"Naturals > Relaxed." Thoughts?

[SelahOco]

If she prefers to be relax, that's her choice. Ease of styling, more options for her - she made a decision that she obviously likes, so there's no problem. But the things a relaxed person can do, so can a natural, so the statement "I couldn't do anything with my natural hair," is a bit... superficial (not sure if that's the word I'm looking for)? It may take a little bit more work, but you can definitely do it. But like I said, if being relaxed is easy for her and she likes it, then I love it.

Robo - I'm not picking on you. But can you imagine if you'd said that to her face? It's almost of tone of "you failed to try hard enough" or "you were to lazy to be natural" or "relaxing is the easy way out" all followed by "if that's your choice, then fine!"

I'm not saying that you're wrong. I agree w/ most of what you said, but this is the attitude of superiority that she's kind of referring to. It used to be that people felt bad for being natural. But now naturals are so aware and proud, that we can make relaxed girls feel bad for making a decision that is (according to some of our tones) a socially acceptable, lazy styling option.

Again, I'm not saying that you're wrong (or that you were in fact judging her), but there is an awareness that comes off as judgement.

I was natural and having a hard time dealing w/ my hair. I transitioned in braids - so by the time I was ready to wear my hair out, I had a head full of natural, thick, 4a/b hair and I was overwhellmed. I'd had a relaxer since I was like 7 - so my natural hair was alien to me.

I just didn't know how to care for it, but I felt a lot of judgement from naturals who'd learned to care for their hair. It was like a wasn't "on they level" or like I was self hating or something. If I said, "natural hair is hard to comb" She'd roll her eyes and make some smart comment "speak for yourself."

Well, that didn't make me feel better - and it didn't help the situation. Now, with experience, I no longer think natural hair is hard to comb - but that's based on experience. Her tone and willingness to help w/o getting so irritated would have endeared me to her. Instead, I think she's a hair snob

I think when the girl said "natural hair is hard to style" something in you said "oh no it's not!!! STOP SPREADING THOSE LIES." And I don't blame you. There's too many stigma that come w/ being natural to have even more false information floating out there.

I don't know what the answer is, but I could see how someone might take your position as a little judgmental - and hers as a little ignorant. Which is the cycle, I think, that she was complaining about in the first place.

 

[jamaraa]

It depends on the specific head of hair. Sometimes natural hair IS difficult to deal w/. It has challenges far different than relaxed hair and people either find they can eventurally deal w/ it in it's unaltered state OR they modify it (from flat irons-relaxers). That's life...shrug.

 

[La Colocha]

It depends on the specific head of hair. Sometimes natural hair IS difficult to deal w/. It has challenges far different than relaxed hair and people either find they can eventurally deal w/ it in it's unaltered state OR they modify it (from flat irons-relaxers). That's life...shrug.

To the bolded i agree with you.And sometimes all hair is hard to deal with. If it wasn't for a friend turning me on to youtube and then me finding this site i would not know how to deal with my natural hair. Many women who are natural and relaxed never learned how to take care of thier hair properly in its natural or relaxed state. I was not educated on taking care of my relaxed hair which resulted in damaged hair and a damaged scalp. Like the saying goes when you know better you do better and alot of women are still in the dark about taking care of thier hair. And to the op i have not seen what you are talking about irl. Online yes but in irl no.

 

[rosalindb]

Question: Exactly what is it that makes some relaxed heads think that natural heads think that, as people, they are better?

What is it that some naturals DO/SAY to make relaxed heads feel like that?[/QUOTE]
Sometimes nothing and sometimes the simplest remark can be miscontrued. Also reading messages on a hair board is completely different to having a face to face conversation as your facial expressions, tone of your voice adds to much more to the conversation. Someone can post something but everyone has a different view as to what that person was trying to say.

 

[robot.]

Oco's awesome response here

Thanks for this - now that you say it, I can see how it's easy to come off as snotty. Honestly, I don't much care if she relaxed her hair for ease of styling. I have a twa and my hair is already so thick, it frustrates me some time, so I can imagine how it would be for a natural with longer hair! We pick and choose our own battles, and being relaxed was best for her.

I don't have a problem with that, but I do wish she'd been open to exploring more options as a natural simply because long-term relaxer use might not be beneficial to her. I don't want to come off as judgmental and superior when I'd really only like to genuinely help. I can see it's a delicate balance.

 

[that_1_grrrl]

See, that's what I think the biggest problem is on this forum. Everyone is quick to think that X meant Y when a person wasn't even trying to say all that.

Sometimes nothing and sometimes the simplest remark can be miscontrued. Also reading messages on a hair board is completely different to having a face to face conversation as your facial expressions, tone of your voice adds to much more to the conversation. Someone can post something but everyone has a different view as to what that person was trying to say.

 

[Tafa01]

We cant Add Subtract or Multiply the hairs on our head, yet we let it divide

To my natural sistah's (from your relaxed sistah)

So, you think im tryin to conform? when for all ive ever known is
this to be the norm. you say im trying to be something that im not, when my
hair will never make who i am whether it's straight, kinky, or bought , you
cut your eyes at me ova my 'do when you were once in the very same shoes. so i
apply this creamy stuff to make my hair straight, but you act is if your
kinks gave you a pass through heaven's gate? why do you put me up under this kind of pressure? and act as though because you now have naps you are now up
to measure? you say you are so enlightened, but it seems to me as though
you just might be somewhat frightened. are you scared you will face the
temptation to straighten out the kinks again? do you project that fear unto me
distorted and full of disdain? i wish i could show you that just because my
hair is straight doesnt mean i cant relate to your pain. you say my ignorance
runs deep, as though just because my hair is straight i must have no sense, my sistah have you forgotten when you were on this side of the fence? you look
your nose down on me now that you have naps growing freely from your head, when really you should be concerned about the kinks in your heart instead.

To my relaxed sistah's (from your natural sistah)

So you say you can relate to my pain? no i dont think you can, not
till you have worn an all natural mane. you see, there is no pain like this,
when your very own people ignorantly diss what our hair really is. yes i feel
enlightened and free to be me, and yes , maybe i am a little
frightened of what my nappy experience will be. you see, i feel the pressure every single day , to once again make my hair lay down, i just dont want to give in and lose this freedom that i have found. no my naps wont give me ticket through heavens gate, but i have a new love for what God made me instead of living with self hate. I no longer damage and abuse the hair God gave me just to fit in, im no longer in bondage to white people's greatest sin. The promotion of self hate within us to oppress and degrade us, as though
we are not acceptable the way the creator made us. I may come off as though i
think im better than you, but my sistah that is so not true, it's about so
much more than just your 'do. Maybe i dont say it right, but really we are
all in the same fight and all i want is to share my insight. your acting as
though your so righteous because you feel slighted, maybe you as well are
somewhat frightened. Why do my naps cause you distress? when you have the same thing coming from your head under that chemical mess? you fit in with those you choose cause your hair looks like theirs, and turn your back on me
when im your real reflection, you can straighten your naps all you want to,
but its the kinks in your heart that need inspection.


To all sistah's (from God)

I count the hairs on all of my children's heads. My word does not say
"I count the hair on a relaxed head" nor does my word say " I only
count the hairs of a natural head" It is I that count the hair on my children's heads. Do not make it your job to count the hair on your sister's head! It is I that count them and it is I that formed them! YOU CANNOT ADD THEM, NOR SUBTRACT THEM, NOR MULTIPLY THEM , BUT YOU LET THEM DIVIDE YOU! i desire the peace, happiness and joy in the hearts of all my children and this strife amongst you saddens me greatly. for it is my purpose for you to unite and walk in love notdivision. I say unto you before you check your hair in the mirror to see whether it is perfectly straight or perfectly natural , i tell you to to check to see if your heart is perfectly straight AND natural before me first. and before you look at the condtion and state of the hair of your sister, I tell you to look at the condtion and state of your own heart first. for the hair on on your head and the head of you sister's is but a small matter in my sight.

Do not bother to straighten your hair to fit into this world or to be
accepted by it , while your heart is not straightened out and you dont accept
your very own sister in love...I say to you , you will surely then not fit in
with me, nor shall you be accepted by me, nor fullfill my purpose for you. what you call the path of least resistance, i call the path of fools, when you resist walking in love for others.

Do not bother to wear your hair natural and untainted with chemicals
as you have said in your heart "to be as i made you" and not walk in love
towards your very own sister , then i say to you, it is then that your heart
shall surely be tainted in my sight, and you will then surely not "be as i
made you" what you call the path of enlightenment i call the path of darkness, if you are not enlightened enough to walk in love for others.

I know the pain of all of your hearts and i know all the tears shed by
all of my children and all the pain inflicted on you and the division that
has been caused amongst you, surely i say unto you those people will be held
accoutable for every action and deed before me. but you will not be
able to come before me and say "Lord but my sister did not love me due to the
chemical or lack of a chemical in my hair, and Lord this is why did not walk in love towards her in return" for i tell you she will be held accountable for
herself and you will have your own accountability unto me.


Title:
We cant add, subtract or mulitply the hairs on our head, yet we let it
divide us

written by, . Iris on 10/25/03

I remember this poem!!! I was member of your yahoo group when I first went natural in 2002!

 

[Junebug D]

To the bolded i agree with you.And sometimes all hair is hard to deal with.

And sometimes it's just a person's skill level, their level of patience, or just one of the multitude of factors in that person's life. Maybe it's simply just not worth it in that person's eyes. If she's never had a problem with relaxers, relaxer burns, hair falling out or anything... maybe it just isn't worth it to her.

As for all this other stuff: one choice being better, one group being mentally superior to the other, one group not loving themselves (and you don't love god, according to some)... whatever. To me, true freedom from mental hair bondage is feeling & being free to do whatever the heck you want with it and not caring what other people think about it. It's knowing you have choices, and not being afraid to exercise those choices. You can be in bondage to your natural hair just as much as you can be in bondage to your relaxed hair. And you can be in bondage to length as much as you can be in bondage to texture.

Freedom is having relaxed hair and feeling your new growth, knowing that your natural hair is only a cut away, and you're totally free to go there and back again on a whim.

Freedom is having natural hair and knowing that it is just hair that you can grow, chop, color, relax, loc, braid, weave, and do whatever the heck just because it's what you want to do... and actually doing it when you want to, no concern for the peanut gallery.

But I do feel that you have to know your natural self to have true freedom. But there's no way you can look at someone's hair in this moment and judge whether or not they are there based on just that alone. It's just not that simple. I'd even argue that Oprah is freer than some of her nazi-natural detractors.

 

[MizzBrown]

I think its funny to read the natural vs. relaxed debates and I do pay attention to who is saying what and take note of their hair type. You put hair type in the mix and it changes up a lot.

It might be really easy for a type 3 to tell someone that they are lazy and need to learn how to manage their natural hair and be more creative. Tell that to a C-nap and see if you dont get the side-eye.

Tell that to someone who has Waistlength Relaxed hair that they need to cut off thier lifetime of growth and start over.

 

[rosalindb]

I was in a computer lab earlier this week and heard two girls talking. I didn't want to eavesdrop, but it's a small space and they were the only ones in there. I was minding my own when they started talking, rather heatedly, about naturals and their "attitude."

They were saying things like, "I don't need to be natural to be "black power." I don't hate myself if I get a perm," which I didn't really care about, because I already knew alladat. It was when one of them said, "They (naturals) think they are better than you because their hair is natural."

One girl went onto say she was relaxed because she got tired of her natural hair (she was a healthy looking SL and her friend was weaved up). But this girl also said that she couldn't do much with her natural hair (lies!), so she most likely got tired of her hair because of her ignorance towards all the different styles naturals can achieve.

It surprised me a little because I'd never experienced that attitude before, natural or relaxed. I can understand where she's coming from - I think my natural hair is the business on all levels, but I never thought of it as thinking my hair is better than someone else's, it's always been about me and my head.

But I also think it goes both ways. I'm sure there are some relaxed women out there who think they are better because they're relaxed. They may think natural hair is unattractive, "nappy," too "ethnic," etc.

Just something I thought was interesting. What do you think? Have you ever experienced "attitude"?

I posted this on another thread.

SOME women who relax their hair just assume that naturals will have an issue with this and the same happens the other way around.

A lady who works in the same building as me suffered severe breakage from a new relaxer and mentioned to the IT guy that she was going natural. He told her that I had been natural for years and just used natural products. He spoke to me and gave her my extension number. I met her in reception and chatted to her and she said that she never wanted to perm her hair again. The next day I gave her samples of the products I used and over the next year gave her some general advice when she asked and I made recommendations such as trying Aubrey Organics GBP, pre-pooing, moisturising & sealing etc and her hair really recovered.

We became good friends and then after 14 months she sent me a text "You are going to hate me but I really want to relax my hair"

I sent her a text back "Why would I hate you? Some of my closest friends have relaxed their hair after being natural for several years I have not shot them yet. Relaxing is a personal choice". Her hair is now relaxed and we are still good friends, meet up for lunch or after work for dinner. She still asks me for hair advice and still uses the products that I originally recommended.

Another lady who worked in the office downstairs had been natural for 17 years. I would see her practically every day as we would pass by each other’s office and say hi and stop to chat.

I had not seen her for a few days and one day I caught her trying to creep past my office without being seen or heard.

I noticed her and just said hi and she looked really nervous and would not meet my eyes. I then noticed that she had relaxed her hair. I said “Oh you relaxed your hair – it looks really nice” She said that she was shocked that I complimented her and said that she had been avoiding me all week as she was scared that she was going to bump into me as I wear my hair natural and also use natural products.

I honestly do not care if someone relaxes their hair or not. It is their choice not mine

 

[LadyRaider]

Right now, the way I have seen things - people with natural hair go out of their way to look cute. The same with those with braids and probably weaves.

I've seen more girls with relaxed hair looking terrible... stiff dull hair, unattractive ends... no style (just hanging there, no barrettes or headbands, etc.)

So sometimes I think that the girl who goes natural (or pays for braids and weaves) is someone who is really committed to her hair.

Now the thing is, the people on the internet talking about hair are exceptional, so of course the relaxed heads here are on point and look great.

But I think in the real world, a lot of the naturals are similar to people who work out and eat right religiously. That might explain some of their attitude.

 

[Poranges]

This stuff goes both ways. Its naturals and relaxed people. The only solution is for people to be happy with themselves, mind their business, and stop trying to save the other hair group. At the end of the day, yes it is my crown of glory and I take pride in caring for it but...its just hair. If I need to do something with my hair whether it involves relaxing, going natural etc etc...to prove something to the world,then I think I need to look deeper inside of myself and really see what the problem is. I think hair can be beautiful both ways and be jacked up both ways. The owner, whether relaxed or natural can also have both bad and good attitudes.

Some naturals think they are enlightened and are better and love themselves more and aren't conforming to European standards, I call BS...its hair, relaxing your hair isn't the only way to conform or whatever else people say, just be natural, have fun with it and mind your business.

Some relaxed women think that they're more attractive because they relax and men are more attracted to them, and some just downright hate natural hair, my answer would be, just be relaxed, have fun with it, don't denounce or try to change anybody AKA minding your own business.

These are just examples of the scenarios, I've seen it on here and IRL. Mind your business people, its not your hair, focus on your own hair and move on, do NOT generalize a group of people, its impossible.

My 2 cents.

 

[shocol]

And sometimes it's just a person's skill level, their level of patience, or just one of the multitude of factors in that person's life. Maybe it's simply just not worth it in that person's eyes. If she's never had a problem with relaxers, relaxer burns, hair falling out or anything... maybe it just isn't worth it to her.

As for all this other stuff: one choice being better, one group being mentally superior to the other, one group not loving themselves (and you don't love god, according to some)... whatever. To me, true freedomis feeling & being free to do whatever the heck you want with it and not caring what other people think about it.It's knowing you have choices, and not being afraid to exercise those choices. You can be in bondage to your natural hair just as much as you can be in bondage to your relaxed hair. And you can be in bondage to length as much as you can be in bondage to texture. from mental hair bondage

Freedom is having relaxed hair and feeling your new growth, knowing that your natural hair is only a cut away, and you're totally free to go there and back again on a whim.

Freedom is having natural hair and knowing that it is just hair that you can grow, chop, color, relax, loc, braid, weave, and do whatever the heck just because it's what you want to do... and actually doing it when you want to, no concern for the peanut gallery.

But I do feel that you have to know your natural self to have true freedom. But there's no way you can look at someone's hair in this moment and judge whether or not they are there based on just that alone. It's just not that simple. I'd even argue that Oprah is freer than some of her nazi-natural detractors.

 

[MyAngelEyez~C~U]

Title:
We cant add, subtract or mulitply the hairs on our head, yet we let it
divide us

written by, . Iris on 10/25/03

Beautiful poem Iris/Irresistible!

It speaks volumes of truth, and truly makes a valid point within this thread. Thank you!

 

[Ramya]

I've noticed that it's the relaxed heads that come up to me (a natural) and start conversations about why they can't go natural when I don't care about their hair or what state it's in. They elevate my hair in their minds assuming that I'm a natural Nazi. They turn me into a brave woman and praise my "hair choice." I'm not going to then turn around and praise their "choice" to be relaxed when it sounds like they didn't choose to be relaxed at all, they feel they have to be relaxed.

 

[jamaraa]

To the bolded i agree with you.And sometimes all hair is hard to deal with. If it wasn't for a friend turning me on to youtube and then me finding this site i would not know how to deal with my natural hair. Many women who are natural and relaxed never learned how to take care of thier hair properly in its natural or relaxed state. I was not educated on taking care of my relaxed hair which resulted in damaged hair and a damaged scalp. Like the saying goes when you know better you do better and alot of women are still in the dark about taking care of thier hair. And to the op i have not seen what you are talking about irl. Online yes but in irl no.

I'm so glad you found places where you could learn about how to take care of your hair for it to reach it's full potential in all ways. I'm glad you're using it too rather than just pooh poohing us as either have 1) weaves 2) the elusive "good hair" nono:. So many women seem to miss out cuz they have these prejudices (new members constantly tell us they thought either one or both before they took the leap and their friends/families STILL think it) I hope that success for every BW who seeks it. It's great to know these tutorials, vids, and posts actually help real people! After all, you can't see 'em seein' you!

This is all so true....so few BW know anything about their hair in whatever state. Much is "trial and error" w/ far more error for most! Many more relaxed heads could look like Sylver2 and Ballerina Bun and many more natural heads coul look like Mwedzi and Iris if they only knew.

If BW could just lay off that "black gel" we'd make a HUGE leap forward! (No, I'm NOT kidding)

 

[jamaraa]

I've noticed that it's the relaxed heads that come up to me (a natural) and start conversations about why they can't go natural when I don't care about their hair or what state it's in. They elevate my hair in their minds assuming that I'm a natural Nazi. They turn me into a brave woman and praise my "hair choice." I'm not going to then turn around and praise their "choice" to be relaxed when it sounds like they didn't choose to be relaxed at all, they feel they have to be relaxed.

I hate this too...keenly! I think I know why they do it tho. Many times I think people stereotype all naturals as being "down w/ the cause" and keeping up the late 60s-late 70s "struggle". ...the last holdouts of the dream. Of course, some of us are, but some of us also just prefer our hair our way. shurg. Not all of us possess the "revert-a-laxer" stare, they seem to fear.

All that "bravery" nonesense seems to be coming from that stereotype. It always made me feel as if they looked at me as some throw back to the days of dashkis and fist picks! erplexed It's almost like were some living dinasaur or something. It's like you're that left over old hippie surrounded by yuppies! We're the VW love bus to their BMW! We're the "crying Indian" to their litterbug. We're like the Amish for White folks.

I think I resent the fossil stuff more than the "get straight" condescension. Maybe that's just me...I'm superficial!

 

[goodmorningruby]

Ugh....

Happy Halloween!

 

[jamaraa]

In real life, the so called Natural/Naptural/Nappy Nazi is rather rare tho. For starters, naturals are rather rare. Most of them that exist do so on college campuses and are under 25....it's rare to find someone 30+ that into minding other folks' biz. They're too busy trying to pay their bills, take care of their kids, and keep a job.

OK....the above excludes the internet!

 

[Irresistible]

I hate this too...keenly! I think I know why they do it tho. Many times I think people stereotype all naturals as being "down w/ the cause" and keeping up the late 60s-late 70s "struggle". ...the last holdouts of the dream. Of course, some of us are, but some of us also just prefer our hair our way. shurg. Not all of us possess the "revert-a-laxer" stare, they seem to fear.

All that "bravery" nonesense seems to be coming from that stereotype. It always made me feel as if they looked at me as some throw back to the days of dashkis and fist picks! erplexed It's almost like were some living dinasaur or something. It's like you're that left over old hippie surrounded by yuppies! We're the VW love bus to their BMW! We're the "crying Indian" to their litterbug. We're like the Amish for White folks.

I think I resent the fossil stuff more than the "get straight" condescension. Maybe that's just me...I'm superficial!

girl ur crackin me up!