Jouelzy - So Over the Natural Hair Community & Texture Discrimination 4c

[tinkat]

I don't think it's about resisting anything...there's nothing wrong in asking a simple question. This is coming from someone who has kinky hair and I remember the original system but as time has progress I have learned that hair typing is pointless bc my hair is a mixture of the "4 type" which I love. My coils are a variety of kinks and coils and its healthiest state it's tightly coiled.

 

[CocoGlow]

I don't think it's about resisting anything...there's nothing wrong in asking a simple question. This is coming from someone who has kinky hair and I remember the original system but as time has progress I have learned that hair typing is pointless bc my hair is a mixture of the "4 type" which I love. My coils are a variety of kinks and coils and its healthiest state it's tightly coiled.

tinkat

I hope I don't come across too defensive sis, I've been around a long time and notice trends, but I'm sorry if it came across like I was negatively accusing everyone asking questions about the existence of 4C hair.



Fortunately you may not be familiar with the resistance but I remember when the term 4C first came out and people have been sort of rolling their eyes ever since LOL . Some people ask genuine questions and others are very dismissive on forums, blogs and Youtube. People didn't side-eye the "need" for a 3C category nearly as much.

I think some people have a negative reaction to it because they assume people are trying to "out-napp" others or labeling their hair with a complaining spirit like "Girl I got them 4C-4ZZZZZ napps - the worst of the worst!" Some do feel that way though but not all - some simply wanted a category that best represented their hair.

True, most of us have a mixture of hair types & textures on our heads with one of them usually being the dominant one but I feel like the hair typing systems are just tools to find others with hair that may look similar to ours and get some style inspiration. So while I don't think it is a pointless system, I don't think it is the biggest factor in natural hair care either - not even close

 

[mssoconfused]

A little off topic...I went to a natural hair event last night and there was one lady in the group that was transitioning. She had NO idea how to take care of her hair and was noticing a lot of breakage along her line of demarcation. The curl expert, a hairdresser, speaker suggested she get one of those texture manageability systems for her transition in order to straighten her hair. All I could think was...but...isnt the point....never mind.

 

[cutiebe2]

I remember when 4C or "c-napp" came out, it somehow was made out to be some strange revolutions/extremist type thing. As if some women just went AWOL on what we had established was natural hair textures. That could also just be my interpretation.

As I read more about 4c, I am confused on what my hair is. My hair has ALWAYS be described as cottony, when I was young hair dressers and everyone said my hair looked like cotton. At the same time it is very soft, thin, and fine so I don't connect to the coarse hair texture that most women have. Either way I don't say I have curly hair, because I have very few curls.

 

[niknakmac]

4c is real. Whether you understand it or not it does exist. It has zero curl more of a z pattern and does not wash n go no matter how much MHM you try to use b/c there isn't a curl. DD has apl stretched 4c. Unstretched it is about ear length. This category was simply created for those who did not fit into the already existing categories. I don't see what is so confusing about this. I see truly 4c hair all over pinterest.

 

[ckisland]

4c is real. Whether you understand it or not it does exist. It has zero curl more of a z pattern and does not wash n go no matter how much MHM you try to use b/c there isn't a curl. DD has apl stretched 4c. Unstretched it is about ear length. This category was simply created for those who did not fit into the already existing category. I don't see what is so confusing about this. I see truly 4c hair all over pinterest.

Thank you!!!
4c isn't dry 4b. The assumption that your hair isn't clumping together because your doing something wrong and because it's not moisturized to the max, has caused continue frustration among naturals who's hair won't do that. That's why the new category was created, and that's why ladies went (supposedly) hard for it.

A kink and a curl aren't actually the same thing. One can exist without the other. Most of my hair clumps. The level of clump varies, and much work areas need in order to clump varies, but I have patches that will not clump (without twisting or braiding). It doesn't clump while slathered in condish. It doesn't clump no matter how much gel I put on it. I have 4b sections, and I can get tiny coils there. But these 4c patches aren't dry, they're just pure kink.

 

[*Frisky*]

4c is real. Whether you understand it or not it does exist. It has zero curl more of a z pattern and does not wash n go no matter how much MHM you try to use b/c there isn't a curl. DD has apl stretched 4c. Unstretched it is about ear length. This category was simply created for those who did not fit into the already existing category. I don't see what is so confusing about this. I see truly 4c hair all over pinterest.

I think 4c can wash and go with the processes like everybody else it will just look different like you said. More of a z pattern instead of a curl or the curl is so tight you can't really see it. I don't know why people get so butt hurt if someone wants to classify their hair has 4c but I do see people saying their hair is 4c and it's not. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

[Kaitlynrs91]

Y'all make me curious about my own hair.. I did 1 wash n go in my life and I've been natural about 7-8 years.. However I live in perpetual heat damage lol one day I'll see all my hair damage free and then I'll see my hair for what it is. Anyways i also see 4c hair quite a bit actually. But I understand wanting to have all options being available to you when your natural. Otherwise some people will question the purpose of going natural in the first place

 

[Crackers Phinn]

I remember when 4C or "c-napp" came out, it somehow was made out to be some strange revolutions/extremist type thing. As if some women just went AWOL on what we had established was natural hair textures. That could also just be my interpretation.

I agree. From jump 4C was marketed as the 'Keep it real in the struggle' hair. It's the roughest-toughest, rootinest-tootitinest, most ornery hair in this game son! (said in Dave Chappelle black president voice).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have 4a/b hair that dries out quick and ties itself in multiple knots on a single strand when I wear it loose. Tried wearing it loose on and off for 6 years and ended up having to cut off more length than I should have had to. So now I flat twist it, spritz it, throw a wig on and call it a day.

The default thought about naturals wearing wigs is self hate, but it's a lie that natural hair is easy to deal with. Knots are not natural. Knots cause tangling and breakage. Knots do not make the hair stronger. Telling people to embrace knots is like telling them to embrace jagged fingernails. But it all gets stirred up in this self hate/wannabe white pot, which is unfair and unhelpful.

 

[BillsBackerz67]

I agree. From jump 4C was marketed as the 'Keep it real in the struggle' hair. It's the roughest-toughest, rootinest-tootitinest, most ornery hair in this game son! (said in Dave Chappelle black president voice). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I have 4a/b hair that dries out quick and ties itself in multiple knots on a single strand when I wear it loose. Tried wearing it loose on and off for 6 years and ended up having to cut off more length than I should have had to. So now I flat twist it, spritz it, throw a wig on and call it a day. The default thought about naturals wearing wigs is self hate, but it's a lie that natural hair is easy to deal with. Knots are not natural. Knots cause tangling and breakage. Knots do not make the hair stronger. Telling people to embrace knots is like telling them to embrace jagged fingernails. But it all gets stirred up in this self hate/wannabe white pot, which is unfair and unhelpful.

Crackers Phinn same struggle but I'm in the type 3 category. The only thing that solves my dryness, breakage and severe knotting issue is frequently trimming which I refuse to do, relaxing, or staying natural and flat ironing every 2 weeks.

 

[FemmeFatale]

Interesting thread, yes 4C hair is real and exists. I have 4b/c hair and I'm texlaxed because it makes my life much easier. It is super course, dense, and thick with low porosity. Some similar to Rudy Huxtable's hair when she was a kid, maybe a wee less dense.

Now Is there a huge market out there for pure 4c hair? Barely. Most naturals chase curls. My baby sister has my dads 3C/4A hair and her hair stash knocks me out the water! Lol.

 

[tinkat]

Well based on the descriptions of 4a 4b 4c, I have all three in my hair. One thing I have learned is that you have to really learn what works for you. I also learned that I have to treat certain areas of my hair differently. Thanks to YouTube and websites, i have learned some great tips and do agree that there are not as many 4 type on YouTube, etc.

 

[Kurlee]

4c is real. Whether you understand it or not it does exist. It has zero curl more of a z pattern and does not wash n go no matter how much MHM you try to use b/c there isn't a curl. DD has apl stretched 4c. Unstretched it is about ear length. This category was simply created for those who did not fit into the already existing categories. I don't see what is so confusing about this. I see truly 4c hair all over pinterest.

thanks for the explanation. My confusion is that it sounds like how 4b used to be described, so I'm like

 

[tinkat]

thanks for the explanation. My confusion is that it sounds like how 4b used to be described, so I'm like

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[almond eyes]

I really hate hair typing but I can see how it can be helpful to some but not me, my hair is a a true combo of spongey and curly curls. My hair can be a surprise especially depending on what products I put on my hair and if my hair has a good moisture routine going on. And my natural hair when it is short you can't see any curl formation and when it is begins to hang the curl formation is obvious. I am more interested in conquering hair porosity and so far I have begun to understand how to do this. The parts of my hair that are the so called '4c' are in the front edges.

I remember a Kenyan woman calling my hair that strange hair texture that she couldn't stand because she felt that good African hair was tightly coiled with no obvious curl pattern. Mine she was was funny hair. I was like we are always as human beings finding a divide.

Best,
Almond Eyes

 

[LadyRaider]

I do think the unconscious aspect of the problem is a key piece here. I think there are natural women (maybe a lot, maybe not) who are telling the world how much they love all hair textures, but their youtube and instagram follows tell a different story. It isn't socially acceptable to admit that you prefer/wish you had more caucasian features, but plenty of women still do, even if they'd never ever say it.

There's a girl who says her sunscreen is for her health, but deep down just doesn't want to get darker. There's a girl who swears her four hour max hydration method is for healthy hair, but really she just wants curls. Are these people the majority? Of course not. Is wearing sunscreen or doing the MHM a bad thing? Of course not. But our posts and likes and 'preferences' (both real and defensive) don't exist in a vacuum - they intersect with an ongoing societal discussion about what's acceptable and the message rings loud and clear.

now don't yell at me

This is an old thread, but the new message board software decided I needed an alert about it, so I thought I'd pass on the good fortune.

Black people do not wear sunscreen to keep from getting darker. You wear it to keep from getting dark spots!!! Please wear your sunscreen. A little gay man in Sephora told me that, and it changed my life.

 

[ForestRose]

Gonna add to this too lol. Always wear sunscreen and don't buy into the myth that black people can't get sun burnt.

 

[Evolving78]

A little off topic...I went to a natural hair event last night and there was one lady in the group that was transitioning. She had NO idea how to take care of her hair and was noticing a lot of breakage along her line of demarcation. The curl expert, a hairdresser, speaker suggested she get one of those texture manageability systems for her transition in order to straighten her hair. All I could think was...but...isnt the point....never mind.

I like those! They are very helpful with managing the two textures. You aren't confusing that with a texturizer are you?

 

[BostonMaria]

A little off topic...I went to a natural hair event last night and there was one lady in the group that was transitioning. She had NO idea how to take care of her hair and was noticing a lot of breakage along her line of demarcation. The curl expert, a hairdresser, speaker suggested she get one of those texture manageability systems for her transition in order to straighten her hair. All I could think was...but...isnt the point....never mind.

Sorry I'm responding one year later LOL

This is why I stopped taking advice and instead paid attention to what my hair liked/disliked. How awful of that hairdresser to give her bad advice like that.

 

[Evolving78]

4c hair once hydrated can handle a lot more than any other texture out there. My dd has 3b/c and I have 4a. Because of the curls and coils, we struggle with tangles, ssks, etc... That whole defining curls thing isn't needed around here. It's more about manageability! 4c hair has the best blow outs, twist outs, Bantu knot out, braids, rope like two strand twists, fros, etc... When they straighten their hair, it looks so thick and healthy, since most have high density.
New naturals that get in their feels about their new empowerment grate my nerves. Hair is hair. Do what you please with it. I'm all about self love, but keep that other crap to yourself.

 

[Evolving78]

Sorry I'm responding one year later LOL

This is why I stopped taking advice and instead paid attention to what my hair liked/disliked. How awful of that hairdresser to give her bad advice like that.

How was that bad advice? It isn't permanent and give the lady and option to help with transitioning? I don't want to come off argumentive, But I wonder why some naturals got a problem with TMS products?

 

[BostonMaria]

How was that bad advice? It isn't permanent and give the lady and option to help with transitioning? I don't want to come off argumentive, But I wonder why some naturals got a problem with TMS products?

Are you a representative? Because you sound mad LOL

Its not bad advice per say, but it is not as helpful because some people have suffered breakage with the TMS products. I personally would never advise someone that's transitioning to go from one chemical to another. That's just me.

 

[Evolving78]

Are you a representative? Because you sound mad LOL

Its not bad advice per say, but it is not as helpful because some people have suffered breakage with the TMS products. I personally would never advise someone that's transitioning to go from one chemical to another. That's just me.

No I'm not mad, and I would love to be a representative! A lot of people with kinkier textures suffer breakage during transitioning period. Imo it can be very helpful and has helped transitioners. A lot of transitioners have recommended TMS products and their hair has thrived. I think using excessive amounts of heat with these products may be an issue, but folks that don't use them still suffer from heat damage. I just don't see how the stylist offering an option was bad advice. You have natural nazis that that are against anything they feel is against the grain. If you don't big chop right away and use heat, then you aren't loving yourself and embracing your natural texture.

 

[nothidden]

No I'm not mad, and I would love to be a representative! A lot of people with kinkier textures suffer breakage during transitioning period. Imo it can be very helpful and has helped transitioners. A lot of transitioners have recommended TMS products and their hair has thrived. I think using excessive amounts of heat with these products may be an issue, but folks that don't use them still suffer from heat damage. I just don't see how the stylist offering an option was bad advice. You have natural nazis that that are against anything they feel is against the grain. If you don't big chop right away and use heat, then you aren't loving yourself and embracing your natural texture.

Maybe the assumption is that TMS products are chemicals or like texturizers. I don't know what they are but my first thought was 'texturizer' + transitioning doesn't add up.

 

[Evolving78]

Maybe the assumption is that TMS products are chemicals or like texturizers. I don't know what they are but my first thought was 'texturizer' + transitioning doesn't add up.

It's just a product, similar to a keratin treatment, or is one. I have tried a couple so far, and my texture is still the same after using a sulfate shampoo. Shea moisture has one that I would like to try very soon! It seems to be the new bandwagon with hair companies. Just like argan oil, Shea butter, coconut oil, cleansing creams, etc...

 

[nothidden]

It's just a product, similar to a keratin treatment, or is one. I have tried a couple so far, and my texture is still the same after using a sulfate shampoo. Shea moisture has one that I would like to try very soon! It seems to be the new bandwagon with hair companies. Just like argan oil, Shea butter, coconut oil, cleansing creams, etc...

Oh, get out...like a keratin treatment. OK.

Sounded like she needed some kind of protein treatment w/breakage at the demarcation point.

And I must say this has to be the most interesting thread I've encountered on this forum. Some of the comments...

 

[BostonMaria]

No I'm not mad, and I would love to be a representative! A lot of people with kinkier textures suffer breakage during transitioning period. Imo it can be very helpful and has helped transitioners. A lot of transitioners have recommended TMS products and their hair has thrived. I think using excessive amounts of heat with these products may be an issue, but folks that don't use them still suffer from heat damage. I just don't see how the stylist offering an option was bad advice. You have natural nazis that that are against anything they feel is against the grain. If you don't big chop right away and use heat, then you aren't loving yourself and embracing your natural texture.

If you do a search on this forum and see the horror stories on the TMS products and other similar Brazilian Keratin Treatments you'd see why some of us think this way. I'm definitely not a natural hair nazi LOL If you look at my avatar you'd see I straighten with a flatiron with no apologies. I personally wouldn't tell someone to use TMS products, but people should go ahead and do whatever feels right.

 

[Evolving78]

If you do a search on this forum and see the horror stories on the TMS products and other similar Brazilian Keratin Treatments you'd see why some of us think this way. I'm definitely not a natural hair nazi LOL If you look at my avatar you'd see I straighten with a flatiron with no apologies. I personally wouldn't tell someone to use TMS products, but people should go ahead and do whatever feels right.

I'm an old head on this site, so I know you aren't that way at all. That comment wasn't directed towards you, or any of the other ladies. Just speaking from a general standpoint.

 

[Evolving78]

Oh, get out...like a keratin treatment. OK.

Sounded like she needed some kind of protein treatment w/breakage at the demarcation point.

And I must say this has to be the most interesting thread I've encountered on this forum. Some of the comments...

I agree. She could have went more into depth and made that a teachable moment.

 

[BostonMaria]

I'm an old head on this site, so I know you aren't that way at all. That comment wasn't directed towards you, or any of the other ladies. Just speaking from a general standpoint.

Its OK I didn't take offense to it