If love was truly color blind....

[intergalacticartist]

I think that whether or not it matters depends on one's personal values. I think it's deeper than aesthetic preference. Is the notion of a black "community" important to a woman (or man)? If so, then that person will inherently want to preserve and build that community. Asian immigrants who pressure their kids to marry their "own" are attempting to preserve their particular values, religion, tradition. I think that black people take more heat about expressing such preferences because the thought is that we're supposed to be simply "American" and the black narrative/cultural experience isn't necessarily given the same credibility as that of say, an Indian family in the US.

The people that I know who have dated/married interracially have been those who may be perfectly conscious of their personal ethnicity, but aren't as concerned about the furtherance of that ethnic community or of having to be identified as a part of it politically or socially. That's just what I've observed from people I know and talk to. It's more the post-racial society type of mindset.

So I think whether it matters just depends on the person. Is having black children who will identify themselves as such something important to a person or not? Does it matter to you if in a couple of generations your descendants won't know what chitlins are? I mean, that's a silly question, but basically it's about a sense of belonging and cultural preservation.

I think it's because your race is suppose to be some sort of indication of who you are or who you're supposed to be. It's supposed to identify what type of "box" you're so to be in. Many of the problems I hear mixed kids talk about is that they feel as if they don't fit in because they're too much or "this" for one group but not enough of "that" for another.
I'm not saying your supposed to be ashamed of your heritage but why is it directly tied to a predetermined personality?

Its almost as if black women are expected to remain devoted to black men. But why? Because their black. That's not enough for me. I want a man I'm attracted to, career right, money right, fun, loves me, loves Jesus (these are the basics).

I am reading alot of BW that have gone out with WM and BM are very opposed to it verbally and WW just give dirty looks. I sense they feel you're selling out over race, but what if (beyond race), this person and I simply have chemistry and a genuine interest in each other.

I feel like is love was more color blind, maybe people would be more open and attracted across gender lines and some people would feel more free to not limit themselves.

For instance, if I am in a room with a bunch of single men that would quite possible be interested in dating inter-racially: 100 in total; 20 black, 40 white, 25 Asian, 15 Hispanic. If I am "committed to dating" only my race, I just went from 100% to 20% when there's possibly 60% eligible men. Would I really only entertain 20% because of the first thing I see, skin color.

What about all the other things that are far more important and that make a marriage last? Common goals, interest, values, commitment, kindness, etc...I guess I am not so much interested in getting married then I am having a marriage that will last and I accept I may find that guy in a culture/racial group that's not like my own.

It's all ego. The one think that the black men had to count on always being there for them is the black women. Not only did they lose the black woman, they lost her to the one thing that has taken everything else from them: the white (or non-black) man.
Now that that is not guaranteed what do they have left? White women are mad because they are put on a pedestal and are supposed to be coveted by all man (especially the white man).
It's all ego and game

 

[TrueToHair]

.....................................

 

[aribell]

I think it's because your race is suppose to be some sort of indication of who you are or who you're supposed to be. It's supposed to identify what type of "box" you're so to be in. Many of the problems I hear mixed kids talk about is that they feel as if they don't fit in because they're too much or "this" for one group but not enough of "that" for another.
I'm not saying your supposed to be ashamed of your heritage but why is it directly tied to a predetermined personality?

I don't know if it's about personality so much as what "team" you're ultimately on. I remember in grade school having a mixed friend, and the black girls would be like, "She needs to decide what she wants to be--black or white." (very obnoxious, I know) It wasn't about the way she acted, it was that at a majority white school, the black kids wanted to know whether she was "one of us." (again, unfair, especially for a kid)

I'm not sure why, but a good number of the people closes to me have been biracial and/or in interracial marriages. I will admit that I took issue with my best friend who I knew for 20+ years because I essentially felt like she was "passing" and refused to really embrace her full ethnicity. I know that there will be a lot of people who are like, "Why should it matter? Why does it have to be one or the other?" But here is where it matters--white people (and lots of others) still see race. This girl and I were thick as thieves, but in the same friend circles people who would act funny toward me or were clearly uncomfortable around black people in general didn't do the same with her because they couldn't really figure out what her ethnicity was. So that's where racial solidarity comes into play. In many places and at many times, we are not post-racial, and people link arms with one another to face the world. I didn't want her to change her personality or interests--we had so much in common--but I wanted her to recognize that socially and politically, race is real and you can't just pretend that it's of no significance.

We were part of a church that was composed of a lot of well-to-do white families. And she would talk about how people would be surprised and kind of change toward her when she conveyed or they realized that she's black. She's now working on racial reconciliation initiatives in that denomination and speaks about her experience being biracial, and in particular, black. I think that was a very healthy development for her.

 

[Kurlee]

no, because society is not colour blind and there are implications, whether we like it or not, to being a "race".

 

[TrueToHair]

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[ScorpioBeauty09]

I think whether love is truly colorblind is up to the individual person. There are so many variables in the human experience it's impossible to pinpoint one or even a small number of them. All I can say is my childhood/early adult experiences lead me to not to notice racial/color differences as to restrict who I see as a potential spouse/father to my children. Doing so only limits the pool of men I have access to and at the end of the day I want a successful and happy marriage based on what I share in common with a man internally, education, belief in family, belief in God, career ambition, love of travel etc., not skin color.

A poster brought up having black children and them knowing what chitlins are (ummm, both my parents are black and I have no idea what chitlins are lol ). No matter what, my children will be black just by having me as their mother. That doesn't change because they have a multiracial heritage.

I suppose a lot of this comes down to personal preference. I'm turned on at the idea of finding similarities amongst external differences. I like the idea of 2 people from different backgrounds coming together. Restricting myself by racial lines makes things boring JMO.

 

[BeautifulFlower]

So I take it you're not attracted to Asian or Hispanic men?

That's not true. but I'm more attracted to black and white...But there's alot of Latino men that "look" black. I just have a particular look I like...tall, dark short hair, athletic/solid build, masculine, pretty smile full lips That runs across race lines


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[TrueToHair]

......................................................

 

[BeautifulFlower]

I think it's because your race is suppose to be some sort of indication of who you are or who you're supposed to be. It's supposed to identify what type of "box" you're so to be in. Many of the problems I hear mixed kids talk about is that they feel as if they don't fit in because they're too much or "this" for one group but not enough of "that" for another.
I'm not saying your supposed to be ashamed of your heritage but why is it directly tied to a predetermined personality?




It's all ego. The one think that the black men had to count on always being there for them is the black women. Not only did they lose the black woman, they lost her to the one thing that has taken everything else from them: the white (or non-black) man.
Now that that is not guaranteed what do they have left? White women are mad because they are put on a pedestal and are supposed to be coveted by all man (especially the white man).
It's all ego and game

Didnt think of that. All black men I know have a thing against "the man". So I guess them seeing me with one would be like, "Dang, we can't have nothing for ourselves."


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[BeautifulFlower]

Hey hun I wasn't being snarky. Just based on the numbers you gave ("100 in total; 20 black, 40 white, 25 Asian, 15 Hispanic. If I am "committed to dating" only my race, I just went from 100% to 20% when there's possibly 60% eligible men"), you're saying that the only eligible men for you would be black and white. Without thinking about it, that's excluding Asian men along racial lines. I don't think love is ever truly "blind."

Lol oh no. I didnt even pay attention to the numbers. That 60 included all. I guess 20 + 40 would drive you to think the first two groups


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[BeautifulFlower]

I suppose a lot of this comes down to personal preference. I'm turned on at the idea of finding similarities amongst external differences. I like the idea of 2 people from different backgrounds coming together. Restricting myself by racial lines makes things boring JMO.

I really like this because this is one of the reasons I enjoy engaging men of the opposite sex. I love to see that we're really not that much different but I also love some of the differences and enjoy learning things I would have never experienced if I remained "true". I plan to hang out with a co-worker (white and very cute) this weekend. What attracted me to him is he isn't offended by race comments and this guy has so much flavor, he totally caught me by surprise because he looks straight up all American. So it's interesting to see that we're different but we can relate too.


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[TrueToHair]

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[mischka]

Certain implications I have found don't matter as much as I thought they would. Love is not colorblind. If I'm dating a non-black man, neither of us are pretending that we don't see differences because of race. For example a dude asked me the other day where I think the best soul food restaurants in town were. I was like, why do you assume I eat soul food? (I have never sought out a "soul food" restaurant on my own because I just don't really fux with soul food like that.) Something happened on tv concerning the stock market and I said I didn't understand it and asked him to explain. He said, because I'm white you think I understand the stock market?

But ultimately, those implications don't have to overshadow the relationship if you don't want to. I was worried before dating IR that there would be some kind of huge divide that wouldn't allow us to relate to each other the way we should. But at the end of the day, dating non-black men is not radically different from dating black men. The biggest difference is background *shrug* they are still men and a lot of the old rules apply. Race differences come up but I have found that you are both cognizant of them and don't want them to overshadow the relationship so if there's a problem, you work it out. (There have been men that I just couldn't date because clearly they werent ready/equipped to deal with these kinds of race relations.)

As far as strengthening/releasing the cultural identity tied up in who you marry, I think that's a valid argument too. I used to feel a lot of pressure to preserve the black community with an example-setting marriage. Now, I don't anymore. I'm not self hating and I don't hate black people but it is my honest opinion that the black community in its current incarnation is not worth saving. There are good things in the culture that we should carry with us but overall, I no longer wish to feel obligated to devote my life to saving a culture that is rotten from the inside. If I marry a black man, that's cool too, but I will no longer be doing it in deference to anyone's racial identity. I don't feel it's my job anymore to preserve this culture, especially since it seems as if I'd have to put up with much more than is reasonable in terms of finding a mate in order to do so.

 

[BeautifulFlower]

And maybe they feel they have reason too. Maybe they are looking at past history, or arrogance, or anything else and it bothers them.

Last year their was a mini gate at yahoo groups that annoyed the hell out of me:

How do black and Asian men feel about their women preferring us?
Most beautiful black and Asian women prefer and date white men, only ugly fat white women date black and Asian guys, knowing no white guys would want them or give them time of day. How do black and Asian men feel about this? The fact that their beautiful women are now leaving and preferring us over them and they are only getting our trash? I gotta say, life is good when you're a white man.


^ This wasn't a joke. Like that's actually a real person thinking he was asking a sincere question before it got locked. Now y'all know good and well if a white girl asked that we would be mad.

Wow...I would have...
:gotroasted:

 

[Okay]

And maybe they feel they have reason too. Maybe they are looking at past history, or arrogance, or anything else and it bothers them.

Last year their was a mini gate at yahoo groups that annoyed the hell out of me:

How do black and Asian men feel about their women preferring us?
Most beautiful black and Asian women prefer and date white men, only ugly fat white women date black and Asian guys, knowing no white guys would want them or give them time of day. How do black and Asian men feel about this? The fact that their beautiful women are now leaving and preferring us over them and they are only getting our trash? I gotta say, life is good when you're a white man.


^ This wasn't a joke. Like that's actually a real person thinking he was asking a sincere question before it got locked. Now y'all know good and well if a white girl asked that we would be mad.

sorry but

 

[BeautifulFlower]

Certain implications I have found don't matter as much as I thought they would. Love is not colorblind. If I'm dating a non-black man, neither of us are pretending that we don't see differences because of race. For example a dude asked me the other day where I think the best soul food restaurants in town were. I was like, why do you assume I eat soul food? (I have never sought out a "soul food" restaurant on my own because I just don't really fux with soul food like that.) Something happened on tv concerning the stock market and I said I didn't understand it and asked him to explain. He said, because I'm white you think I understand the stock market?

Its funny because even if people get mad about stereotypes...they exist. I used to be offended by them but its hard to now. Its not that people are ignorant, they just have different perceptions and experiences than you and the see the world through that paradigm. I went on a trip to Israel, only "all black" person there, and I became the black mascot. All black questions came to me. They weren't being offensive, they honestly had questions, no black friends, and they saw an opportunity for answers. You live and learn no matter the age.

But ultimately, those implications don't have to overshadow the relationship if you don't want to. I was worried before dating IR that there would be some kind of huge divide that wouldn't allow us to relate to each other the way we should. But at the end of the day, dating non-black men is not radically different from dating black men. The biggest difference is background *shrug* they are still men and a lot of the old rules apply. Race differences come up but I have found that you are both cognizant of them and don't want them to overshadow the relationship so if there's a problem, you work it out. (There have been men that I just couldn't date because clearly they werent ready/equipped to deal with these kinds of race relations.)

I have been very curious of this. I haven't been out on a date with a non-black man in 10 years. I don't remember a lot from that night but I know he wasn't as assertive/aggressive as I like. I wonder if thats common.

As far as strengthening/releasing the cultural identity tied up in who you marry, I think that's a valid argument too. I used to feel a lot of pressure to preserve the black community with an example-setting marriage. Now, I don't anymore. I'm not self hating and I don't hate black people but it is my honest opinion that the black community in its current incarnation is not worth saving. There are good things in the culture that we should carry with us but overall, I no longer wish to feel obligated to devote my life to saving a culture that is rotten from the inside. If I marry a black man, that's cool too, but I will no longer be doing it in deference to anyone's racial identity. I don't feel it's my job anymore to preserve this culture, especially since it seems as if I'd have to put up with much more than is reasonable in terms of finding a mate in order to do so.

Your last statement rings very true for me. Can I marry a black man? Yes. Would I love to? Yes. Would we have beautiful black babies? Yes. But if a had a choice been an commitment phobic black man and commitment-marriage minded white man that wanted me, what you think Imma choose?

But then again its not about the color. Its about the person I get regardless of race and, like you said, I no longer feel obligated to preserve the race.

At the end of the day, if I marry and have babies with a white man and my child look black, my child will always be a black man/women no matter what....

Halle, Lauren London, Barack Obama, the list goes on....all mix'd, all labeled black.

 

[chocolat79]

Hmmm, I'll throw my two cents in, but love doesn't have to be colorblind in the sense of not acknowledging it. It can be colorblind in the sense of one not letting it solely define a person and put them in a box based on color.

I've dated interracially and as a matter of fact, went on a date tonight with a white guy. He asked me if there were any differences with my experiences between non-black and black men and I had to think about it for a minute. IME, there really wasn't--overall. I told him that the dynamic was different, but that essentially, men are men. I've had great relationships with black men and great (at the beginning) relationships with non-black men. Actually, I've had better relationships with black men, however, it was because of the type of guys they were, not because they were black.

My point is when dating interracially, men are men. The dynamic may be different, but when you start to look at it objectively and get to know them as a human being, they are just men, with a different outside coating, LOL. If we're talking culturally, that's slightly more involved, but still, at the heart of it, a man is a man, but his cultural background will have (perhaps) shaped him differently than what you may be used to.

As far as black women feeling like we're "committed" to black men, well, that's different for every woman (who feels that way). There are so many factors affecting that and mostly it's ignorance (in the dictionary sense of the word). For instance, there's always threads (not necessarily on LHCF) about how BW didn't think ___men liked them. It's just a matter of ignorance at times and preference others and it's too broad of a question to answer to relate it to all black women in general.

It's late and I hope some of this post makes sense...if not, I'll try to clarify...later.

 

[BERlin]

At this early stage in my life, understanding is first on my list of traits that a SO must have. So, in that respect, dating my race exclusively really benefits me because we are more likely to have gone through the same social situations: incursions with racism, privilege, bizarre professional or personal stories concerning the black experience. I don't want to have to go home, and have to explain myself, ya know? Because race is such a big deal in my life (for personal reasons), there is often a wall of miscommunication between myself and my non-brown friends. Some have problems understanding why a cashier not handing me my money after he just handed two non-brown people their change would bother me; and they usually don't even notice. In fact, I feel uncomfortable bringing it up with them because I definitely don't want to look like a victim, but sometimes I do feel like a victim; to me companionship has a lot to do with who can identify with complicated situations like those- someone who gets me, and fellow African-Americans best fit the bill.

 

[LoveisYou]

Its funny because even if people get mad about stereotypes...they exist. I used to be offended by them but its hard to now. Its not that people are ignorant, they just have different perceptions and experiences than you and the see the world through that paradigm. I went on a trip to Israel, only "all black" person there, and I became the black mascot. All black questions came to me. They weren't being offensive, they honestly had questions, no black friends, and they saw an opportunity for answers. You live and learn no matter the age.



I have been very curious of this. I haven't been out on a date with a non-black man in 10 years. I don't remember a lot from that night but I know he wasn't as assertive/aggressive as I like. I wonder if thats common.



Your last statement rings very true for me. Can I marry a black man? Yes. Would I love to? Yes. Would we have beautiful black babies? Yes. But if a had a choice been an commitment phobic black man and commitment-marriage minded white man that wanted me, what you think Imma choose?

But then again its not about the color. Its about the person I get regardless of race and, like you said, I no longer feel obligated to preserve the race.

At the end of the day, if I marry and have babies with a white man and my child look black, my child will always be a black man/women no matter what....

Halle, Lauren London, Barack Obama, the list goes on....all mix'd, all labeled black.

This is definitely changing.

 

[mischka]

And maybe they feel they have reason to feel this way. Maybe they are looking at past history, or arrogance, or anything else and it bothers them.

Last year there was a mini gate at yahoo groups that annoyed the hell out of me:

How do black and Asian men feel about their women preferring us?
Most beautiful black and Asian women prefer and date white men, only ugly fat white women date black and Asian guys, knowing no white guys would want them or give them time of day. How do black and Asian men feel about this? The fact that their beautiful women are now leaving and preferring us over them and they are only getting our trash? I gotta say, life is good when you're a white man.


^ This wasn't a joke. Like that's actually a real person thinking he was asking a sincere question before it got locked. Now y'all know good and well if a white girl asked that we would be mad.

I think this is funny (in a sideeying kind of way) but it's not really true for bw. I don't think as a whole bw prefer white men to black men, and damn sure not as much/as frequently as asian women do. that sounds like something written by a black man or woman, tbh.

 

[BeautifulFlower]

I think this is funny (in a sideeying kind of way) but it's not really true for bw. I don't think as a whole bw prefer white men to black men, and damn sure not as much/as frequently as asian women do. that sounds like something written by a black man or woman, tbh.

Yeah....that was off. Black women (majority) prefer black men. But some of us, find attraction to other races. I wouldn't say we're abandoning them the race...we just don't feel a need to stay devoted to looking for a black man especially when all the media talks about is how the numbers are not in my favor. Well, that just tells me I need to cast a wider net.

 

[BeautifulFlower]

Thank you for your honesty and that is a valid reason to primarily seek within your own race.

At this early stage in my life, understanding is first on my list of traits that a SO must have. So, in that respect, dating my race exclusively really benefits me because we are more likely to have gone through the same social situations: incursions with racism, privilege, bizarre professional or personal stories concerning the black experience. I don't want to have to go home, and have to explain myself, ya know? Because race is such a big deal in my life (for personal reasons), there is often a wall of miscommunication between myself and my non-brown friends. Some have problems understanding why a cashier not handing me my money after he just handed two non-brown people their change would bother me; and they usually don't even notice. In fact, I feel uncomfortable bringing it up with them because I definitely don't want to look like a victim, but sometimes I do feel like a victim; to me companionship has a lot to do with who can identify with complicated situations like those- someone who gets me, and fellow African-Americans best fit the bill.

 

[TrueToHair]

........................................

 

[TrueToHair]

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[Syrah]

Really? What examples have you noticed? (I'm really curious). I didn't even notice Lauren London was "mixed" until someone pointed it out. Even Halle Berry said she will raise her daughter Nahla as a black woman.

I'm not being daft... in 2011, what exactly does that mean?

 

[Syrah]

Yeah....that was off. Black women (majority) prefer black men. But some of us, find attraction to other races. I wouldn't say we're abandoning them the race...we just don't feel a need to stay devoted to looking for a black man especially when all the media talks about is how the numbers are not in my favor. Well, that just tells me I need to cast a wider net.

I guess where I have an issue is that for black women, it seems as though "casting a wider net" is in response to the pool of black men. I'm not discounting the issues that exist amongst some black men and women. But I only see this reaction amongst black people. Maybe its me (and correct me if I'm wrong) - I've heard of Asian, White, Latin women wanting to date other men. But I've never heard another race of women who speak so much about dating outside as an alternative to inside, due to what exists within their community. I feel like others due it for experiences, some of us do it with the mindset of "this is the only way". "If I want to marry a good man who ___, ____ and _____, I'm have to consider non black men".

Somewhere about this exclusive preference rubs me the wrong way. I don't see how people can say in the same breath "I love who I am but refuse to date someone like me".

Note: I have dated non-Black men and would do it again so the ^ isn't about the choice to be with someone else, but about the exclusivity pursuit of that something else...

 

[Syrah]

And maybe they feel they have reason to feel this way. Maybe they are looking at past history, or arrogance, or anything else and it bothers them.

Last year there was a mini gate at yahoo groups that annoyed the hell out of me:

How do black and Asian men feel about their women preferring us?
Most beautiful black and Asian women prefer and date white men, only ugly fat white women date black and Asian guys, knowing no white guys would want them or give them time of day. How do black and Asian men feel about this? The fact that their beautiful women are now leaving and preferring us over them and they are only getting our trash? I gotta say, life is good when you're a white man.


^ This wasn't a joke. Like that's actually a real person thinking he was asking a sincere question before it got locked. Now y'all know good and well if a white girl asked that we would be mad.

Man...as black folks we need to fix our PR and press stat.

 

[BeautifulFlower]

I'm not being daft... in 2011, what exactly does that mean?

I am not sure either but im sure its along the lines of letting her know she's mixed but that society will identify her as a black women. Also maybe raising her to understand black culture and black issues.

I guess where I have an issue is that for black women, it seems as though "casting a wider net" is in response to the pool of black men. I'm not discounting the issues that exist amongst some black men and women. But I only see this reaction amongst black people. Maybe its me (and correct me if I'm wrong) - I've heard of Asian, White, Latin women wanting to date other men. But I've never heard another race of women who speak so much about dating outside as an alternative to inside, due to what exists within their community. I feel like others due it for experiences, some of us do it with the mindset of "this is the only way". "If I want to marry a good man who ___, ____ and _____, I'm have to consider non black men".

Somewhere about this exclusive preference rubs me the wrong way. I don't see how people can say in the same breath "I love who I am but refuse to date someone like me".

Note: I have dated non-Black men and would do it again so the ^ isn't about the choice to be with someone else, but about the exclusivity pursuit of that something else...

I do it more for the experience and the possibility of finding love in interesting places. Not because black men are scarce but with the media emphasizing so much that the black man is scarce (though I have not experienced this), it does help. It makes me think, "Well, I dont know about them 54% of black women not getting married to black man but I gonna be in the 46% of women that do....black man or not".

At the end of the day, race doesnt matter to me very much as long as he's willing to listen and try to understand (even if he doesnt).

 

[TrueToHair]

...........................

 

[Etherealsmile]

At this early stage in my life, understanding is first on my list of traits that a SO must have. So, in that respect, dating my race exclusively really benefits me because we are more likely to have gone through the same social situations: incursions with racism, privilege, bizarre professional or personal stories concerning the black experience. I don't want to have to go home, and have to explain myself, ya know? Because race is such a big deal in my life (for personal reasons), there is often a wall of miscommunication between myself and my non-brown friends. Some have problems understanding why a cashier not handing me my money after he just handed two non-brown people their change would bother me; and they usually don't even notice. In fact, I feel uncomfortable bringing it up with them because I definitely don't want to look like a victim, but sometimes I do feel like a victim; to me companionship has a lot to do with who can identify with complicated situations like those- someone who gets me, and fellow African-Americans best fit the bill.

While i understand where you're coming from, i truly wonder how many black couples have drawn out conversations on a regular basis regarding race relations and racial issues etc.erplexed

I may be an anomaly but in my previous relationships with black men, we rarely had any conversations centered around race or any conversations regarding the black experience etc.

I'm curious to know what others have experienced in their relationships.