Let the Man Feel Like a Man: Should We Let Them Take Charge?

[Guitarhero]

How and why or why not? Any middle ground? My thoughts are haven't many women already made men feel like they're in control and manly (albeit, sexual prowess is mostly on the mind)? Perhaps a little backwards, though. Because so many men are in control of womens' wombs and lives. But if they feel like the "big man," why don't they put a ring to it (ideally, first) and stick around to raise their children, even those who've married? There are good men and there are bad men. Is being in charge and delegating responsibility to them truly the issue? Partially the issue?

If he's stable and confident, he won't have a crisis when she is capable of making a decision on something faster and better than he can. If he wishes to race her in making that decision and take control of the issue, then he needs to play the part and be smart, thinking it through to come to the best decisions and present it. Just letting a man control a situation that could adversely affect the family and or future isn't truly "letting him be a man," in that case, it's letting him be an idiot. Example? Soul Food. Remember when the grandmother's husband gambled away their money and she had to take on several jobs to make mortgage and other ends meet but silently, with no complaints? Her advice to her grandchild was to allow a man to be a man, no matter what. It was him who ultimately reached the decision to suffer his family.

Isn't that bad advice, tho? They have got to be quick to think and if she's quicker and smarter, he shouldn't complain if she's not willing to suffer through poor choices simply because he needs his ego stroked. Being a smart wife is not necessarily being one who has to live with his stupid choices and all the resulting difficulties. Female empowerment isn't about cruel domination.

Both men and women need to empower themselves - not giving up too much and not controlling too much but working together towards unity. If either party feels unappreciated, s/he should definitely look within to make sure the cause is not self due to a lack of personal development. Men and women complement each other naturally in nature but their gender traits and roles shouldn't prevent either one from assuming responsibility. Let the bigger "man" step forward in any given situation and if the other feels the lesser, let "him" develop himself and step it up. But we all know that, ultimately, it's going to be women who will often have to defer to a man's fragile ego to make peace when he could equally swallow his false pride. Peace has come to mean defeat. erplexed. And why so? She'll be accused of driving him away but would he be ever accused of the same? Happy median other than equal respect? Manipulation?

What say you? Any wise words and thoughts on the subject?

 

[MissMasala5]

Per the Soul Food example: Let a man be man, yes, but let the idiots be idiots somewhere else, far, far away. This is just taking things a bit too far.

OTOH, a weakened man can be shored up by a strong woman if he trusts and respects her. I know a woman who's SO was addicted to drugs. She was successful at getting him to not only go but STAY in rehab until he completed his program. Where other women would have run for the hills when he came out, this woman was waiting for him. They got married and he's stayed clean, and has more than recouped what was lost before due his addiction.

 

[luckiestdestiny]

How and why or why not? Any middle ground? My thoughts are haven't many women already made men feel like they're in control and manly (albeit, sexual prowess is mostly on the mind)? Perhaps a little backwards, though. Because so many men are in control of womens' wombs and lives. But if they feel like the "big man," why don't they put a ring to it (ideally, first) and stick around to raise their children, even those who've married? There are good men and there are bad men. Is being in charge and delegating responsibility to them truly the issue? Partially the issue?

If he's stable and confident, he won't have a crisis when she is capable of making a decision on something faster and better than he can. If he wishes to race her in making that decision and take control of the issue, then he needs to play the part and be smart, thinking it through to come to the best decisions and present it. Just letting a man control a situation that could adversely affect the family and or future isn't truly "letting him be a man," in that case, it's letting him be an idiot. Example? Soul Food. Remember when the grandmother's husband gambled away their money and she had to take on several jobs to make mortgage and other ends meet but silently, with no complaints? Her advice to her grandchild was to allow a man to be a man, no matter what. It was him who ultimately reached the decision to suffer his family.

Isn't that bad advice, tho? They have got to be quick to think and if she's quicker and smarter, he shouldn't complain if she's not willing to suffer through poor choices simply because he needs his ego stroked. Being a smart wife is not necessarily being one who has to live with his stupid choices and all the resulting difficulties. Female empowerment isn't about cruel domination.

Both men and women need to empower themselves - not giving up too much and not controlling too much but working together towards unity. If either party feels unappreciated, s/he should definitely look within to make sure the cause is not self due to a lack of personal development. Men and women complement each other naturally in nature but their gender traits and roles shouldn't prevent either one from assuming responsibility. Let the bigger "man" step forward in any given situation and if the other feels the lesser, let "him" develop himself and step it up. But we all know that, ultimately, it's going to be women who will often have to defer to a man's fragile ego to make peace when he could equally swallow his false pride. Peace has come to mean defeat. erplexed. And why so? She'll be accused of driving him away but would he be ever accused of the same? Happy median other than equal respect? Manipulation?

What say you? Any wise words and thoughts on the subject?

I'm with you on this subject especially the bolded (parts). I think letting a man lead (unwisely) is to the peril of the entire family. And also dominating (cruel domination as you put it) the family isn't the solution either. It's almost as if the media puts out two choices: he wears the pants, or she's the cruel task master holding a pair of (his) ba-ls in her hand lol!

I'm more of the thought that we should be kind and considerate of our spouses (and it should work both ways) and we should BOTH lead. At times my fiance and I , after marriage, will make decisions together (when we're in agreement) and at times the person with more knowledge of the subject at hand or the better idea will make the decision. This plays out now even though we aren't married. We've started making decisions in this manner because we realize that we are in agreement to make a future together.

We're both pretty reasonable at acknowledging when the other should take the reigns on a subject and it isn't a knock down drag out fight.

I think it's because of what you pointed out which is that when someone is confident in their masculinity (as my fiance for ex) they dont feel the need to dominate just to dominate. There is no insecurity there so they don't feel the need to just be followed for no reason, and to force a woman into submission.

I think my fiance recognizes that I have a brain and wants to know my ideas, and concedes when its the better option, and I also do the same for him. That way we are working as a unit, or as one so to speak anyways.

I agree wholeheartedly because I have family members who followed the "man" to hell basically. And their ideas were so off but they kept following cause that's what you're supposed to do. And I was annoyed because I wondered when the guy would assess that he was making stupid choices and be open to other "advice" that could perhaps lead the family in another direction. But no he was insecure and too adamanent about "letting the man be the man" (eye roll). And of course he kept dominating, and the family does not thrive, and it just keeps going....

So I knew right away I was not going to accept a man with this idea of being a man.

 

[ambergirl]

What I've seen a lot of women do is allow a man to act like he's in charge even though underneath it all they both know he really isn't. A lot of men would rather live with the illusion of being the leader then the reality of shared power.

I'm a bad actress so I've never been able to pull this off (and honestly not sure I would want to), but I've seen a few women do this and it seems to work for them. Basically it seems to involve giving him enough information to make good decisions and then letting him take full credit for them. Not criticizing him openly when he messes up in order for him to safe face, and heaping on the praise.

Seriously, I just don't think I can do this (makes me want to actually), but the women I've seen who can do this often have their men eating out of their hands.

 

[CurlyMoo]

I love when men take the lead and make decisions. I need a break sometimes and it's comforting to know I'm not the only one who knows how to think. I'm not into men who are too dependent on women to take the lead in the relationship.

 

[~Sparklingflame~]

Im going to make this brief.

Yes let him FEEL like a man. BUT in reality you are in charge as the woman. There is a fine art called "Let him think hes "THE MAN" while you are running things." In other words, make him think hes running things, hes the originator of the idea, ect. You, and he does to in the back of his mind, know whos REALLY in charge.

 

[~Sparklingflame~]

I'm with you on this subject especially the bolded (parts). I think letting a man lead (unwisely) is to the peril of the entire family. And also dominating (cruel domination as you put it) the family isn't the solution either. It's almost as if the media puts out two choices: he wears the pants, or she's the cruel task master holding a pair of (his) ba-ls in her hand lol!

I'm more of the thought that we should be kind and considerate of our spouses (and it should work both ways) and we should BOTH lead. At times my fiance and I , after marriage, will make decisions together (when we're in agreement) and at times the person with more knowledge of the subject at hand or the better idea will make the decision. This plays out now even though we aren't married. We've started making decisions in this manner because we realize that we are in agreement to make a future together.

We're both pretty reasonable at acknowledging when the other should take the reigns on a subject and it isn't a knock down drag out fight.

I think it's because of what you pointed out which is that when someone is confident in their masculinity (as my fiance for ex) they dont feel the need to dominate just to dominate. There is no insecurity there so they don't feel the need to just be followed for no reason, and to force a woman into submission.

I think my fiance recognizes that I have a brain and wants to know my ideas, and concedes when its the better option, and I also do the same for him. That way we are working as a unit, or as one so to speak anyways.

I agree wholeheartedly because I have family members who followed the "man" to hell basically. And their ideas were so off but they kept following cause that's what you're supposed to do. And I was annoyed because I wondered when the guy would assess that he was making stupid choices and be open to other "advice" that could perhaps lead the family in another direction. But no he was insecure and too adamanent about "letting the man be the man" (eye roll). And of course he kept dominating, and the family does not thrive, and it just keeps going....

So I knew right away I was not going to accept a man with this idea of being a man.

This is very true. In all honesty, men just CANNOT run the family. They just cant do it. I hate to say it but its true. Ask any married woman and she will tell you, let a man take the reigns and things will be tangled up to high heaven.

 

[chocolat79]

I'm not married, BUT, my parents have been married for 35 years and I have paid attention to the dynamics.

I think first, you want to chose a competent mate. If the guy is an indecisive, lazy, beta male to begin with, then the leading will be a problem and you won't have confidence in the man and it'll probably end up a disaster. He has to have his own confidence and you have to have confidence in him too. Those things have to have been observed/discussed BEFORE marriage, if it's going to be successful.

Given the above, if you have a good "leader", then he won't be dominating or domineering. A good leader leads well by asking opinions of his wife and family (if needed). He takes everything into account and makes the decision that's best for the family based on logic and feedback from his wife. He may even defer the decision to her. A good leader is one who listens and acts accordingly. There's no such thing as TWO leaders, that's why there's a president and a VICE-president. Someone has to break the tie, so to speak. And that's why when TWO people lead, it doesn't work out so well. If you're locked into a tie, who's going to break it? If both "leaders" feel they're right, who surrenders?

So, if you have a competent, confident husband/SO, then him leading shouldn't be a problem. Also, like SF said, he needs to FEEL like he's leading at times when he may not be. Women tend to not realize their true power. There are plenty of ways to "steer" him in the direction that he needs to go if it looks like he's headed down the wrong path for the family. At other times, he may know something that you don't and although it may seem like he's putting the family in peril, it comes out to be a good decision because he's weighed EVERYTHING. Also, if it doesn't turn out so well, a leader knows when to acknowledge that he's wrong and apologize.

I will have no problem letting my future DH lead because I plan on making sure he's a good leader while he's just an SO. I actually practice this now. I let an SO (when I have one) make a lot of decisions for us. If I don't particularly like it, I may express my disapproval with another suggestion that we BOTH can live with. If he's gung ho about his decision and has sound reasoning, and it's not something detrimental or against beliefs or something, then I'll fall back and see what happens. Usually it works out. Sometimes it hasn't and he's acknowledged it and vowed to listen to me from then on. Still came out in my favor. I guess in a way, it's a form of testing, although I'm not necessarily thinking of it that way at the time, but I AM observing how it would be in the future---to really to see if he values my opinion and takes it into consideration. If not, he's not the the man for me.

At this point, I'm tired of making all the decisions. I'd like someone competent to take the lead.

I think the issue comes in when a man wants to be a leader and is not competent, capable, or agreeable. All GOOD leaders are also GOOD listeners; they listen to their trusted advisers and can generally make good decisions.

Anyway, that's my $.02

 

[8HoursFromHome]

What I've seen a lot of women do is allow a man to act like he's in charge even though underneath it all they both know he really isn't. A lot of men would rather live with the illusion of being the leader then the reality of shared power.

I'm a bad actress so I've never been able to pull this off (and honestly not sure I would want to), but I've seen a few women do this and it seems to work for them. Basically it seems to involve giving him enough information to make good decisions and then letting him take full credit for them. Not criticizing him openly when he messes up in order for him to safe face, and heaping on the praise.

Seriously, I just don't think I can do this (makes me want to actually), but the women I've seen who can do this often have their men eating out of their hands.

the best advice I've ever gotten was from a Ugandan woman. She told me, "It is the wise woman that allows her man to be the smart one." She has so much wisdom. I wish I was still in her company.

This is very true. In all honesty, men just CANNOT run the family. They just cant do it. I hate to say it but its true. Ask any married woman and she will tell you, let a man take the reigns and things will be tangled up to high heaven.

At our core, we as women are nesters/nurturers and men are the hunter/protectors. This is what I believe. We have our roles and when we find our true match/mate, we are yin/yang.

 

[Theo]

i wouldn't mind letting a man take charge. i do enough working and thinking and stressing at work/school. i would like to have one area of my life where everything is taken care of.

 

[dlewis]

Grandma on Soul Food gave some stupid advice.

 

[MissMasala5]

What I've seen a lot of women do is allow a man to act like he's in charge even though underneath it all they both know he really isn't. A lot of men would rather live with the illusion of being the leader then the reality of shared power.

I'm a bad actress so I've never been able to pull this off (and honestly not sure I would want to), but I've seen a few women do this and it seems to work for them. Basically it seems to involve giving him enough information to make good decisions and then letting him take full credit for them. Not criticizing him openly when he messes up in order for him to safe face, and heaping on the praise.

Seriously, I just don't think I can do this (makes me want to actually), but the women I've seen who can do this often have their men eating out of their hands.

Not all men need this kind of "coddling" all of the time, but when they do, and you care enough about him and the relationship, it just isn't that hard to do. It's not forced, nor contrived when the fit is right. Moreover, sometimes some things can simply be left unsaid. Sometimes we can let negative opinions or criticisms stay in our heads and cut them off before they reach our tongues. We can give appreciation and praise because it's sincere and genuine. Or we can do it because at a particular moment, he needs to hear it because it may help make him feel confident about something he may be at odds with. It's not a stretch to praise a colleague or employee to promote productivity and teamwork, so it shouldn't be that hard to do with a mate to promote positivity and well-being in the relationship.

 

[dlewis]

Not all men need this kind of "coddling" all of the time, but when they do, and you care enough about him and the relationship, it just isn't that hard to do. It's not forced, nor contrived when the fit is right. Moreover, sometimes some things can simply be left unsaid. Sometimes we can let negative opinions or criticisms stay in our heads and cut them off before they reach our tongues. We can give appreciation and praise because it's sincere and genuine. Or we can do it because at a particular moment, he needs to hear it because it may help make him feel confident about something he may be at odds with. It's not a stretch to praise a colleague or employee to promote productivity and teamwork, so it shouldn't be that hard to do with a mate to promote positivity and well-being in the relationship.

Great advice. I know this and still struggle with it at times. I have to remind myself all the time.

 

[ambergirl]

Not all men need this kind of "coddling" all of the time, but when they do, and you care enough about him and the relationship, it just isn't that hard to do. It's not forced, nor contrived when the fit is right. Moreover, sometimes some things can simply be left unsaid. Sometimes we can let negative opinions or criticisms stay in our heads and cut them off before they reach our tongues. We can give appreciation and praise because it's sincere and genuine. Or we can do it because at a particular moment, he needs to hear it because it may help make him feel confident about something he may be at odds with. It's not a stretch to praise a colleague or employee to promote productivity and teamwork, so it shouldn't be that hard to do with a mate to promote positivity and well-being in the relationship.

Agree with you completely and I have no problem with this at all. What you're describing is a healthy, respectful, caring relationship between two adults where I'm assuming hubby is also mindful of his tongue and criticisms. But what I typically see is not that healthy.

 

[kmn1980]

I don't know. How can you "let" somebody be something they are already supposed to be ? A man, if he is a man, will be a man on his own without any poking and prodding.

When I hear that phrase, my mind goes to the bossy woman who is having to lead her SO/DH around on a leash because she can't trust him to make adult decisions. To that I say, she chose the wrong man. [Judge Judy]Choose betta'[/Judge Judy].

 

[Spiffy]

^^^Exactly! When I hear this phrase or it's close variation 'women won't let men be a man' coming from a man I see a red alert.

 

[Guitarhero]

What I've seen a lot of women do is allow a man to act like he's in charge even though underneath it all they both know he really isn't. A lot of men would rather live with the illusion of being the leader then the reality of shared power.

I'm a bad actress so I've never been able to pull this off (and honestly not sure I would want to), but I've seen a few women do this and it seems to work for them. Basically it seems to involve giving him enough information to make good decisions and then letting him take full credit for them. Not criticizing him openly when he messes up in order for him to safe face, and heaping on the praise.

Seriously, I just don't think I can do this (makes me want to actually), but the women I've seen who can do this often have their men eating out of their hands.

Like Big Fat Greek Wedding..."the man is the head and the woman is the neck...and she can turn the head in whichever direction she wants." My problem is that I need fast results and am too literal. What's a neck if the head is stupid and worthless? I can never act like that...must be my partial A$$perger's disease

 

[Guitarhero]

^^^Exactly! When I hear this phrase or it's close variation 'women won't let men be a man' coming from a man I see a red alert.

Well, it's not an issue of seeing a red alert, but it's more of looking around and seeing how women have allowed men to already take charge...to their detriment. There are too many who have ended up in the dumps from allowing a man to take charge when she should have taken more care....which led me to ask the question if a woman should just give up her equal place in the council of marriage. From the evidence around me, no. If men are making horrible decisions and not naturally taking charge and protecting their families and the offspring they produce, why on earth are women allowing them to control their destinies? I think too many people are playing house when they should get serious and sit at the table equally (esp. unmarried couples). Most cannot afford to leave such important decisions about womb, offspring, finances etc. to the increasing low-caliber man out there now. Lawd...lawd...imho.

 

[MissMasala5]

Well, it's not an issue of seeing a red alert, but it's more of looking around and seeing how women have allowed men to already take charge...to their detriment. There are too many who have ended up in the dumps from allowing a man to take charge when she should have taken more care....which led me to ask the question if a woman should just give up her equal place in the council of marriage. From the evidence around me, no. If men are making horrible decisions and not naturally taking charge and protecting their families and the offspring they produce, why on earth are women allowing them to control their destinies? I think too many people are playing house when they should get serious and sit at the table equally (esp. unmarried couples). Most cannot afford to leave such important decisions about womb, offspring, finances etc. to the increasing low-caliber man out there now. Lawd...lawd...imho.

Good gracious, V_A_G, where are you seeing these examples? Your post is talking about some serious dysfunction that is of a level where a topic such as this one can't even come into play, really.

 

[Guitarhero]

From my OP...I started off with the situation that so many single women have fallen into and it seems to me they were honestly playing house and allowing this "decision-maker" ruin things.

"ow and why or why not? Any middle ground? My thoughts are haven't many women already made men feel like they're in control and manly (albeit, sexual prowess is mostly on the mind)? Perhaps a little backwards, though. Because so many men are in control of womens' wombs and lives. But if they feel like the "big man," why don't they put a ring to it (ideally, first) and stick around to raise their children, even those who've married? There are good men and there are bad men. Is being in charge and delegating responsibility to them truly the issue? Partially the issue? "


Then I just expanded generally to all relationships, maybe more towards the married ones. Either single and dating, single or shacking or married...question was raised about allowing the male to make decisions over the female. I'm not getting examples from those who responded with their own families...how did you read that into it? LOL. No...go back to the first. I look around here, there and everywhere. Low-caliber man...that would definitely be the baby-daddies out there that women have allowed to control the situation to their detriment. I think it's still "letting a man be a man" kinda mentality. Some is great when you have balanced people...some of it is quite disastrous as evidenced by unwed births etc. Serious dysfunction...yes, indeed...it's out there and I think some of it is due to women not taking charge in those situations. It's still the same question no matter the circumstances or structure of the relationship....Should women allow men to take charge?

 

[MissMasala5]

From my OP...I started off with the situation that so many single women have fallen into and it seems to me they were honestly playing house and allowing this "decision-maker" ruin things.

This sounds like a specific situation. I'm sure that it's not at all isolated, and happens a lot, but I have seen couples equally do themselves in with things like dishonesty, cheating, misunderstandings and ineffective communication.

"ow and why or why not? Any middle ground? My thoughts are haven't many women already made men feel like they're in control and manly (albeit, sexual prowess is mostly on the mind)? Perhaps a little backwards, though. Because so many men are in control of womens' wombs and lives. But if they feel like the "big man," why don't they put a ring to it (ideally, first) and stick around to raise their children, even those who've married? There are good men and there are bad men. Is being in charge and delegating responsibility to them truly the issue? Partially the issue? "

I am not understanding the bold. Most of my experiences with "controlling wombs" has been of women being in control, e.g. getting pregnant without planning to, and having these children whether the men were on board or not. Women have way more contraceptive options than men, thus, giving them the upper hand as to whether to get pregnant or not. I don't believe any woman could possibly get pregnant if she really didn't want to. And, abortions are still legal and available. Some women could get one without ever telling the men they had conceived. Likewise, women may also keep their BC methods to themselves, the whole while their partners are trying to get them pregnant.

Then I just expanded generally to all relationships, maybe more towards the married ones. Either single and dating, single or shacking or married...question was raised about allowing the male to make decisions over the female. I'm not getting examples from those who responded with their own families...how did you read that into it? LOL. No...go back to the first. I look around here, there and everywhere. Low-caliber man...that would definitely be the baby-daddies out there that women have allowed to control the situation to their detriment. I think it's still "letting a man be a man" kinda mentality. Some is great when you have balanced people...some of it is quite disastrous as evidenced by unwed births etc. Serious dysfunction...yes, indeed...it's out there and I think some of it is due to women not taking charge in those situations. It's still the same question no matter the circumstances or structure of the relationship....Should women allow men to take charge?

You have to know that for every "low-caliber" man out there, there are about two silly-arse women for him and like usually attracts like. We can sit here all day talking about their dysfunction--Why bother trying to make sense out of stupidity? You can't. People have always made poor choices in mates and fugged up their own homes and relationships, since the dawn of man and will continue to do so into the future. There is nothing anyone can do about that except try your best to avoid that by making good choices to the best of your ability.

 

[Guitarhero]

I think we can find a way to better society. I just look at the state of things and try to figure them out to find a solution and promote it. It just seemed to me that far too many women left their brains at the door and allowed them to just take over everything and this by women who haven't got a marriage....shocking to me and that's what I mean by "playing house." They are giving far too much control for a minute of attention. Of course, I think this attitude is the result of this idea of submission just to keep a guy from screaming at you, leaving or worse. If they only truly comprehended what submission is truly about....

Low-caliber men...and yes, women but often more, women are just naive and duped, making stupid decisions. LOL....no, it's not a specific situation about my life at all.

 

[Syrah]

Well, it's not an issue of seeing a red alert, but it's more of looking around and seeing how women have allowed men to already take charge...to their detriment. There are too many who have ended up in the dumps from allowing a man to take charge when she should have taken more care....which led me to ask the question if a woman should just give up her equal place in the council of marriage. From the evidence around me, no. If men are making horrible decisions and not naturally taking charge and protecting their families and the offspring they produce, why on earth are women allowing them to control their destinies? I think too many people are playing house when they should get serious and sit at the table equally (esp. unmarried couples). Most cannot afford to leave such important decisions about womb, offspring, finances etc. to the increasing low-caliber man out there now. Lawd...lawd...imho.

Sounds like the women you speak of aren't with the right man for them. A man shows you how he takes charge while dating.

Is he a talker ("baby we should go on a trip?") or a doer ("baby, we should go on a trip - so I looked at flights and hotels - how about you get your plane ticket and I'll take care of the hotel").

Is he reactive ("damn, you didn't tell me you were gonna be so busy") or proactive ("so I know you mentioned you're gonna be busy this week, so lets plan to have dinner on X so I can get a little time with you")? Does he express his expectations or does he wait for you to guess? Does he value you independence (need for time/space away from him) or does he see that as a threat/opportunity?

I have no problem following his lead in specific circumstances, because in a year of dating he's shown himself to be more than capable and I am ok following his lead. The deceptive liars aside, if you're paying attention while dating there shouldn't be THAT many surprises later on in your relationship.

To the notions of "increasing low-caliber men out there", it sounds like folks need to change whom they surround themselves with. Where are you meeting men that has got you so down about the prospects out there?

 

[Syrah]

I think we can find a way to better society. I just look at the state of things and try to figure them out to find a solution and promote it. It just seemed to me that far too many women left their brains at the door and allowed them to just take over everything and this by women who haven't got a marriage....shocking to me and that's what I mean by "playing house." They are giving far too much control for a minute of attention. Of course, I think this attitude is the result of this idea of submission just to keep a guy from screaming at you, leaving or worse. If they only truly comprehended what submission is truly about....

Low-caliber men...and yes, women but often more, women are just naive and duped, making stupid decisions. LOL....no, it's not a specific situation about my life at all.

I'm going to start by saying I get what you're coming from.

HOWEVER - I think the logic is circular. And I'll explain why. There's three things that lead women to silly relationships:

1. The belief that "Good Men" are few and far between
2. The belief that the chances of meeting and keeping a good man are slim
3. That A MAN is better than NO MAN

With that logic, you find women in silly relationships with stupid men wondering "how'd I get here?" when in reality its their own beliefs about men, relationships and their ability to secure the relationship they desire that lead them to these circumstances.

I get back to expectations. If you have expectations, realistic expectations, and stick to them, unless the man is uber-deceptive, there should be no reason why a woman wakes up and finds herself like "wait...who dis is?". Not stupid expectations about the car he drives and his height, skin color and workout routine (there's a difference between wanting a man "who values fitness" and a man with a six pack stomach) but realistic ones that speak to a man's goals and character.

I dunno - I look at US as women and think a lot of the state of men has to do with us.

 

[MD_Lady]

I agree 100% with this

...Being a smart wife is not necessarily being one who has to live with his stupid choices and all the resulting difficulties. Female empowerment isn't about cruel domination.

Both men and women need to empower themselves - not giving up too much and not controlling too much but working together towards unity. If either party feels unappreciated, s/he should definitely look within to make sure the cause is not self due to a lack of personal development. Men and women complement each other naturally in nature but their gender traits and roles shouldn't prevent either one from assuming responsibility. Let the bigger "man" step forward in any given situation and if the other feels the lesser, let "him" develop himself and step it up...

But this, not so much...

...But we all know that, ultimately, it's going to be women who will often have to defer to a man's fragile ego to make peace when he could equally swallow his false pride...

Women "know" this because so many do this. If women would stop treating justified conflict like a fate worse than death, what choice would men have but to swallow their false pride? I try to foster peace in my relationship as much as the next woman and, IMO/E, getting over yourself is a HUGE part of that. I can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't be happy putting on the big girl pants only to treat DH like he's made of glass.