Mega Mess and I'm Miffed!
- Thread starter Shimmie
- Start date
pebbles
New Member
Shimmie said:You know what Ladies,
This mess hits home with me. Sexual sin was int the leadship of my first Church. I was there for about 18 years and I could never understand, why? Event though I know 'why'? I could never understand 'why?'
The Holy Spirit protected me from it for years. I never 'knew' what was going on. God was teaching me His word and training me in the Spirit and for me to know about the sin that was going on would have deterred my growth in the Lord. God wanted to develop the work that He had begun in me and wasn't going to waste the years that He had put into my spiritual growth.
But when I found out....I was ready. For the Holy Spirit had been preparing me all along little by little until it was time for me to know the truth and time for Him to move me further in Him in a different ministry.
The things that happen to keep the love of Jesus hidden from others. This mess is so sad.....
That's why I'm so angry. Because there are those who need the Lord and they don't know who they can trust anymore to be a witness and mentor to them.
I just want to 'slap' him. Each time I see Ted Haggard on TV, I just want to 'slap' him. He knew better. He's not stupid!!! C'mon, who is he fooling about being tempted? Step down from the git-go and get delivered.
But check this out: The news report says that the man who told, failed a lie detector test. It says that his answers were not consistant. Sex or no sex, Ted Haggard knew better. He knew what not to do.
Anyhooo.....guess what ladies? I love you...
LOL!! Shimmie, I know this isn't funny, but I can just see little you walking up to Haggard and slapping him with all your might! What a funny thought!
Seriously, Isn't God good the way He protects us from certain things in order for us to grow more? I love that!! Only God could be God! How amazing is He?!
pebbles
New Member
firecracker said:I feel you Shimmer. Your a comfort and blessing to know. We have to continue putting faith in God even when things and actions of the leaders we trust go astray. When I first heard this I was like wow man. I refused to listen after the initial shock. I didn't want to get totally upset nor hear his excuses.erplexed
Amen!! That's really what we have to do. Look to the Father, and let the rest of the mess go. I tell you, the enemy does this to shake certain people out of the church and out of their position with Christ. Those who fall away were never His to begin with. I'm just praising God that there are those who can see this entire mess for what it really is! Praise Him!!
B
Bublnbrnsuga
Guest
Miz Jackson said:
This is why the Bible instructs us not to put our faith in man, but in God.
pebbles said:LOL!! Shimmie, I know this isn't funny, but I can just see little you walking up to Haggard and slapping him with all your might! What a funny thought!Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
This man has a beautiful wife and family and while I don't know them or their marriage, he is still without excuse. God would have most gladly healed his marriage if there was a problem.
He said that he was 'steady' with his wife. Steady what? Rhythm and motion? Clue me Ted, for could your wife not have given you a massage or even walk on your back Geisha style? Ted, your wife doesn't appear overweight, and I don't believe her feet are too big or crusty to touch you in all the right places. Dumb move, Ted, dumb, dumb move on your part.
I know I'm venting, but I'm making a point. Me and all of my singleness, I have more than enough in me to please a man and most of all, arouse his curiosity to wonder what more there is about me. My point, Ted's wife who is married to him and knows his body and Jesus, this man has sense enough to not go off to some man for some stupid massage and/or sexual and drug interaction.
No excuse.
Amazing, Pebs, so amazing and so loving to us. And O' how we love Jesus. Amen.pebbles said:Seriously, Isn't God good the way He protects us from certain things in order for us to grow more? I love that!! Only God could be God! How amazing is He?!
God is so mercifully, Pebs. Proof that no matter what we are in the midst of, God is still going to prevail. He still had His way with my life in spite of what was going on and that's who He is...He's God and there is no other. Nothing and no one can prevail over Him. "He protects those whom He loves", and He loves all of us. He who had begun a good work in me was going to complete, no matter what...God was in the midst of me and I was not to be moved, until He said... 'Come away...'
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pebbles
New Member
Shimmie said:
This man has a beautiful wife and family and while I don't know them or their marriage, he is still without excuse. God would have most gladly healed his marriage if there was a problem.
He said that he was 'steady' with his wife. Steady what? Rhythm and motion? Clue me Ted, for could your wife not have given you a massage or even walk on your back Geisha style? Ted, your wife doesn't appear overweight, and I don't believe her feet are too big or crusty to touch you in all the right places. Dumb move, Ted, dumb, dumb move on your part.
I know I'm venting, but I'm making a point. Me and all of my singleness, I have more than enough in me to please a man and most of all, arouse his curiosity to wonder what more there is about me. My point, Ted's wife who is married to him and knows his body and Jesus, this man has sense enough to not go off to some man for some stupid massage and/or sexual and drug interaction.
Amazing, Pebs, so amazing and so loving to us. And O' how we love Jesus. Amen.
God is so mercifully, Pebs. Proof that no matter what we are in the midst of, God is still going to prevail. He still had His way with my life in spite of what was going on and that's who He is...He's God and there is no other. Nothing and no one can prevail over Him. "He protects those whom He loves", and He loves all of us. He who had begun a good work in me was going to complete, no matter what...God was in the midst of me and I was not to be moved, until He said... 'Come away...'
Uh oh! It's on like popcorn! LOL!
Seriously, I'm in agreement with what you've said. It's disappointing that this just gives unbelievers one more thing to point at and laugh about. But Praise God that no matter what we do, His ultimate plans cannot be altered or thwarted. Even in the midst of the bad, God's purpose will be accomplished, and His Glory made manifest.
As difficult as it is for us, the man needs our prayers. The Lord is able to restore His children, even after they have done the most unspeakable things. God chastens His children, and all things done in darkness will be brought to light. Haggards' double life had to come to an end. We need to pray for him and his family, whom I can only imagine must be embarrassed beyond words. Haggard has much to make up for.
pebbles said:Uh oh! It's on like popcorn! LOL!
Seriously, I'm in agreement with what you've said. It's disappointing that this just gives unbelievers one more thing to point at and laugh about. But Praise God that no matter what we do, His ultimate plans cannot be altered or thwarted. Even in the midst of the bad, God's purpose will be accomplished, and His Glory made manifest.
As difficult as it is for us, the man needs our prayers. The Lord is able to restore His children, even after they have done the most unspeakable things. God chastens His children, and all things done in darkness will be brought to light. Haggards' double life had to come to an end. We need to pray for him and his family, whom I can only imagine must be embarrassed beyond words. Haggard has much to make up for.
You're right Pebs, he and his precious family and church members need our prayers. Here's his admission presented to the Church today.
http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/51828.aspx
Haggard Apologizes to Congregation
CBN News
November 5, 2006
CBNNews.com - A letter of apology by ousted evangelical leader Rev. Ted Haggard was read Sunday before the congregation of Colorado's New Life Church.
"I am so sorry for the circumstances that have caused shame and embarrassment for all of you," Haggard said.
In the letter, Haggard confessed to being guilty of sexually immoral conduct.
"The fact is I am guilty of sexual immorality. And I take responsibility for the entire problem. I am a deceiver and a liar. There's a part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I have been warring against it for all of my adult life," he said.
The influential leader was forced to resign from the 14,000 member church after a board investigation concluded he had committed "sexually immoral conduct," church leaders said Saturday.
In the interim, Rev. Ross Parsley will lead the church until a permanent replacement for Haggard is chosen by the end of the year.
"The language of our church bylaws state that as Overseers we must decide in cases where the Senior Pastor has 'demonstrated immoral conduct' whether we must 'remove the pastor from his position or discipline him in anyway they deem necessary,"' the statement said.
Haggard had resigned two days earlier as president of the National Association of Evangelicals after a 49-year-old gay man named Mike Jones claimed on Denver's KHOW-AM radio that Haggard routinely had drug-induced sex with him over a period of three years.
The radio host at one point questioned Jones about the timing of his announcement. In several states, including Colorado, several ballot measures addressing marriage and gay marriage rights will be decided on by voters Nov. 7. Haggard is a well-known advocate of marriage and has openly spoken against same-sex marriage.
Jones says he decided to make his alleged relationship public when he discovered Haggard is a key leader in the political battle over these issues.
However, the Denver Post reported Friday morning that he failed a polygraph test regarding his allegations. John Kresnik, the polygraph administrator, claimed the results indicated there were "deceptions" in Jones' responses, but also said the failure could be a result of stess.
Also on Friday, Haggard admitted to NBC-affiliate KUSA-TV in Colorado Springs to buying methamphetamine and a massage from Jones, but denied ever using the drug. Instead, he said he threw it away.
Meanwhile, the evangelical community expressed shock and grief over Haggard's alleged misconduct.
Family Research Council President Tony Perkins issued a statement Friday, saying he was "deeply saddened" over Haggard's behavior.
"We are concerned for him and his family," he said. "With a profound belief in both truth and forgiveness, we respect the process of discipline that Haggard has submitted to under the authority of the church body involved. However, in his position as a leader of the evangelical community, this personal tragedy has public ramifications."
Focus on the Family's James Dobson also stated Friday that he was "heart sick" over Haggard's admissions, warning that the situation has "grave implications for the Cause of Christ."
"Ted has been my close friend and colleague for many years," he said. "He will continue to be my friend, even if the worst allegations prove accurate. Nevertheless, sexual sin, whether homosexual or heterosexual, has serious consequences, and we are extremely concerned for Ted, his family, and his church."
At New Life Church, James Groesbeck, a church elder, said he was grateful for the quick response from the investigative board.
"I'm saddened by what came out, but I think they've done their job," Groesbeck said told the Associated Press Saturday. "Church members are drawing strength from one another and are caught up in the activity, but that likely will change. I think it's going to be really difficult in a week or two."
Associated Press wires contributed to this report.
*** ** ***
There was a woman who had been caught in adultery and was dragged into the streets to be stoned for her sin. Jesus knelt and wrote in the dirt of the ground, he said,"You without sin, cast the first stone." One by one, the men left. Jesus said to the woman, 'Go and sin no more.'
Ted, go and sin no more. Don't you dare leave your wife and family with a sore and sorry excuse that you are gay and can only live that way. Take heed, I'll come after you, myself and cast that lying devil right out of you. No matter what your struggles, there was a point, where you could have said..."No !"
In the name of Jesus, Lord be glorified in this and us and all of the Church. We truly repent of all of our sins and bringing you shame for selfish gain. Restore us all to you again. In Jesus' name, Amen.
Ted, go and sin no more. Don't you dare leave your wife and family with a sore and sorry excuse that you are gay and can only live that way. Take heed, I'll come after you, myself and cast that lying devil right out of you. No matter what your struggles, there was a point, where you could have said..."No !"
In the name of Jesus, Lord be glorified in this and us and all of the Church. We truly repent of all of our sins and bringing you shame for selfish gain. Restore us all to you again. In Jesus' name, Amen.
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pebbles
New Member
Shimmie said:pebbles said:You're right Pebs, he and his precious family and church members need our prayers. Here's his admission presented to the Church today.
http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/51828.aspx
Haggard Apologizes to Congregation
CBN News
November 5, 2006
CBNNews.com - A letter of apology by ousted evangelical leader Rev. Ted Haggard was read Sunday before the congregation of Colorado's New Life Church.
"I am so sorry for the circumstances that have caused shame and embarrassment for all of you," Haggard said.
In the letter, Haggard confessed to being guilty of sexually immoral conduct.
"The fact is I am guilty of sexual immorality. And I take responsibility for the entire problem. I am a deceiver and a liar. There's a part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I have been warring against it for all of my adult life," he said.
The influential leader was forced to resign from the 14,000 member church after a board investigation concluded he had committed "sexually immoral conduct," church leaders said Saturday.
In the interim, Rev. Ross Parsley will lead the church until a permanent replacement for Haggard is chosen by the end of the year.
"The language of our church bylaws state that as Overseers we must decide in cases where the Senior Pastor has 'demonstrated immoral conduct' whether we must 'remove the pastor from his position or discipline him in anyway they deem necessary,"' the statement said.
Haggard had resigned two days earlier as president of the National Association of Evangelicals after a 49-year-old gay man named Mike Jones claimed on Denver's KHOW-AM radio that Haggard routinely had drug-induced sex with him over a period of three years.
The radio host at one point questioned Jones about the timing of his announcement. In several states, including Colorado, several ballot measures addressing marriage and gay marriage rights will be decided on by voters Nov. 7. Haggard is a well-known advocate of marriage and has openly spoken against same-sex marriage.
Jones says he decided to make his alleged relationship public when he discovered Haggard is a key leader in the political battle over these issues.
However, the Denver Post reported Friday morning that he failed a polygraph test regarding his allegations. John Kresnik, the polygraph administrator, claimed the results indicated there were "deceptions" in Jones' responses, but also said the failure could be a result of stess.
Also on Friday, Haggard admitted to NBC-affiliate KUSA-TV in Colorado Springs to buying methamphetamine and a massage from Jones, but denied ever using the drug. Instead, he said he threw it away.
Meanwhile, the evangelical community expressed shock and grief over Haggard's alleged misconduct.
Family Research Council President Tony Perkins issued a statement Friday, saying he was "deeply saddened" over Haggard's behavior.
"We are concerned for him and his family," he said. "With a profound belief in both truth and forgiveness, we respect the process of discipline that Haggard has submitted to under the authority of the church body involved. However, in his position as a leader of the evangelical community, this personal tragedy has public ramifications."
Focus on the Family's James Dobson also stated Friday that he was "heart sick" over Haggard's admissions, warning that the situation has "grave implications for the Cause of Christ."
"Ted has been my close friend and colleague for many years," he said. "He will continue to be my friend, even if the worst allegations prove accurate. Nevertheless, sexual sin, whether homosexual or heterosexual, has serious consequences, and we are extremely concerned for Ted, his family, and his church."
At New Life Church, James Groesbeck, a church elder, said he was grateful for the quick response from the investigative board.
"I'm saddened by what came out, but I think they've done their job," Groesbeck said told the Associated Press Saturday. "Church members are drawing strength from one another and are caught up in the activity, but that likely will change. I think it's going to be really difficult in a week or two."
Associated Press wires contributed to this report.
*** ** ***There was a woman who had been caught in adultery and was dragged into the streets to be stoned for her sin. Jesus knelt and wrote in the dirt of the ground, he said,"You without sin, cast the first stone." One by one, the men left. Jesus said to the woman, 'Go and sin no more.'
Ted, go and sin no more. Don't you dare leave your wife and family with a sore and sorry excuse that you are gay and can only live that way. Take heed, I'll come after you, myself and cast that lying devil right out of you. No matter what your struggles, there was a point, where you could have said..."No !"
In the name of Jesus, Lord be glorified in this and us and all of the Church. We truly repent of all of our sins and bringing you shame for selfish gain. Restore us all to you again. In Jesus' name, Amen.
Amen!
LOL!
I like James Dobson. I imagine he must really be sick over this entire mess.
pebbles said:Amen!
LOL!
I like James Dobson. I imagine he must really be sick over this entire mess.[/quote]
I would not put it past a lot of ministers who truly want to 'smack' Ted Haggard. Awww, sure they believe in and want to exercise forgiveness for this man's actions, but I have no doubt that many of them want to 'punch' him out. I mean really...think about it. I can see him being yoked up by the collar, Mafia style. And he better not cry!
I can remember my Mama telling me during a spanking, that I better not cry or she'd give me something to cry about.' Ummmm, I still remain tearless around my Mama...
Pebs, I'm just sick of playing 'patty-cake; patty-cake', Baker's man, bake me a cake as fast as you can" with these ministries. Okay, I'll forgive you (I'll make you a cake), but it won't be a fast cake because first I'm going give you something to think about before youi ever try this mess again. Be accountable or deal with the consequences.
I've had it with Church leaders being fools when they truly do not have to be. I'm going to start a positive thread on the goodness of Jesus.
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firecracker
Well-Known Member
Wow on that update.
Shimmie I agree with what you said cuz if this fools tries to come up with the oh I'm gay now after the fact and abandon those kids and wife he needs. Well I'm gon leave that alone. He needs to rebuke that demon cuz he knows better. Talkin bout the darkness and warring against it.
Whateva man. Miss me with that drama lying phony fingerpointing Lucifer.
Shimmie I agree with what you said cuz if this fools tries to come up with the oh I'm gay now after the fact and abandon those kids and wife he needs. Well I'm gon leave that alone. He needs to rebuke that demon cuz he knows better. Talkin bout the darkness and warring against it. Whateva man. Miss me with that drama lying phony fingerpointing Lucifer. 
StrawberryQueen
Well-Known Member
Shimmie said:I would not put it past a lot of ministers who truly want to 'smack' Ted Haggard. Awww, sure they believe in and want to exercise forgiveness for this man's actions, but I have no doubt that many of them want to 'punch' him out. I mean really...think about it. I can see him being yoked up by the collar, Mafia style. And he better not cry!
I can remember my Mama telling me during a spanking, that I better not cry or she'd give me something to cry about.' Ummmm, I still remain tearless around my Mama...
Pebs, I'm just sick of playing 'patty-cake; patty-cake', Baker's man, bake me a cake as fast as you can" with these ministries. Okay, I'll forgive you (I'll make you a cake), but it won't be a fast cake because first I'm going give you something to think about before youi ever try this mess again. Be accountable or deal with the consequences.
I've had it with Church leaders being fools when they truly do not have to be. I'm going to start a positive thread on the goodness of Jesus.
THIS-THIS is what's keeping me from finding a good church home. I just have so many problems with these church leaders living in the gutter and using themselves as an example of what not to do-but yet they preach down to us about the things we don't do-like put $50 in their collection plate, or pay $300 for Bible camp.
firecracker said:Wow on that update.
"Fire", how many things have we been tempted with and had sense enough to stay away from it? I'm tired of being played. I tired of hearing 'sob' stories about, 'struggles'. WELL, NEWS FLASH! That''s what life is...STRUGGLE. Since when does Ted get excused for missing the memo on that.
"Fire", I'm not professing perfection in my life. God knows that I am a piece of work and you know that about me too. But 'Fire', you and I and every woman in this forum, can testify, that we each have struggles in this life and yet....we deal with it. Come On! "Fire", we deal with it. Even when we've yielded to whatever temptations, we still dealt with it. We had to. We had children, families, and loved ones and jobs...our homes. And the fear of our 'mothers' beating the fear of God into us.
Mind you, I know that there are legitmate people out here in life who do have sincere struggles in life. Truly, I do have compassion and I know that there are many, many people who geniunely have things going on in life and they need all of the love and compassion that we can give them. I'm a witness!
But I'm not accepting it from this particular person, Haggard. I'm not. Don't play me with your mess. Admit the entire truth that you wanted to go out and do what you did, because you liked it and you wanted it. Don't play me with garbage that you have a struggle and you could not help yourself.
I'm tired of this mess in the Church, Fire, that's all. I'm tired of it. Stop using 'us' for our compassion, just to excuse a willful choice. There was no Hidden force or magnetic pull upon this man that he was unable to resist or to get help for.
Okay, here it is. Don't preach what you choose not to live. Key word: Choose. Not everyone sins on purpose. We know this. And I mean it when I say, I care. I do care. But if he was having such a struggle, why did he not get help? I don't want to hear his excuses. I'm tired.
In the book of Genesis, 'Joseph' RAN from Potipher's wife who tried to seduce him.' The woman just out and out said to Joseph, "Lie with me." Joseph RAN from her, not to her. She lied on him and said he approached her, and although Joseph was placed in jail because of her lie, God still used him in ministry. Joseph was still used of God and was later vindicated.
My point is that I want my prayers to be where they are needed. The call on my life is to women who want to be happily married. To women who have dreams of being one with a man who will love them no matter what. My heart and prayers are for children. For men who are long overdue for their dreams to be manifested and for the dreams of women who will cherish every blessing that God gives them.
I'm not passing judgment on Ted Haggard, as I truly do not know his heart. But I'm not wasting my time grieving over his sin and his choice.
I'd rather be praying and focusing on my family, friends and loved ones and those who come into my life whose hearts are hurting and want to prayed for sincerely. You and the ladies I've met here are among my loved ones. Please believe that. Please forgive me for not wanting to have compassion for Ted Haggard.
I simply choose you... those that I love... over him.
StrawberryQueen said:
Strawberry, please don't give up. Please don't. The churches and the right Pastors do exist and they are out there. I have many in my life that are. It's just the few of the 'ones' who make it look like it's bad.
That's one of the reasons I am so ticked off about this Haggard issue.
But Angel, please do not give up your faith. Especially. For Jesus is still who He says He is, Our Loving Lord, no matter what happens.
Precious Angel, please do not give up on the Church. We all need each other to keep us strong. Promise? Angel, don't give up.
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Southernbella.
Well-Known Member
Wow. I can't even lie. I doubt I'd stay with him after all that. She's either a wonderful wife, or a plum fool. Time will tell. All I know is, she's in for a long, hard road. I pray her strength through this mess. She didn't deserve that.
StrawberryQueen, just get in your Bible and pray. God will lead you to someplace if it's meant for you to be there. Don't stress about it. You can have a full and meaningful relationship with God even if you don't go to church every single Sunday. Do you have any friends you can fellowship with?
StrawberryQueen, just get in your Bible and pray. God will lead you to someplace if it's meant for you to be there. Don't stress about it. You can have a full and meaningful relationship with God even if you don't go to church every single Sunday. Do you have any friends you can fellowship with?
Honey6928215
New Member
Well I saw it on CNN this morning. But I must say that the it's all coming out.
meek&quietspirit
New Member
StrawberryQueen,
God didn't fail us, Ted Haggard did.
Please continue to pray for The Lord to direct you to a church of His choosing for you.
God loves you, He wants you, and He never fails.
God didn't fail us, Ted Haggard did.
Please continue to pray for The Lord to direct you to a church of His choosing for you.
God loves you, He wants you, and He never fails.
Thank you for sharing this. We have to encourage one another and we will. I'm not giving up on Jesus.meek&quietspirit said:StrawberryQueen,
God didn't fail us, Ted Haggard did.
Please continue to pray for The Lord to direct you to a church of His choosing for you.
God loves you, He wants you, and He never fails.
And ladies, I do have to ask forgiveness for my anger regarding this situation. I'm just fed up with it, that's all. I do not want to be outside of God's will in forgiving this person. But I'm not a fool either.
When my ex-husband was on drugs, there was a point when enough was enough. I loved him, yes. But he had to go. I could not 'baby' him. And I'm not going to baby Ted Haggard with this mess.
Please direct me ladies. I'm not closed to correction in this. I have sense enough to adhere to your counsel and advise. I don't think I've ever felt this way before about a ministry. So please forgive me.
meek&quietspirit
New Member
This letter was taken from a magazine called Christianitytoday.com:
"I am writing from Singapore.
I have trouble trying to figure this out, expecially in light of what so many of you have written.
The fact is that some of you are proposing a standard lower than my high school scout troops. How can it be that children of light can keep behaving like sons of darkness? It is all very odd to me, an Asian.
In Asia, there is a saying that those in the west place great emphasis on public morals, but not too much on private morals. This is why a Bill Clinton can still go around like a celebrity today. In the east, he would have gone into seclusion over his scandal. I note that people like Jim Bakker, Jimmy swaggart, and even Peter Popoff still have thriving ministries despite of their horrendous scandals. I half-suspect that many Christian leaders play around with fire because they have seen that all they need to do is to weep in repentance (at least publicly), go through some sort of "spiritual guidance," lay low for a couple of years, and then re-emerge when people have gone on to another scandal.
Is it really impossible to find leaders who would lead holy lives? Should we always cry out to The LORD, "boo-hoo," we are all sinners, so none of us can keep our zips up long enough...?" Is it rue that there are no longer any virgins in the modern world because it is now impossible to stay pure (how can we be so judgemental and demand that people refrain from-premarital sex?). If that were the case, then much of the Bible should be discarded for teaching an impossibility. The Apostle John wrote that His commands are NOT difficult to keep; so lets call a spade a spade. The man, in his own words, is a liar and deceiver; plain and simple.
What people seem to fail to realize is that the impact of such scandals will drive the work of our LORD Jesus Christ backwards by many, many steps; worldwide. Even in Singapore, the local media is covering this widely, certainly in a negative manner.
This is why James wrote that we should not all aspire to be teachers, for we will be judged more harshly. While it is true that we must always remember that with true repentence, God will forgive this person, as must we. But at the same time, there is a place for righteous anger, and the continual demand that our leaders lead holy lives, or get out of leadership.
Until such time that we acknowledge that holy living is not an option but a pre-requisite for all servants of God, we will always have moral practices and standards lower that the secular world, to the disgrace of our LORD.
From Asia, we are already observing that the LORD'S favour may be moving east, with even African Christian leaders displaying more moral courage than their western counterparts, upholding biblical standards against misguided voices calling for the lowering of moral expectations."
Posted by: Yong TM at November 6, 2006 11:59 AM
"I am writing from Singapore.
I have trouble trying to figure this out, expecially in light of what so many of you have written.
The fact is that some of you are proposing a standard lower than my high school scout troops. How can it be that children of light can keep behaving like sons of darkness? It is all very odd to me, an Asian.
In Asia, there is a saying that those in the west place great emphasis on public morals, but not too much on private morals. This is why a Bill Clinton can still go around like a celebrity today. In the east, he would have gone into seclusion over his scandal. I note that people like Jim Bakker, Jimmy swaggart, and even Peter Popoff still have thriving ministries despite of their horrendous scandals. I half-suspect that many Christian leaders play around with fire because they have seen that all they need to do is to weep in repentance (at least publicly), go through some sort of "spiritual guidance," lay low for a couple of years, and then re-emerge when people have gone on to another scandal.
Is it really impossible to find leaders who would lead holy lives? Should we always cry out to The LORD, "boo-hoo," we are all sinners, so none of us can keep our zips up long enough...?" Is it rue that there are no longer any virgins in the modern world because it is now impossible to stay pure (how can we be so judgemental and demand that people refrain from-premarital sex?). If that were the case, then much of the Bible should be discarded for teaching an impossibility. The Apostle John wrote that His commands are NOT difficult to keep; so lets call a spade a spade. The man, in his own words, is a liar and deceiver; plain and simple.
What people seem to fail to realize is that the impact of such scandals will drive the work of our LORD Jesus Christ backwards by many, many steps; worldwide. Even in Singapore, the local media is covering this widely, certainly in a negative manner.
This is why James wrote that we should not all aspire to be teachers, for we will be judged more harshly. While it is true that we must always remember that with true repentence, God will forgive this person, as must we. But at the same time, there is a place for righteous anger, and the continual demand that our leaders lead holy lives, or get out of leadership.
Until such time that we acknowledge that holy living is not an option but a pre-requisite for all servants of God, we will always have moral practices and standards lower that the secular world, to the disgrace of our LORD.
From Asia, we are already observing that the LORD'S favour may be moving east, with even African Christian leaders displaying more moral courage than their western counterparts, upholding biblical standards against misguided voices calling for the lowering of moral expectations."
Posted by: Yong TM at November 6, 2006 11:59 AM
meek&quietspirit
New Member
Hey Shimmie,
Type Christianitytoday.com
When the page comes up, look for a list of titles located over to the top right. Click on the title From Leadership Out Of Ur Blog: Gordon McDonald on Ted Haggard. At the end of this article, there are several responses posted. That's where I found this one.
Type Christianitytoday.com
When the page comes up, look for a list of titles located over to the top right. Click on the title From Leadership Out Of Ur Blog: Gordon McDonald on Ted Haggard. At the end of this article, there are several responses posted. That's where I found this one.
StrawberryQueen
Well-Known Member
Shimmie said:Thank you Shimmie!!!!!!!StrawberryQueen said:Strawberry, please don't give up. Please don't. The churches and the right Pastors do exist and they are out there. I have many in my life that are. It's just the few of the 'ones' who make it look like it's bad.
That's one of the reasons I am so ticked off about this Haggard issue.
But Angel, please do not give up your faith. Especially. For Jesus is still who He says He is, Our Loving Lord, no matter what happens.
Precious Angel, please do not give up on the Church. We all need each other to keep us strong. Promise? Angel, don't give up.
Hey, we can't lose you. Strawberries are not only beautiful but necessary to one's good health.StrawberryQueen said:
Jesus would miss you singing your favorite love (worship) song to Him. There are more good than bad.
Strawberry, God's word says that the sin of one man which made each of sinners, was overriden by the love and the obedience of Jesus, when He paid the ransome for our salvation. And by this, wherever sin seems to abound, God's grace, His love for us, does much more abound.
Romans 5: 19-20: For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, (Howvever) so by the obedience of one (Jesus) shall many be made righteous.
.... But where sin abounded, GRACE did much more abound:
No matter what any man does, it does not stop the redemption of our souls nor does it stop the love of God in our lives.
There's an old saying that my mom used to tell us when we were growing up, She used to say, "One Monkey Don't Stop No Show."
Well, it's true, one man who chooses to mess up, cannot stop the plan and the love of God. Nor can one man who sinned shut down every good Church which do truly exist in this earth.
Good churches and Pastors are here and we have to support them. And you have the very heart that God needs to do just that...a wonderful and loving heart to support a wonderful Pastor and the ministry God has called him/her to.
It may just be you.... you as the Pastor or the Pastor's wife. You never know what God has in store for you, but you can be sure that whatever it is, it's a wonderful blessing and that it's made of love.
Stay strong, precious one. Please stay strong. We're all in this together. You are not out there alone. Okay?
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