Is type 4b hair uncommon?

[anon123]

Who's claiming 4B that isn't? I am sorry I didn't read the whole thread so might've missed it but so far the only person I found who may not be 4B wasn't insisting she was 4B. It seemed she just didn't know and immediately accepted she might be a 3. So I dunno where these people y'all seeing who are insisting they are 4B when they aren't are. I think it's that definition of "no definition" that throws people off. Or the assumption that 4B hair is frizzy so the minute a 3C/4A person has dry frizzy hair she assumes she's 4B. IMO 4A/B and 4B are so similar that it can be easy to mistake them. Likewise 4A and 4A/B are so similar that again the confusion can be there. So if a 4A/B person chooses to call herself 4A or 4B, I don't think it's that big of a deal. *shrug*

I see very few people claiming something that is so far and away from what their type is/might be. I don't see these people, either? Typing is hard! Mostly because the definitions out there don't make any sense. Look at this thread! Yeah, I've seen it, but very very rarely.

 

[Nonie]

I didn't say in that post that my hair type was 'z'. I was just showing a 'z'. And to be fair, there are probably as many z's in there as o's. There are more 5's there than anything else.

The thing is, I will not see perfect coils without manipulation, either. I need manipulation to get those, too. If I don't manipulate, it will just tangle in a jumble and lock and mat up. I have to do a version of shingling to get anything resembling a perfect coil. So how do we decide that one form of manipulation is your true hair, but another form isn't? My hair growing in perfect coils is more theoretical than real life.

The thing people don't seem to get it is tangling/locking/matting happens because coils exist. And the diameter of the strands and the size of the coils make it behave that way. If our hairs grew in rows like corn, you would be able to see the coils naturally. The reason you have to do a version of shingling to see the coils isn't because your hair wouldn't automatically go to that but because your manipulate your hair so much styling it that it takes a while for it to spring back to that. You use brushes, you use combs. I don't. I haven't used a comb since April when I pressed my hair and don't plan on doing it till next year when I undo my braids. So that's why when I wet my hair it turns into circles. I washed my braids the day before yesterday and while I normally wait for it to dry before redoing some braids, my HIH kicked in and I undid one that was still damp, the hair coiled into cute circles. Remember my hair is bare so that's as natural as it can get since I won't use milk and berries.

Trust me, you do not need to do a version of shingling to get that look. You just need to condition your hair, comb it even with conditioner in it but only this time, then rinse so water runs through it and use fingers to keep strands separated and from fold down on themselves. So you may need to tilt your head or use your fingers to hold the hair in a way that it won't curl back down till it dries. Then leave your hair alone (Of course do this on a small section coz it'd be quite a feat to do the experiment on a whole head). Do that another day on the same section that you left well alone and again fingers only separate strands and let it dry. You may say using fingers is manipulating but the alternative is to let it just fold back on itself in the coils that form naturally and then cut off the lump and let's examine it. I bet my bottom dollar your hair will come to rest in its most natural form. I dare say that the people who have never seen coils in their hair are people who brush or comb their hair a lot and always have it in some do that keeps the hair stretched.

 

[knt1229]

I went over to naturally curly http://www.naturallycurly.com/hair-types and read the definition of 4b hair. Here are some direct quotes from the addendum located at the bottom of the page:

4b hair has a tighter wave pattern and kinks of various size. This texture does not exhibit the shine or silkiness of looser type curls, but instead has sheen, and a soft, almost cotton-like feel

And this quote pulled from the primary description:

Type 4 hair appears to be coarse, but it is actually quite fine, with lots and lots of this strands densely packed together. Healthy Type 4 hair won't shine, but it will have sheen. It will be soft to the touch

Type 4B, which has a "Z" pattern, less of a defined curl pattern (instead of curling or coiling, the hair bends in sharp angles like the letter "Z").

Everyone is hungup on the "Z" pattern part of the description when the most important part of the definition is the less defined curl pattern part which means there is definition but it is not as prominent as the other hair types. 4b hair doesn't form a full "S" but instead flattens and looks more like a "Z" or a number 5 and shows up in the hair as waves. The "Z" pattern looks like the pattern of a braid out only not as defined. It's the krinkly roots that 4b's have.

For the most part the 4b definiton resembles what many of the 4b ladies, myself included, have said about our hair. The definition even addresses the small coils that many of the 4b ladies have in their photos.

It is not rare hair or uncommon. But if you take the description literally and expect to see the letter "Z" hanging from someone's head then you would think it's uncommon.

 

[AfroKink]

I have a slightly different take on the OP's question than what was presented here. I've been known to say that type 4b is the rarest hair type around. I think type 4a/b is the most common hair type among people of African descent. "Pure" 4a and 4b are probably equally prevelant. But when I think about hair types I think outside of the African population. I am yet to see a non-afroid person with 4b hair. Of those presented to me, they closest non-afriod people get is 4a. What I'm saying is that type 4a and the lower numbers are more common world wide when you add in other races or ethnicities.

Worldwide, I beleive 4b is the rarest and somewhere in the 2b-3a family is probably most common.

 

[Neith]

I have a slightly different take on the OP's question than what was presented here. I've been known to say that type 4b is the rarest hair type around. I think type 4a/b is the most common hair type among people of African descent. "Pure" 4a and 4b are probably equally prevelant. But when I think about hair types I think outside of the African population. I am yet to see a non-afroid person with 4b hair. Of those presented to me, they closest non-afriod people get is 4a. What I'm saying is that type 4a and the lower numbers are more common world wide when you add in other races or ethnicities.

Worldwide, I beleive 4b is the rarest and somewhere in the 2b-3a family is probably most common.

That's an interesting conclusion. Do you have any sources, or is this your educated guess?

 

[AfroKink]

That's an interesting conclusion. Do you have any sources, or is this your educated guess?

It's a very NONeducated guess

 

[laurend]

I have a slightly different take on the OP's question than what was presented here. I've been known to say that type 4b is the rarest hair type around. I think type 4a/b is the most common hair type among people of African descent. "Pure" 4a and 4b are probably equally prevelant. But when I think about hair types I think outside of the African population. I am yet to see a non-afroid person with 4b hair. Of those presented to me, they closest non-afriod people get is 4a. What I'm saying is that type 4a and the lower numbers are more common world wide when you add in other races or ethnicities.

Worldwide, I beleive 4b is the rarest and somewhere in the 2b-3a family is probably most common.

You are right, you probably find the most(4b) in South Africa and the most(2b) populous people are from China and India.

 

[anon123]

The thing people don't seem to get it is tangling/locking/matting happens because coils exist.

Trust me, you do not need to do a version of shingling to get that look. You just need to condition your hair, comb it even with conditioner in it but only this time, then rinse so water runs through it and use fingers to keep strands separated and from fold down on themselves. So you may need to tilt your head or use your fingers to hold the hair in a way that it won't curl back down till it dries. Then leave your hair alone (Of course do this on a small section coz it'd be quite a feat to do the experiment on a whole head). Do that another day on the same section that you left well alone and again fingers only separate strands and let it dry. You may say using fingers is manipulating but the alternative is to let it just fold back on itself in the coils that form naturally and then cut off the lump and let's examine it. I bet my bottom dollar your hair will come to rest in its most natural form. I dare say that the people who have never seen coils in their hair are people who brush or comb their hair a lot and always have it in some do that keeps the hair stretched.

As to the first bolded, it is very possible for strands to be kinky-coily and tangle up but for the strands to not clump into bigger coils/curls. I see it all the time.

The experiment you suggest is exactly what I did on my bangs for nearly a week. If I don't use fingers, the clumping is considerably less. The strands themselves are still coily and curled and bent, but they get together with each other less if I just let them do what they want to do. So my hair does come to rest in its most natural state. But my hair's most natural state is not for all the strands to clump with each other. There is some clumping, but there's also lots of strands that don't get with the program. This is true for most curly hair, which is why people shingle as opposed to just rinsing and letting it curl up as it will.

Think about it. Strands don't grow out of follicles in unison. So imagine one follicle that put out a strand on one day and one right next to it that put out one a month later. What is the likelihood that the follicle is situated in just the right way and it put it out at exactly the right time that the bends of the coils line up perfectly to clump? It happens, but no guarantee that it will. These coils will not naturally clump together. Add to that coils can vary in size by a millimeter and those won't naturally clump together either because they aren't the same size. When you shingle or pull on the strands, you stretch some out so that they can better fit with one next to them.

I think it's also true that because the coil diameter is so small, only a few hairs can get into it anyway, if 2 or 3 don't match the ones next to it, that will mess up the clumping of that whole particular curl. For a bigger diameter of clumped curl, 2 or 3 slightly different strands won't matter much.

 

[carib_n_curly]

i see 4a/b every day and some 4b. i'd say it's pretty common i usually see 4a/b though.
most people have a mix of textures

 

[Nonie]

As to the first bolded, it is very possible for strands to be kinky-coily and tangle up but for the strands to not clump into bigger coils/curls. I see it all the time.

Precisely what I'm saying! It's because 4B is kinky hair (= tightly coiled/curled hair) that it tangles up and knots ups. 4B hair isn't known for clumping the way 4A does as Neith highlighted many moons ago coz the coils are too small to cup each other easily, but it tangles and locks up easily. It's because it has kinks also known as tight coils also known as tight curls that this happens.

ETA: This hair isn't clumping but because of the tiny curls/kinks/naps it can lock and tangle very easily if one isn't careful:

Because it isn't clumping doesn't negate the fact that it is a bunch of coils/curls. Clumping happens more easily the bigger the coil, hence the reason 3's hair clumps more easily than 4A and 4A more easily than 4B.

 

[shamarie]

Does anybody here have a "Z" pattern that I can see. I always heard of it but I never seen it. Does that mean you have a wave pattern vs the curl pattern. TIA

 

[AfroKink]

I offer my head up for public scrutinization. I consider my hair to be type 4b. My strands are definitely coiled. On rare occasions a bunch of strands clump together to form a defined coil. My hair actually loves to clump together, but not in a uniform way. No product or technique I've used in my 6 years of naturalness has ever made defined curls/coils on more than 0.25% of my head. If you hair can acheive coil/curl definition through product usage... you might not be a 4b.

This is a wash-n-fro from a while back. I think it was day 2 or 3 of my wash-n-fro. Note the clumps. Please do not confuse them with curls or coils. Curls/coils begin right from the root and are composed of the hair strands closest to each other. This clumps on my head are the last 1-2 inchs of hair at the ends of the strands and are composed of hair form any part of my head that can reach the clump. You'd actually find that the hairs from two adjacent clump families actually cross closer to the root and you can't actualy seperate out a clump from root to tip.

My hair forms ripples, not waves. I don't have 'deep waves' that people oooh and ahhh over. My ripples are just the stretched out coil. The word "slick" is not in my hair vocabulary. If you have waves that reflect light and blind people in the eye... you might not be a 4b

I don't have many puff pictures because I dont really do puffs. Here are some cornorow shots. If you squint your eyes and tilt your head slightly to the left you can see micro ripples.

This is a shot of my damp hair right after henna. After henna most women talk about how defined their coils/curls have become. so fresh henna + damp hair (should)= poping coils! ... but not for me.

Now I'm of the school of that that says 4a 4a/b and 4b are separated by coil size. 4b is smaller than a pen spring. If a single strand alone forms a curl that is larger than a pen spring... you may not be a 4b

I JUST took this pic for you guys because I was detangling my hair as reading this thread. It's the best I can do without borrowing Nonie's camera lol. The average size of my coils are the one closest to the pen spring. But as you can see I do have even smaller coils.

I hope this helps somebody.
Lys

 

[Nonie]

:notworthy Miss Alyssa, thank you! Your hair is the epitome of 4B. (I think I claimed you as a twin in a thread where folks were posting their hair and I'ma claim you again.)

Thanks so much for posting and especially for your pics.

 

[Nonie]

As to the first bolded, it is very possible for strands to be kinky-coily and tangle up but for the strands to not clump into bigger coils/curls. I see it all the time.

The experiment you suggest is exactly what I did on my bangs for nearly a week. If I don't use fingers, the clumping is considerably less. The strands themselves are still coily and curled and bent, but they get together with each other less if I just let them do what they want to do. So my hair does come to rest in its most natural state. But my hair's most natural state is not for all the strands to clump with each other. There is some clumping, but there's also lots of strands that don't get with the program. This is true for most curly hair, which is why people shingle as opposed to just rinsing and letting it curl up as it will.

Think about it. Strands don't grow out of follicles in unison. So imagine one http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/nincompoopfollicle that put out a strand on one day and one right next to it that put out one a month later. What is the likelihood that the follicle is situated in just the right way and it put it out at exactly the right time that the bends of the coils line up perfectly to clump? It happens, but no guarantee that it will. These coils will not naturally clump together. Add to that coils can vary in size by a millimeter and those won't naturally clump together either because they aren't the same size. When you shingle or pull on the strands, you stretch some out so that they can better fit with one next to them.

I think it's also true that because the coil diameter is so small, only a few hairs can get into it anyway, if 2 or 3 don't match the ones next to it, that will mess up the clumping of that whole particular curl. For a bigger diameter of clumped curl, 2 or 3 slightly different strands won't matter much.

OK, now I see where we were losing each other. You were not saying that your hair doesn't form coils naturally but that it doesn't clump naturally. I agree with that. And yes, to form clumping on many 4B strands you would have to stretch the hair to open up the coil when the hairs are close together and then let them go ping so they cup each other as they contract back to rest. And sometimes that will happen on its own as MissAlyssa attests, and I can believe her observation because she's been brave enough to do a WNG on all her hair and just let it do its thang. :notworthy

And again it is the size of the coil that makes this difficult. All other hair types have hair at different stages of growth but they still clump. Coil size makes it easy. It's not even that the coils are not the same size. My hair appears to have the same size coils all through. It's size.

To test this theory take pen springs and put them beside each other and then press them into each other. It'll take some effort to get them to blend. Take a coil the size of a slinky that isn't closed as a slinky but is shaped like a spring and put then next to each other or even drop one on the other. Chances are it won't bounce off as many times as pen springs would. It will fall into the other to form a united coil.

 

[anon123]

Now I'm of the school of that that says 4a 4a/b and 4b are separated by coil size. 4b is smaller than a pen spring. If a single strand alone forms a curl that is larger than a pen spring... you may not be a 4b

I JUST took this pic for you guys because I was detangling my hair as reading this thread. It's the best I can do without borrowing Nonie's camera lol. The average size of my coils are the one closest to the pen spring. But as you can see I do have even smaller coils.

I hope this helps somebody.
Lys

I think I agree with that. Pen spring to pencil = 4a. Smaller than pen spring = 4b. Since 4b is the end of the Andre scale, I guess your curl can get smaller into infinity and still be 4b.

Your coils are so tiny. They are about the tiniest I've seen. Tinier than mine or Nonie's, generally. Coils this size or a definite minority on my head, but you seem to have a lot of them. I think this what makes your hair so fragile. You can't not manipulate it because otherwise it will lock up. But when you manipulate it, it breaks. Your little broken hairs remind me of my detangling session yesterday.

Nonie, I've done wash and gos over my whole head, too. Haven't you seen? http://public.fotki.com/mwedzi/texture/
http://public.fotki.com/mwedzi/2009-january-june/may09washandgo.html
I don't know if Alyssa will agree, but it's not a good move for me. My hair gets so tangled.

 

[tkj25]

Well, I dare someone to post a close up picture of this so called "zig-zag" sharp angle hair. I question whether this texture actually exists. I have never seen anyone post an example of this type- and I don't believe hair grows out of the head at sharp angles.

Andre needs to reexamine this 4b category and throw the very tightly coiled people in there where they belong. From my researched of the whole issue- hair gets its shape from the hair follicle. Under a scientific view, I cannot locate anywhere a report of a follicle that produces hair that throws out "z's".

**Someone please post a close up picture of their "z" shaped hair (like Mwedzi's siggy picture; or Nonies closeups). Then we can settle this for once and for all.

Andre: "There are two subtypes of Type 4 hair: Type 4A, tightly coiled hair that, when stretched, has an "S" pattern, much like curly hair; and Type 4B, which has a "Z" pattern, less of a defined curl pattern (instead of curling or coiling, the hair bends in sharp angles like the letter "Z")."

lol, i can't take the madness anymore i don't think 4b hair exists. (for me 4 a & b are the same. what a lot are calling 4a, is really 3-type hair ... but i digress) i've given it a chance after all these years, lol, to see someone with this z-shaped pattern ... and after over 10 years of looking, i've yet to see it. all 4-type hair has some type of coil. therefore if 4b hair = z-shaped, sharp-angled hair, & no one has z-shaped, sharp-angled hair, then by definition 4b hair dne (does not exist) .... with that said, to me the "z-shape" is just describing a small coil from its side view -- stretched-out & tiny. all curly hair -- when stretched or elongated -- forms s's, z's, 5's, o's and the like -- it's the nature of curly hair. but the diameter of the curl determines whether you see these shapes easliy "type 3", or not "type 4". if you look at an individual strand of "4b" hair it is still usually a tiny coil, or shrinks up into an "o".

i bought andre's book when it came out. read it, & from his descriptions determined that i had type 4a hair. because even though my hair is nappy, undefined, afro-texture, i could see it was composed of a bunch of tiny curls/coils. [for clarity's sake, i gradually switched to 4 a/b because -- especially on hairboards -- i saw more & more people with my hair type describing it as 4b.]

i took andre's word -- & accepted that because he was a hair professional -- that he'd had contact with this so called "4b" hair -- i've yet to see it.

every c-napp, 4b picture someone's posted, i see a density of curls: small, tiny, frizzy, nappy, condensed, usually dry, shrunken curls -- but curls none the less.

just because your hair doesn't form loopy ringlets, doesn't mean you don't have a curl pattern. an afro is made up of tiny, separated curls. you have to get up close to see the curls, but they are still there all packed together. the reason shingling or other defining types of manipulation work is because nappy hair has coils. that is the nature of our hair -- you can't bring out what ain't there ... and your hair may not form perfect, coily, loopy ringlets but the curl pattern that is there will be more pronounced -- still a little frizzy & nappy, but still more defined.

i think we're also experiencing a paradigm shift -- because long, loose, afro-textured hair isn't the norm ... it's usually relaxed. so there's all this confusion with what our texture is and looks like longer, and in it's natural state. before, the main examples of long, nappy, tightly-afro textured hair were locs. now, there are more & more examples of longer, loose nappy, natural hair -- and it is new, and exciting.

what i'm discovering as my hair grows longer is that with maintaining increased strand moisture levels & retaining length -- my afro hair will flop & fall like other curly heads of hair. that doesn't mean the texture or nature of my hair has changed -- it's still nappy -- but its looks/characteristics will change as it gets longer, heavier, & is kept more hydrated -- as my afro hair has grown longer, and as i've kept the strands more hydrated, the coil/curl pattern has elongated.

i'm almost through with andre's whole system i see it's general form -- types 1-4 (even if somewhat hierarchical) -- being useful with products, but beyond that .. trying to break it down more than that is too much. (4a-z) i think we can agree that within each type (especially 3-4) there's a spectrum.

regardless, you can learn & find products that will work for your hair from any hair type, if you're open to it. i know i have ... water, henna & olive oil come to mind ... still no matter where you get it from, you still have to try it on your hair to see if it works.

 

[music-bnatural-smile]

I'm something who knows what... sometimes my edges are very 4b
sometimes my back is very 3c...
who really knows

 

[Nonie]

Nonie, I've done wash and gos over my whole head, too. Haven't you seen? http://public.fotki.com/mwedzi/texture/
http://public.fotki.com/mwedzi/2009-january-june/may09washandgo.html
I don't know if Alyssa will agree, but it's not a good move for me. My hair gets so tangled.

My bad. I have so many images of your pretty dos in my head and because length is my all-time dream they are at the forefront so I completely forgot you had done a WNG on your whole head, you brave soul. I don't doubt your hair gets tangled; that's why I won't do it. I think you're the best guinea pig in the world and I adore you for it. Is there anything you haven't done? And yet your hair is so long and strong and healthy with all the "experiments" you do while here I am baby my hair and.... I better stop that line of thought coz I'm starting to hate you.

Tkj25, thank you for breaking it down. Now I finally get what Neith meant when she said 4B doesn't exist. She meant hair that grows in Z's.

 

[Nonie]

You are right, you probably find the most(4b) in South Africa and the most(2b) populous people are from China and India.

I thought most Asians had straight type 1 hair, no?

Anyway here's a breakdown of last year's world population distribution. Don't know if it really tells us anything though coz it's not like there was roll call and everyone went back to where they hail from to be counted.

There are about 6.7 billion people in the world (numbers below in millions):

AFRICA (967)
- Northern Africa (197)
- Western Africa (291)
- Easten Africa (301)
- Central Africa (122)
- Southern Africa (55)

USA and CANADA (577)

MEXICO and CENTRAL AMERICA (150)

CARIBBEAN (41)

SOUTH AMERICA (387)

ASIA (4,052)

EUROPE (736)

OCEANIA (35)

 

[AfroKink]

OK, now I see where we were losing each other. You were not saying that your hair doesn't form coils naturally but that it doesn't clump naturally. I agree with that. And yes, to form clumping on many 4B strands you would have to stretch the hair to open up the coil when the hairs are close together and then let them go ping so they cup each other as they contract back to rest. And sometimes that will happen on its own as MissAlyssa attests, and I can believe her observation because she's been brave enough to do a WNG on all her hair and just let it do its thang. :notworthy

That was my last wash-n-go. I wouldnt dare do that now. lol.

I think I agree with that. Pen spring to pencil = 4a. Smaller than pen spring = 4b. Since 4b is the end of the Andre scale, I guess your curl can get smaller into infinity and still be 4b.

Your coils are so tiny. They are about the tiniest I've seen. Tinier than mine or Nonie's, generally. Coils this size or a definite minority on my head, but you seem to have a lot of them. I think this what makes your hair so fragile. You can't not manipulate it because otherwise it will lock up. But when you manipulate it, it breaks. Your little broken hairs remind me of my detangling session yesterday.

Nonie, I've done wash and gos over my whole head, too. Haven't you seen? http://public.fotki.com/mwedzi/texture/
http://public.fotki.com/mwedzi/2009-january-june/may09washandgo.html
I don't know if Alyssa will agree, but it's not a good move for me. My hair gets so tangled.

Yah. I'm still tyring to learn my hair. Yesterday I co-washed my twists and just let them air dry. I didn't touch them again until today. I had a tough detangle today. Normally I bantu my wet twists and that keeps my hair from tangling up too much. I need to go back to doing that. But my hair normally breaks off when I try to detangle it. It breaks even when I finger detangle. All I can do it try to minimize the amount of breakage.

 

[almond eyes]

This is why the whole hair typing debate is vexing. I have 4b for my edges and some parts of my front hair, that part does not curl up or wave except in two side pieces in my front section which do have those loose curls next to these dime size coils. Now the majority of my hair is 4a which has larger pin sized coils. And the back of my hair has a loose curl which is 3c and I have pieces of the 3c within my 4a hair pattern which I can tell is different because those curls are bigger and looser and respond immediately to my gel while the front section of my hair that is 4b just stays like someone said "cotton candy or a springy sponge".

Best,
Almond Eyes

 

[laurend]

I thought most Asians had straight type 1 hair, no?

Anyway here's a breakdown of last year's world population distribution. Don't know if it really tells us anything though coz it's not like there was roll call and everyone went back to where they hail from to be counted.

There are about 6.7 billion people in the world (numbers below in millions):

AFRICA (967)
- Northern Africa (197)
- Western Africa (291)
- Easten Africa (301)
- Central Africa (122)
- Southern Africa (55)

USA and CANADA (577)

MEXICO and CENTRAL AMERICA (150)

CARIBBEAN (41)

SOUTH AMERICA (387)

ASIA (4,052)

EUROPE (736)

OCEANIA (35)

Wait a minute, I thought China and India have a least 1 billion people each in their countries. The Chinese have the most people on earth and India is a close 2nd.

You are right a 1b hair with Asian people, I really don't know or care about hair typing, I just know they have straight hair.

 

[laurend]

See now, I guess Asia 4,052 means 4 billion.

 

[andromeda]

I don't think 4b hair is uncommon. I define 4b hair as Nonie, Mwedzi and MSA have articulated it, not strictly according Andre's description. In a similar thread that was active within the last 2 weeks or so, Xerxes (I think) had a very insightful post on why its perceived that 4bs are so uncommon.

Anyways, I say my hair is "4b/z?" bc

• I don't recollect ever having coils/curls of any kind when I was younger, hence the "z"
• thusfar, the coils growing out of my head are probably smaller then pen springs and very tightly coiled, hence "b"
• I'm transitioning, so I'm hesitant to definitely type my hair since I have this bonelaxed 1a hair hanging on for dear life to my coils, hence "?"

My "educated guess" is based on the practical use of the term 4b that I've seen across the internet. I would hope that no one is giving me the side eye, thinking that my "4b/z?" guess is a way of "fishing for compliments" or seeking validation to "move on up the hair ladder and finally get my piece of the pie". Actually, "hope" would be a waste of energy. I mean, really? Then again, I haven't been on hair boards long enough to know if such an odd rationale is commonplace (I'm sure it happens, but I don't think it's the defacto explanation for questionable 4b typing).

 

[Bulletproof]

Photo won't upload, no point in post without photo

 

[Daughter]

I've got a bit confused reading this thread, but now realise there's more variation in the type 4 family than I thought. I think I'm 4a/b?

 

[Hairsofab]

I haven't read this whole thread but I do see a lot of people claim 4b on here who are not 4b by any stretch. To me if you can put on some gel and pull your hair back and see waves, you are not 4b in my 4bz/C-napp world. lol.

 

[laurend]

I'm confused also. I think what I got from this thread, is that there are variations of 4b from kinky to super kinky.

 

[Hairsofab]

I offer my head up for public scrutinization. I consider my hair to be type 4b. My strands are definitely coiled. On rare occasions a bunch of strands clump together to form a defined coil. My hair actually loves to clump together, but not in a uniform way. No product or technique I've used in my 6 years of naturalness has ever made defined curls/coils on more than 0.25% of my head. If you hair can acheive coil/curl definition through product usage... you might not be a 4b.

This is a wash-n-fro from a while back. I think it was day 2 or 3 of my wash-n-fro. Note the clumps. Please do not confuse them with curls or coils. Curls/coils begin right from the root and are composed of the hair strands closest to each other. This clumps on my head are the last 1-2 inchs of hair at the ends of the strands and are composed of hair form any part of my head that can reach the clump. You'd actually find that the hairs from two adjacent clump families actually cross closer to the root and you can't actualy seperate out a clump from root to tip.

My hair forms ripples, not waves. I don't have 'deep waves' that people oooh and ahhh over. My ripples are just the stretched out coil. The word "slick" is not in my hair vocabulary. If you have waves that reflect light and blind people in the eye... you might not be a 4b

I don't have many puff pictures because I dont really do puffs. Here are some cornorow shots. If you squint your eyes and tilt your head slightly to the left you can see micro ripples.

Lys

This is definitely the texture of my hair. If I think about it I will post some pictures in this thread when I get home.

 

[Celestial]

Everyone needs to recognize the 4b is a widely ranging category. I personally believe that 4b can have a coil, it's just super small (in diameter) and you can't make out it's definition unless you're up super close (like in Nonie's pics). Basically, if I can look at a fro and see coils (because they're clearly big enough for me to see without the zoom/macro function on the camera) then you're 4a (like my hair). If I can look at it and can't tell one coil from another, then you're 4b (like Nonie or Desi or Mwedzi).

My sister is a 4b whose hair is literally a cottony mass. No coils, no zig zags, but somehow it's just fluff. I don't even know how to describe it. My ex-so is 4b but his hair literally grows out of his head straight, no zig zags, no coils, just straight. It looks like kinky straight weave hair. Then there's people like Nonie and Desi who when you look up close they have coils, but if you were standing right next to them you wouldn't be able to see any definition of those coils if their hair dried unmanipulated with no product.

Clearly, there is a lot of variation, opinions, and misinformation. I think that's because people want to cling to the idea that 4b is this very specific thing (and is connected to a very specific hair struggle) when it really isn't.

I read some of these posts, and I believe the above in bold. My hair is something of that sort. I don't have a curl pattern and my hair shrinks greatly when washed but easily straighten out when combed. For an afro, it would be better for me to first curl it with rod/rollers because trying to pick a natural afro just give me a straight-kinky look. My hair is nappy when wet or washed but all I have to do is comb it out and twist it and people wouldn't define it as nappy . If 4b is no curl pattern then my hair is 4b.