Laela... Yes, very. Healthy Hair's words just 'fit' what was in my heart I read her post. I feel as if I 'know' them.
Mega church pastor beaten to death....
- Thread starter Rainbow Dash
- Start date
Laela... Yes, very. Healthy Hair's words just 'fit' what was in my heart I read her post. I feel as if I 'know' them.
naturalgyrl5199
Well-Known Member
Yes, lady... and when I'd seen one of the members of the church, sprawled out on the grounds of the church bawling her eyes out in sorrow. How deep it must cut the heart, to lose a pastor... Yes, we know absent in the body... God is always in control..... but with oneness of Spirit, we hurt when other Christians are hurting.
Once again..the pastor, the HEAD of the church was targeted...
............
nevermind.
Last edited:
SummerSolstice
New Member
the pic of the family makes me really sad. they need to address what was up with the killer. that makes no sense to me.
MrsHaseeb
Well-Known Member
they need to address what was up with the killer. that makes no sense to me.
What's disturbing about this is that people who are not saved can be possessed by the enemy to try and bring harm to the people of God. I'm wondering if something did not happen with the attacker that left him open for spiritual possession. We all know the enemy comes to steak, kill, and destroy and for some reason satan was able to use this man to attack the people of God. This wasn't just an attack on the pastor and his family but the members and community that loved him as well. It is attempt to make people lose faith in God. I pray for healing and restoration to the family, community and church. In Jesus name. Amen.
Sent from my 4G HTC Thunderbolt using LHCF
Iwanthealthyhair67
Well-Known Member
It may never make any sense, cause we may never know the answer but know that God is still God ...
they need to address what was up with the killer. that makes no sense to me.
Drugs, sexual molestation (as a child/teen); physical/mental abuse, abandonment as a child. Drugs / alcohol abuse (addiction) are an open door to spiritual possession / a deranged mind.
I notice that a lot of stores that sell alcohol are called 'Spirit Shops', these words are literally written on their store signs and / or doors. The word of God speaks in Proverbs 20:1, that 'strong drink' is raging.
I know that 'weed defenders' will have an uproar about this, however, marijuana has a detrimental effect upon the brain, whether it is a child or an adult. When folks are high they are crazy and will say and do things that they would not otherwise, under the influence.
Also, he may have been born with a mental disorder, a chemical imbalance which drove him into such a rage. He may not have been taking his medication; many people become non-complient with the Rx due to the side effects. Men especially if / when it effects their sexual arousal. A lot of these men have problems with impotence with psych meds, and choose not to take them, but they need to stay with their doctors to get the Rx regulated to counter this reaction.
Either way, this attack upon this Pastor and the others, are all totally demonic in nature...totally demonic.
Last edited:
Nice & Wavy
Well-Known Member
Welcome! I for one am so glad that you are here. Thank you for observing the CF and sharing your heart with us, and especially your prayer! I so look forward to more of your posts here on CF! God bless you!
thank you, sis!Me too...oh man
Welcome! I for one am so glad that you are here. Thank you for observing the CF and sharing your heart with us, and especially your prayer! I so look forward to more of your posts here on CF! God bless you!
Me too...oh man
Nice & Wavy... you've definitely been the 'voice of reason' in this thread.
There's so much pain in so many Churches, deep pain...unmerited; nothing brought on by the victims' behaviour of which they've been accused.
My prayer is: Father God, show us what you are revealing to the Body of Christ. What is your message? We are here, listening.
Something that comes to mind...
Each of these Ministers are Black men...
This is occurring near the elections...
I'm not making 'hyperbole' from this (no sensation), it was just a thought... Just a thought.
*tearful sigh*
Nice & Wavy
Well-Known Member
Hey sis...I'm glad you are feeling better 
There is much pain...much pain and its not going unnoticed...God sees all!
There is much pain...much pain and its not going unnoticed...God sees all!
Hey sis...I'm glad you are feeling better
There is much pain...much pain and its not going unnoticed...God sees all!
Thanks sis... I still have some 'bass' in my voice. I sound like Barry White...
It's clearing up. I'm still talking... 
Back on topic:
Somehow, I feel our Black men and also the Black Church is under attack.
Most of the Black Church is 'traditional and maintaining a righteous stand'. The enemy is after leaders who will not bend to compromise to the world.
It ends right now, in Jesus' Name. No hype, just a fact. It ends, in the Name of Jesus. Enough is enough.
Hi everyone,
I've never posted in the CF before, but I noticed this thread when I was scanning. This murder occurred less than 20 miles from my home, so it's been top of the news every night. I'm posting the link to a great article in the local paper regarding the congregation and family during this tragedy.
I also happen to live less than a mile from where the other pastor was slain as he wrote his sermon.
http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/1...-forest-hill-church.html#my-headlines-default
I've never posted in the CF before, but I noticed this thread when I was scanning. This murder occurred less than 20 miles from my home, so it's been top of the news every night. I'm posting the link to a great article in the local paper regarding the congregation and family during this tragedy.
I also happen to live less than a mile from where the other pastor was slain as he wrote his sermon.
http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/1...-forest-hill-church.html#my-headlines-default
auparavant
New Member
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/31/man-who-killed-texas-pastor-mentally-ill-his-widow-says/
Yes, there is a spiritual element. However, perhaps the greatest problem is the level of mental illness going untreated where people assume that G-d will create a miracle. They don't often seek treatment but push it under a rug. They have help because the message out there is "you don't need a psychologist/psychiatrist, you need Jesus." Well, don't we all. However, Jesus might be trying to tell you, "I'm with you but see the psychiatrist, son." If only people would treat mental illness as a disease, which it is... We give side-eyes to those who recommend somebody avoid the oncologist and just pray, right? Christians do themselves a great disservice by avoiding the appropriate channels to treating and/or healing mental illness. We hear that psychology is "evil," or somehow ineffective and fail to treat the full humanity, complexity of man.
Sometimes, He just wants us to use medicine and counseling which He enabled us to develop to help people. The man was mentally ill. Yes, there are always attacks against the church of many kinds and since it's birth. But if the black community, in particular, would wake up and help eradicate or at least TREAT the high level of mental illness in it, some of these types of tragedies would be somewhat avoidable. It's very unfortunate.
Yes, there is a spiritual element. However, perhaps the greatest problem is the level of mental illness going untreated where people assume that G-d will create a miracle. They don't often seek treatment but push it under a rug. They have help because the message out there is "you don't need a psychologist/psychiatrist, you need Jesus." Well, don't we all. However, Jesus might be trying to tell you, "I'm with you but see the psychiatrist, son." If only people would treat mental illness as a disease, which it is... We give side-eyes to those who recommend somebody avoid the oncologist and just pray, right? Christians do themselves a great disservice by avoiding the appropriate channels to treating and/or healing mental illness. We hear that psychology is "evil," or somehow ineffective and fail to treat the full humanity, complexity of man.
Sometimes, He just wants us to use medicine and counseling which He enabled us to develop to help people. The man was mentally ill. Yes, there are always attacks against the church of many kinds and since it's birth. But if the black community, in particular, would wake up and help eradicate or at least TREAT the high level of mental illness in it, some of these types of tragedies would be somewhat avoidable. It's very unfortunate.
Last edited:
demlew ...
It cannot be easy for you to live so close to both of these tragedies. Thank you for coming in to share this with us; it's helping to give us more insight and perhaps somewhere near an understanding if only in part.
God bless you and please feel welcome to join the discussion here. You are most welcome. :Rose:
Rainbow Dash
Well-Known Member
Thanks for posting the link... the quote from the article by the son is just something. His dad put alot of good things in him and it shows through his speech.
I pulled this from the article....
Kirk's son said that his father was smiling down on the gathering. "Daddy, I got Mama," the teenager said. "You don't have to worry no more. You did what you had to do on this side. But you didn't name me Danny Kirk Jr. for no reason. I'm not going to mess up your name."I didn't know that I'd be a man at 17, but it looks like I'm going to be one, and I'm going to be a good one."
Listen to this man's son...his father taught him well and he is full of the Holy Spirit...
The Pastor's 17-year-old son, Danny Kirk Jr., drove the point home.
"You're crying like you don't know where he is going, or where he is," he shouted. "But I serve a God who can raise the dead and heal the sick. That's why I have an assurance and a faith. I still have joy."
Kirk's son said that his father was smiling down on the gathering.
"Daddy, I got Mama," the teenager said. "You don't have to worry no more. You did what you had to do on this side.
But you didn't name me Danny Kirk Jr. for no reason. I'm not going to mess up your name.
"I didn't know that I'd be a man at 17, but it looks like I'm going to be one, and I'm going to be a good one."
http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/10...dlines-default
Look at the son he raised...
God lives in the young man's heart. He taught his son well.
demlew... Again... thank you for so much and God bless you, for sharing this with us. It is so inspiring to see a young Black teen, standing up for his father, ready to follow suit to take care of his mom.
Nice & Wavy
Well-Known Member
Thanks sis... I still have some 'bass' in my voice. I sound like Barry White...
Back on topic:
Somehow, I feel our Black men and also the Black Church is under attack.
Most of the Black Church is 'traditional and maintaining a righteous stand'. The enemy is after leaders who will not bend to compromise to the world.
It ends right now, in Jesus' Name. No hype, just a fact. It ends, in the Name of Jesus. Enough is enough.
...well, I'm just happy that it's clearing up, cause I need Shimmie's voice back!You are so right...the enemy is striking leaders and I'm grateful for all these leaders because they do stand for TRUTH!!! Praise God!
Nice & Wavy
Well-Known Member
Welcome, demlew!
I'm glad that you posted for the first time in the CF. I'm sure your heart is heavy knowing this is happening not far from where you live. I believe that the Lord placed you in your location to pray, for such a time as this.
The article was really good, as it showed the people who love God and loved their pastor. His parents and sister picture made me
and the picture of his wife made me . I would never want to ever be in her positionHis son blessed me with his words and I thank God that he will be used for His Glory. I pray victory over that young man's life, in Jesus Name.
Thank you, again for sharing!
I think it's a disservice to think that Christians are avoiding the issues of mental illness as well as others.
One of the problems with a mentally ill person is that you cannot 'make' them see a doctor or if /when they do, you cannot 'make' them take their medications. This accounts for soooo many issues such as violence in the home, the job, and elsewhere.
Now one can call the police and have the person taken away if they become violent, and / or become a threat to others or themselves, however as it was documented in the article, they can only 'hold' the person but so long.
A family member or friend can also call an outside organization for an 'intervention'. This is where a two counselor's along with a police officer come to your home (or the home of the person who is mentally ill or is taking drugs), to access the person's degree of illness. The person is then taken to an ER and if compliant, will be transferred to an facilty for further treatment. However if the patient is not compliant, they cannot make them take the meds, or further treatments and the patient is released.
I know this because my family has lived this for years with my younger sister. She will not take her medications and she has her highs and lows. What messed her up was getting addicted to street drugs; she wasn't born with a mental disorder; she got involved with a man who turned her onto drugs and her life has never been her own, since.
The article is clear that this man had the illness but for some reason he was not getting treatment. I don't understand why his wife was just noticing that he had mental issues, when quite clearly his past tells it all. He's been in trouble, he's been arrested and yet it seems that no one acquired treatment for him or he rejected it.
This goes back to the Black Church who are indeed addressing this problem; they can't ignore it. It's in the neighborhoods where many of the Churches are located. Many of these Churches have outreach programs reaching out to those who do have mental illness or drug induced imbalances in their brains. The Churches are not hiding under a rock in denial. They are facing this head on and indeed prayer is at the Helm for only a fool would go without prayer. However the Churches cannot make someone cooperate if they are unwilling.
There is a strong indication that this man may have been under some type of treatment with an Rx. He kept saying someone was trying to give his needles, this could be one of two things. He may have been receiving an deconate, where the medication which is time released, is injected into the muscle (usually the upper arm). This is usually given to patients who are noncompliant and the medication is in their system for 2 weeks or more. Once they are stabilized on the medication, they are more reasonable to continued treatment. However in the cases with many men, the medication strengths can cause impotence and they being men, will forego the medication; however the meds can be adjusted to help with the impotence.
Like I said upwards the Churches are indeed involved. Much of it is private as it should be for people. Even in the hospital and clinics there are the HIPAA Privacy Rules, to protection one's confidentiality. The Church follows the same principles.
auparavant
New Member
As in "honey, you don't need a psychologist, just come and pray about it."
There is an undeniable culture of "trust G-d, not the psychologist" in the Black community, it's even present on LHCF. There was equally a culture of "trust G-d, not the doctor" in the same community and so many have perished and/or lived with treatable illness for far too long. It's come a very long way in reversing a lot of that. Prevention is the key. Churches post-Reagan are trying to pick up the pieces of a society that didn't see the reasoning behind aggressive treatment. And in general, the U.S. treats mental health issues like we treat dentistry - optional. Even the medicine/treatment behind it is relatively new.
I'm trying to get at generalities in the community as a whole. People who need marital counseling don't always see the pastor/counselors at their churches. They think they can pray away a problem rather than use psychology to understand man's condition/behavior to work through a problem. Doest G-d work miracles? Yes, but He also gives medical talent to his hands....us.
I'm sorry, but it's undeniable. This thread has been about the death, the shock of it, who was possibly guilty of improprieties, demonic action etc. To me, the blazing question was the mental health issue so largely glossed over in the Black community, esp. by the faithful and I took the opportunity to bring it up again.
There is an undeniable culture of "trust G-d, not the psychologist" in the Black community, it's even present on LHCF. There was equally a culture of "trust G-d, not the doctor" in the same community and so many have perished and/or lived with treatable illness for far too long. It's come a very long way in reversing a lot of that. Prevention is the key. Churches post-Reagan are trying to pick up the pieces of a society that didn't see the reasoning behind aggressive treatment. And in general, the U.S. treats mental health issues like we treat dentistry - optional. Even the medicine/treatment behind it is relatively new.
I'm trying to get at generalities in the community as a whole. People who need marital counseling don't always see the pastor/counselors at their churches. They think they can pray away a problem rather than use psychology to understand man's condition/behavior to work through a problem. Doest G-d work miracles? Yes, but He also gives medical talent to his hands....us.
I'm sorry, but it's undeniable. This thread has been about the death, the shock of it, who was possibly guilty of improprieties, demonic action etc. To me, the blazing question was the mental health issue so largely glossed over in the Black community, esp. by the faithful and I took the opportunity to bring it up again.
Last edited:
Aupar.. this man's actions are indeed demonic, there's no escape from that fact. There are two forces in this world, good and evil. The latter (evil) no matter what the reason, came from an evil spirit.
I don't know what your experiences are in the Church community, however I've been extensively involved with 100's for over 20 years. I know too many Church leaders, personally, all over this country, I worked as an office Manager in a Mental Health clinic for over seven (7) years. I KNOW from personal association, direct communication and involvement that the Churches and Christians by the 100's of thousands are deeply involved with doctors, for all aspects of life.
Perhaps there are some who choose not to see a doctor, however this occurs with those who are not in the Church even more so, those who are not Christians or otherwise. I know this from working directly with medical doctors.
I'm not attempting to go back/forth on this issue with you for I am not in contention, however I know better, the Church is very much involved and very much on top of these issues far more than they are given credit for.
As for the man in this tragedy, he didn't attend Church so this theory against the Church doesn't apply to this particular sad situation.
Ending this in peace. :Rose:
Laela
Sidestepping the "lynch mob"
In all fairness, at the bolded... when the news broke, the one true fact is someone was killed. All the other variables weren't confirmed or accurate. So of course we'd be discussing the death, its affect, etc, at the hearing of the news. No one knew early on if mental health issues were involved. One thing for sure, is nothing but Good comes from God..He doesn't seek to kill, steal or destroy. So anything that is evil is of the devil. Period. Murder is evil. God is sovereign and nothing happens without Him allowing it.
Let me land and hop off my chariot for a minute..
I certainly do understand what you're saying...concerning the comments in read. I won'tt speak for everyone but when I say we must Trust God, that is not to say we shouldn't use our intelligence, Godly wisdom or the talents God gave us. When we trust God, we trust that He sends us the right people, gives us the right tools, etc. Afterall, He did give us wisdom and a mind to use. So with the Godly wisdom we already have, what are we going to do about it?
I agree, blacks folks (generally) don't like to go to the doctors to get checked, don't feel we need medication, etc., Not making excuses, but we must also remember there are also barriers and hurdles, like lack of accessibility to insurance and other programs, poverty and lack of resources that do keep people from getting help they need. Who can they turn to? GOD!
Also, should Christians go to pyschologists who don't believe or care about God to mess with their heads? God forbid, wisdom must apply there as well. There are, thankfully, Christians who use apply their Godly knowledge and wisdom to their crafts. That said, someone's situation could worsen if they go to the wrong doctor or counselor for help with their marriage. For a Christian, Godly counsel is vital in making life decisions. So, YES..trust God that He will guide us to the right people. There it is again..can't get around trusting God
One thing I will also note is that I believe society has gotten so removed from the days of Christ, that things that are demonic in nature gets a label or a "politically correct" name. In the Bible, a person who was "not in their right mind" was under the influence of demons or even possessed. It behooves us to not gloss over that as well....
Let me land and hop off my chariot for a minute..
I certainly do understand what you're saying...concerning the comments in read. I won'tt speak for everyone but when I say we must Trust God, that is not to say we shouldn't use our intelligence, Godly wisdom or the talents God gave us. When we trust God, we trust that He sends us the right people, gives us the right tools, etc. Afterall, He did give us wisdom and a mind to use. So with the Godly wisdom we already have, what are we going to do about it?
I agree, blacks folks (generally) don't like to go to the doctors to get checked, don't feel we need medication, etc., Not making excuses, but we must also remember there are also barriers and hurdles, like lack of accessibility to insurance and other programs, poverty and lack of resources that do keep people from getting help they need. Who can they turn to? GOD!
Also, should Christians go to pyschologists who don't believe or care about God to mess with their heads? God forbid, wisdom must apply there as well. There are, thankfully, Christians who use apply their Godly knowledge and wisdom to their crafts. That said, someone's situation could worsen if they go to the wrong doctor or counselor for help with their marriage. For a Christian, Godly counsel is vital in making life decisions. So, YES..trust God that He will guide us to the right people. There it is again..can't get around trusting God
One thing I will also note is that I believe society has gotten so removed from the days of Christ, that things that are demonic in nature gets a label or a "politically correct" name. In the Bible, a person who was "not in their right mind" was under the influence of demons or even possessed. It behooves us to not gloss over that as well....
Last edited:
auparavant
New Member
Well, I agree with you that it was a very evil act. It had evil influence...but there is a certain stigma attached to being mentally ill. His wife actually thought of Kirk as her pastor. The general black co mmunity is religious.
We all realize we cannot force people into treatment...but often, the church is playing catch-up to the society in which it lives when it could better lead the way...that was my basic point. Look at child protection, domestic violence, AIDS and sti/std's, divorce, single parenthood from oow births, general lack of healthcare... If not a condemnation on the church for lack of comprehension about these issues or latent admission and action...it's an opportunity imho. I have many thoughts on this and was going to make a thread. I just wanted to point out an issue that had been brought up mnany times here. Obviously, this is very tragic and this is an individual case. But this is not a unique one and it's only going to get worse.
We all realize we cannot force people into treatment...but often, the church is playing catch-up to the society in which it lives when it could better lead the way...that was my basic point. Look at child protection, domestic violence, AIDS and sti/std's, divorce, single parenthood from oow births, general lack of healthcare... If not a condemnation on the church for lack of comprehension about these issues or latent admission and action...it's an opportunity imho. I have many thoughts on this and was going to make a thread. I just wanted to point out an issue that had been brought up mnany times here. Obviously, this is very tragic and this is an individual case. But this is not a unique one and it's only going to get worse.
auparavant
New Member
Black culture has had a cultural/religious paradigm shift and has mostly lost it's connection to traditional methods of handling physical and mental illness. They had begun to incorporate the European mindset and I believe that much of the "counseling" that would have occurred alongside prayers and supplication for the person have been dropped and replaced with hope in a miracle. Churches has an incredible opportunity to look at the levels of mental illness in their respective communities and make a difference in treatment if they allocate funds towards those endeavors. It won't take over a healthcare system, but it could provide support where it's most needed.
Alongside prayer, you work through your problem by finding the source of the negative thinking with trained counselors operating within the same religious frame. Obviously, there are many levels of mental illness and some absolutely require psychiatric care but the most common form is depression which doesn't have to be a permanent condition. It's just a thought. The lack of mental health support in the black community is well-documented. Churches can help lessen that gap.
Last edited:
Nice & Wavy
Well-Known Member
Last edited:
Nice & Wavy
Well-Known Member
Just like I knew you would say....I love you both so much!!!!!
I just sent you both a pm....I need you both for something very serious!
Love you and goodnight...get some rest!
Just like I knew you would say....I love you both so much!!!!!
I just sent you both a pm....I need you both for something very serious!
Love you and goodnight...get some rest!
Got it... on it!
Closing Reflections:
Have you noticed? We know this man, this honourable Pastor, this man of God, yet he is being treasured here among us in this thread.
The enemy is the one who got the 'beat down'.
This Pastor's son, said it all...
"Daddy, I got Mama," the teenager said. "You don't have to worry no more. You did what you had to do on this side.
But you didn't name me Danny Kirk Jr. for no reason. I'm not going to mess up your name. "I didn't know that I'd be a man at 17, but it looks like I'm going to be one, and I'm going to be a good one."
To God be the Glory...
Sweet sleep, eveyone
Have you noticed? We know this man, this honourable Pastor, this man of God, yet he is being treasured here among us in this thread.
The enemy is the one who got the 'beat down'.
This Pastor's son, said it all...
"Daddy, I got Mama," the teenager said. "You don't have to worry no more. You did what you had to do on this side.
But you didn't name me Danny Kirk Jr. for no reason. I'm not going to mess up your name. "I didn't know that I'd be a man at 17, but it looks like I'm going to be one, and I'm going to be a good one."
To God be the Glory...
Sweet sleep, eveyone
Similar threads
