Prenuptial Agreements: Yay or Nay for Christian Marriages

[Meli]

I say yes to a prenup. Suppose your mate wants to open up a business, makes a bad business judgment...signs a personal guaranty, what do you you have to protect yourself. Signing a prenup can guard against a creditor taking your house. Saying yes to a prenup is not saying no to whom God chose for you, its just saying no to the possibility of bad decisions that yield bad results. No one is perfect and people make bad decisions sometimes. Since this is true, why can't a person protect themselves by signing a prenup. In addition, without a prenup, assets could end up in the hands of your spouse's children from a previous marriage instead of your own kids in the event you die.

 

[BlkManWithSomeSense]

I'm sure the high rates of divorce and absence of morals today have greatly affected the decision for people to get a pre nup. Fear is very influential. I wont argue that it makes good business sense to get one but I cant do it. I accept the consequences of my actions and if the marriage fails then I accept the fallout. I think it's ironic that I would block a divorcing spouse appropriate access to my assets but I once entrusted her with my life and MY assets on a daily basis.

I could not give my all to the marriage if I knew I had a 'back door'. Taking such precautions does affect your mentality towards the relationship. Marriage requires great sacrifice and it is one of life's biggest 'risks'. However that risk begets the greatest rewards if the marriage works out. I guess I'm just too compassionate for this 'take no prisoners and cover your tail' world .

You know the old saying, 'Don't Gamble what you're not willing to lose'. If you worry more about your assets than your marriage (or it's failure), then it's doomed from the start because you are already anticipating it's failure. Plant the seed. Reap what you sow.....JMO of course.

 

[Shimmie]

Posters are saying God would not send you a mate who is less than perfect but you're forgetting the most important thing. We all have free will and everyone is capable of succumbing to temptations. Unless you're taking the stance that you would NEVER divorce your spouse even if he (she) broke all of your wedding vows then it is possible that you could one day divorce that person.

Even God can only see so far, he doesn't know when someone is likely to choose a different path, he can only send to you what is perfect at the time.


Sure YOU may never stray from your husband and YOU may have unwavering faith in God but you can't say that for your spouse, you can't say that for any other person. So now you put all your faith in this person, because although your union is under God you are bound to them, you didn't suggest a prenup, your spouse has been lead astray and now wants a divorce and you have nothing. Your faith may bring you up again but it wont be an easy ride.

This doesnt even take into account any family possessions of value because it's not just you who is losing out. I don't truly know where I stand on this. If I have serious assets by the time I'm ready to marry I'll more than likely consider it. I will have been looking after me long before my husband comes along and I wont be stopping just because he's arrived.

HUH!????! Oh Dear! Oh Dear, Dear, Dear!

Sweetheart, since when is God limited? Let me answer before the devil and his marbles begin to roll backwards....

Never! God is and has and always will be ALL knowing. It is we as humans who are limited...not God.

Oohhhh, precious one... (((( hugs ))))

 

[dimpalz]

Okay so if that's true, and your husband chooses the wrong path (because God know's he will), then he wasn't right for you and you should have gotten a prenup drawn up. I guess that's even more reason to get one. Sure God sent him but you should know it may not be forever anyway.

I'd much prefer to believe God can't see exactly where man will be lead astray. It's much more comforting than believing he knows it wont be good for you but still lead you there anyway.

 

[michc]

Okay so if that's true, and your husband chooses the wrong path (because God know's he will), then he wasn't right for you and you should have gotten a prenup drawn up. I guess that's even more reason to get one. Sure God sent him but you should know it may not be forever anyway.

I'd much prefer to believe God can't see exactly where man will be lead astray. It's much more comforting than believing he knows it wont be good for you but still lead you there anyway.

The person God sends you is perfect for you. But it doesn't end there -as long as that person walks according to God's will for his life then the two of you will stay together and have a lasting fulfilling relationship.

BUT God does not impose His will on ours and it's when we up and decide to do things our way, that things go wrong. So if your husband that God picked for you decides that he isn't doing things God's way anymore and is gonna have affairs, abuse his wife, abuse his 'Headship' etc etc then, yes, in comes the Devil to cause trouble and ultimately destroy the marriage.

God knows exactly what's going to happen, doesn't mean that's the way He intended it or orchestrated it.

 

[firecracker]

I beg to differ. As a Christian women MOST if NOT EVERYTHING in my life, has to do with my faith in God.

I understand and Christians come in all shapes and sizes. God loves us all no greater or less.
I have unmitigated faith in God. He gave me wisdom and the gift of discernment in regards to taking care of myself and looking out for my future in case anything goes wrong.
A prenup is insurance to me right along with my long term disability, life, cancer, accident, fire, home insurance which is key to protecting my income and any assets in case something unexpected happens in life.

 

[cocoberry10]

I don't believe in pre nups. I believe in absolute trust in marriage AND I would like to think that I would choose someone with some good sense even if things didn't go well. I don't knock anyone for their use of pre nups but it's not for me. I will not let the times we live in dilute my full and unequivocal endorsement of marriage. I own a business and I would lose a great deal of money if I married and divorced but rather than focus on the possibility of failure, I would rather redirect my focus on insuring that I am marrying the 'right' person, for the right reasons and it's the right thing to do.

Marriage and life come with no guarantees. How is a pre nup God's 'gift' to us?.. because it exists? Arsenic exists too. Do we believe in God with one foot in the door? Why are the only things we have unwavering faith tend to be the things we have direct control? Marriage requires us to have as much faith in our significant others as we do in ourselves. If you can't do that with them then it may be time to reevaluate. You can share your deepest vulnerabilities, body and soul with your spouse and even entrust your life with them but uh oh... but when it comes to the assets thats a big no no? I'm sorry but I cannot subscribe to that notion. I'm not so attached to material wealth to let it interrupt my bond and spirituality.

How would I look standing before God on my judgement day and trying to explain that the pre nup was ' just business' yet I took the marital vows in his holy name.

Great post, as always!

 

[cocoberry10]

Arsenic exists too

I guess that's true!

 

[PaperClip]

Even God can only see so far,

Whoa! Flag on the play! As I'm on the sidelines watching this robust and spirited discussion, I had to step on the field and make a quick break for station identification:

GOD KNOWS EVERYTHING! GOD IS OMNICIENT! He is ALL-KNOWING! He knows the end from the beginning. He even knows what we're gonna do. He just DOESN'T MAKE US do it = free will.

Ok...back on topic.... A couple of points: I would say pre-nups come out of a place of fear, not a place of failure. One should not marry if there is a fear of loss. Loss of anything, including life. Jesus loved us so much that He gave His life for us.... Now I can't give my life for my husband's salvation per se, but I should at least be willing to do so out of my love for him, yes?

(This is me thinking out loud....)

 

[PaperClip]

I'm sure the high rates of divorce and absence of morals today have greatly affected the decision for people to get a pre nup. Fear is very influential. I wont argue that it makes good business sense to get one but I cant do it. I accept the consequences of my actions and if the marriage fails then I accept the fallout. I think it's ironic that I would block a divorcing spouse appropriate access to my assets but I once entrusted her with my life and MY assets on a daily basis.

I could not give my all to the marriage if I knew I had a 'back door'. Taking such precautions does affect your mentality towards the relationship. Marriage requires great sacrifice and it is one of life's biggest 'risks'. However that risk begets the greatest rewards if the marriage works out. I guess I'm just too compassionate for this 'take no prisoners and cover your tail' world .

You know the old saying, 'Don't Gamble what you're not willing to lose'. If you worry more about your assets than your marriage (or it's failure), then it's doomed from the start because you are already anticipating it's failure. Plant the seed. Reap what you sow.....JMO of course.

I think a pre-nup is ONLY a "financial" back door.... meaning that the assests are protected, not the things of the body, soul, and spirit. It does not address the many other things that could break up a marriage, e.g., infidelity, financial mismanagement, etc. Even the Bible talks about a man who does not take care of a family is considered worse than an infidel: 1 Timothy 5:8 "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."
An infidel is defined as an unbeliever. Now would God have us married to one who is/acts as an unbeliever? And if not, should one suffer financial harm/damage because of someone else's actions?

I think this topic and subsequent conversation is kind of telling as to how closely we associate material things with the marriage vows/sanctity of marriage.

(per my earlier posts, I probably sound confusing/conflicted. Don't be alarmed. It's only me in the thought process!)

 

[Xavier]

For those who support prenupts. My question is... are you going to include your pastor in this prenuptal discussion during pre-marriage counseling? Also I would be curious to see how he/she would support the whole prenupt issue on both sides of the argument. Also what does your church believe when it comes to this topic? Just something else to ponder.

 

[Shimmie]

For those who support prenupts. My question is... are you going to include your pastor in this prenuptal discussion during pre-marriage counseling? Also I would be curious to see how he/she would support the whole prenupt issue on both sides of the argument. Also what does your church believe when it comes to this topic? Just something else to ponder.

Good point...however there are Pastors with pre-nups...and many sitting in the pews have the same issues.

Soooo, it comes back to trusting God and the one to whom we've married. It's interesting how material gain, trumps trust.

 

[BlkManWithSomeSense]

Good point...however there are Pastors with pre-nups...and many sitting in the pews have the same issues.

Soooo, it comes back to trusting God and the one to whom we've married. It's interesting how material gain, trumps trust.

Very True. Sometimes material gain is a mixed blessing.

 

[Divine Inspiration]

Wow!! I need to start getting up earlier...this thread has been jumpin'!

BMWSS, WOW!! Loved both of your posts. Beautiful sentiments of a strong black man...we have to INSIST that marriage be the sacred institution it is. I applaud you not allowing the world to defile that which God has set aside.

I was going to address the comment about God not being all knowing but after more scrolling, everyone has said what I would have said...and very well, I might add.

I think a pre-nup is ONLY a "financial" back door.... meaning that the assests are protected, not the things of the body, soul, and spirit. It does not address the many other things that could break up a marriage, e.g., infidelity, financial mismanagement, etc.

Actually, there are prenups that address other things. An attorney can add a clause about everything from weight to child rearing.

I noticed you mentioned the other parts of the person not being protected, and that again makes me think of the thread where women were planning not to have unprotected sex with their husbands for fear of contracting a disease. My question (and not just to you RR, but in general) is when does it stop? When do you (general) stop allowing fear to pervade every area of your life and starting LIVING? God has not given us a spirit of fear. He came so that we might have life and have it more abundantly.

I guess my confusion is why people with this mindset would even get married. If trust issues are THAT prominent that you want a prenup, want to use condoms to prevent disease, and who knows what else, is that REALLY a marriage? Or is that two people protecting themselves from each other but living together??

I understand the need to be cautious, but I also believe that FEAR can sap life & faith out of any and everything if it's unchecked.

 

[Lusa]

For those who support prenupts. My question is... are you going to include your pastor in this prenuptal discussion during pre-marriage counseling? Also I would be curious to see how he/she would support the whole prenupt issue on both sides of the argument. Also what does your church believe when it comes to this topic? Just something else to ponder.

If I was contemplating having a pre-nuptial agreement while going through marital counseling and the subject came up I would be more than happy to discuss it. I personally do not see it as reflection on my faith or lack thereof. If I had valuable assets that I wanted to "insure" I would do it in a heart beat. My pre-nup wouldn't get into things about how often we would have sex, how many kids, how much for each year of marriage, that's hollywood.

For me it's this, if I am coming into this marriage with a million dollars in the stocks, bonds, property etc and you're coming in with a suitcase. There's no way in heck you're gonna be walking out with half of EVERYTHING I had initially if the marriage collapses!!!

 

[PaperClip]

I noticed you mentioned the other parts of the person not being protected, and that again makes me think of the thread where women were planning not to have unprotected sex with their husbands for fear of contracting a disease. My question (and not just to you RR, but in general) is when does it stop? When do you (general) stop allowing fear to pervade every area of your life and starting LIVING? God has not given us a spirit of fear. He came so that we might have life and have it more abundantly.

I really don't know where it stops.... You're right about God not giving us the spirit of fear, though. That's the word!

 

[Divine Inspiration]

Alright...a few questions for those in favor...

A) Will you be having unprotected sex with your husband?

B) Are you planning to share bank accounts with your husband?

C) Will you leave your children alone with your husband while you are away?

 

[cocoberry10]

Good point...however there are Pastors with pre-nups...and many sitting in the pews have the same issues.

Soooo, it comes back to trusting God and the one to whom we've married. It's interesting how material gain, trumps trust.

Are any of these mega-pastors (pastors of mega churches) we might know. I'm a little curious. Not trying to be a gossipmonger , but it would be interesting to know.

 

[PaperClip]

Are any of these mega-pastors (pastors of mega churches) we might know. I'm a little curious. Not trying to be a gossipmonger , but it would be interesting to know.

I am thinking that my pastor and his wife probably do not have a pre-nup, because when they got married, she was 18 years old and they've been married 26 years. He was relatively young as well so it wasn't like there was much brought to the table between them.

But for those that married later in life and may have been more established and have certain things they want to protect, I mean hey, pastors are human, too. (Shrug)

 

[cocoberry10]

Alright...a few questions for those in favor...

A) Will you be having unprotected sex with your husband?

B) Are you planning to share bank accounts with your husband?

C) Will you leave your children alone with your husband while you are away?

For those of you who do plan on pre-nups, I have no personal judgment against you for them, but as for me...
I don't personally believe in pre-nups, but refer to my post #52 as some of the reasons why some may believe in them (I'm giving the legal perspective as a future lawyer and all ).

BUT...Why I as a future lawyer, don't personally believe in a pre-nup is this:

I know that all I have, God has given me (and what I don't have he will give me).

My parents have been married for almost 35 years. My dad is also a lawyer, but he doesn't actively practice. He's got a business and is also one of the highest level corporate execs at one of the largest corps in the world. HOWEVER, I have seen my parents love and honor each other. NO PRENUP! Does that mean their marriage has been perfect. Noooooooo. But they have God, and we all have each other, and God uses us to build one another up, not destroy each other. I know that neither of my parents is out to get the other, but if that ever changed, I know that God does restore.

My marriage may not be as fortunate as my parents (if I ever get married, which only God knows this ). I may end up Divorced :fallenang . Again, ONLY GOD KNOWS THIS.

But, in my limited knowledge of my life and future...I DO KNOW THIS. What God has given me once, HE CAN GIVE ME AGAIN. It would be extremely hard and difficult to lose all the things I've worked hard for (and I've worked hard, y'all). BUT, IT WOULD BE THE HARDEST FOR ME TO TO EXPLAIN WHY I COULDN'T TRUST GOD. Truthfully, trusting God means not knowing the future, and risking that things will not be easy, smooth or okay. That's the risk you take. But like I said in post #52, a pre-nup is a contract. And as a future lawyer, we learn in contracts class, that CONTRACTS ARE VOIDABLE. But I have something stronger with God. I HAVE AN UNBREAKABLE COVENANT! So, even those of you that get pre-nups, know that courts strike them down and reinterpret them all the time (rare, but yes, it can happen, especially if it seems really unfair ). See, the world's ways aren't so fair .

For me, not getting a prenup has NOTHING to do with my future husband. Just like my choice not to engage in sex right now is not really about my husband. It's about my trust in my Heavenly Father.

And a great example of a wonderful man who trusted God AND LOST EVERYTHING is JOB. Job was "blameless" in all that he did, but God still allowed the devil to have his way with Job. But in the end, I know that God is a restorer. So there's nothing that can be taken away from me, that I can't get back...twofold, threefold, sevenfold.

Trust me, I have my days where I worry about things like this, and I have doubts. But I know that no matter who (or what ) kind of man I marry, even as cautious and good minded as I think I am, God will always be there for me.

As someone said earlier, God gives us free will. And that means you have every right to do the things that you feel will protect you. But as for me, I can't know my future, and I don't know the awful turmoil that WILL come into my life (b/c living in a fallen world means, dealing with the world's ways). But no matter what, there is a God, and I know He is amazing!

 

[Shimmie]

Are any of these mega-pastors (pastors of mega churches) we might know. I'm a little curious. Not trying to be a gossipmonger , but it would be interesting to know.

Errrrbody has em.... Uh-huh

 

[cocoberry10]

Errrrbody has em.... Uh-huh

Does this list include:

TD Jakes?
Creflo?
Joel Osteen?
Paula White?

I've gotta know...........................

I guess that's why all the prosperity teaching.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

Does this list include:

TD Jakes?
Creflo?
Joel Osteen?
Paula White?

I've gotta know...........................

I guess that's why all the prosperity teaching.

Creflo probably brought pre-nup agreements on dates!

"Any monies that party 1 and party 2 individually bring on date will pay for each parties food eaten on said date. If party 2 orders Lobster and can't pay for lobster, then party 1 will offer to provide (without prejudice) gloves for party 2 to wash dishes to pay for party 2's meal."



What?

 

[michc]

Errrrbody has em.... Uh-huh

What?? You are joking??? I am so naive as to what's going on in the world....

 

[cocoberry10]

Creflo probably brought pre-nup agreements on dates!

"Any monies that party 1 and party 2 individually bring on date will pay for each parties food eaten on said date. If party 2 orders Lobster and can't pay for lobster, then party 1 will offer to provide (without prejudice) gloves for party 2 to wash dishes to pay for party 2's meal."



What?

And this is exactly why I go back to my earlier post and say again...

But, in my limited knowledge of my life and future...I DO KNOW THIS. What God has given me once, HE CAN GIVE ME AGAIN. But no matter what, there is a God, and I know He is amazing!

 

[Shimmie]

Does this list include:

TD Jakes?
Creflo?
Joel Osteen?
Paula White?

I've gotta know...........................

I guess that's why all the prosperity teaching.

Oh my goodness. You know what, Coco, I have been so UNABLE to have fun today. I was at work ... working ... which I don't normally do Nawww - Uhhhhh

AND when I replied "Errrr body" I was just being 'funny'... and I couldn't come back right away to finish my post.

HOWEVER... think about it. JCoily has made a point here. These men do NOT wish to lose their MeGa churches. Come on and look at the news of the 'mighty fallen'. Ummmmm, wifey can do some pottie wiiping big time.

Pre-nups, maybe not...but Interval-Post Nups, I would not be surprised. They were ALL broke when they were married.

Paula....ummm, I mean Randy, isn't about to lose all that she... I mean "he' has gained.

I would hope that none of the above mentioned do, but I do know of 'younger' ministers entering into marriage, who are being ADVISED to do such --- Ummmm, Yep They are being advised by clergy (some clergy -- not all) to do a pre-nup. I've heard it come 'across' the pulpilt so many times. I'll tell you why. There are many woman (fast ones) who are 'marrying' men for prestige, not so much the love, but as for what he can give her financially. Sad, just sad...

I just want to love and trust my husband. God will honor that.

Love you, Darlin'.... I'm sorry for teasing you.

 

[PaperClip]

HOWEVER... think about it. JCoily has made a point here. These men do NOT wish to lose their MeGa churches. Come on and look at the news of the 'mighty fallen'. Ummmmm, wifey can do some pottie wiiping big time.

Pre-nups, maybe not...but Interval-Post Nups, I would not be surprised. They were ALL broke when they were married.

Such an arrangement could be good for the wives who are free from any obligations in case the church gets into arrears. The wife's name ain't on the paper, she's not liable.

 

[Shimmie]

Creflo probably brought pre-nup agreements on dates!

"Any monies that party 1 and party 2 individually bring on date will pay for each parties food eaten on said date. If party 2 orders Lobster and can't pay for lobster, then party 1 will offer to provide (without prejudice) gloves for party 2 to wash dishes to pay for party 2's meal."



What?

I'm sorry, but this is funny... A pre-nup for a date!!! I would love to see how this turns out in Judge Judy's or Judge Mathis' court room.

The thing is, I wouldn't be surprised if someone did this. Perhaps the 'Donald' or some other 'mega-nairre', having a woman sign a 'date pre-nup' .... but a date isn't a nup... it a more of a nope.

 

[Shimmie]

HOWEVER... think about it. JCoily has made a point here. These men do NOT wish to lose their MeGa churches. Come on and look at the news of the 'mighty fallen'. Ummmmm, wifey can do some pottie wiiping big time.

Pre-nups, maybe not...but Interval-Post Nups, I would not be surprised. They were ALL broke when they were married.

Such an arrangement could be good for the wives who are free from any obligations in case the church gets into arrears. The wife's name ain't on the paper, she's not liable.

Sad that's it's the church...a line defense over money which should not be.

(Disclaimer: I don't have a clue about football, so the term used above just sound-ed right... )

 

[firecracker]

My parents have been married for almost 35 years.

That's a big difference to me because they obviously got married young and did all things together. Ie: retirement planning, accumulating assets and wealth.

At a certain age after preparing, accumulating, achieving financial goals individually for your future and children one would be a simpleton to simply throw that to the wind all because "I's married now".

Also I doubt if fear has anything to do with maintaining and securing what you worked so hard to accomplish for your family's future prior to marriage. I would definitely expect a man to have his ducks in order for his future and children as well prior to marriage.