Prenuptial Agreements: Yay or Nay for Christian Marriages

[cocoberry10]

That's a big difference to me because they obviously got married young and did all things together. Ie: retirement planning, accumulating assets and wealth.

At a certain age after preparing, accumulating, achieving financial goals individually for your future and children one would be a simpleton to simply throw that to the wind all because "I's married now".

Also I doubt if fear has anything to do with maintaining and securing what you worked so hard to accomplish for your family's future prior to marriage. I would definitely expect a man to have his ducks in order for his future and children as well prior to marriage.

You are right, they did marry young, and that does make a difference. Even I won't be as young as my parents, and I'm still in my early/mid-20's (they were 22 and had dated for 4 years prior). As much as people chastise her for it, I can see why Oprah did not marry Stedman. Some of what we are talking about here may have something to do with it. Someone of her status would definitely have to deal with that, whether or not she decided to get one or not.

I am not opposed to pre-nups for those that want them, and I definitely don't begrudge those that work hard. I'm sure Terry McMillan is extremely glad she had a prenup. It's saving her a big headache. But for me, I would like to believe that even if I marry a monster, the bigger one, God will restore me. This doesn't mean that I won't go through hell and a handbasket here on earth. Sooooooooooooo many people (women and men do). But I've seen far more women get screwed over from not having a proper will/improper probate/estate planning, than over a prenup, since most people don't have the kind of wealth that a prenup will really be sooooooo important.

But this is why I go back to my original statements

For those of you who do plan on pre-nups, I have no personal judgment against you for them, but as for me...
I don't personally believe in pre-nups, but refer to my post #52 as some of the reasons why some may believe in them (I'm giving the legal perspective as a future lawyer and all ).

BUT...Why I as a future lawyer, don't personally believe in a pre-nup is this:

I know that all I have, God has given me (and what I don't have he will give me).

My parents have been married for almost 35 years. My dad is also a lawyer, but he doesn't actively practice. He's got a business and is also one of the highest level corporate execs at one of the largest corps in the world. HOWEVER, I have seen my parents love and honor each other. NO PRENUP! Does that mean their marriage has been perfect. Noooooooo. But they have God, and we all have each other, and God uses us to build one another up, not destroy each other. I know that neither of my parents is out to get the other, but if that ever changed, I know that God does restore.

My marriage may not be as fortunate as my parents (if I ever get married, which only God knows this ). I may end up Divorced :fallenang . Again, ONLY GOD KNOWS THIS.

But, in my limited knowledge of my life and future...I DO KNOW THIS. What God has given me once, HE CAN GIVE ME AGAIN. It would be extremely hard and difficult to lose all the things I've worked hard for (and I've worked hard, y'all). BUT, IT WOULD BE THE HARDEST FOR ME TO TO EXPLAIN WHY I COULDN'T TRUST GOD. Truthfully, trusting God means not knowing the future, and risking that things will not be easy, smooth or okay. That's the risk you take. But like I said in post #52, a pre-nup is a contract. And as a future lawyer, we learn in contracts class, that CONTRACTS ARE VOIDABLE. But I have something stronger with God. I HAVE AN UNBREAKABLE COVENANT! So, even those of you that get pre-nups, know that courts strike them down and reinterpret them all the time (rare, but yes, it can happen, especially if it seems really unfair ). See, the world's ways aren't so fair .

For me, not getting a prenup has NOTHING to do with my future husband. Just like my choice not to engage in sex right now is not really about my husband. It's about my trust in my Heavenly Father.

And a great example of a wonderful man who trusted God AND LOST EVERYTHING is JOB. Job was "blameless" in all that he did, but God still allowed the devil to have his way with Job. But in the end, I know that God is a restorer. So there's nothing that can be taken away from me, that I can't get back...twofold, threefold, sevenfold.

Trust me, I have my days where I worry about things like this, and I have doubts. But I know that no matter who (or what ) kind of man I marry, even as cautious and good minded as I think I am, God will always be there for me.

As someone said earlier, God gives us free will. And that means you have every right to do the things that you feel will protect you. But as for me, I can't know my future, and I don't know the awful turmoil that WILL come into my life (b/c living in a fallen world means, dealing with the world's ways). But no matter what, there is a God, and I know He is amazing!

 

[Crackers Phinn]

I'm sorry, but this is funny... A pre-nup for a date!!! I would love to see how this turns out in Judge Judy's or Judge Mathis' court room.

Yeah, I was getting my joke on.

But Creflo seems like the type .

 

[kbragg]

Also I doubt if fear has anything to do with maintaining and securing what you worked so hard to accomplish for your family's future prior to marriage.

If it wasn't for God's grace, we wouldn't have jack, so if He can get it for us once He can get it for us again. Now of course if you're leaning on your own understanding that's a different story...

 

[Southernbella.]

If it wasn't for God's grace, we wouldn't have jack, so if He can get it for us once He can get it for us again. Now of course if you're leaning on your own understanding that's a different story...

Geez...I wasn't going to say anything, but I don't understand why when Christians disagree with you, it's because they don't have as much faith as you (general), or becuse they're not as spiritual, or leaning on their own understanding, or whatever.

Not everyone interprets the Word in the same way. Truth be told, we're ALL leaning on our own understanding of what the Bible says. We won't always agree, but can we stop with the condescension? This is not directed at you only, but I see it all the time on this board, in all different types of threads.

 

[StrawberryQueen]

Geez...I wasn't going to say anything, but I don't understand why when Christians disagree with you, it's because they don't have as much faith as you (general), or becuse they're not as spiritual, or leaning on their own understanding, or whatever.

Not everyone interprets the Word in the same way. Truth be told, we're ALL leaning on our own understanding of what the Bible says. We won't always agree, but can we stop with the condescension? This is not directed at you only, but I see it all the time on this board, in all different types of threads.

I agree Lauren. Kinda sad, but oh well.

Divine and Lauren have given me such good info to think about on both sides, I've lost my opinion! I don't know what to think.

But the two of you are both divinely inspired! Thanks for all of your posts.

 

[Divine Inspiration]

I agree Lauren. Kinda sad, but oh well.

Divine and Lauren have given me such good info to think about on both sides, I've lost my opinion! I don't know what to think.

But the two of you are both divinely inspired! Thanks for all of your posts.

Aww gee. Didn't mean to contribute to the confusion, but you're welcome. Thank you for your kind words.

I've enjoyed this exchange. These kinds of conversations are healthy for Christians, IMO.

And, I hope no one has found my words condescending or self-righteous because that certainly isn't my intent. My posts come from a personal place. My motto is: I have my way, you have your way...as for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.

 

[Shimmie]

Very True. Sometimes material gain is a mixed blessing.

Very mixed. When I reflect on the blessings, I want to 'reflect' upon the one with whom I shared the 'Commonalities'...the one of real value; the one I love.

Not value the things ... material...which would never be able replace the man who allowed me to stand beside him, live in his heart, spoil me with his desire to do better; allowing me know his heart; see his tears; bringing him morning smiles; homemade ice tea with honey/lemon; a chef salad...that he trusted me to make; supporting his Destiny and Dreams...Believing in him, even when others don't or when he doubts himself...trusting me to pray for him; these Blessings and more and Him...Priceless.

Can these be rendered in a 'pre-nup'...?

 

[cocoberry10]

Geez...I wasn't going to say anything, but I don't understand why when Christians disagree with you, it's because they don't have as much faith as you (general), or becuse they're not as spiritual, or leaning on their own understanding, or whatever.

Not everyone interprets the Word in the same way. Truth be told, we're ALL leaning on our own understanding of what the Bible says. We won't always agree, but can we stop with the condescension? This is not directed at you only, but I see it all the time on this board, in all different types of threads.

I understand what you are saying, and I hope that nothing I've said has offended you. I have learned a lot from your posts. I think that we all have strong opinions, and sometimes it can come across offensively or harshly to each other, but I don't think everyone (I know maybe with some) means it to sound judgmental. As I said in my previous posts, I don't personally believe in them, but I do see their value, and I do understand why some would want them (like insurance, etc). I don't believe one's salvation will be totally dependent on it.

 

[Shimmie]

Yeah, I was getting my joke on.

But Creflo seems like the type .

You are too funny.

But "JColiy", Creflo and Taffy (his wife) seem to be pretty happy. Plus they didn't have a 'nup' to 'pre' when they were married. Not until they hooked up with Kenneth Copeland and then God just blessed them.

It took Creflo awhile to gain his 'own' identity, ministry-wise. It used to 'bother' me in the beginning because he was too much like Copeland and not his own 'man' so it seemed to me. Now, he's a lot more stronger and more of who he is and not a clone of someone else.

Only if you care to, share why you see him as the type to bring a pre-nup on a date. I think the 'date' nup is too funny for anyone. You have a great sense of humor.

BTW: Do you have a crochet doll for this date? I'm sure a pre-nup will truly be in order then. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[Southernbella.]

I understand what you are saying, and I hope that nothing I've said has offended you. I have learned a lot from your posts. I think that we all have strong opinions, and sometimes it can come across offensively or harshly to each other, but I don't think everyone (I know maybe with some) means it to sound judgmental. As I said in my previous posts, I don't personally believe in them, but I do see their value, and I do understand why some would want them (like insurance, etc). I don't believe one's salvation will be totally dependent on it.

It was nothing you said at all! For the most part, I think everyone has been civil. I shouldn't have even said anything, really. I just wish we could have discussions without the "if you REALLY knew what the Word says like I do" type attitude. I'm not blameless; I'm sure I've done it too. I promise to choose my words more carefully from now on.

 

[Shimmie]

Geez...I wasn't going to say anything, but I don't understand why when Christians disagree with you, it's because they don't have as much faith as you (general), or becuse they're not as spiritual, or leaning on their own understanding, or whatever.

Not everyone interprets the Word in the same way. Truth be told, we're ALL leaning on our own understanding of what the Bible says. We won't always agree, but can we stop with the condescension? This is not directed at you only, but I see it all the time on this board, in all different types of threads.

Lauren, I apologize as well. I 'know' how strongly I can land on a subject. But believe me it is the subject and not an individual. And actually, I'm addressing the devil, for that's what I know to do...stop him in his tracks.

I've fought the good fight of faith for so long, that's it's my first and final reaction. It works wonders in Intercessory Prayer...I don't let up. Yet I do apologize when I've hurt someone. It's never my intention.

 

[kbragg]

I'm gonna take a WILD guess and guess the negative was directed towards me I by no means mean to offend, however I am sincerely offended when fellow sisters look at the Covenant relationship a man and woman proclaim before and with God as "negotiable." I'm not talking about people in the world, but men and women of God. IMO if it's that much of an issue it would be better to not get married than say to God, "I make this covenant with you...BUT....just in case, I gotta cover myself..you know how it is Lord..." I mean, GOD's own Words, NOT Kassandra's:

Malachi 2:16 AMP For the Lord, the God of Israel, says: I hate divorce and marital separation and him who covers his garment [his wife] with violence. Therefore keep a watch upon your spirit [that it may be controlled by My Spirit], that you deal not treacherously and faithlessly [with your marriage mate].

So if God HATES divorce, why even enter into a marriage with a prenup which as another poster said is not only speaking it into existance, but concidering it. It should not even enter the mind of the Christian.

Sorry if anyone finds this offensive. It was not meant to offend anyone but the devil and the lie he's trying to justify.

 

[PaperClip]

Ok... this has been quite a "spirited" conversation.... Concerning my position on the matter, I'm still not sure. I know what I have been taught about God's outlook on the marriage relationship.... but I also know what I have lived, experienced, and observed.

For those that speak so passionately against prenups, it appears that common themes are that there a marriage took place before the age of 30 (whether it remained or not), with no substantive assets (e.g., home paid off, large inheritance, signficant savings, etc.), no dependents, etc.

For those who spoke so passionately in favor of prenups, it appears that common themes are that a marriage did not take place before the age of 30 or the marriage did not remain, there might have been a certain amount of assets involved, and there is some sense of, for lack of a better word, apprehension concerning personal survival.

For those in the middle of the debate, that is what it is!

As I said in my initial post, if I had gotten married at 25 or even 30, this question would not be relevant. But I am past 30 and not yet married. In a way, it almost feels like a punishment to not be married because as much as I can do, there's so much that I cannot do because of the coupling, racial, and gender biases of our society. Maybe I brought up this question out of my ongoing angst about why I am not married yet. And what am I supposed to do with my life....

Wow... that was painfully honest and embarrassing.

I appreciate you all's contributions to this thread.

 

[live2bgr8]

Ok... this has been quite a "spirited" conversation.... Concerning my position on the matter, I'm still not sure. I know what I have been taught about God's outlook on the marriage relationship.... but I also know what I have lived, experienced, and observed.

For those that speak so passionately against prenups, it appears that common themes are that there a marriage took place before the age of 30 (whether it remained or not), with no substantive assets (e.g., home paid off, large inheritance, signficant savings, etc.), no dependents, etc.

For those who spoke so passionately in favor of prenups, it appears that common themes are that a marriage did not take place before the age of 30 or the marriage did not remain, there might have been a certain amount of assets involved, and there is some sense of, for lack of a better word, apprehension concerning personal survival.

For those in the middle of the debate, that is what it is!

As I said in my initial post, if I had gotten married at 25 or even 30, this question would not be relevant. But I am past 30 and not yet married. In a way, it almost feels like a punishment to not be married because as much as I can do, there's so much that I cannot do because of the coupling, racial, and gender biases of our society. Maybe I brought up this question out of my ongoing angst about why I am not married yet. And what am I supposed to do with my life....

Wow... that was painfully honest and embarrassing.

I appreciate you all's contributions to this thread.

Please don't be embarrased. There's no reason to be. We love you, and most importantly God loves you. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and your heart with us.

ETA: God makes all things beautiful in His time. Your time is comming! I feel it.

 

[Shimmie]

Ok... this has been quite a "spirited" conversation.... Concerning my position on the matter, I'm still not sure. I know what I have been taught about God's outlook on the marriage relationship.... but I also know what I have lived, experienced, and observed.

For those that speak so passionately against prenups, it appears that common themes are that there a marriage took place before the age of 30 (whether it remained or not), with no substantive assets (e.g., home paid off, large inheritance, signficant savings, etc.), no dependents, etc.

For those who spoke so passionately in favor of prenups, it appears that common themes are that a marriage did not take place before the age of 30 or the marriage did not remain, there might have been a certain amount of assets involved, and there is some sense of, for lack of a better word, apprehension concerning personal survival.

For those in the middle of the debate, that is what it is!

As I said in my initial post, if I had gotten married at 25 or even 30, this question would not be relevant. But I am past 30 and not yet married. In a way, it almost feels like a punishment to not be married because as much as I can do, there's so much that I cannot do because of the coupling, racial, and gender biases of our society. Maybe I brought up this question out of my ongoing angst about why I am not married yet. And what am I supposed to do with my life....

Wow... that was painfully honest and embarrassing.

I appreciate you all's contributions to this thread.

Girl, I already have my dress for your wedding... and I ain't never bought a wedding dress in vain... NEVER!

 

[cocoberry10]

Ok... this has been quite a "spirited" conversation.... Concerning my position on the matter, I'm still not sure. I know what I have been taught about God's outlook on the marriage relationship.... but I also know what I have lived, experienced, and observed.

For those that speak so passionately against prenups, it appears that common themes are that there a marriage took place before the age of 30 (whether it remained or not), with no substantive assets (e.g., home paid off, large inheritance, signficant savings, etc.), no dependents, etc.

For those who spoke so passionately in favor of prenups, it appears that common themes are that a marriage did not take place before the age of 30 or the marriage did not remain, there might have been a certain amount of assets involved, and there is some sense of, for lack of a better word, apprehension concerning personal survival.

For those in the middle of the debate, that is what it is!

As I said in my initial post, if I had gotten married at 25 or even 30, this question would not be relevant. But I am past 30 and not yet married. In a way, it almost feels like a punishment to not be married because as much as I can do, there's so much that I cannot do because of the coupling, racial, and gender biases of our society. Maybe I brought up this question out of my ongoing angst about why I am not married yet. And what am I supposed to do with my life....

Wow... that was painfully honest and embarrassing.

I appreciate you all's contributions to this thread.

Don't be embarassed at all. I look around at all the Black women in this country who aren't married, and sometimes I wonder why myself. I don't want to feel like Black women have become the "joke" of society, but when I see my beautiful, accomplished, kind-hearted sisters who really want to be married, but aren't it really does break my heart.

It's like when I went to law school. I was during that "post-9/11" era where there were sooooooooooooo many people who had no real desire to go to law school, but b/c of the shaky economy, they just took the LSAT, got in, and went. On the other hand, I had several friends who had dreamed of going to law school since a young age, and didn't get in and were heartbroken. It seems that way with marriage in our community. There are so many women who really want to be married, and who would make great wives, but aren't. And there are women who never even blink an eyelash, and "Mr. Right" just seems to fall in their lap. Now, I know this is not the norm, so married ladies, don't take what I said as a personal attack, it's not. Believe it or not, women today are struggling in this area, regardless of race, age, or social class, b/c most of my single friends (not all are Black) are having a hard time getting the "right" one. No matter how beautiful, successful, kind, etc. So, know that you aren't alone. I just feel like Black women's hardships are on display in the media more than others, and I'm beginning to think that the media is further contributing to the hardships between Black males and females.

Totally off topic, but I just had to say it!

 

[PaperClip]

Girl, I already have my dress for your wedding... and I ain't never bought a wedding dress in vain... NEVER!

Thank you....

 

[Shimmie]

Thank you....

You're worth it, precious sister...very worth it.

And...I promise not to Belly Dance - in front of your Pastors and Church members... Okay?

 

[PaperClip]

You're worth it, precious sister...very worth it.

And...I promise not to Belly Dance - in front of your Pastors and Church members... Okay?

hold it for the reception!

 

[Shimmie]

hold it for the reception!

This means you have to 'get up and Belly Dance for your husband' in front of Errrr body...

But that's alll aight, your husband will be grinning for years...past your 40 Anniversary.

Hugs angel...just getting you ready, that's all. Start making your plans.

"He that will come shall come and will not tarry..." (the book of Malachi don't lie).

 

[Bublnbrnsuga]

HUH!????! Oh Dear! Oh Dear, Dear, Dear!

Sweetheart, since when is God limited? Let me answer before the devil and his marbles begin to roll backwards....

Never! God is and has and always will be ALL knowing. It is we as humans who are limited...not God.

Oohhhh, precious one... (((( hugs ))))

Yeah, I was like, 'why am I serving a God that doesn't know the future??? What's the point?' I knew someone would say something about that statement sooner or later

 

[Shimmie]

Yeah, I was like, 'why am I serving a God that doesn't know the future??? What's the point?'

I knew someone would say something about that statement sooner or later

Ummmmm, you talking about me? Huh? You know me all too well, my beautiful sister...all too well.

Love you.... ((( hugs )))

 

[barnardbaby027]

I'm much younger (I think) than most people here, but I just wanted to put my cents in:

Proverbs tells us that DEATH and LIFE are in the power of the tounge. We have what we say we have. If you and your husband as believers are claiming nothing missing and nothing broken in your marriage, then that is what you will have. If you are claiming the "What If's"...then that is what you will have - uncertainty. This is not just for marriage - this pertains to each and every aspect of our lives. I think a prenup speaks the wrong things into a marriage - and since death and life are in the power of the tounge, it is no wonder that people need to protect their assets these days!

I believe when you get married, you operate as one. What was yours is no longer yours, and what was his is no longer his. When you know your marriage is sanctioned by God - when we are following HIS will and not ours, divorce is something we don't have to worry about - and I mean that wholeheartedly. As believers, we have a right to nothing missing and nothing broken in our lives - EVER.

I think we have to remember that as Christians we don't operate the way the world operates. People who operate in the world do not have the privelage of knowing God's will for their lives, of knowing that God is directing EVERY SINGLE STEP, of knowing who they should marry, of speaking things that are not as though they were and getting results, and of having the promise of nothing lacking in their marriages - or in their lives, for that matter. As Christians, we have those privelages.

A prenup protects your money, but not your heart. Why not have God as insurance that everything gets protected in every aspect of your life all of the time?

 

[Shimmie]

I'm much younger (I think) than most people here, but I just wanted to put my cents in:

Proverbs tells us that DEATH and LIFE are in the power of the tounge. We have what we say we have. If you and your husband as believers are claiming nothing missing and nothing broken in your marriage, then that is what you will have. If you are claiming the "What If's"...then that is what you will have - uncertainty. This is not just for marriage - this pertains to each and every aspect of our lives. I think a prenup speaks the wrong things into a marriage - and since death and life are in the power of the tounge, it is no wonder that people need to protect their assets these days!

I believe when you get married, you operate as one. What was yours is no longer yours, and what was his is no longer his.

When you know your marriage is sanctioned by God - when we are following HIS will and not ours, divorce is something we don't have to worry about - and I mean that wholeheartedly. As believers, we have a right to nothing missing and nothing broken in our lives - EVER.

I think we have to remember that as Christians we don't operate the way the world operates. People who operate in the world do not have the privelage of knowing God's will for their lives, of knowing that God is directing EVERY SINGLE STEP, of knowing who they should marry, of speaking things that are not as though they were and getting results, and of having the promise of nothing lacking in their marriages - or in their lives, for that matter. As Christians, we have those privelages.

A prenup protects your money, but not your heart. Why not have God as insurance that everything gets protected in every aspect of your life all of the time?

You may 'think' you're the younger and that you 'may' well be, but you sure spoke the wisdom and the truth and the light that put the elders to shame. The Prophetess has spoken!

Well said and the truth at that. I love it.

"As believers, we have a right to nothing missing and nothing broken in our lives - EVER.

we have to remember that as Christians we don't operate the way the world operates. People who operate in the world do not have the privelage of knowing God's will for their lives, of knowing that God is directing EVERY SINGLE STEP, of knowing who they should marry, of speaking things that are not as though they were and getting results, and of having the promise of nothing lacking in their marriages - or in their lives, for that matter. As Christians, we have those privelages.

Why not have God as insurance that everything gets protected in every aspect of your life all of the time.

Lord, Lord, Lord.....Somebody just Praise Him! Bless His Holy Name and Just Praise Him....Glory, glory, glory, glory....Bless His Holy Name. Oh Bless His Name...Jesus...Bless His Holy Name....

Lord your word has been spoken. "Thy word O' God is forever settled in Heaven." (Psalm 119).

Amen and Amen...