divya
Well-Known Member
Interested in both!
Non-Mainstream Christianity
- Thread starter divya
- Start date
Interested in both!
divya
Well-Known Member
Laela
Sidestepping the "lynch mob"
Yes...I'm in agreement.. that was so well said.
So very true. I love the way in which you have state this. Thank you!
Mamita
Back to basics
just wanted to say...
I feel good here (in this thread)
it reminded me that unfortunately there seems to be a conservative vs liberal thing going on
and im happy with my dinosaur beliefs, if i could go back to the first church days i would, anyday
that reminds me has anyone got a good book about how it was back then?
it can be historical, economical, not fiction, or if you know some "religious" oriented books about how things went, comparing jews worships and the first church, with the apostles, you know, i love details and trivia lol
im very careful with what i read, so i'd rather go on word to mouth
thank you ladies
I feel good here (in this thread)
it reminded me that unfortunately there seems to be a conservative vs liberal thing going on
and im happy with my dinosaur beliefs, if i could go back to the first church days i would, anyday
that reminds me has anyone got a good book about how it was back then?
it can be historical, economical, not fiction, or if you know some "religious" oriented books about how things went, comparing jews worships and the first church, with the apostles, you know, i love details and trivia lol
im very careful with what i read, so i'd rather go on word to mouth
thank you ladies
Laela
Sidestepping the "lynch mob"
Mamita
Back to basics
Yeah i was actually talking about that thread, and it popped in my inbox cause i had asked for notification
i was amazed by her post
really good read
and i agree with her, but i'm "team conservative" lol and dont mind the label lol
God's Master Plan : The Holy Days –
Old Testament meaning and New Testament meaning
Passover :
A lamb was sacrificed and its blood placed around the doors of Israelite houses in Egypt, which God "passed over" when slaying the Egyptian firstborn.
(Leviticus 23:5)
Pictures Jesus Christ's shedding His blood for the sins of mankind.
Feast of Unleavened Bread :
A seven-day festival during which leavening (such as yeast, which causes bread to rise when baking) is put out of dwellings and is not eaten.
(Leviticus 23:6-14)
Pictures the Christian's duty to "put out sin" from a life yielded to Jesus Christ.
Day of Pentecost :
A day celebrating the gathering in of the first and smaller of the two annual harvests; observed 50 days from a fixed point in the previous Feast.
(Leviticus 23:15-22)
Pictures the Christian's receiving God's Holy Spirit.
Feast of Trumpets :
Called Rosh Hashana by the Jews; a day of rejoicing marked by the blowing of trumpets. (Leviticus 23:23-25)
Pictures a time of war and plagues, concluding with Jesus Christ's Second Coming.
Day of Atonement :
A day of fasting and repentance, known to the Jews as Yom Kippur
(Leviticus 23:26-32)
Pictures the binding of Satan at the beginning of the Millennium and the world becoming at one with God.
Feast of Tabernacles :
A seven-day celebration of the great fall harvest, observed by living in temporary dwellings for the duration of the Feast. (Leviticus 23:33-43)
Pictures the Millennium, when the earth will be ruled by Jesus Christ and His saints.
Last Great Day :
Adjacent to the Feast of Tabernacles, this eighth day is considered a separate Feast. (Leviticus 23:36, 39)
Pictures the coming "Great White Throne Judgment" at which all of humanity not previously called will have the chance to hear the True Gospel and accept salvation.
[FONT="]http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/tw/booklets/tw-bk.cgi?category=Booklets1&item=1104358140[/FONT]
The other feasts will be fulfilled in the kingdom of God ((Lu. 22:16). The feast of tabernacles/ingathering is a celebration of the great harvest, in other words a celebration of God’s sovereignty. It is an accomplishment of Mathew 6.10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. As God’s reign will remain, the feast of tabernacles will remain in the kingdom of God.
For the how :
Lev 23 : 34-42; Deut. 16 : 13-15; Deut 31 : 9-13; Es. 3 : 4; Ne. 8 : 13-18.
The meaning of this feast
Jn. 7.2 Now the Jew's feast of tabernacles was at hand… 7.14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught… 7.16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
7.37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 7.38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 7.39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
1- God’s choice
(Lev. 23.43 That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.)
1Pet. 2.9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; 2.10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
2- God’s glory
(Ex.34.30 And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him. 34.35 And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.)
Mat. 16.27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 16.28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Mat. 17.1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 17.2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.17.3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 17.4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 17.5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
2Cor. 3 : 7-11; Mat. 24 : 30-31; Dan 12 : 2-3; Ph. 3 : 20-21; Is. 40 : 5
3- God’s reign
(Ex.34.29 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.)
Zac. 14.9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Is. 2.2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 2.3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Is. 32.1 Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment.
Is. 11 : 1-9; Jer. 31 : 34; Is. 40 : 9-11
4- God’s presence
(Ex. 25.8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
25.9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.
Zac.8.2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury. 8.3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.
Is. 33.20 Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities: thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tabernacle that shall not be taken down; not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be removed, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken. 33.21 But there the glorious LORD will be unto us a place of broad rivers and streams; wherein shall go no galley with oars, neither shall gallant ship pass thereby. 33.22 For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.
Rev. 21.3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 21.4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
For the how :
Lev 23 : 34-42; Deut. 16 : 13-15; Deut 31 : 9-13; Es. 3 : 4; Ne. 8 : 13-18.
The meaning of this feast
Jn. 7.2 Now the Jew's feast of tabernacles was at hand… 7.14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught… 7.16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
7.37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 7.38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 7.39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
1- God’s choice
(Lev. 23.43 That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.)
1Pet. 2.9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; 2.10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
2- God’s glory
(Ex.34.30 And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him. 34.35 And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.)
Mat. 16.27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 16.28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Mat. 17.1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 17.2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.17.3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 17.4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 17.5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
2Cor. 3 : 7-11; Mat. 24 : 30-31; Dan 12 : 2-3; Ph. 3 : 20-21; Is. 40 : 5
3- God’s reign
(Ex.34.29 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.)
Zac. 14.9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Is. 2.2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 2.3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Is. 32.1 Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment.
Is. 11 : 1-9; Jer. 31 : 34; Is. 40 : 9-11
4- God’s presence
(Ex. 25.8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
25.9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.
Zac.8.2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury. 8.3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.
Is. 33.20 Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities: thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tabernacle that shall not be taken down; not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be removed, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken. 33.21 But there the glorious LORD will be unto us a place of broad rivers and streams; wherein shall go no galley with oars, neither shall gallant ship pass thereby. 33.22 For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.
Rev. 21.3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 21.4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
The feast of tabernacles in the kingdom of God :
Punishment
Zac. 14.17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 14.18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 14.19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Rejoicing
(Deut. 16.14 And thou shalt rejoice in thy feast…)
Zac. 14.16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Is. 25.6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined. 25.7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. 25.8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
25.9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.
Is. 35.2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.
35.10 And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.
In bottom, two detailed studies on the feast of tabernacles (one in text and one in subjects). I don’t agree with the part that Christians do keep the Jewish holy days (as I don’t follow the worldly or pagan holy days, Jesus-Christ is my Holy*), but it is very interesting.
http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fus...bernacles-When-Whole-World-Will-Be-Called.htm
http://sabbath.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/BS/k/493/subj/dub/Holy-Days-Gods-Plan.htm
Punishment
Zac. 14.17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 14.18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 14.19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Rejoicing
(Deut. 16.14 And thou shalt rejoice in thy feast…)
Zac. 14.16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Is. 25.6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined. 25.7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. 25.8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
25.9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.
Is. 35.2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.
35.10 And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.
In bottom, two detailed studies on the feast of tabernacles (one in text and one in subjects). I don’t agree with the part that Christians do keep the Jewish holy days (as I don’t follow the worldly or pagan holy days, Jesus-Christ is my Holy*), but it is very interesting.
http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fus...bernacles-When-Whole-World-Will-Be-Called.htm
http://sabbath.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/BS/k/493/subj/dub/Holy-Days-Gods-Plan.htm
:Rose:
MA2010
Well-Known Member
Divya, and other ladies, please help me with this belief.
I read both Ecclesiastes 2 and Revelation 20. I'm not understanding how the lake of fire will be burned out.
Revelation 20:10
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Does this only pertain to the devil, beast and false prophet?
Ecclesiastes 2 spoke of meaningless pleasures, folly, toil, and wisdom. I am confused with this also.
Help please............
divya
Well-Known Member
Of course Manushka! Please bear with me. This is very long, but I believe this is probably the best way to explain this issue.
The belief is based on the meaning of the term "forever and ever" in the Scriptures. But first, let's look at the lake of fire in general. It is not a place that is burning now.
Matthew 5:28-29 - Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Daniel 12:2 - And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
The Scriptures tell us that the hour is coming when we will receive our heavenly reward or the lake of fire. The lake of fire is not yet in existence. All people are sleeping in the grave awaiting for the Lord resurrect them at either the resurrection of life (Second Coming taking the righteous to heaven) or the next resurrection (ultimately resulting in the second death). The next post will explain this in a bit more detail.
___________________________________________
Ok, now to the the term for ever and ever/everlasting in terms of the lake of fire.
As mentioned earlier, for ever in the Scriptures often has a different meaning than what we understand it to mean today. It often means until the end of an event. For an example, we can look at the story of Jonah. Jonah describes the length of time as forever.
Jonah 5:6 - The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head. I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
However, the Scriptures previously state that Jonah was in the belly of the whale 3 days and 3 nights.
Jonah 1:17 - Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
Another example is Sodom and Gomorrah, where the Bible states that the cities suffered eternal fire.
Jude 1:7 - Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
But we know that the cities are not still burning today. The Bible means that they simply burning until all was consumed. 2 Peter 2:6 confirms this by stating that Sodom and Gomorrah were reduced to ashes.
2 Peter 2:6 - And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
__________________________________________
So it leaves you asking yourself, if Sodom and Gomorrha suffered eternal fire, then why does 2 Peter say that they cities were reduced to ashes? It's because Holy Scriptures in many cases uses terms like forever/eternal etc. to mean until the end of a particular event. So the same concept with the lake of fire that will consume the wicked. Like Sodom and Gomorrah, the lake of fire that is supposed to burn forever, just means burning until everything is gone. See the following verses.
Malachi 4:1 - For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Psalm 37:38 - But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.
Job 21:30 - That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.….
(continued in the next post)
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divya
Well-Known Member
...continuing....
It is important to note that the Bible tell us about death in general,how long the wicked will be dead, when they will be allowed to live again, and about their destruction. My sincere apologies regarding Ecclesiastes 2, because it should be Ecclesiastes 9!
Ecclesiastes 9:5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecclesiastes 9:10 - Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Rev 20:5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
The Bible makes sure to tell us that after the 1000 years where the righteous are with God, then that is the first time that the wicked are allowed to live again. They are not resurrected before that. They are not already in any burning place. They are in the grave (hell). After they are resurrected, the final destruction will occur.
Rev. 20:13-15 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Notice the Bible says that "death and hell" delivered up the dead which were in them. It would not make sense if death and "burning fire" delivered up the dead for judgment. When you look at the Greek, it translates to "death and the grave" delivered up the dead for judgment. That makes sense because the wicked were dead and in the grave (hell). So they were resurrected out of the grave for the final judgment. Then death and the grave are cast into the lake of fire. That is the second death. Ultimately, the wicked are destroyed in the lake of fire, as are death and the grave (hell). That means that finally God does away with it all. No more dying. No more grave...so more burying our loved ones. (1 Cor. 15:55). That's why in Rev. 21, the Scriptures go on to say...
Rev. 21:1-4 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away
The wicked won't be burning endlessly because the Scriptures state that there will be no more sorrow, crying or pain. We also know for sure that the wicked will not burn endlessly because that would give them eternal life (regardless of whether it would be miserable or not). The Scriptures tell us the reward of the wicked is death (not endless burning in the lake of fire but ultimate death), and that only the righteous will receive eternal life.
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
It is important to note that the Bible tell us about death in general,how long the wicked will be dead, when they will be allowed to live again, and about their destruction. My sincere apologies regarding Ecclesiastes 2, because it should be Ecclesiastes 9!
Ecclesiastes 9:5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecclesiastes 9:10 - Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Rev 20:5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
The Bible makes sure to tell us that after the 1000 years where the righteous are with God, then that is the first time that the wicked are allowed to live again. They are not resurrected before that. They are not already in any burning place. They are in the grave (hell). After they are resurrected, the final destruction will occur.
Rev. 20:13-15 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Notice the Bible says that "death and hell" delivered up the dead which were in them. It would not make sense if death and "burning fire" delivered up the dead for judgment. When you look at the Greek, it translates to "death and the grave" delivered up the dead for judgment. That makes sense because the wicked were dead and in the grave (hell). So they were resurrected out of the grave for the final judgment. Then death and the grave are cast into the lake of fire. That is the second death. Ultimately, the wicked are destroyed in the lake of fire, as are death and the grave (hell). That means that finally God does away with it all. No more dying. No more grave...so more burying our loved ones. (1 Cor. 15:55). That's why in Rev. 21, the Scriptures go on to say...
Rev. 21:1-4 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away
The wicked won't be burning endlessly because the Scriptures state that there will be no more sorrow, crying or pain. We also know for sure that the wicked will not burn endlessly because that would give them eternal life (regardless of whether it would be miserable or not). The Scriptures tell us the reward of the wicked is death (not endless burning in the lake of fire but ultimate death), and that only the righteous will receive eternal life.
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
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MA2010
Well-Known Member
Thank you so much for taking time explaining that. I really appreciate it!!!
This is very eye opening for me. I had never thought of hell as not being a burning lake of fire forever.
Ecclesiastes 9 makes a lot more sense......lol. Blessings girl!!!
I'm learning from this here thread!!!
This is very eye opening for me. I had never thought of hell as not being a burning lake of fire forever.
Ecclesiastes 9 makes a lot more sense......lol. Blessings girl!!!
I'm learning from this here thread!!!
blazingthru
Well-Known Member
I asked a question at service, not the actual service but we had game night, and we were all sitting around waiting to set up the games and so forth, so I asked the question. No one could answer its a silly question yet its still on my mind. During the Flood where was Satan and his demons? My daughter said they were on the boat but my heart tells me they were forbidden to rest on that boat. but do Angels need to rest? I know its weird - I am guessing they were swimming in the ocean with the sea creatures someone said they were floating above the earth---- for over a year? I do not know why I need to know the answer I just do. Especially since God put the earth, not the shape, back to the beginning. surrounded by water. Which is the reason scientist can never tell the age the dirt and so forth has always been. It just has always been. but we know God put all of it together 6,000.00 years ago. It just kind of stuck with me.
Laela
Sidestepping the "lynch mob"
That is such a good thing....
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SND411
A True Soldier Never Dies
Aren't the devil/demons spirits? Why would they need to get on a boat?
This is very eye opening for me. I had never thought of hell as not being a burning lake of fire forever.
We have to be careful and closed to the Bible : there are some pagan beliefs in modern Christianity. Wake up, people of God !
God is Life.
Man is dust.
Man (from the dust) + life (from God) = living soul.
Man is a living soul or he is dead.
At death, the life returns to God and the body returns to the earth and becomes dust.
A body can not burn eternally, it burns until dust. The dust is just dust.
Gen. 2.7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen. 3.19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Ecc. 12.7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
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Take the time to read this, please : Ezechiel and the valley of bones.
Ez. 37.1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones, 37.2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry. 37.3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest. 37.4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. 37.5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: 37.6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
37.7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. 37.8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. 37.9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. 37.10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
37.11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. 37.12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 37.13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 37.14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
Ez. 37.1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones, 37.2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry. 37.3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest. 37.4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. 37.5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: 37.6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
37.7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. 37.8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. 37.9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. 37.10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
37.11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. 37.12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 37.13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 37.14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
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blazingthru
Well-Known Member
THey are angelic beings. They feel and live. We just can't see them. Because of our sin. But they still have wants and desires maybe not like ours but we know that they do, because of their fear of Jesus. Its interesting. I know its a silly question but I am curious.
blazingthru
Well-Known Member
I have another question which I am going to study out. At service in many churches, they ask you to come up to the altar for special annointing or I don't know I usually tune it out and I see people get up but I do not. I do not because I never got it, but a friend of mines was saying that there is no need for it and really the chruch should stop doing it. I didn't feel that strongly about it until we were reading matthew 6 Giving to the Poor and Prayer
1"Beware of practicing your righteousness before men (A)to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
2"So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they (B)may be honored by men (C)Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
3"But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
4so that your giving will be in secret; and (D)your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
5"When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to (E)stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners (F)so that they may be seen by men (G)Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
6"But you, when you pray, (H)go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and (I)your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
7"And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their (J)many words.
8"So do not be like them; for (K)your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.
So although I have not studied this out completely I think if people want to come thats up to them, I do not think the church should call or invite anyone. Because it is not a special place of prayer anywhere is a special place and its not like if you go up there God hears you better, He already knows what we need. So is it because of the sacrifice on the altar and then the prayer that people still go to the altar and pray and we do not have an altar, they just come to the front and pray. the entire church bows down.
1"Beware of practicing your righteousness before men (A)to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
2"So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they (B)may be honored by men (C)Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
3"But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
4so that your giving will be in secret; and (D)your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
5"When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to (E)stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners (F)so that they may be seen by men (G)Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
6"But you, when you pray, (H)go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and (I)your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
7"And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their (J)many words.
8"So do not be like them; for (K)your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.
So although I have not studied this out completely I think if people want to come thats up to them, I do not think the church should call or invite anyone. Because it is not a special place of prayer anywhere is a special place and its not like if you go up there God hears you better, He already knows what we need. So is it because of the sacrifice on the altar and then the prayer that people still go to the altar and pray and we do not have an altar, they just come to the front and pray. the entire church bows down.
discobiscuits
New Member
human sin has nothing to do with seeing spirits, angels or demons. angelic beings and spirits are on a different plane than corporal human beings but they can be seen by humans.
2Ki 6:17
spirits/demons/angles do not possess certain human attributes and do not swim, eat, drink, die (like humans), sleep, breathe air, or require boats to travel. the devil is an angelic being and angelic beings are different than spirits/demons which need a "house" aka body.
Mat 8:31, Mar 5:12, Luke 8:33, Mat 8:28, Mar 7:26
angels also appear in various forms (human & non-human) and in dreams.
Exd 3:2, Mat 1:20
not all angels are of the Lord
Jhn 5:4
2Ki 6:17
spirits/demons/angles do not possess certain human attributes and do not swim, eat, drink, die (like humans), sleep, breathe air, or require boats to travel. the devil is an angelic being and angelic beings are different than spirits/demons which need a "house" aka body.
Mat 8:31, Mar 5:12, Luke 8:33, Mat 8:28, Mar 7:26
angels also appear in various forms (human & non-human) and in dreams.
Exd 3:2, Mat 1:20
not all angels are of the Lord
Jhn 5:4
MA2010
Well-Known Member
Hey ladies, I have another question.
In Luke 16 scriptures state that Lazarus the begger was carried by angels to Abraham's side: 22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side.
In the same chapter the rich man was in agony requesting a taste of water: 23In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.
So these two have gone staright to heaven and hell but we will not? I have more questions on this but am currently drawing a blank.....lol.
Thanks for any help with this........
Hey ladies, I have another question.
In Luke 16 scriptures state that Lazarus the begger was carried by angels to Abraham's side: 22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side.
In the same chapter the rich man was in agony requesting a taste of water: 23In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.
So these two have gone staright to heaven and hell but we will not? I have more questions on this but am currently drawing a blank.....lol.
Thanks for any help with this........
I think this thread can help you understand, especially the second and third post.
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=403784
MA2010
Well-Known Member
MA2010
Well-Known Member
Ok ladies. I pray the Lord is keeping you and yours surrounded with love and faith. I really do appreciate the growth and knowledge I have gained from studying the word of God.
I would like to revisit not going straight to heaven when we die again.
On the cross during His crucifixion Jesus tells the criminal that TODAY he would be with him in paradise.
Luke 43: Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
This scripture, to me, is proving that there is no wait.
Paul also says "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." (2Corinthians 5:8, KJV).
So if I am absent in my body (died) then am I not with the Lord?
I would like to revisit not going straight to heaven when we die again.
On the cross during His crucifixion Jesus tells the criminal that TODAY he would be with him in paradise.
Luke 43: Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
This scripture, to me, is proving that there is no wait.
Paul also says "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." (2Corinthians 5:8, KJV).
So if I am absent in my body (died) then am I not with the Lord?
Mamita
Back to basics
hey i'm glad u're finding answers here
U have to realise we are talking about God himself in the flesh talking here, the whole time He was dwelling on earth is not the same as now. Even if He could do miracles and give a man his sight back on the spot for exemple, someone saved today with the gift of healing hands, it will take a lil more time. that is only proof that Jesus Christ God in the flesh was all powerful, not that we go after He's gone directly to heaven.
Ladies if you can be clearer than me please go ahead lool
in this case absent in the body does not mean dead, absent of the body means not minding fleshly things, but being spiritually oriented. We crucify flesh down here while we're alive to be more spiritually powerful and present with God. that does not mean dead. We're also present with God when He is present IN us, dwelling inside, the Holy Ghost, and the only way is to leave flesh behind.
I hope it helps
U have to realise we are talking about God himself in the flesh talking here, the whole time He was dwelling on earth is not the same as now. Even if He could do miracles and give a man his sight back on the spot for exemple, someone saved today with the gift of healing hands, it will take a lil more time. that is only proof that Jesus Christ God in the flesh was all powerful, not that we go after He's gone directly to heaven.
Ladies if you can be clearer than me please go ahead lool
in this case absent in the body does not mean dead, absent of the body means not minding fleshly things, but being spiritually oriented. We crucify flesh down here while we're alive to be more spiritually powerful and present with God. that does not mean dead. We're also present with God when He is present IN us, dwelling inside, the Holy Ghost, and the only way is to leave flesh behind.
I hope it helps
