Prenuptial Agreements: Yay or Nay for Christian Marriages

[PaperClip]

This topic was on a radio program this morning. I listened to the discussion with more "mature" ears today than I had in the past.

On one hand, I understand the "leave and cleave" principle of marriage. On the other hand, as a single person, a single woman at that, I am building assests for myself, going to school, etc. Also, I am beyond the traditional church marrying age (25 or younger). At 25, I can imagine blending with my husband and we build together. But I'm not 25 anymore. Yes, this is definitely about issues of trust, but also about wise stewardship, yes?

I did not plan to not be married at this age. I expected to be married. I got a 'lil bit now.... Isn't protection and (financial) self-preservation a wise decision?

Looking forward to a sincere and thought-provoking dialogue.

 

[Keen]

I have to say Nay. To me, prenupts negates the forever part of the vows. It's like you are going in the marriage with an expectation of failure. If that is the case, you don't need to marry that person.

 

[firecracker]

Shot forget that I want both of us to retain whatever we come it to the marriage with. We can split whatever we obtain together if we divorce at this late age.

 

[Lusa]

I say yes wholeheartedly. I think it's even more important as people wait longer to get married. There's a lot at risk and I don't begrudge anyone the right to protect their finances/investments that they earned prior to marrying their spouse.

 

[vickid]

Shot forget that I want both of us to retain whatever we come it to the marriage with. We can split whatever we obtain together if we divorce at this late age.

Hey Firecracker! We are on the same page with this one! Whatever is mine prior to marriage is mine and vice versa. This has nothing to do with love, honor and respect---this has everything to do with business. Period. My husband and I had a prenup prior to marriage and when I brought up the subject, he had no problems with it. He knew it protected both parties. We drew up the prenup, had our separate attornies revise it and we signed it. I don't think it was every brought up since that date.

Funny, it was my mom (age 75) that suggested the prenup. She said she had worked hard for everything she had and since I am her only heir, she wanted to make sure that it went to ME. Her negative experience with my dad taught her a great deal about finances and property!!!

 

[PaperClip]

Hmm... Interesting already! I think I'm going to try to add a poll....

For those who said yes to prenups, do you think this is a relatively new phenomenon with influences from society (outside of church) and that the church is just late catching up to acknowledging that women are (having to) becoming more independent outside of marriage? And that women (and men) are marrying later in life?

ETA: couldn't add a poll.... Sorry!

 

[Xavier]

I have to say Nay. To me, prenupts negates the forever part of the vows. It's like you are going in the marriage with an expectation of failure. If that is the case, you don't need to marry that person.

I agree. If you put God first in your marriage and seek him in your decision to marry your mate then signing a prenupt is like say "I trust that this is the one you sent me Lord BUT"... If you truly TRUST the Lord in this life long commitment that you are making then there should be no doubt. Asking for a prenupt would be an insult to my mate and it would definitely be an insult to me if I was asked about one. I also believe that a prenupt is just another way that you are speaking divorce into existence your situation(marriage) without even realizing it. Just my opinion.

 

[alexstin]

I say no.

 

[Divine Inspiration]

I have to say Nay. To me, prenupts negates the forever part of the vows. It's like you are going in the marriage with an expectation of failure. If that is the case, you don't need to marry that person.

I agree. If you put God first in your marriage and seek him in your decision to marry your mate then signing a prenupt is like say "I trust that this is the one you sent me Lord BUT"... If you truly TRUST the Lord in this life long commitment that you are making then there should be no doubt. Asking for a prenupt would be an insult to my mate and it would definitely be an insult to me if I was asked about one. I also believe that a prenupt is just another way that you are speaking divorce into existence your situation(marriage) without even realizing it. Just my opinion.

I think a prenupt is an insult to GOD. It's a suggestion that God is not ordering the steps of your marriage and/or your individual steps. How can I say I have faith but turn around and sign a document to "protect myself"? Protect myself from what?! That's what God is doing! There is NOTHING I can protect myself from that God can't handle. My faith should lie with him...not with some signatures. What do I have really faith in? If I believe that if God is for me, NO ONE can be against me, why do I need a prenupt?? My God is bigger than me, my future husband, my attorney, my agent, my manager, my bank account, my mom, my dad...there is no such thing as a "just in case" because every single one of my steps is ordered. God will NEVER put more on me than I can bear. He is faithful and just, and He is not a malicious God.

We protect ourselves with things like car insurance and homeowner's insurance because those are things put into place to physically protect us. How can marriage be compared to a car? How can marriage be compared to a house? To me the union before God and the exchange of vows is more profound than a prenupt would allow.

And I agree with these ladies regarding expectation. How hard are you really willing to work in a marriage knowing that you've got an insurance policy in place? The vows DO say forever, but a prenupt says "just in case." I don't think God needs help protecting us. If we pray and remain in His will, He will keep us in PERFECT peace. To me, it's the equivalent of praying over all parts of your life except one. It's like saying, "God I know you're good with the other stuff, but I can handle this one." His ways are not my ways. Everything he can ever do or set into motion in my life is divine, and I respect that.

Some folks say, "Well, what if he cheats on me or 'goes crazy'??" And to that I reply, What if?! How do you know what's going to happen? My question is WHO holds your tomorrow? God or your attorney? If I'm giving my marriage to God, I don't need to worry about all of the possibilities that "might" happen...because all things work together for the good of those who love Him.

I know that many people approach marriage like a business deal, and that's fine. I don't see it that way. I believe it is a sacred and divine entity that is to be respected and honored.

The above is my opinion and is not meant to suggest that anybody's way is wrong. These are just my thoughts on the topic.

RR, this is a great thread!!

{DI}

 

[Supergirl]

What Keen, Brownsugababe, & DI said.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Signing a prenup is like making a provision for the marriage to fail. As the others said, if you are trusting God in this thing, why have a "just in case?"

Now if you are just marrying somebody and you really don't know if God put you two together (What God has joined together...) then I could see why some think a prenup is just fine for Christians.

 

[StrawberryQueen]

I think a prenupt is an insult to GOD. It's a suggestion that God is not ordering the steps of your marriage and/or your individual steps. How can I say I have faith but turn around and sign a document to "protect myself"? Protect myself from what?! That's what God is doing! There is NOTHING I can protect myself from that God can't handle. My faith should lie with him...not with some signatures. What do I have really faith in? If I believe that if God is for me, NO ONE can be against me, why do I need a prenupt?? My God is bigger than me, my future husband, my attorney, my agent, my manager, my bank account, my mom, my dad...there is no such thing as a "just in case" because every single one of my steps is ordered. God will NEVER put more on me than I can bear. He is faithful and just, and He is not a malicious God.

We protect ourselves with things like car insurance and homeowner's insurance because those are things put into place to physically protect us. How can marriage be compared to a car? How can marriage be compared to a house? To me the union before God and the exchange of vows is more profound than a prenupt would allow.

And I agree with these ladies regarding expectation. How hard are you really willing to work in a marriage knowing that you've got an insurance policy in place? The vows DO say forever, but a prenupt says "just in case." I don't think God needs help protecting us. If we pray and remain in His will, He will keep us in PERFECT peace. To me, it's the equivalent of praying over all parts of your life except one. It's like saying, "God I know you're good with the other stuff, but I can handle this one." His ways are not my ways. Everything he can ever do or set into motion in my life is divine, and I respect that.

Some folks say, "Well, what if he cheats on me or 'goes crazy'??" And to that I reply, What if?! How do you know what's going to happen? My question is WHO holds your tomorrow? God or your attorney? If I'm giving my marriage to God, I don't need to worry about all of the possibilities that "might" happen...because all things work together for the good of those who love Him.

I know that many people approach marriage like a business deal, and that's fine. I don't see it that way. I believe it is a sacred and divine entity that is to be respected and honored.

The above is my opinion and is not meant to suggest that anybody's way is wrong. These are just my thoughts on the topic.

RR, this is a great thread!!

{DI}

Wow DI, I love your posts! You should be a minister to young girls.

 

[Divine Inspiration]

Wow DI, I love your posts! You should be a minister to young girls.

Well thank you! I'm speaking at a young women's empowerment conference tomorrow.

 

[Xavier]

I think a prenupt is an insult to GOD. It's a suggestion that God is not ordering the steps of your marriage and/or your individual steps. How can I say I have faith but turn around and sign a document to "protect myself"? Protect myself from what?! That's what God is doing! There is NOTHING I can protect myself from that God can't handle. My faith should lie with him...not with some signatures. What do I have really faith in? If I believe that if God is for me, NO ONE can be against me, why do I need a prenupt?? My God is bigger than me, my future husband, my attorney, my agent, my manager, my bank account, my mom, my dad...there is no such thing as a "just in case" because every single one of my steps is ordered. God will NEVER put more on me than I can bear. He is faithful and just, and He is not a malicious God.

We protect ourselves with things like car insurance and homeowner's insurance because those are things put into place to physically protect us. How can marriage be compared to a car? How can marriage be compared to a house? To me the union before God and the exchange of vows is more profound than a prenupt would allow.

And I agree with these ladies regarding expectation. How hard are you really willing to work in a marriage knowing that you've got an insurance policy in place? The vows DO say forever, but a prenupt says "just in case." I don't think God needs help protecting us. If we pray and remain in His will, He will keep us in PERFECT peace. To me, it's the equivalent of praying over all parts of your life except one. It's like saying, "God I know you're good with the other stuff, but I can handle this one." His ways are not my ways. Everything he can ever do or set into motion in my life is divine, and I respect that.

Some folks say, "Well, what if he cheats on me or 'goes crazy'??" And to that I reply, What if?! How do you know what's going to happen? My question is WHO holds your tomorrow? God or your attorney? If I'm giving my marriage to God, I don't need to worry about all of the possibilities that "might" happen...because all things work together for the good of those who love Him.

I know that many people approach marriage like a business deal, and that's fine. I don't see it that way. I believe it is a sacred and divine entity that is to be respected and honored.

The above is my opinion and is not meant to suggest that anybody's way is wrong. These are just my thoughts on the topic.

RR, this is a great thread!!

{DI}

That's what I'm talking about. Preach Girl!

 

[envybeauty]

A popular preacher preached about death (sorry to be morbid but that was his example). He was to travel to another country with some other preachers. He had a feeling that he should not take the flight and that he should stay home. He told this to another preacher and the other preacher said, I will go because I believe that God will protect me from harm. God is there and I will not be harmed. So he went. The first preacher stayed behind. As it turns out, the preacher was killed in a car accident shortly after his flight landed and he was picked up from the airport. The message from the preacher who lived, is that God is there yes, but bad things do happen so we also have to learn to protect ourselves as well as seek God's protection. I hope I wrote this clearly enough for others to understand the gist of his message.

That said, I do not believe that taking measures to protect yourself from future harm is any offense to God. No more than getting immunizations, insurance, etc. God is there, here, everywhere, yes, but He also placed means/methods on earth for us to protect ourselves as well.

just my opinion.

 

[Southernbella.]

That said, I do not believe that taking measures to protect yourself from future harm is any offense to God. No more than getting immunizations, insurance, etc. God is there, here, everywhere, yes, but He also placed means/methods on earth for us to protect ourselves as well.

just my opinion.

I agree with you for the most part. My dh and I didn't have much when we got married right out of school, so I didn't have to think about this. But what if we were older and both had homes/cars/IRA's, etc? Oviously, nobody goes into marriages thinking they will get divorced, but one spouse can't control what the other does. What if your husband files? Will you just not ever sign the papers? Some things are beyond your control, so I don't see anything wrong with taking steps to make sure you are taken care of.

Many Christians have seperate bank accounts for various reasons. Isn't this kind of similar?

I think you can ask anyone Christian woman who's been divorced after years of trying to make it work and I'm sure they'd tell you all the things they wished they had done to better protect themselves.

Do I think prenups are in line with what God said about marriage? Probably not, but in this day and age, I think it's good to use a little wisdom.

 

[Keen]

A popular preacher preached about death (sorry to be morbid but that was his example). He was to travel to another country with some other preachers. He had a feeling that he should not take the flight and that he should stay home. He told this to another preacher and the other preacher said, I will go because I believe that God will protect me from harm. God is there and I will not be harmed. So he went. The first preacher stayed behind. As it turns out, the preacher was killed in a car accident shortly after his flight landed and he was picked up from the airport. The message from the preacher who lived, is that God is there yes, but bad things do happen so we also have to learn to protect ourselves as well as seek God's protection. I hope I wrote this clearly enough for others to understand the gist of his message.

That said, I do not believe that taking measures to protect yourself from future harm is any offense to God. No more than getting immunizations, insurance, etc. God is there, here, everywhere, yes, but He also placed means/methods on earth for us to protect ourselves as well.

just my opinion.

So the preacher chose not to go at all. Which is what I'm saying, if your gutt feeling is telling you that you will need protection from that man, just don't marry him at all.

 

[Divine Inspiration]

So the preacher chose not to go at all. Which is what I'm saying, if your gutt feeling is telling you that you will need protection from that man, just don't marry him at all.

OT: Lauren, that little boy is TOO cute!!

 

[envybeauty]

Sometimes the feeling is not that direct.

But look at what happened to the great gut feeling pastor. Even if the other pastor had not mentioned his own ill feelings, he still would have taken the trip (as he did). He felt like he would be protected no matter what. He committed to the trip and he took it. Then disaster happened.

How many people get married (great gut feelings and all) and then disaster happens? About 50% in the US given the divorce rates. That rate would be higher if people did not stay put in marriages they feel trapped in and wished they had a prenup to forecast how a divorce would turn out. Not knowing what to expect, they stay put and are miserable in their marriages.

Most don't see the "danger" of divorce looming until it is too late (like the other preacher --- he had great gut feelings about the trip -- but then he died).

 

[kbragg]

So the preacher chose not to go at all. Which is what I'm saying, if your gutt feeling is telling you that you will need protection from that man, just don't marry him at all.

You said what I was thinking! The preacher who "had a feeling" not to go was listening to the Holy Spirit's unctioning. If the Holy Spirit is telling you "no" then a Prenup won't help. You either trust God or you dont. Plain and simple. Job lost everything he had and God not only restored him, but prospered Him. Why? Because he had faith that God would preserve him in the good times AND in the bad. Signing a prenup is like saying "Well God, it's a lot different nowadays, let me do this my way...I trust you, yes this man is from you, yes your ways or perfect...but here, let me help you out."

It's the whole post modern mentality. The world entering the church. And lawyers? Jesus wasn't fond of them back then and God is the same yesterday, today and forever!
http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=lawyers&qs_version=9

I'm joking....kinda

 

[envybeauty]

You said what I was thinking! The preacher who "had a feeling" not to go was listening to the Holy Spirit's unctioning. If the Holy Spirit is telling you "no" then a Prenup won't help. You either trust God or you dont. Plain and simple. Job lost everything he had and God not only restored him, but prospered Him. Why? Because he had faith that God would preserve him in the good times AND in the bad. Signing a prenup is like saying "Well God, it's a lot different nowadays, let me do this my way...I trust you, yes this man is from you, yes your ways or perfect...but here, let me help you out."

It's the whole post modern mentality. The world entering the church. And lawyers? Jesus wasn't fond of them back then and God is the same yesterday, today and forever!
http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=lawyers&qs_version=9

I'm joking....kinda

Lawyers do a lot of good in society. Some of the most notable people in Black history in this country are attorneys. If not for lawyers, there would still be slavery, segregation, and all sorts of restrictions against basic human rights for Blacks and women (and we know where Black women fit into societal mistreatment). Many people would be proud to have their sons and daughters be lawyers instead of what they are now....if they amounted to anything at all.

Lawyers/prenups do not create the desire for women to leave their husbands or for men to leave their wives. How a couple starts on the road to divorce has nothing to do with a prenup especially since most divorced couples don't have one.

 

[Southernbella.]

Signing a prenup is like saying "Well God, it's a lot different nowadays, let me do this my way...I trust you, yes this man is from you, yes your ways or perfect...but here, let me help you out."

So because God sent your husband to you, God will totally control him? That goes against the principle of free will.

 

[Xavier]

So because God sent your husband to you, God will totally control him? That goes against the principle of free will.

God will not control him but you should trust that if he strays and divorce does occur God will get you through that "valley experience". All you will come out better than when you came in.

 

[Southernbella.]

OT: Lauren, that little boy is TOO cute!!

Thank you!

 

[kbragg]

Lawyers do a lot of good in society. Some of the most notable people in Black history in this country are attorneys. If not for lawyers, there would still be slavery, segregation, and all sorts of restrictions against basic human rights for Blacks and women (and we know where Black women fit into societal mistreatment). Many people would be proud to have their sons and daughters be lawyers instead of what they are now....if they amounted to anything at all.

Lawyers/prenups do not create the desire for women to leave their husbands or for men to leave their wives. How a couple starts on the road to divorce has nothing to do with a prenup especially since most divorced couples don't have one.

It's called a joke....hence the guy at the end of that part of my post...

 

[kbragg]

God will not control him but you should trust that if he strays and divorce does occur God will get you through that "valley experience". All you will come out better than when you came in.

Exactly my thinking. OOOH thank you Lord! Perfect example of this is Sarah and Abraham! Thank you Lord for this! When God gave Abraham the promise what happened? They did a little "insurance" and tried to help God along. Sure they said they trusted God at His word, but just in case....here Abe, have it with my hand maiden! The Middle East is STILL a mess years later because of that! But anyway, Ishmeal (sp?) was the child of the flesh (they took it into their own hands "just in case") whereas Isaac was the child of the promise. If God has promised you a spouse, there should be no "just in case." Look what happened with Abraham and Sarah. Proof that God doesn't approve of the "just in cases" when it comes to His Word.

 

[Southernbella.]

God will not control him but you should trust that if he strays and divorce does occur God will get you through that "valley experience". All you will come out better than when you came in.

I hear you. I think I'm just coming from a place of understanding for people who DO get them, especially women.

Three years ago when I stopped working, nobody could have told me anything about setting aside my own money for emergencies. In my eyes, nothing could happen in my marriage that would require me to need my own seperate money.

Now that I have children, I see things differently. I know God put my marriage together, and I know He makes no mistakes. But people do. If my husband ever went nuts and acted a fool and I needed to get myself and my kids out of the situation, how would I do that? I trust God with everything in me, but I also trust the wisdom He's given me.

Let's say you believe God gave you your home. If you weren't required to have homeowner's insurance, would you just trust that you would never need it? Or would you get it because some things are just beyond your control (like the weather, fire, etc.)

 

[Xavier]

Exactly my thinking. OOOH thank you Lord! Perfect example of this is Sarah and Abraham! Thank you Lord for this! When God gave Abraham the promise what happened? They did a little "insurance" and tried to help God along. Sure they said they trusted God at His word, but just in case....here Abe, have it with my hand maiden! The Middle East is STILL a mess years later because of that! But anyway, Ishmeal (sp?) was the child of the flesh (they took it into their own hands "just in case") whereas Isaac was the child of the promise. If God has promised you a spouse, there should be no "just in case." Look what happened with Abraham and Sarah. Proof that God doesn't approve of the "just in cases" when it comes to His Word.

GREAT example!!! The story of Abraham, Sarah and Hagar. Genesis 15 and 16.

 

[Browndilocks]

The older I get and the more things I acquire, the more I entertain the thought of a prenup. Yet I don't think I'll do it. This is why it's important to be selective in who you date. I think it's important to date people on your social, intellectual, spiritual and financial level. Fact is - the only time a prenup is really an issue is when one has much more than the other. If both people already have houses, cars, money, etc. the feeling to have to "protect" yourself wouldn't be prevalent. Even from a Christian perspective, just because he's saved isn't enough IMO. He needs to be on your level...

Maybe this sounds naive and corny but I envision my life being so much better if I were to get married. So good in fact that what I attain within the marriage would overshadow anything I could have gotten on my own before I entered the relationship. That's just the type of faith I have.

God forbid if anything happens, I'd probably want to get rid of at least half of everything anyway so I can throw things away and make room for a new life.

 

[Southernbella.]

Proof that God doesn't approve of the "just in cases" when it comes to His Word.

So I take that to mean that married couples shouldn't use birth control either. After all, God said to be fruitul and multiply. Birth control is a "just in case", right? Otherwise, we would just trust God not to allow us to get pregnant if it's not time, right?

Maybe this sounds naive and corny but I envision my life being so much better if I were to get married. So good in fact that what I attain within the marriage would overshadow anything I could have gotten on my own before I entered the relationship. That's just the type of faith I have.

That's not naive or corny. It's very sweet.

 

[envybeauty]

You said what I was thinking! The preacher who "had a feeling" not to go was listening to the Holy Spirit's unctioning. If the Holy Spirit is telling you "no" then a Prenup won't help. You either trust God or you dont. Plain and simple. Job lost everything he had and God not only restored him, but prospered Him. Why? Because he had faith that God would preserve him in the good times AND in the bad. Signing a prenup is like saying "Well God, it's a lot different nowadays, let me do this my way...I trust you, yes this man is from you, yes your ways or perfect...but here, let me help you out."

It's the whole post modern mentality. The world entering the church. And lawyers? Jesus wasn't fond of them back then and God is the same yesterday, today and forever!
http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=lawyers&qs_version=9

I'm joking....kinda [/quote]

It's called a joke....hence the guy at the end of that part of my post...

kinda wasn’t