Non-Mainstream Christianity

[Crown]

Mat. 1.20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Lu. 1.34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 1.35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

These two statements of yours made me confused:
Can you explain what you mean by those statements? I've never seen the Holy Spirit referred to as the father of the Son. I've only seen The Father as the father of the Son...

And I also wonder if The Son and The Holy Spirit dwells in believers, what about The Father? Does The Father dwell in believers as well?

And what is the difference between The Council of Nicea's doctrine of Trinity and the Bible's concept of Trinity? Wouldn't they be the same since the Council of Nicea are the ones who canonized the Bible anyway?

The Trinity is a manmade concept.
There is NO Bible’s concept of Trinity!!!

The Father is SPIRIT and ONE.
The Holy Spirit is the expressed (manifested) Spirit of the Father.
The Son is the expressed (manifested) Image (in a body) of the Father.

Yes, the Father is greater than His expression/manifestation (not 1 god with 3 heads!!!).

Is. 9.6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

The apostles understood very well the commandment in Mat. 28 :
Mat. 28.18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 28.19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost…

And, filled with the Holy Spirit, they executed it :
Act. 2.37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 2.38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Poohbear]

Mat. 1.20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Lu. 1.34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 1.35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.





The Trinity is a manmade concept.
There is NO Bible’s concept of Trinity!!!

The Father is SPIRIT and ONE.
The Holy Spirit is the expressed (manifested) Spirit of the Father.
The Son is the expressed (manifested) Image (in flesh) of the Father.

Yes, the Father is greater than His expression/manifestation (not 1 god with 3 heads!!!).

Is. 9.6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

The apostles understood very well the commandment in Mat. 28 :
Mat. 28.18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 28.19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost…

And, filled with the Holy Spirit, they executed it :
Act. 2.37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 2.38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Thanks for your explanation, Crown.

I know Trinity is a man-made concept/doctrine and I know God is just ONE God, not 3 god heads.

So are you saying that The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost are all 3 expressions/manifestations of God? Not 3 different gods, correct? If so, then we are on the same page and this is is how I view God.

And a question about baptizing in the name of _____

There are Christians hung up over this issue as well. Some say to baptize in the name of Jesus Christ. Some say to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Which one? The Bible states both. Or is Jesus Christ considered "the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost"?

 

[makeupgirl]

The trinity does in fact exist among the Godhead and the mark of the trinity is all over the bible. God in 3 persons, blessed trinity. 3 in 1. 3 different ministries, same God. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.

God the Father's ministry was in the OT. Jesus' ministry is in the gospels of Matt, Luke, Mark, and John. In fact, John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word (God the Father), and the Word was with God (God the Holy Spirit), and the Word was God (God the Son). In fact, John's gospel is letting us know that Jesus is God, in the flesh. In John, Jesus also explained that he is going to prepare a place for us and will come back to receive us unto himself (John 14:2-3). In this same chapter, Jesus advise the disciples that he is sending the Comforter.

After Jesus ascended to Heaven to be at the right hand of the Father, 10 days later the Holy Spirit came and his ministry is still ongoing.

Also, the hand of the trinity is in the very beginning, Gen 1-3 In the beginning, God (God the Father) created the heavens and the earths. And the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep and the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) moved upon the face of the waters. And God said (Jesus aka God the Son, the Word) , let there be light and there was light.

Another part, Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image. (noticed words us, our, which of course would mean, more than one is working here) This is not the first time or the last time either.

The tower of babel - Gen 11:7

Jesus Baptism - Matt 3:16-17

Another point - 1 John 5: 6-9 vs. 7 especially " For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. ***If this verse doesn't confirmed that the trinity is indeed not man made, I don't know what else to point out.

There are other verses too. But the point is, even though the word trinity is in the bible, the mark of the trinity is all over. If you don't believe it, just ask the Holy Spirit for confirmation and for understanding to lead you to his truth.

I think that topics like the trinity, the rapture (pre vs mid or post rapture), etc are always going to topics that will be debated until God calls his children home, then will be able to ask for real. But until then, as for me, I believe in the trinity of God and I believe that we are pre-tribulation rapture. OK back to work.

 

[Crown]

There is a subtle difference : I don’t believe in what is called Jesus only.
The Father is revealed in Jesus. In other words, Jesus is the revelation of the Father. But the Father is not a revelation of Jesus.
The Father is not an expression/manifestation : HE IS GOD. He reveals Himself to deal with mankind as Creator/Savior/Redeemer/Comforter.....

Thanks for your explanation, Crown.

I know Trinity is a man-made concept/doctrine and I know God is just ONE God, not 3 god heads.

So are you saying that The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost are all 3 expressions/manifestations of God?

Not 3 different gods, correct? Correct! If so, then we are on the same page and this is is how I view God.

And a question about baptizing in the name of _____

There are Christians hung up over this issue as well. Some say to baptize in the name of Jesus Christ. Some say to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Which one? The Bible states both. Or is Jesus Christ considered "the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost"?

The apostles did exactly what was ordered in Mat. 28:19.
It is not an option : they baptize in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit – Father, Son, Holy Spirit are not names - this is ONE Name (not 3) for the Father/Son/Holy Spirit : they understood what was the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit : This Name given for salvation.
Do a search with baptize and you’ll see all were made in the name of Jesus Christ, the Lord Jesus, the Lord, Christ (Messiah).

 

[Poohbear]

Thanks Crown for breaking it all down. Makes more sense!

 

[divya]

Since this was bumped....some of these opinions are definitely mainstream christianity.

My church is mainstream...but then again...it's, well, you know...from which you all derive. But #1...persevere until the end...reason there is confession, #2 (Jewish tradition...there are more than just one meaning/sides to it, many levels of meaning), #4 ...many orthodox/catholic do not eat pork around the world and we don't believe the 10 Commandments are obsolete...linking to confession, #5...definitely mainstream because you can't get to heaven solely by believing you must be good...you actually have to follow the path. That's why we have confession. And of course, nobody says, "are you saved?" Shrugs.

So, it depends upon whom you ask. Most people don't think of catholicism and orthodoxy to be mainstream when they are they largest and original church (yes, I know the first century church...referring to the eucharist and it's true meaning which is what Christ Himself instituted and it's been unchanged eversince).

Maybe my post should be clarified further. Catholicism and orthodoxy are definitely mainstream in my belief, as it is the largest. Ok here goes...

#1 The one saved always saved pervades much of Christianity, making it a mainstream belief.
#2 As stated, is not held by Catholicism nor most of Christianity, making it non-mainstream.
#3 The vast majority of Christianity recognizes 9, not 10 Commandments in practice. They do not keep the seventh-day Sabbath.
#4 Most of Christianity believes Old Testament laws are generally not applicable. The health laws do not encompass only pork. It reaches beyond that.
#5 Most Christian branches do not teaches that Muslims, Hindus and others can be saved. It is non-mainstream to believe otherwise.

Hopefully that makes the post a little clearer now.

 

[Poohbear]

Over the past few months, I feel like God is revealing to me something different than what mainstream Christianity teaches and believes. When I read the Bible, I am finding that holiness is something that so many "Christians" are putting at the bottom of their priorities for Christian living. So many Christians think as long as you believe in Jesus, you are saved no matter what you do. I just can't see that. I feel like believing requires action, not just empty words. If you truly believe Jesus died on the cross for your sins, you would not yield to sin any longer. So many Christians say "once saved, always saved" and God forgives us over and over and over for sin. Really? It doesn't make sense when God speaks strongly against sin in the Bible. Then people want to make excuses for their sin by saying "Christians don't continue to sin" or "Christians sin less than before" or "Christians feel remorse for their sins" or "Christians don't willfully sin"... well how can you NOT willfully sin when you have a clear full knowledge of what you're doing is wrong? Willfull sin is when you KNOW it's wrong and do it anyway. It would be different if you did not know it was wrong, but once it's revealed to you as being wrong, you should stop if you truly believe in Jesus. I know what I'm saying is not mainstream, and it's something I've mentioned before in the Christian forum so many times. It's just been bothering me. Otherwise, if living righteous and holy isn't important for being saved, then I guess we all going to Heaven to live with God, believer or not, sinner or not.

 

[Laela]

Pooh, this is a timely Word. It is possible to live a life free of sin, the only way being to always be in God's Presence (Psalms 91:1) This puts us in a position to always be able to 'resist temptation' because we are in tuned with the Holy Spirit. If we don't resist, we CHOOSE to sin and disobey the Holy Spirit...you're right. I've learned the worse deception is self-deception, so it's possible sinners are more honest than Believers in this capacity. [ I minister to myself here ]

Let me also repeat this: The Blood of Jesus is not for us to use as an excuse to cover up sin but rather the place we can exist, to live a sin-free life. ... that's the Secret Place of the Most High, where sin cannot exist! IOW, the Blood of Jesus had paved the way for holiness. I see that you miss this when I stated it the first time, but that's OK.

Here's a great article that I find to be nothing but Truth!

A Call to Holiness

Over the past few months, I feel like God is revealing to me something different than what mainstream Christianity teaches and believes. When I read the Bible, I am finding that holiness is something that so many "Christians" are putting at the bottom of their priorities for Christian living. So many Christians think as long as you believe in Jesus, you are saved no matter what you do. I just can't see that. I feel like believing requires action, not just empty words. If you truly believe Jesus died on the cross for your sins, you would not yield to sin any longer. So many Christians say "once saved, always saved" and God forgives us over and over and over for sin. Really? It doesn't make sense when God speaks strongly against sin in the Bible. Then people want to make excuses for their sin by saying "Christians don't continue to sin" or "Christians sin less than before" or "Christians feel remorse for their sins" or "Christians don't willfully sin"... well how can you NOT willfully sin when you have a clear full knowledge of what you're doing is wrong? Willfull sin is when you KNOW it's wrong and do it anyway. It would be different if you did not know it was wrong, but once it's revealed to you as being wrong, you should stop if you truly believe in Jesus. I know what I'm saying is not mainstream, and it's something I've mentioned before in the Christian forum so many times. It's just been bothering me. Otherwise, if living righteous and holy isn't important for being saved, then I guess we all going to Heaven to live with God, believer or not, sinner or not.

 

[Poohbear]

Pooh, this is a timely Word. It is possible to live a life free of sin, the only way being to always be in God's Presence (Psalms 91:1) This puts us in a position to always be able to 'resist temptation' because we are in tuned with the Holy Spirit. If we don't resist, we CHOOSE to sin and disobey the Holy Spirit...you're right. I've learned the worse deception is self-deception, so it's possible sinners are more honest than Believers in this capacity. [ I minister to myself here ]

Let me also repeat this: The Blood of Jesus is not for us to use as an excuse to cover up sin but rather the place we can exist, to live a sin-free life. ... that's the Secret Place of the Most High, where sin cannot exist! IOW, the Blood of Jesus had paved the way for holiness. I see that you miss this when I stated it the first time, but that's OK.

Here's a great article that I find to be nothing but Truth!

A Call to Holiness

Thanks for understanding.

The only thing I am worried about is that I still commit sin. I worry about my salvation, and I wonder if I truly believe in Jesus for taking away my sins. From reading my Bible, it appears that I don't and that I may have had a false conversion. I think a lot of this has to do with what I have been taught over the years in the Baptist church. I may be seen as a relatively good person to the people in this world, but that's not good enough in God's sight. With saying this, I can see myself living without committing sin in the near future. I just need to keep diving into his Word and rightly divide what's right and what's wrong.

Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Luke 1:37
For with God nothing shall be impossible.

Luke 18:27
And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

1 Corinthians 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

 

[blazingthru]

Blazingthru, are you saying the Father has changed the name Jacob for Israel after Jacob knew his son Joseph was alive? Is it in another book?
When reading the Scriptures, the name has been changed many years before the episode of Joseph in Egypt.

Gen. 32.24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. 32.25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. 32.26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. 32.27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. 32.28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

I read Israel means :
"God wrestler", "He has striven with God (El)" or "He has been saved by God"... or what is written in Gen. 32:28

No I am not saying that. He was given his name when he wrestle with the Angel yes, but he didn't accept the name in his heart, he was like a dead man inside his heart, he never got over the lost of Joseph. He wasn't living up to the name that the Lord had given him.

 

[Crown]

No I am not saying that. He was given his name when he wrestle with the Angel yes, but he didn't accept the name in his heart, he was like a dead man inside his heart, he never got over the lost of Joseph. He wasn't living up to the name that the Lord had given him.

Thanks Blazingthru to letting me know this interpretation! It's new for me.
I understand that Jacob was affected by the lost of Joseph.
What precisely makes you think that he did not accept the name Israel in is heart (quotes in the Bible please, I like to study)?

 

[HomesteaderDreams]

For me, He is not one God with 3 heads or 3 persons.
He is the same One and Eternal : YHUH (YHWH)
He is Spirit, the Father.
The Holy Spirit is not a person : He is the Spirit of God in action.
The Father is not a person, He is Spirit, eternal, immortal and invisible.
1Tim. 1 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

The Father(The invisible Spirit) made a flesh (human body), dwells in it to save us : the Son who reveals the Father.
The Father is greater because the Son is the Spirit of the Father in a human body.
The Son is the only person who reveals the Father because His Spirit dwells fully in Him.
Col. 1 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
1Tim.2 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus

The set apart Spirit (Holy Spirit or Ruach HaKodesh) is the Spirit of the Father in the Son, and He knows our human weakness.
Jn. 14 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

Rom. 8 26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.


*If the Father is a person and the Holy Spirit is another person, the Son has 2 personal fathers!!!
Lu. 35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

*The Son is a person. If the Holy Spirit is another person, those who believe in the Son have 2 persons in them!!!
Jn. 14 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

Jn. 20 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

Shalum Acuthy. Finally, someone on LHCF who uses YHUH's name. Tudah for this truth.

 

[disgtgyal]

Subbing, interesting read...

 

[Shimmie]

Shalum Acuthy.

Finally, someone on LHCF who uses YHUH's name. Tudah for this truth.

hisboo911...



Can you share what you mean by the comment bolded above? Thanks in advance.

 

[JaneBond007]

^^^Messianic evangelical christianity...

YHWH the tetragrammation of His Name that is not to be pronounced "yod, hey, vav, hey." "tudah for this truth" meaning, "todah" or "thank you."

On an interesting note, some of out tribes call Him "Ye-ho-wah." That's pretty interesting and it's ancient.