Probability & Christians

[delitefulmane]

I have so many questions surrounding this topic I can't begin to write them all.
I guess my issue is about probablity. Do you all believe that God allows certain people to "win" different things (e.g. raffles, the lottery, give aways)? It seems that the people who are really in need -- families so poor they are barely surviving-- are never really the ones who win. Or people like me who never win anything erplexed. There are some people who always win something, even if it is something small.

Also, is it possible that God prohibits certain people from winning because he knows that money (for example) would be a stumbling block for them?

Ladies, I would love to hear your thought on this.

 

[PinkPebbles]

I know my comment will not answer your question directly but I felt led to post my thoughts.

God wants us to put our trust in Him, and Him alone.

I believe that God has given us a gift, talent, or skill to utilize so that we don’t have to depend on the lottery, raffles, and the government to survive. It is up to us to develop, cultivate, and utilize our God given talents, gifts, or skills to prosper and contribute to society.

I like the Parable of the Talents in Matthew 25:15-29

15 To one he gave five bags of gold, to another two bags, and to another one bag,[a] each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16 The man who had received five bags of gold went at once and put his money to work and gained five bags more. 17 So also, the one with two bags of gold gained two more. 18 But the man who had received one bag went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.

19 “After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20 The man who had received five bags of gold brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five bags of gold. See, I have gained five more.’ 21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’

 

[delitefulmane]

PinkPebbles,
This parable came to mind when I thought about this. Thank you for posting it. Is it wrong to assume that people can use the lottery, raffles or other things to galvanize their gift that God has given them?

Where does the lottery and other things people win fit within God's will? Can it be God's will for someone to win?

 

[loolalooh]

delitefulmane:

In many ways, God is far above our understanding, and I believe this is one of those many ways. Scripture only shares what we need to know of Him. What do we know? He is "Ruler" and the "Only God". Thus, it is in His complete power to allow/prohibit certain situations. We also know from Scripture that we live in a fallen world and certain situations fall from that. Lastly, we know that He has an ultimate purpose which includes His glory.

I can infer that He allows certain people to win, but the individual reasons our beyond my understanding.

 

[delitefulmane]

delitefulmane:

In many ways, God is far above our understanding, and I believe this is one of those many ways. Scripture only shares what we need to know of Him. What do we know? He is "Ruler" and the "Only God". Thus, it is in His complete power to allow/prohibit certain situations. We also know from Scripture that we live in a fallen world and certain situations fall from that. Lastly, we know that He has an ultimate purpose which includes His glory.

I can infer that He allows certain people to win, but the individual reasons our beyond my understanding.

loolalooh,
I guess my questions are some of those questions we can only infer Trust me, when I make it up to heaven I'm gonna be a lil' cherubim that alllll the time. God is gonna be like "My child go play in the garden"

 

[PinkPebbles]

@PinkPebbles,
This parable came to mind when I thought about this. Thank you for posting it. Is it wrong to assume that people can use the lottery, raffles or other things to galvanize their gift that God has given them?

Yes, but honestly I only know a handful of people that play the lottery. And their goal is not to galvanize their God given gifts, but live on an island and chill for the rest of their lives...

Where does the lottery and other things people win fit within God's will?

I agree with Loolalooh's comment. She explained it perfectly.

Can it be God's will for someone to win?

Answers are in purple.

 

[loolalooh]

loolalooh,
I guess my questions are some of those questions we can only infer Trust me, when I make it up to heaven I'm gonna be a lil' cherubim that alllll the time. God is gonna be like "My child go play in the garden"

The bolded is too cute.

 

[Crown]

Deut. 10 : 14 To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it.

Job 41 : 11 Who has a claim against me that I must pay? Everything under heaven belongs to me.

Is. 45 : 6 so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting people may know there is none besides me. I am the LORD, and there is no other.
7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Prov. 16 : 33 The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD.

Two sisters were talking, a Catholic (C) and a SDA :

C : I remember when I was a young mother. It was very difficult with our 4 children, but I always trusted the Lord. When we could not bring food on the table, I always cried to God for help and He allowed me to win the lottery, not that much, just enough to help my husband and provide for the children.
When our condition was improved, I no longer played lottery.

SDA : Lottery is evil. God would never bless me this way because I don’t play lottery!


I think the two were right about their beliefs, but the SDA tried to convince the Catholic that she was wrong.

We need to clarify :
The motives : need help or to be rich?
The way : trusting God or your flesh?
The consequences : glorifying God or stumbling block for others, even for you?

 

[sidney]

I was always taught that playing the lottery was sinful, albeit with no scriptual basis. I understand the points listed by everyone and they seem valid. But is playing the lottery demonstrating good stewardship? Especially in the context of the parable of the talents discussed above?

 

[delitefulmane]

Deut. 10 : 14 To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it.

Job 41 : 11 Who has a claim against me that I must pay? Everything under heaven belongs to me.

Is. 45 : 6 so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting people may know there is none besides me. I am the LORD, and there is no other.
7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Prov. 16 : 33 The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD.

Two sisters were talking, a Catholic (C) and a SDA :

C : I remember when I was a young mother. It was very difficult with our 4 children, but I always trusted the Lord. When we could not bring food on the table, I always cried to God for help and He allowed me to win the lottery, not that much, just enough to help my husband and provide for the children.
When our condition was improved, I no longer played lottery.

SDA : Lottery is evil. God would never bless me this way because I don’t play lottery!


I think the two were right about their beliefs, but the SDA tried to convince the Catholic that she was wrong.

We need to clarify :
The motives : need help or to be rich?
The way : trusting God or your flesh?
The consequences : glorifying God or stumbling block for others, even for you?

Thank you Crown,
But what is a SDA?

I was always taught that playing the lottery was sinful, albeit with no scriptual basis. I understand the points listed by everyone and they seem valid. But is playing the lottery demonstrating good stewardship? Especially in the context of the parable of the talents discussed above?

sidney,
Thank you. I have always been taught this too! Im not sure if your questions were rhetorical but no, I do not think that playing the lottery is demonstration good stewardship. As Christians, people should be drawn to Christ by our faith, and character.

I guess I just got to wondering because of something my co-worker did. She "claims" (and I say this because I am always trying to discern some of her actions) that God, first, gave her a dream that she was going to get fired and that He was moving her in a higher position. Later, when the lottery came about, she says this dream meant that she was going to win the mega millions.

I am just wondering if God allows certain people to win certain things to test their faithfulness sort of like the story of Job. I guess I am just thinking out loud.

I also the story here about the man who won the lottery and just about lost everything else. I think his last name was Whittaker. In the end, I think he was worst off AFTER "winning" the lottery.

 

[Crown]

Thank you @Crown,
But what is a SDA?

@delitefulmane
Seventh Day Adventist

 

[Crown]

I was always taught that playing the lottery was sinful, albeit with no scriptual basis. I understand the points listed by everyone and they seem valid. But is playing the lottery demonstrating good stewardship? Especially in the context of the parable of the talents discussed above?

Me either. The scriptures:
1 Tim. 6: 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
And
Heb. 13: 5 Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.”

Like I said in my post (8), for me the question is: why do you play lottery?
I don’t have a problem with the Catholic lady: she believes God had helped her at a specific moment in her life through lottery and she gives glory to Him.

The Bible says: you receive according to your faith!
We are all at different steps in our journey.

Some think all lotteries are evil. I don’t think so.
The scriptures say: the love of money is a root of evil.

I have no problem buying a ticket to help a community, a class…: it is also lottery. But, I don’t expect to win (I don't win, but I help).

Again, the motives: why are you doing this?
If a Christian has a good job and can provide, why would he play lottery just for money (gambling)?

 

[Crown]

I have so many questions surrounding this topic I can't begin to write them all.
I guess my issue is about probablity. Do you all believe that God allows certain people to "win" different things (e.g. raffles, the lottery, give aways)? ...
Ladies, I would love to hear your thought on this.

Definition of lottery:

1. A means of raising money by selling numbered tickets and giving prizes to the holders of numbers drawn at random (raffles).
2. A process or thing whose success or outcome is governed by chance: "the lottery of life".

Definition of gambling:

1. Play games of chance for money; bet.
2. Bet (a sum of money) in such a way.

Definition of probability:
Probability is a branch of mathematics that deals with calculating the likelihood of a given event's occurrence, which is expressed as a number between 1 and 0. An event with a probability of 1 can be considered a certainty: for example, the probability of a coin toss resulting in either "heads" or "tails" is 1, because there are no other options, assuming the coin lands flat. An event with a probability of .5 can be considered to have equal odds of occurring or not occurring: for example, the probability of a coin toss resulting in "heads" is .5, because the toss is equally as likely to result in "tails." An event with a probability of 0 can be considered an impossibility: for example, the probability that the coin will land (flat) without either side facing up is 0, because either "heads" or "tails" must be facing up. A little paradoxical, probability theory applies precise calculations to quantify uncertain measures of random events.

Probability theory had its start in the 17th century, when two French mathematicians, Blaise Pascal and Pierre de Fermat carried on a correspondence discussing mathematical problems dealing with games of chance. Contemporary applications of probability theory run the gamut of human inquiry, and include aspects of computer programming, astrophysics, music, weather prediction, and medicine.
http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci549076,00.html

People tend to confound lottery and gambling.

Lot-tery : casting lots is a part of mankind story.
Jos. 18:8; 1 Chr. 24:31; 1 Chr. 25:8; 1 Chr. 26:13; Jonah 1:7;
Mat. 27:35; Jn 19:24; (Ps. 22:18, the clothes of the Messiah)
Acts 1:26 (Matthias to replace Judas)

God is Sovereign: nothing can happen if He does not permit.

Like Medecine is God, The healer, using humans to heal,
Probability is used in various fields in our societies, and for me, it is God's hand.
Your(general) motives and what you do is your(general) decision.

 

[delitefulmane]

Definition of lottery:

1. A means of raising money by selling numbered tickets and giving prizes to the holders of numbers drawn at random (raffles).
2. A process or thing whose success or outcome is governed by chance: "the lottery of life".

Definition of gambling:

1. Play games of chance for money; bet.
2. Bet (a sum of money) in such a way.

Definition of probability:
Probability is a branch of mathematics that deals with calculating the likelihood of a given event's occurrence, which is expressed as a number between 1 and 0. An event with a probability of 1 can be considered a certainty: for example, the probability of a coin toss resulting in either "heads" or "tails" is 1, because there are no other options, assuming the coin lands flat. An event with a probability of .5 can be considered to have equal odds of occurring or not occurring: for example, the probability of a coin toss resulting in "heads" is .5, because the toss is equally as likely to result in "tails." An event with a probability of 0 can be considered an impossibility: for example, the probability that the coin will land (flat) without either side facing up is 0, because either "heads" or "tails" must be facing up. A little paradoxical, probability theory applies precise calculations to quantify uncertain measures of random events.

Probability theory had its start in the 17th century, when two French mathematicians, Blaise Pascal and Pierre de Fermat carried on a correspondence discussing mathematical problems dealing with games of chance. Contemporary applications of probability theory run the gamut of human inquiry, and include aspects of computer programming, astrophysics, music, weather prediction, and medicine.
http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci549076,00.html

People tend to confound lottery and gambling.

Lot-tery : casting lots is a part of mankind story.
Jos. 18:8; 1 Chr. 24:31; 1 Chr. 25:8; 1 Chr. 26:13; Jonah 1:7;
Mat. 27:35; Jn 19:24; (Ps. 22:18, the clothes of the Messiah)
Acts 1:26 (Matthias to replace Judas)

God is Sovereign: nothing can happen if He does not permit.

Like Medecine is God, The healer, using humans to heal,
Probability is used in various fields in our societies, and for me, it is God's hand.
Your(general) motives and what you do is your(general) decision.

Crown,
Im not sure I understood your post.

 

[blazingthru]

I believe those things are a form of gambling and so I do not participate. I dream like everyone else of things being better but not by gambling.

God desires for us to trust in him and he will supply all our needs. Probably not the way we see it but he has the better plan then we do. I agree with some of the above post.

I believe that when you need more from God then you do more for others.

 

[Crown]

I have so many questions surrounding this topic I can't begin to write them all.
I guess my issue is about probablity.
...
Ladies, I would love to hear your thought on this.

@Crown,
Im not sure I understood your post.

delitefulmane you wanted to talk about probability, right?

Some sciences are based or imply probability.
Casting lot is based on probability and it is in the Bible.
God had commanded to Joshuah to cast lots (probability, I don't believe in hazard or coincidence, I believe in the sovereignty of God, so God's hand) to divide Israel.

I know some Christians think that lottery / probability are evil.
Just because they polluted it (lot-tery) does not mean it's just wrong, even with the money.

Gambling is evil!

I said I have no problem to buy a ticket (raffle is also lottery : raising money, see point 1 of definition of lottery, my last post) to help others : foundation, organization, class, the poor...

I don't understand why some think they have to put all things in the same bag.
God gave us discernment.
Someone can choose to act a way (no probability at all, no probability involving money), and someone else can choose to act in another way (raffle to help raising money for a cause), the both without sinning (giving a prize for raising money for a cause is just an incentive, some people would not help without the hope to win this prize. But I would not restrain myself to help because some are dreaming for the prize).

Hope, I have said it better now

 

[delitefulmane]

delitefulmane you wanted to talk about probability, right?

Some sciences are based or imply probability.
Casting lot is based on probability and it is in the Bible.
God had commanded to Joshuah to cast lots (probability, I don't believe in hazard or coincidence, I believe in the sovereignty of God, so God's hand) to divide Israel.

I know some Christians think that lottery / probability are evil.
Just because they polluted it (lot-tery) does not mean it's just wrong, even with the money.

Gambling is evil!

I said I have no problem to buy a ticket (raffle is also lottery : raising money, see point 1 of definition of lottery, my last post) to help others : foundation, organization, class, the poor...

I don't understand why some think they have to put all things in the same bag.
God gave us discernment.
Someone can choose to act a way (no probability at all, no probability involving money), and someone else can choose to act in another way (raffle to help raising money for a cause), the both without sinning (giving a prize for raising money for a cause is just an incentive, some people would not help without the hope to win this prize. But I would not restrain myself to help because some are dreaming for the prize).

Hope, I have said it better now

Crown,
Oh Ok. I see now. Yes, this is much clearer. Upthread I was
You're right. Life is about balance. I believe as Christians we have to find a way to function in this world and still follow God's principles.

thank you

 

[Laela]

That is real profound, reminding us that the Romans did cast lots (gambled) for Jesus' clothing at His cruxifiction.

ITA God is Sovereign and nothing happens if He doesn't permit it... scientific probability, though, is man trying to put God in a box.

Lot-tery : casting lots is a part of mankind story.
Jos. 18:8; 1 Chr. 24:31; 1 Chr. 25:8; 1 Chr. 26:13; Jonah 1:7;
Mat. 27:35; Jn 19:24; (Ps. 22:18, the clothes of the Messiah)
Acts 1:26 (Matthias to replace Judas)

God is Sovereign: nothing can happen if He does not permit.

Like Medecine is God, The healer, using humans to heal,
Probability is used in various fields in our societies, and for me, it is God's hand.
Your(general) motives and what you do is your(general) decision.

 

[Laela]

Bible says a man who doesn't work doesn't eat.. lol

I don't believe playing the lottery qualifies as good stewardship, as it's unearned income (other people's money) and it replaces God as a source. Played all the time, it could even qualify as an idol.

I was always taught that playing the lottery was sinful, albeit with no scriptual basis. I understand the points listed by everyone and they seem valid. But is playing the lottery demonstrating good stewardship? Especially in the context of the parable of the talents discussed above?