Losing my religion

DelightfulFlame said:
So God doesn't have a mind to rescue everyone?

1 Timothy 2
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

So they were operating in "free will" in the evil that God put in them and didn't plan for them to use? Remember, he said He created evil and creates one vessel for dishonor and one for honor.

So "free will" (i.e. man's will) is what saves us? I thought it was God.

Romans 3
11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

John 15:16
16Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Of course God is of a mind to save all of us. That's why JESUS came. But there are people who do not want to ACCEPT CHRIST as their LORD and SAVIOR. I know plenty of people who think this is all foolishness. Don't you?
I think this is turning argumentative, and I don't want to do that. I've said what I had to say. But clearly, we're not in the same place. Thank-you for the discussion. Peace! :Rose:
 
DelightfulFlame said:
and...God purposely created millions of children to be as kindling for a never ending hell fire...these same children that He loves so much, He sent His only begotten son to save them.

And this son, the savior of the world, will in fact not save the world?

I don't believe in an ever ending fire. I don't know how long it will last but I do not believe God is a tortuerer. What kind of God would he be if he left them to burn forever! I think they will be forever dead but not forever burning.

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth." "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." Revelation 21:1, 4.

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts." Malachi 4:1, 3
 
natalied said:
Girl, you are making me work for it!!! We have truly hijacked Webby's thread!

I'm so glad that you all have "hijacked" it, because this is what I needed. I did not mean to cause a divide, but because the bible can be interpreted so differently, I figured so could religion.

I'm trying to keep up with each post, each reply...you all are making a girl work today whew! :D
 
LOL @ nataliered...sorry webby for hi-jacking. But we are studying the bible up in here, and I don't think she minds.

So, God hardens our heart sometimes and not others? So if God hardens my heart to where I cannot accept Him, then I will go to Hell for that decision forever? And how am I to know whether God is orchestrating me...or I am orchestrating myself? And how can I orchestrate myself against God's will when scriptures say that God's will WILL be done?

As for choosing life...okay, I did when it was time for me according to God's will. I can not do so before then. This pertains to the scripture that I posted about God operating all according to His will.

off to read these books you posted. :-)
 
Please know that where salvation is concerned, GOD WILL NEVER harden a person's heart NOT to accept JESUS. If that were the case, then free will would in fact be mass manipulation, and CHRIST would have died in vain. There is a difference when GOD wants to show HIS glory in the lives of HIS people during times of trouble, and HIS desire for us all to be saved. . .
 
Pebbles, I do not mean to be argumentative. I just have questions...so well, I guess that is an argument....but not in a bad way. A lot of what I'm saying is still cloudy to me as well, since I've just started down this path a few months ago. It is helpful to have some opposing views to give me some things to study.

Thanks for your input, and I understand if you no longer want to participate. Hopefully we can all agree to disagree. Many of my friends think I'm nuts too, and that's ok. I believe we are just at different cross roads in our lives...none better than the other. Love, peace, and blessings to you.
 
Oh, no. I'm game. I got the feeling that you were getting upset, and I didn't want to add fuel to the fire. If I was wrong, I'm sorry. :rosebud: I strongly believe that when one can shed light on scripture to help others, it should be done in a manner that brings honor and glory to GOD. :)
 
pebbles said:
Please know that where salvation is concerned, GOD WILL NEVER harden a person's heart NOT to accept JESUS. If that were the case, then free will would in fact be mass manipulation, and CHRIST would have died in vain. There is a difference when GOD wants to show HIS glory in the lives of HIS people during times of trouble, and HIS desire for us all to be saved. . .

but the scripture said that God is operating ALL (not some) according to His will.

I don't understand where freedom comes into play...or hardening hearts sometimes and not others...when the person doesn't know if He's doing what He's doing b/c God said so or because He said so...that is really confusing to me.

ETA: I'm going to lunch. Be back soon!
 
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Well for those of us who are believers of him and his word we believe all it says. God loves us all, but according to his word burning in the fires and all the other stuff is true for non believers. He allows you to come to him of your own free will. If you choose not to believe in him he can not save you its that simple. Baptism is not required to go to heaven, if you look at how Jesus saved the man on the cross, as pebbles mentioned previously, he was not baptised, he just believed and confessed.

Romans 10:9-10: “That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved!

When people say they don't believe in parts of the bible, then they are really saying that they don't believe in him.

Peter wrote " Above all, you must understand that no phophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophets themselves or because they wanted to phophesy. It was the Holy Spirit who moved the prophets to speak to God.
2 Peter 1:20-21.

So when people say man wrote the bible that is not true at all, it was the Holy Spirit, which dwelt within them, and God delivered to us thru them exactly what he wanted us to know!

Lots of people that have gotten baptized and have turned their back on God, so in my opinion, based on my study I don't think they are going to heaven. Baptism to me, is more of an action you do to show the world and to signify the new person that Christ he has asked you to become. If you get baptised and do not strive to live according to the way he has called, then the baptism in itself means nothing and you will not please God, nor be in his favor. So again the only thing required for salvation is:

Romans 10:9-10: “That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved!

Its just VERY hard to stay saved if you don't stay in his word, study, and fellowship with believers (which means going to church).
 
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DelightfulFlame said:
but the scripture said that God is operating ALL (not some) according to His will.

I don't understand where freedom comes into play...or hardening hearts sometimes and not others...when the person doesn't know if He's doing what He's doing b/c God said so or because He said so...that is really confusing to me.

ETA: I'm going to lunch. Be back soon!

That's a fair question. I have to leave now, but I'll be back later this evening to see if I can possibly explain it more clearly. In the mean time, you ladies have fun! Blessings to all! :kiss:
 
Golly Webby. I never answered your question and this is your thread! I do believe God cares how we worship. Throughout the old Testament he punished the children of Israel whenever they didn't precisely worship him like they were supposed to. Check to see what happened to Eli's sons and Aaron's sons when they deviated from what/how God had commanded them to worship. We are held accountable for the "light" we are given. Some people don't "know" about Christ. Like I said in my previous post, there is much debate on what "know" means. Just b/c someone has heard of Jesus Christ doesn't mean the really "know" him. I think God has to speak to you and you have to reject his speaking to to be held accountable.

God requires worship. He is very clear on that. Yes, many people interpret how to worship in different ways BUT like I said b4 you are only accountable for the light you have.

Webby, I think you need to study for yourself so God can reveal his will for you to you. Nobody else can do that.

I suggest you do a bibly study and go from there. If you do not feel comfortable doing your own bible study, pray that God leads you to a bible study group with believers who are truly studying the Word of God. If you are seeking, God will help you find what you are looking for as long has you have a sincere desire to learn.:)

webby said:
I hope this is not taken the wrong way. I don't want to sound offensive, but I have a question.
 
beverly said:
Well for those of us who are believers of him and his word we believe all it says. God loves us all, but according to his word burning in the fires and all the other stuff is true for non believers. He allows you to come to him of your own free will. If you choose not to believe in him he can not save you its that simple. Baptism is not required to go to heaven, if you look at how Jesus saved the man on the cross, as pebbles mentioned previously, he was not baptised, he just believed and confessed.

Romans 10:9-10: “That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved!

When people say they don't believe in parts of the bible, then they are really saying that they don't believe in him.

Peter wrote " Above all, you must understand that no phophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophets themselves or because they wanted to phophesy. It was the Holy Spirit who moved the prophets to speak to God.
2 Peter 1:20-21.

So when people say man wrote the bible that is not true at all, it was the Holy Spirit, which dwelt within them, and God delivered to us thru them exactly what he wanted us to know!

Lots of people that have gotten baptized and have turned their back on God, so in my opinion, based on my study I don't think they are going to heaven. Baptism to me, is more of an action you do to show the world and to signify the new person that Christ he has asked you to become. If you get baptised and do not strive to live according to the way he has called, then the baptism in itself means nothing and you will not please God, nor be in his favor. So again the only thing required for salvation is:

Romans 10:9-10: “That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved!

Its just VERY hard to stay saved if you don't stay in his word, study, and fellowship with believers (which means going to church).


High-five, baby girl! :up:
 
Worship is a lot of things. Get creative but be careful of some things like:

-First of all God does not want us to concentrate on Things when we worship (like rosaries, crosses, bibles).
A pastor gave an example of people who need a little extra help by having a cross or statue to pray to or in front of. They may not be worshipping the statue itself but that goes in the area of ideal worship because God wants all of your attention and HE wants to be your inspiration. He doesn't want ANY of your attention on things.

-Show offs. You know the people. In the bible it says when you do things to get the approval of man then that's your reward. So you sing so everyone can hear how great you sound. Good. They clap for you and then forget about you. That's your reward right there. Because you didn't do it for God's approval you did it for man. And you got it and that's that. Anytime you become the focus of attention with your bad singing or distracting show of adoration you disrupt the act of praising GOD. Not to say that people who get the holy ghost are doing this. But when you have to shout, cry and stomp at the drop of a hat. Or like some people do it, to get yourself motivated. Then you risk becoming the center of attention and that's not what worship is about. I repeat people who genuinely get the holy spirit are not what I'm talking about.

-I don't mean to rag on Catholics but repitition with the purpose of you thinking the more times you say it the better it will work. (This is not the same as pressing in to GOD and praying until something happens, like if someone is sick and you pray for them everynight). But with things like Hail Mary's. I know my friend is Catholic and she's was telling me about a certain number of Hail Mary's for a certain sin. She can say Hail Marys until her tongue falls off. God cares about your heart and when you say a prayer from your heart thoughtfully He cares and hears but just repitition because of tradition and decorum is not the right way to worship and Paul himself warns us of that in the bible.

-Once again not to rag on the Catholics but worship directed towards anyone but God is not worship. I know Catholics don't pray to saints but ask the saints to pray for them. But Jesus Christ died on the cross so that you will have a direct line to him. You don't have to pray to saints to ask them to put in a good word. You don't have to slaughter a lamb for the blood (He's the Lamb of God remember:D ). You don't have to go through priests (why are they so holy that they can be an intermediary between you and God? He sent his son to die so you didn't have to go through priests anymore). Also Mary is not to be prayed to. She is the mother of Jesus Christ but God Himself said you are so precious he will not share your worship and devotion with anyone else. I think his momma was included in that:lol: .

-Worship not directed at Him. That may sound like I'm treating you like you are stupid but many people didn't get that one in the biblical days and don't get it now. From those in the biblical days that worshipped the false Gods around them but were secretly Christian but thought it was all good because after all they were all praying to the same god, right? Wrong. God wants your effort. If you want to go to a mosque and throw up a prayer or good vibe thinking that it's all the same because it goes up and God's somewhere in the sky that's not worship. Imagine if someone was giving you money. You'd want that cash directed right at YOUR palm:lachen: , not just left out on the table because you'd be around the table and you could just grab the money yourself. No. You want your money in your hand. That's God. He wants you to give him his praise directed at him specifically.


Great forum. You ladies are on point. I think I will be spending most of my time here from now on. Thanks mods. And Admins'.
 
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Every one will confess to God...I'm assuming that with God staring you in the face you will believe (let me look b/c I have another scripture somewhere else too).

Romans 14
10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

-----------------
So you have to stay saved? Isn't that working for the gift? What happened to confessing and believing? Now it's confessing, believing, fellowshiping at church, reading my bible, and staying in the word?

Also, since we are sinful creatures (the way God made us), we all do wrong. To repent means to turn away...not just say sorry. So if I have to work to stay saved...and I die without warning and with unrepented sin (no time left to change), I'm no longer saved?
 
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DelightfulFlame said:
I die without warning and with unrepented sin (no time left to change), I'm no longer saved?

Ok, now I have a question, so bare with me please...

Isn't suicide the one sin that God does not forgive, as there is no time to repent. If this is the case, then wouldn't it stand to reason that God also won't forgive those of us who have not repented at our time of death, regardless to the cause of our departure?
 
the only unpardonable sin that I'm aware of is here:

Matthew 12:31
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

It's open to interpretation as is everything else. I think that it means that there are sins that if you repent from you might not be punished for. However, in this case...if you do this...you will not escape punishment.

Will you never be forgiven? I think it would be funny for God to ask us to forgive, yet not do it Himself. He said that Love covers a multitude of sins, and He is love. He said that nothing can separate us from Him.

Romans 8
35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

...

38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

--------------

ETA: I've heard of that suicide sin in church, but haven't read anything about it in the bible.
 
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webby said:
Ok, now I have a question, so bare with me please...

Isn't suicide the one sin that God does not forgive, as there is no time to repent. If this is the case, then wouldn't it stand to reason that God also won't forgive those of us who have not repented at our time of death, regardless to the cause of our departure?

I think the suicide as an unpardonable sin came from the Catholic Church not the bible. I'm still studying this so forgive me if I'm wrong. Some things we know come from knowing the Savior and his ways and some come from plain old being told.
With some of our beliefs and traditions I think it's a little helpful to remember Christians are follower of Christ but when religion starting getting organized more and not just house churches and word of mouth like the earlier disciples who spread the word then the Catholic Church came about. And the Christians are Catholics who broke away from the church because of the things the church was injecting into the gospel (Read about Martin Luther, an amazing man). But some remnants of Catholicism still remain in some Christian denominations
 
Scriptures I spoke about earlier...I'm sure there are more...but here are the few I have.

Jesus from Foundation of the world ~ Revelation 13:8, 1 Peter 1:20

Satan a sinner from the beginning (not a good angel) ~ 1 John 3:8, John 8:44
In fact, Satan actually masquerades as a good angel ~ 2 Corinthians 11:14
Purpose of Satan ~ Isaiah 54:16, 1 Corinthians 5:4-5

Names in book of life from beginning ~ Ephesians 1:4, 11; Matthew 25:34

God's will (no choice) ~ Romans 11:32, Phil 2:13, Eph 1:5, Eccl. 3 (a purpose for everything!)
 
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DelightfulFlame said:
but the scripture said that God is operating ALL (not some) according to His will.

I don't understand where freedom comes into play...or hardening hearts sometimes and not others...when the person doesn't know if He's doing what He's doing b/c God said so or because He said so...that is really confusing to me.

ETA: I'm going to lunch. Be back soon!

Ok, let me try to explain it this way.

The most important thing to understand is that it is God's will that we all have free will. That was the plan when He created the angels, and when He created man. But in so doing, He knew that in giving us free will, many would choose not to believe. Why? Because He gives us the right to choose, and with choices available to us, it's a given that not everyone is going to make the right choices. So knowing this, our Father had a plan for redemption from the very beginning. The very idea that God had a plan from the very beginning because He knew what would happen is incredible, and I thank Him for it.

So then, didn't God know that Adam and Eve would sin and fall from grace? And if He knew this, why did He allow this to happen? Answer: Because if He forces us to make the right decision, we no longer have the freedom of choice that He wanted for us, but are now living puppets. God wants us to choose Him of our own free will, not because He makes us accept Him.

And consider the fact that all throughout the bible, God continually gives us advice, if you will, on how we are to live in this life. What we are to do to draw closer to Him and to know Him as our Lord. There would be no need for that if we didn't have the choice to do what He says or not.

When God hardens someone's heart, it is always the means to an end that will bring glory to His name, and an understanding to His people of His nature and ability to be all that we need. It is further intended to drive home the point, that no matter what gods people worship, there is no way those gods can rise to the level He can and do the things He does. Why? Because they are all impotent, and dead to boot!

I hope I made it a little bit more clear. I tried to keep it as brief as I could. :)
 
DelightfulFlame said:
So then you believe that everyone who isn't baptized is going to hell? So the baptism is what saves? What about the man who was on the cross with Jesus? Is he the only one that will be saved without being baptized?

Baptism does not mean salvation. It is just a symbol of your confession of faith. As long as you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and Savior, then you are saved and will go to heaven.
 
Webby, I wanted to comment on your statement about not having to tithe.

Tithing is not a choice, its a command. You do have to tithe. You must give God what's his which is 10%. If you do not, you are robbing God. ;)
 
Poohbear said:
Webby, I wanted to comment on your statement about not having to tithe.

Tithing is not a choice, its a command. You do have to tithe. You must give God what's his which is 10%. If you do not, you are robbing God. ;)

A woman after my own heart. :kiss: Tithing is a hot topic for many, but I think the word of God is clear about it. And personally, I can attest to the fact that the Father takes care of those who obey Him in this area.

I do tithe. And yes, 10% of everything!! I haven't seen yet where Jesus says in the New Testament that we don't have to tithe anymore. The Lord loves a cheerful giver, so if there are people who feel they just cannot part with any of their earnings, or will grumble and complain about it, I do think it's best to keep your money.

Remember the story of Caine and Abel:

Genesis 4: 3"And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
4And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
6And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door."

If you look closely, the differences between the two were that Abel brought the first of what he had, the choicest, if you will. Cain just brought whatever he felt God should have, maybe even the leftovers.

When I think of all God has given me, and all He requires back is 10% and offerings, I don't see that as a big deal. If you make $1000 a week, and have to pay $100 of that and whatever you want over that, I don't see that it's too much to give for the work of the church.

If believers do not tithe regularly, how can the church function? How does it pay it's bills, and plan a budget, or help members in need? Should you go into a church and be fed with the word of God, and then leave the pastor to pay everything on his own?

Is everything in the Old Testament that is not validated again in the New Testament automatically null and void? I don't believe that to be the case. And search as I might, I haven't read the passage yet where Jesus says that tithing is no longer necessary.

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I think 10% of my gross pay isn't too much to give back to God for giving me the health and the strength to work and make money in the first place!

If others choose not to tithe, that's on them, but just because some of us follow the principle of tithing doesn't mean we're operating outside the will of God, as I've seen suggested countless times. Tithing wasn't made up by man, it's a biblical principle. Man is selfish by nature. If it were up to man alone, clearly he wouldn't give a thing, let alone 1/10 of all he earns.

To quote from the New Testament:

1st Corinthians9:6,7-He which sows sparingly shall reap sparingly; and he which sows bountifully shall reap bountifully. Every man according to as he purposes in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of neccessity: for God loves a cheerful giver.

Galatians6:7-Be not deceived; for God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, he shall reap.

1st Corinthians16:2 says "On the first day of every week, each of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made."

Is this popular? No. Is it right? Yes. :)
 
Lastly, I would caution people from relying on the internet as their main source of teaching in their Christian walk. To my dismay, I see teachings and beliefs being spread around on the internet that are not "Bible" based but instead are one individuals belief, and that's a danger. I urge those who are not regular members of a church to find a church home that is teaching a doctrine that is in line with the word of God. Consistent and regular fellowship in a house of worship, with believers, under an annointed man of God, is essential to the growth of a believer.

Trying to do it alone leaves you open to all sorts of beliefs that are not in line with the word of God, and that's a terrible place to be. It was fun! :rosebud:
 
pebbles said:
Ok, let me try to explain it this way.

The most important thing to understand is that it is God's will that we all have free will. That was the plan when He created the angels, and when He created man. But in so doing, He knew that in giving us free will, many would choose not to believe. Why? Because He gives us the right to choose, and with choices available to us, it's a given that not everyone is going to make the right choices. So knowing this, our Father had a plan for redemption from the very beginning. The very idea that God had a plan from the very beginning because He knew what would happen is incredible, and I thank Him for it.

So then, didn't God know that Adam and Eve would sin and fall from grace? And if He knew this, why did He allow this to happen? Answer: Because if He forces us to make the right decision, we no longer have the freedom of choice that He wanted for us, but are now living puppets. God wants us to choose Him of our own free will, not because He makes us accept Him.

And consider the fact that all throughout the bible, God continually gives us advice, if you will, on how we are to live in this life. What we are to do to draw closer to Him and to know Him as our Lord. There would be no need for that if we didn't have the choice to do what He says or not.

When God hardens someone's heart, it is always the means to an end that will bring glory to His name, and an understanding to His people of His nature and ability to be all that we need. It is further intended to drive home the point, that no matter what gods people worship, there is no way those gods can rise to the level He can and do the things He does. Why? Because they are all impotent, and dead to boot!

I hope I made it a little bit more clear. I tried to keep it as brief as I could. :)

Yes, I agree that God does give us advice throughout the bible. But I also think that we cannot follow it unless it is time...as part of his perfect will/plan.

I understand what you think about free will. I thought the same thing not that long ago. But I do not find support of man's will being supreme in the bible. What I do find is that God is operating everything according to His will.

So if we can do things that God doesn't intend for us to do...then who is God?

ETA: As far as the Internet and finding information...who I am to question the messenger? I suppose it is better for me to listen to a man in a church building. That would be better huh?
 
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Poohbear said:
Webby, I wanted to comment on your statement about not having to tithe.

Tithing is not a choice, its a command. You do have to tithe. You must give God what's his which is 10%. If you do not, you are robbing God. ;)

I didn't mention not tithing, did I...may have been someone else, cuz my momma always says that denying God his 10% is definitely robbing Him of His.
 
AnnDriena_ said:
I think the suicide as an unpardonable sin came from the Catholic Church not the bible. I'm still studying this so forgive me if I'm wrong. Some things we know come from knowing the Savior and his ways and some come from plain old being told.
With some of our beliefs and traditions I think it's a little helpful to remember Christians are follower of Christ but when religion starting getting organized more and not just house churches and word of mouth like the earlier disciples who spread the word then the Catholic Church came about. And the Christians are Catholics who broke away from the church because of the things the church was injecting into the gospel (Read about Martin Luther, an amazing man). But some remnants of Catholicism still remain in some Christian denominations

I'm enjoying reading this thread and I am learning much, especially from the debates. But I had to speak about this: Catholics ARE Christians. People like Martin Luther who left the Catholic church are Protestants - and also Christians. Catholics believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; Christ is our Lord and Savior. That makes us Christian. True, there is no Biblical justification for confessions to priests; the Bible definitely says we can confess our sins directly. But religious customs are observed by humans and humans are inherently fallible; as such, Catholicism isn't the only sect with contradictions - they exist between various Protestant sects as well.

To me, people who "distinguish" who among us is Christian based on what version of the Bible we read (KJV, NIV, Amplified), or what SECT of Christianity we belong to, etc. etc., are suspect. Interestingly enough, all the Catholic bashing -and this is also w/r/t the post before yours that was full of "not to bash Catholics but..." and did anyway- comes from people who are NOT Catholic. I'll be the first to admit that I am at the learning stages, and not a Biblical scholar, but putting other Christians down to exalt one's own customs seems not at all about spreading the Word of God and more about human motivations.
 
DelightfulFlame said:
ETA: As far as the Internet and finding information...who I am to question the messenger? I suppose it is better for me to listen to a man in a church building. That would be better huh?

I never suggested that man's will is supreme in the bible. God's will is supreme above all, and we are all operating in the time that He has set. I thought that was a given. I don't think you were where I am, and that's because you are not communicating back to me what I'm saying. We're going around in circles and we seem to be arguing semantics. But no biggie. And no, you are not to sit in a church building and listen to "a" man. What is best to do is to find an "annointed man of God", (there is a difference), in a house of the Lord that teaches the word, (not just a building that is called a church), with other believers where you can discuss the word and learn. If there is one thing I do know it's that the word of God is consistently consistent. And I question everyone that speaks a word that doesn't appear to line up with the word of God. I've learned not to let just any old teaching into my spirit. But that's another thread. :)
 
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Nyambura said:
I'm enjoying reading this thread and I am learning much, especially from the debates. But I had to speak about this: Catholics ARE Christians. People like Martin Luther who left the Catholic church are Protestants - and also Christians. Catholics believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; Christ is our Lord and Savior. That makes us Christian. True, there is no Biblical justification for confessions to priests; the Bible definitely says we can confess our sins directly. But religious customs are observed by humans and humans are inherently fallible; as such, Catholicism isn't the only sect with contradictions - they exist between various Protestant sects as well.

To me, people who "distinguish" who among us is Christian based on what version of the Bible we read (KJV, NIV, Amplified), or what SECT of Christianity we belong to, etc. etc., are suspect. Interestingly enough, all the Catholic bashing -and this is also w/r/t the post before yours that was full of "not to bash Catholics but..." and did anyway- comes from people who are NOT Catholic. I'll be the first to admit that I am at the learning stages, and not a Biblical scholar, but putting other Christians down to exalt one's own customs seems not at all about spreading the Word of God and more about human motivations.


Yes, Catholics are Christians. As a former Catholic myself, there were a lot of things that didn't sit well with me and left too many unanswered questions. 12 years spent in Catholic school under the teachings, and never once did I open a bible, because the nuns told us repeatedly that only the priests were able to tell us what the scriptures meant. And I had difficulty understanding why the stories in the bible were not to be taken litterally. At any rate, though there are many differences between the Catholic and Protestant faith, we do share the most important belief, and that is that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior. :)
 
webby said:
I didn't mention not tithing, did I...may have been someone else, cuz my momma always says that denying God his 10% is definitely robbing Him of His.

oops. i think it was delightfulflame. sorry!
 
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