hair as her 3 year-old white/Asian counterpart. But then as the black child gets older, her texture might start to get more coily, more textured. And even if it doesn't, you get introduced to Just For Me kits and pressing combs and weave braids soon enough. And that's when the hair starts breaking off. The Asian child isn't getting any of that. The Asian kid's hair is just being left alone. So by the time these two kids reach 6th grade, the black kid's hair has been constantly broken through the years due to the over-styling and abuse. The Asian kid is probably rocking the same hairstyle she had when she was 3: straight down, the way it grows out of her head. And this continues through high school, adulthood. So yes, there's going to be a major length discrepancy when the black person's hair is going through constant changes, over-styling, and abuse and the Asian person's isn't. And it's all because the Asian person's hair, is deemed beautiful *by them* the way it grows out of their scalps; there's no impetus to alter it or even to style it, really. Just let it hang down. We cannot say the same for ourselves. If we locked at the same rate as you see Asian people wearing it black & straight, I'm positive there would be no noticeable length discrepancy between the races (taking whatever shrinkage into account, still).

COSIGNING!!

 

[RegaLady]

My mother has WL hair and my sister in law has hair beyond BSL. I have known a handful of black girls with hair below BSL and while it is uncommon, it looks okay. My mother always told me having hair like that was alright, nothing to get crazy about. I have seen alot of nice healthy hair regardless of length. I have seen scraggly end hair on 'other' women. So, there is enough reasons as to why people's hair look the way it is.

 

[anon123]

Where did you ever read or hear about Africans having slower growth as a rule? Kinky hair, yes I know it is beneficial in that environment, but to develop slower growth? Never read it.

Could you provide a few links or articles/books from reputable sources that state that people of African decent developed slow growing hair because of the environment?

The reference can be found in this thread:
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=254907&highlight=journal+dermatology

It doesn't speculate on the cause of the differences in growth rates.

 

[MonPetite]

I'm NOT trying to be confrontational, but this thread along with being very enlightening is also worrying to me.

Should I thank my ancestors that I have European and Native American (with pictures to prove it, yes) heritage and THAT's why I grow .5-.75 inches a month WITHOUT Megatek (which gives me 1" or 1"+)?

Because if that's so...then is there some credence to "Good Hair"/"Bad Hair". I mean...really...I'm not being silly, facetious, or trying to start a row. This truly popped into my head and it bothered me terribly.

Most of us on this board want "long hair", we and the rest of the world, for the most part have deemed it "good".

If by genetics most of us grow hair slowly, which is what I'm learning from this thread, and said hair grows very slowly...then that's technically a "bad thing" in terms of attaining what has been deemed good for centuries the globe over.

Thus, those who grow hair quickly have a "good thing" going for them regardless of race, but particularly so if they are of a group that genetically has difficulty attaining this "Good thing" (IE a fast or "average for everyone else but "you guys" growth rate).

If it wasn't "good" LHCF wouldn't exist....

So...maybe there's credence to "Good hair" in terms of growth rate and strength (not the usual texture debate we get into as a people).


I don't want to believe this.

I don't want to think I could ever get in a discussion with another Black woman who would throw this argument (the one above) in my face...and I, with my soft, thick, indestructible, .5"+ a month growing hair has to shut my mouth because I'm an "exception that proves the rule".


There's evidence here, well presented by brilliant ladies that, yes, our hair grows more slowly....

So...does that makes those of us who beat the curve:

freaks, lucky or the "true average" -that is, we show that black women's hair grows just as quickly as everyone elses and the science is off.

Someone reassure me about this.

I'm serious.

I have NEVER given credence to "good hair/bad hair"...but this makes me wonder. As much as I love to "wonder" about things in general....This, is not one of them.


I need a counter argument, STAT!

 

[FAMUDva]

I'm NOT trying to be confrontational, but this thread along with being very enlightening is also worrying to me.

Should I thank my ancestors that I have European and Native American (with pictures to prove it, yes) heritage and THAT's why I grow .5-.75 inches a month WITHOUT Megatek (which gives me 1" or 1"+)?

Because if that's so...then is there some credence to "Good Hair"/"Bad Hair". I mean...really...I'm not being silly, facetious, or trying to start a row. This truly popped into my head and it bothered me terribly.

Most of us on this board want "long hair", we and the rest of the world, for the most part have deemed it "good".

If by genetics most of us grow hair slowly, which is what I'm learning from this thread, and said hair grows very slowly...then that's technically a "bad thing" in terms of attaining what has been deemed good for centuries the globe over.

Thus, those who grow hair quickly have a "good thing" going for them regardless of race, but particularly so if they are of a group that genetically has difficulty attaining this "Good thing" (IE a fast or "average for everyone else but "you guys" growth rate).

If it wasn't "good" LHCF wouldn't exist....

So...maybe there's credence to "Good hair" in terms of growth rate and strength (not the usual texture debate we get into as a people).


I don't want to believe this.

I don't want to think I could ever get in a discussion with another Black woman who would throw this argument (the one above) in my face...and I, with my soft, thick, indestructible, .5"+ a month growing hair has to shut my mouth because I'm an "exception that proves the rule".


There's evidence here, well presented by brilliant ladies that, yes, our hair grows more slowly....

So...does that makes those of us who beat the curve:

freaks, lucky or the "true average" -that is, we show that black women's hair grows just as quickly as everyone elses and the science is off.

Someone reassure me about this.

I'm serious.

I have NEVER given credence to "good hair/bad hair"...but this makes me wonder. As much as I love to "wonder" about things in general....This, is not one of them.


I need a counter argument, STAT!

I just wanted to say that I don't think slower or faster hair growth equals good or bad hair. Growth rate has nothing to do with "good" hair in my opinion. That would mean that I feel that because my hair grows slower that means it's inferior or something. And for My hair it's quite the contrary My hair grows EXTREMELY slow, but I got that Good-Good!

Meaning no matter how slow it grows it's typically healthy and strong and looks GREAT (if I say so myself). LOL!

 

[Faith]

LittleGoldenLamb, it could be many contributing factors...genetics, environment, nutrition, etc. My hair doesn't grow .5"/month. I get .33-.4" so less than "average". My older sister's hair grew about .5" or more a month. My younger sister's hairs is also about .5" so I'm the only odd one out BUT my slower growing, not considered the norm, hair has always gotten longer than either of them.

I like to think of my hair as the tortoise. Just because it takes longer than the hare (no pun intended ) to get there doesn't mean it won't get there and be just as great if not better. I don't know why labels have to be given for people who's hair grows faster or slower or whatever.

If the goal is "long" hair and in the end we all get there...who cares how we got there??
I have a mixed friend who's hair grows fast but it's always splitting no matter what she does. Fast but split. My hair on the other hand if I take care of it grows a little slower but I keep all of it.

So in the end my "long" hair goal is realized but hers is not. So would I be considered having that "good" hair because I got the longer length first?

 

[MonPetite]

LittleGoldenLamb, it could be many contributing factors...genetics, environment, nutrition, etc. My hair doesn't grow .5"/month. I get .33-.4" so less than "average". My older sister's hair grew about .5" or more a month. My younger sister's hairs is also about .5" so I'm the only odd one out BUT my slower growing, not considered the norm, hair has always gotten longer than either of them.

I like to think of my hair as the tortoise. Just because it takes longer than the hare (no pun intended ) to get there doesn't mean it won't get there and be just as great if not better. I don't know why labels have to be given for people who's hair grows faster or slower or whatever.

If the goal is "long" hair and in the end we all get there...who cares how we got there??
I have a mixed friend who's hair grows fast but it's always splitting no matter what she does. Fast but split. My hair on the other hand if I take care of it grows a little slower but I keep all of it.

So in the end my "long" hair goal is realized but hers is not. So would I be considered having that "good" hair because I got the longer length first?

I really like this.

 

[butterfly3582]

Interesting posts

 

[FluffyRed]

How many of black women do you ladies see on a day-to-day with BSL or LONGER hair.

My grandmother had WL 3c waves BSL-WL
Other grandmother had kinky fluffy WL braid
My mom had 4c APL-BSL
About 1 out of every four of my little girlfriend groups had BSL braids, and they were not mixed.

Sister and I got little beady beads. Sister's beads were always in braids. One day, around age 11, she got a perm... she was BSL.

I have never been past SL. (am over 30)

 

[Blackbird77]

I personally know a few Black women with BSL or longer hair. My BFF has always had long, thick hair since we were children and many of her friends also have BSL hair. Another friend 3c/4a is currently BSL although she usually wears her curls.

I also know of a number of White women who never get past APL.

I have a White friend who cannot get past shoulder length.

 

[FAMUDva]

****UPDATE****

Ok, update on my hair (and the Taiwanese lady's hair ).... I just "trimmed" my hair to shoulder length 2 weeks ago because I'm still transitioning.

My Taiwanese friend just CUT her MBL (yeah, it was MBL by the time she cut it Monday) to a new chin length bob.

Y'all best to know I'm tracking BOTH our growth now.It may be unscientific, but for my own mind, I'm making sure I'm not the one going crazy. I'll let y'all know (even if ya don't wanna know )

Hope everyone has a GREAT day!

 

[supermodelsonya]

Yeah FAMUdiva--keep us posted. I found "another" version of LHCF where caucasian women were discussing Megatek because they wanted their hair to grow.

It made me chuckle because they even referenced us. LOL. I thought they had it pretty easy...guess not all of them.

 

[_belle]

here is my little 2 cents. . . we already KNOW that our hair grows, it seems that 'plain ole regular black women' have issue retaining it. . . we know that curly hair rubs against itself causing it to break. . . couple that thinking like 'relaxing your hair makes it grow', 'dirty hair grows faster', 'I have to relax and then flat iron for my hair to be "done"', scissor happy stylists that are more concerned with style than health, just plain poorly concocted 'black' products for 'our hair', 'flat iron until it sizzles', put the curler on the highest setting cause that is the only way for it to style 'our hair'. . . i mean NO WONDER many black women are bald and think that it is something to do with actual genes. . . I mean but women of other races don't "do" their hair everyday. . . when I see a white girl, unless she is going to prom, her hair is down, in a bun/ponytail, or she is rocking a wash & go (you know the the krimpy wet look they love ). so if she is 95% protective styling, it is expected that she is going to grow but more importantly retain her hair. our 'plain old black' chicas of the board can attest to that

 

[FluffyRed]

I have the nappiest hair of all of my friends, but am well known to have the "fast growing" hair.
(Probably because I don't use heat all the time, as most do. I always focused more on health than style. They would call me out on looking crazy sometimes, but let touch up day roll around, I'm the one showing growth)

We know growth is not the problem, because we all know when it's time to get that touchup. I make my 6 inches a year. Someone else may get more, but I'm good with my six.

I am working on retention, and plan to be APL by October. It will be my first time in life being longer than SL. The difference? I am taking better care of my hair because of LHCF.

 

[FAMUDva]

Yeah FAMUdiva--keep us posted. I found "another" version of LHCF where caucasian women were discussing Megatek because they wanted their hair to grow.

It made me chuckle because they even referenced us. LOL. I thought they had it pretty easy...guess not all of them.

Girl, I will keep y'all posted. It's funny because the white women I've seen on most of those long hair sites are usually aready at APL, BSL or beyond and trying to grow their hair to WL, HL, or longer. They shocked me talking about wanting 40+ inches of hair. So I guess long is relative to who you're talking to .

here is my little 2 cents. . . we already KNOW that our hair grows, it seems that 'plain ole regular black women' have issue retaining it. . . we know that curly hair rubs against itself causing it to break. . . couple that thinking like 'relaxing your hair makes it grow', 'dirty hair grows faster', 'I have to relax and then flat iron for my hair to be "done"', scissor happy stylists that are more concerned with style than health, just plain poorly concocted 'black' products for 'our hair', 'flat iron until it sizzles', put the curler on the highest setting cause that is the only way for it to style 'our hair'. . . i mean NO WONDER many black women are bald and think that it is something to do with actual genes. . . I mean but women of other races don't "do" their hair everyday. . . when I see a white girl, unless she is going to prom, her hair is down, in a bun/ponytail, or she is rocking a wash & go (you know the the krimpy wet look they love ). so if she is 95% protective styling, it is expected that she is going to grow but more importantly retain her hair. our 'plain old black' chicas of the board can attest to that

\

Chile, this Taiwanese chick wears her hair down, straight and long, every day to work. Matter of fact there is another Chinese girl who has booty length hair that wears it down everyday. It's thick and an EVEN booty length. LOL! Of course I asked her the secret, and she says she shampoos and conditions with Pantene everyday and blow drys... that's all

Retention or not... I've never met a black woman whose hair went from chin length to MBL in 14 months. I'm not saying it's impossible, I just haven't met her.

 

[FAMUDva]

I have the nappiest hair of all of my friends, but am well known to have the fastest growing hair.

We know growth is not the problem, because we all know when it's time to get that touchup. I make my 6 inches a year. Someone else may get more, but I'm good with my six.

I am working on retention, and plan to be APL by October. It will be my first time in life being longer than SL. The difference? I am taking better care of my hair because of LHCF.

Good for you girlie! I'm happy you will make your goals this year Keep up the good work.

 

[Sweetgirl08]

All 8 of my aunts, my mom, my grandma and a lot of my cousins (I got a huge family) had at least waist length hair as children or prior to chemical intervention. My moms side of the family grew up in Mississippi and they ALL had different textures. I don't see long hair as often anymore among blacks but I do/have seen it

 

[ChocalateDiva]

I know about 5 women/girls with APL hair and 2 with BSL amd none with MBL.

 

[Miss AJ]

A large number of black women don't have BSL or longer hair because there are still a bunch of us out there that swear up and down grease is a moisturizer. The reason you see more white/asian/latina women with long hair than black women with long hair is because:

a. As a whole, black women that relax don't even really understand what they are putting on their hair and abuse the chemicals by using them way too often because the box says every 4-6 weeks for a retouch.

b. We limit ourselves to the "ethnic" hair section because the other stuff is only for white girls (WE know that a lot of the products geared toward us have craptastic ingredients but most black women don't know that)

c. On top of chemical abuse, we are abusing the heat styling tools on the regular and using high heat to get our hair stick straight and swearing up and down the grease is moisturizing and protecting our hair from the heat (and yes, I know some girls back home that still flat iron with grease)


Many black women are either miseducated/misinformed on healthy hair care practices, or are ignorant about hair care altogether and think because their hair looks nice that it is healthy. Think about it, the women on this board who have long hair are either natural or stretch their relaxers and have extremely simply routines with quality products. Just like the white girls who don't dye or chemically alter their hair at or or at least not that often, we too (black women as a whole) can have long, luscious hair if we stop looking for it at the bottom of the Doo Gro and SuperGro jars.

 

[jwhitley6]

Yes, there are differences.

but when it comes to average growth rate, there are none.

That's why I'm puzzled. There IS no African slow growing hair gene. If you take a group of 5000 blacks, 5000 Asians, 5000 Whites and measured their monthly growth rates and took an average... they would all come out to around .5 of an inch per month.

It is the average rate for a human being, regardless of ethnicity.

Yes, there may be some that have really fast growing hair.

I'm sure you know that there are black women who have fast growing hair. Why is it that THEY aren't representative of all of US? Why is it that when we see SOME women of other races with fast growing hair, we assume that all or most non-black women have faster growing hair. As if these white/Asian women with fast growing hair are representing the whole race. - That's the main thing that is getting to me. I don't understand it.

I'm not attacking anyone... no hard feelings on my part.

How do you know this (in red)?? I've never seen data broken down in this way. How do we know that blacks don't bring down the average??...like, maybe the Asian growth average is .75 inches per month and blacks average .25 inches per month.

Now, I'm not saying this is the case, but let's not make up data.

 

[chebaby]

my god sister has always had long hair. right now i think she has mbl hair. she is natural and gets her hair straighterned and always wears buns.

my hair has always been not too far from apl air even when i abused it

my bff hair didnt grow past el until she locked her hair.

 

[NikkiGirl]

One lady I see at the gym all the time is bsl and another at my job is mbl. Two, that is all I could come up with. But I think retention is the key.