I can't imagine.....

[Nice & Wavy]

I saw the thread title and passed right by it, because I knew it's nothing for me to be inquisitive about, so I didn't have a need to read anything in it.

However, I'm interested in why any of you would venture over to a thread like that? The bible tells us to “Guard your heart with all diligence for out of it flow the issues of life.” (Prov 4:23) Our eye gates are especially important to guard, because it can directly affect us in our thought patterns, if we are wavering...and there are many that do.

Those things aren't important to understand for us as believers. Yes, its helpful to read and understand about these things, but find out about it in another avenue, not on a forum where there will be hostility. It will only take the power of God to turn people who believe in such things, towards the One and only true and living God!

Remember the apostle Paul persecuted Christians and had them killed before his experience with Jesus, while on his way to kill some more. When you truly experience Jesus, face to face, your life is totally changed, just like his was, and you can't help but proclaim Jesus and His salvation for mankind!

Ladies, I beseech you, keep your focus on the One in whom we have to do. Those things that are being spoken isn't something that is important...even if it may hurt your feelings and offend you. Keep your eyes upon the prize and help to bring as many people as you can with you to get that prize as well!

May the Lord give you peace and may the joy of the Lord continue to be your strength!!!



N&W

 

[dicapr]

Define "not practicing sin". Doing any sin, whether it's everyday or once a year, is practicing sin. Jesus doesn't want us to sin, so why do we do it if we're suppose to love Him and spread the Gospel? Whether it's a "big" sin or "little" sin, ALL sin is displeasing to God. God hates ALL sin. How can we be an effective witness to a nonbeliever and we are lying, or fornicating, or making fun of people, or using curse words, and so on? That's practicing sin. We are being disobedient when we sin and fall out of fellowship with God. There's no way we are showing love to God when we sin every now and then.

To me practicing sin occurs when we no longer strive to do what we know is right. There are those who are aware of the sins in their lives, take ownership of the sin, and are in a state of continuous communion with God to change their minds and hearts and to give them victory over the sin. People forget the Christianity is based on the fact that we are imperfect creatures who need Christ to change us. The whole idea that once we accept Christ we are perfect has no biblical base. I call those beliefs Christian folklore. Look at David, a man after God's own heart. He lied, murdered, committed adultry, ect. Yet God still found him worthy of having Jesus come through his bloodline. David's hearts desire was to be sinless and serve God. He longed for the things of God and often his sins were not premeditated. David simply made mistakes. He also took ownership for his bad choices. Even when he took Bathsheba and killed her husband he did not understand the gravity of his error until the prophet pointed it out to him. Although he was a sinner, it was never his intent to move away from the word of God.
There are others who belive that God's grace excuses them of their responsibility to do right. They do not struggle against their nature and take it for granted that their will be forgiveness. They are practicing sin.
They are also those who subscribe to the whole "devil made me do it" excuse. A pastor said once that we need to stop blaming the devil for stuff he didn't do. Yes, when we are tempted it is not from God, but often times it our struggle with our own lusts and lack of relationship with God that does us in. We are ultimately responsible for the bad choices we make, whether we were tempted by Satan or our own sinful nature. Adam and Eve were held accountable for the choice they made of their own free will just as we will be.

 

[SND411]

I saw the thread title and passed right by it, because I knew it's nothing for me to be inquisitive about, so I didn't have a need to read anything in it.

However, I'm interested in why any of you would venture over to a thread like that? The bible tells us to “Guard your heart with all diligence for out of it flow the issues of life.” (Prov 4:23) Our eye gates are especially important to guard, because it can directly affect us in our thought patterns, if we are wavering...and there are many that do.

Those things aren't important to understand for us as believers. Yes, its helpful to read and understand about these things, but find out about it in another avenue, not on a forum where there will be hostility. It will only take the power of God to turn people who believe in such things, towards the One and only true and living God!

Remember the apostle Paul persecuted Christians and had them killed before his experience with Jesus, while on his way to kill some more. When you truly experience Jesus, face to face, your life is totally changed, just like his was, and you can't help but proclaim Jesus and His salvation for mankind!

Ladies, I beseech you, keep your focus on the One in whom we have to do. Those things that are being spoken isn't something that is important...even if it may hurt your feelings and offend you. Keep your eyes upon the prize and help to bring as many people as you can with you to get that prize as well!

May the Lord give you peace and may the joy of the Lord continue to be your strength!!!



N&W

I should have taken this advice. Thanks for this post

 

[Hair2Here]

I saw the thread title and passed right by it, because I knew it's nothing for me to be inquisitive about, so I didn't have a need to read anything in it.

However, I'm interested in why any of you would venture over to a thread like that? The bible tells us to “Guard your heart with all diligence for out of it flow the issues of life.” (Prov 4:23) Our eye gates are especially important to guard, because it can directly affect us in our thought patterns, if we are wavering...and there are many that do.

Those things aren't important to understand for us as believers. Yes, its helpful to read and understand about these things, but find out about it in another avenue, not on a forum where there will be hostility. It will only take the power of God to turn people who believe in such things, towards the One and only true and living God!

Remember the apostle Paul persecuted Christians and had them killed before his experience with Jesus, while on his way to kill some more. When you truly experience Jesus, face to face, your life is totally changed, just like his was, and you can't help but proclaim Jesus and His salvation for mankind!

Ladies, I beseech you, keep your focus on the One in whom we have to do. Those things that are being spoken isn't something that is important...even if it may hurt your feelings and offend you. Keep your eyes upon the prize and help to bring as many people as you can with you to get that prize as well!

May the Lord give you peace and may the joy of the Lord continue to be your strength!!!



N&W

Hi Nice and Wavy,

You are correct. But the Word also teaches us to spread the Gospel. For those who visited the other thread, our intent was to not go in a full debate with the nonbelievers but just to express our love and concern for their souls. Believe me, it was all done out of love. This is what prompted me to begin this thread. It sadden me so. I for one believe in sharing the 'good news' with all nonbelievers. If I can plant the seed, God can have someone add water knowing He will get the increase. You never know what soul may be saved from being a witness. Even in a thread like that.

A perfect example in this thread was another atheist who is now a believer. Did you read her blessing? It was very inspirational and I'm glad she was able to share.

We were not concern about the content in the other thread but about serving God and winning souls. The title alone is enough to know what they were talking about.

You used the perfect person in the Holy Bible, "Paul". God used Paul to preach the Living Word, to share the Truth to save souls.

Thanks for that example.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

I should have taken this advice. Thanks for this post

You are truly welcome, sis.

 

[dicapr]

Exactly, that's the thing. I'm looking at what my Bible says. It says being a Christian is not a free pass to sin, in Romans 6. But why are we as Christians making it out to be that way? "We're struggling with sin." How so and why? Are we really Christians if we are struggling with sin still? Believers shouldn't struggle with sin if they believe Jesus died for their sins. When Christians accept Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior, we're suppose to refrain from sin, repent from sin, die to sin just as Jesus died and rose again. The struggle that the Bible speaks of with believers is the struggle with temptation, the struggle with persecution for doing right! not for doing wrong or for sinning. The Bible says he who is born of God does not sin. The Bible says if you love me you'll keep my commandments. There's no way around that. How can any one of us call each other Christians and we are doing the same sins "every now and then" that bad people do?

We often do not allow ourselves and indivduals around us to grow up spiritually. Peter denied Jesus, yet Jesus chose him to "feed" his sheep. If we held Peter up to the Christian standard looking at his actions and not his heart as God did we would not have left Peter in charge. Paul struggled saying that the things he wanted to do he didn't and the things he didn't want to do he did. We shake our heads at indivduals who don't meet our "Christian" standards never knowing how far they have come in their walk. How are Christians who sin different from those who are sinners? It is the difference between someone who walks out of the store with something in their hand not meaning to take it and the person who stuffs their purse before leaving. Christians don't intend to sin, knowing that it separates them from the Lord. It is a mometary lapse, weakness, or in some cases ignorance of what is required of them. Sinners do not consider the right or wrong of the action, God's right to make demands on how the conduct themselves, and do not fear the separation that occurs from sinning. The difference is motivation not action.

 

[SND411]

Hi Nice and Wavy,

You are correct. But the Word also teaches us to spread the Gospel. For those who visited the other thread, our intent was to not go in a full debate with the nonbelievers but just to express our love and concern for their souls. Believe me, it was all done out of love. This is what prompted me to begin this thread. It sadden me so. I for one believe in sharing the 'good news' with all nonbelievers. If I can plant the seed, God can have someone add water knowing He will get the increase. You never know what soul may be saved from being a witness. Even in a that thread.

A perfect example in this thread was another atheist who is now a believer. Did you read her blessing? It was very inspirational and I'm glad she was able to share.

We were not concern about the content in the other thread but about serving God and winning souls. The title alone is enough to know what they were talking about.

You used the perfect person in the Holy Bible, "Paul". God used Paul to preach the Living Word, to share the Truth to save souls.

Thanks for that example.

The thing is, we also have to know when it's most advantageous to do so. Look at my posts in that thread. I was not even trying to prostlyze but offer another point of view, which was completely ripped to shreds (you would think free-thinkers would be open to all kinds of thought).

Sometimes it's best just to pray or perhaps find other ways. I honestly think we as Christians need to do more action and less "just talking."

 

[SND411]

We often do not allow ourselves and indivduals around us to grow up spiritually. Peter denied Jesus, yet Jesus chose him to "feed" his sheep. If we held Peter up to the Christian standard looking at his actions and not his heart as God did we would not have left Peter in charge. Paul struggled saying that the things he wanted to do he didn't and the things he didn't want to do he did. We shake our heads at indivduals who don't meet our "Christian" standards never knowing how far they have come in their walk. How are Christians who sin different from those who are sinners? It is the difference between someone who walks out of the store with something in their hand not meaning to take it and the person who stuffs their purse before leaving. Christians don't intend to sin, knowing that it separates them from the Lord. It is a mometary lapse, weakness, or in some cases ignorance of what is required of them. Sinners do not consider the right or wrong of the action, God's right to make demands on how the conduct themselves, and do not fear the separation that occurs from sinning. The difference is motivation not action.

I also find that some sins are more acceptable to "shake our heads" at. If people could look into our lives and shake their heads at every mistake we made, we would just offer the excuse, "well, I'm not perfect." How come we don't offer that reason for others? *thinking*

 

[Nice & Wavy]

I totally understand why you would want to go there for that purpose (sharing the Gospel), in love, but...even when we are to spread the Gospel, we must use wisdom into which venue we go to share it.

If we go to a gay bar and begin preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ, in love, to them....there may be a riot up in there and someone may/will get hurt. My point is, we may have all the right intentions in the world to go into a thread like that, but knowing what the outcome will be, will only cause us more heartache, because rejection will be at your very door. Just as the Lord bought us to Himself, the people that need Jesus will also come to Him. If the Lord uses us to lead them into a prayer of Salvation, then we will be used by Him to do so.

I have had many people come to me via pm's, asked questions, and gave their lives over to Jesus Christ. It's a beautiful thing.

I have 3 good friends who were once atheists, that are now filled with the Spirit of God, and are preaching the Gospel all over the world. I was told that what bought them to the Lord, was the fact that they watched true believers continue in their stand with the Lord, and not waiver. They wanted to have their peace and their joy, because although they knew they didn't believe in anyone to save them, they didn't have the peace that they saw the true Christians have, and they wanted it.

Our call is to minister to all people, but remember this...there will be people who will see Jesus crack the sky and still won't believe.

Winning souls is what Jesus does, sis. We are just to bring the people to the foot of the cross. He does the rest. We can stay right in the CF and people will come to Christ...happens all the time.

Loving you with the love of the Lord!

N&W

Hi Nice and Wavy,

You are correct. But the Word also teaches us to spread the Gospel. For those who visited the other thread, our intent was to not go in a full debate with the nonbelievers but just to express our love and concern for their souls. Believe me, it was all done out of love. This is what prompted me to begin this thread. It sadden me so. I for one believe in sharing the 'good news' with all nonbelievers. If I can plant the seed, God can have someone add water knowing He will get the increase. You never know what soul may be saved from being a witness. Even in a that thread.

A perfect example in this thread was another atheist who is now a believer. Did you read her blessing? It was very inspirational and I'm glad she was able to share.

We were not concern about the content in the other thread but about serving God and winning souls. The title alone is enough to know what they were talking about.

You used the perfect person in the Holy Bible, "Paul". God used Paul to preach the Living Word, to share the Truth to save souls.

Thanks for that example.

 

[Hair2Here]

The thing is, we also have to know when it's most advantageous to do so. Look at my posts in that thread. I was not even trying to prostlyze but offer another point of view, which was completely ripped to shreds (you would think free-thinkers would be open to all kinds of thought).

Sometimes it's best just to pray or perhaps find other ways. I honestly think we as Christians need to do more action and less "just talking."

I'm still glad you did what you did. Again, someone may still be pondering over your 'point of view'.

Short story: I was witnessing in the worst part of Philly. I gave this individual a Holy Bible and ask him to read it and told him God loves him. I walked away. The next think I knew, I felt the Bible hitting me in the back. Just because he tossed it away, doesn't mean someone else won't pick it up and read it. With that being said, I'm not looking for total acceptance when I do witness. I just do my part and move on. I never go into debates over the Word because I do not believe it was written for that purpose. I try and follow Jesus' steps and do all things in love. It's hard but I'm not doing it for me.

 

[Poohbear]

Poohbear, it seems that no one can convince you otherwise about this. Paul himself said that he struggled with doing what he did not want to do (Romans 7:14), and he wrote most of the new testament and had the most spiritual revelation from God of any christian to date. I don't think anyone here is doing any and everything under the sun, we are just admitting that we are not perfect. For example, we might catch an attitude every now and then, etc. Regarding the scripture you are referencing, other people have offered other scriptures that state that we all do sin. For example, some one mentioned the scripture that says "who that says he is without sin is a liar." God also says in his scripture that "there is none righteous, not one." God himself also says that "our righteousness is as filthy rags." Look at scriptures in conext of the whole bible.

I'm not trying to get convinced of anything. To me, a sinning Christian makes NO sense to me...especially when that sinning Christian points out the wrongs of other people. To me, the bible contradicts itself in so many ways. Just like the verse you mentioned about he who says they're without sin is a liar. Then it says he who sins in not of God and a child of the devil. It's like you can't win for losing as a Christian. So I don't know if I can call myself a Bible-believing Christian anymore. There are alot of principles in the Bible that are good as far as how we should live, but everything else is a big confusing unrealistic mess.

 

[Hair2Here]

I totally understand why you would want to go there for that purpose (sharing the Gospel), in love, but...even when we are to spread the Gospel, we must use wisdom into which venue we go to share it.

If we go to a gay bar and begin preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ, in love, to them....there may be a riot up in there and someone may/will get hurt. My point is, we may have all the right intentions in the world to go into a thread like that, but knowing what the outcome will be, will only cause us more heartache, because rejection will be at your very door. Just as the Lord bought us to Himself, the people that need Jesus will also come to Him. If the Lord uses us to lead them into a prayer of Salvation, then we will be used by Him to do so.

I have had many people come to me via pm's, asked questions, and gave their lives over to Jesus Christ. It's a beautiful thing.

I have 3 good friends who were once atheists, that are now filled with the Spirit of God, and are preaching the Gospel all over the world. I was told that what bought them to the Lord, was the fact that they watched true believers continue in their stand with the Lord, and not waiver. They wanted to have their peace and their joy, because although they knew they didn't believe in anyone to save them, they didn't have the peace that they saw the true Christians have, and they wanted it.

Our call is to minister to all people, but remember this...there will be people who will see Jesus crack the sky and still won't believe.

Winning souls is what Jesus does, sis. We are just to bring the people to the foot of the cross. He does the rest. We can stay right in the CF and people will come to Christ...happens all the time.

Loving you with the love of the Lord!

N&W

I gotcha sis.... Here's a wonderful story. The Pastor who married me went into a bar to witness. One guy said, "Preacher man, if you sit at this bar and have one drink with me, I'll come to your church and praise your God". The Pastor did it. It was extreme but it they guy came to church with him. The guy now is a deacon at his church.

I believe this is an awesome story. If the Pastor was asked to leave, I'm sure he would not have put up a fight. Again, when I witness, I do not know what to expect. I know for certain that I can't expect everyone to be Christ-like in every situation since they are not saved. I do not put myself in a situation where I would have to defend myself or pray my way out of.

 

[Poohbear]

When you get convicted of the wrong that you have done and repent, God restores you back. That is why God said that David was a man after His own heart because the minute he was alerted of his errors he quickly repented. Even the Bible says if we confess of our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness.

God uses believers to minister to the unbelievers that is to plan the seed, or water it, but God is the one that makes the seed grow.

1cor 3:7 says the one who plants the seed and the one who water it are not important, but God who keeps everything growing IS.


As for the continuing to practise sin, this is now a case of who is in control of your life, is it God or the flesh.
Many people jump up and say, "i'm born again." yet live like worse than the heathen. You will know them by their fruits.

The flesh has to die daily as Paul said. And it is hard to die daily. How many times do you want to flip the drive behind you for hooting and tailgating? How many times do you want to click your tongue at your boss or the check out girl?
Most of the time christian use justification as an excuse, "well they deserved it, they hurt me, the ignored me, they started it."
Do you know who is the actual offended party? The flesh. The flesh wants to be justified all the time.
If you put the flesh to death on a daily basis, you will overcome.
Yes, you will slip and fall, the righteous man falls 7 times and 7 times he will rise up.

About repentance, you must refrain from the sin completely in order to be completely restored in fellowship with God. We can't go back to that same sin and expect "Oh, God's gonna forgive me anyway and restore me back in his love and care and salvation."

"Die daily" means "dying to the flesh" and "resisting sin" and "not yielding to sin"... it does not mean "sinning everyday, asking for forgiveness everyday, repenting everday"....

 

[Nice & Wavy]

I gotcha sis.... Here's a wonderful story. The Pastor who married me went into a bar to witness. One guy said, "Preacher man, if you sit at this bar and have one drink with me, I'll come to your church and praise your God". The Pastor did it. It was extreme but it they guy came to church with him. The guy now is a deacon at his church.

I believe this is an awesome story. If the Pastor was asked to leave, I'm sure he would not have put up a fight. Again, when I witness, I do not know what to expect. I know for certain that I can't expect everyone to be Christ-like in every situation since they are not saved. I do not put myself in a situation where I would have to defend myself or pray my way out of.

Awesome story, yet I'm sure the Lord sent your Pastor there because that man was ready in his heart. Not everyone is ready.

It's a wonderful thing to witness the Gospel. I wouldn't try to hinder you or anyone for that matter. I encourage people to witness because how will people know about Jesus, if there is no one to tell them.

Be encouraged, sis. Jesus will reign forever!!!

God bless you, always!

 

[Nice & Wavy]

I'm not trying to get convinced of anything. To me, a sinning Christian makes NO sense to me...especially when that sinning Christian points out the wrongs of other people. To me, the bible contradicts itself in so many ways. Just like the verse you mentioned about he who says they're without sin is a liar. Then it says he who sins in not of God and a child of the devil. It's like you can't win for losing as a Christian. So I don't know if I can call myself a Bible-believing Christian anymore. There are alot of principles in the Bible that are good as far as how we should live, but everything else is a big confusing unrealistic mess.

Poohbear, sounds like you have your mind made up. Sometimes when you have your mind made up, nothing anyone says or do will change your mind.

Take care of yourself.

N&W

 

[Hair2Here]

I totally understand why you would want to go there for that purpose (sharing the Gospel), in love, but...even when we are to spread the Gospel, we must use wisdom into which venue we go to share it.

If we go to a gay bar and begin preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ, in love, to them....there may be a riot up in there and someone may/will get hurt. My point is, we may have all the right intentions in the world to go into a thread like that, but knowing what the outcome will be, will only cause us more heartache, because rejection will be at your very door. Just as the Lord bought us to Himself, the people that need Jesus will also come to Him. If the Lord uses us to lead them into a prayer of Salvation, then we will be used by Him to do so.

I have had many people come to me via pm's, asked questions, and gave their lives over to Jesus Christ. It's a beautiful thing.

I have 3 good friends who were once atheists, that are now filled with the Spirit of God, and are preaching the Gospel all over the world. I was told that what bought them to the Lord, was the fact that they watched true believers continue in their stand with the Lord, and not waiver. They wanted to have their peace and their joy, because although they knew they didn't believe in anyone to save them, they didn't have the peace that they saw the true Christians have, and they wanted it.

Our call is to minister to all people, but remember this...there will be people who will see Jesus crack the sky and still won't believe.

Winning souls is what Jesus does, sis. We are just to bring the people to the foot of the cross. He does the rest. We can stay right in the CF and people will come to Christ...happens all the time.

Loving you with the love of the Lord!

N&W

I gotcha sis.... Here's a wonderful story. The Pastor who married me went into a bar to witness. One guy said, "Preacher man, if you sit at this bar and have one drink with me, I'll come to your church and praise your God". The Pastor did it. It was extreme but it they guy came to church with him. The guy now is a deacon at his church.

I believe this is an awesome story. If the Pastor was asked to leave, I'm sure he would not have put up a fight. Again, when I witness, I do not know what to expect. I know for certain that I can't expect everyone to be Christ-like in every situation since they are not saved. I do not put myself in a situation where I would have to defend myself or pray my way out of.

The most effective means of winning souls to Christ is by sharing the Gospel one-on-one with people. Countless men and women have trusted Jesus as their Savior, because a friend or a stranger simply took the time to explain the Gospel to them.
Witnessing is OUR responsibility too. I'm not concerned about rejection or heartache. Worrying about that will only add fear to my witnessing. In fact, I expect it and let God handle it.

We can witness, win souls and Jesus will offer his salvation. Again, I take myself out of it.

Jesus said, "Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled." —Luke 14:23

Love and Blessings.....Hair2Here

 

[discobiscuits]

WARNING! WARNING! DISSERTATION ALERT!!​

Wow! That's what I'm talking about! I would love to cut and paste this in the other thread!

what's stopping you? you went in that thread and invited people to this one. they copied and pasted from this thread into that thread so why are you not "contending" your faith? BTW, i am not encouraging you to cause dischord over there. we are called to live peacefully with others so don't take my comment as encouragement to go back in that thread. not a sermon, just a thought.

Define "not practicing sin". Doing any sin, whether it's everyday or once a year, is practicing sin.

you answered it. it is exactly what you said. when i played sports, i practiced every day. when i stopped playing, i stopped everything; playing and practicing. i couldn't tell you where my tennis racket is. likewise, i never payed basketball so i never practiced playing bb. while one can commit one sin, sinning is continual willful disobedience, not just one act. just like righteousness can be one time but it is supposed to be ongoing not a one time thing at an altar or baptismal font. doctors and lawyers have a practice. they are supposed to continually hone their craft. they don't stop once they graduate, pass the bar or what have you. they must continue in their studies. same with sin OR righteousness. it is ongoing.

example: david. he did not practice sin (or if he did i did not read it in his story) but he sinned when he slept w/ Bathsheba and killed her husband. and after he repented he did not sin again (unless i again missed something). but b/c of his one (or two) recorded sin(s), there were consequences still being felt to this day.

conversely, a habitual sinner, a harlot was esteemed righteous b/c she lied and sent the men a different way.

the act of sin is a deliberate, willful act that one consciously decides to engage in. a transgression is accidental or more accurately, not intentional . someone does commit the sin but in error. sinning is habitually committing sin, aka practicing. bottom line: sinning is continual. one can have sinned in the past but stop, repent and never sin again.

i used to use that stuff paul wrote as an excuse for me to sin. i kept saying well it's okay b/c paul said in our flesh dwells no good thing and it serves sin but as long as my mind & heart are in the right place my body can be elsewhere. and no matter how many times i read rom 7 it reads as if he is saying that he practices sin against his own will, that he cannot control it. because of that passage i've often wondered and doubted that anyone can live sin free like jesus said. OR that it was a trick bag from god to watch us try and fail. i felt paul was basically contradicting jesus. he even begins the commentary w/ had we not be told what sin was we would not know and therefore not desire to do it. translation: parent says don't do that & the child immediately wants to but if they were never restricted from it, they would not desire to do it. adam & eve were told to not eat from the tree. they didn't even think about it till its desirability was brought to their attn then they were like well why not? had they not been restricted, they may or may not have eaten from it but no matter what it could not have been used to tempt them to disobey god had god not restricted them from it. plus they could have resisted the devil but didn't.

that is what paul is saying the flesh desires to do what it is restricted from doing. and if we do those things, we do so willingly and knowingly b/c we knew what we were doing when we did it. but we would not want to do them had we been told not to do them. i don't think that he meant that it is okay to sin b/c our flesh demands it. i think he was lamenting the sate that we are in being both spirit and flesh. those two aspects of us are at war with each other.

but in my opinion, i say that no matter what, we can set our minds to defy our flesh and cause our flesh to conform. your mind (will) and heart (intent) dictate where your body goes and what it does. your mouth utters what is in your heart/mind. words are active, creative forces that set events in motion. even unbelieving LOAers know this concept and use it successfully even w/o christ. your mind devises plans that your body carries out. you can also sin with thoughts. you can devise good or evil. it is all choice. athletes do this as well. they are tired, hurt, frustrated but they set a goal, envision achieving that goal and everything they do is to that end. science has proven that the mind controls the body. we can think a thing and the body reacts as if it is experiencing that thing even though it is not.

all of that to say: jesus taught us the heart & mind are where it begins and it counts there just as if you did it in the flesh (ex: lustful thoughts are the same as if you physically committed the sexual sin). jesus instructed practicing sinners to go and sin no more after he had forgiven them or chose not to pass judgment. that means every believer can live sin free and must decide in their minds and intend in their hearts to do so. no excuses. no "the flesh is weak" crap. that is a cop-out. jesus resisted the devil not because he is jesus but because he chose to resist and as a result showed us it can be done.

we can clean our minds out by the word. the world uses the techniques jesus taught and they are successful and they do it apart from jesus. how much more can we who profess to have jesus do the same? how can we let unbelievers use the same tools we have and build a better house? some of us are still laying the foundation (milk) and we need to grow up and build the frame, the walls, the roof, brick it up and lock the door so that we can live, move and have our being in christ like we are supposed to.

jesus said if we had faith, not even a lot but a little - a mustard seed- we could speak and move a mountain. literally, not figuratively. without faith we can't please god. without faith peter began to sink in the water where before he was walking on it. jesus spoke to the weather and it obeyed. he cursed a plant and it died. we can do the same. he said that all i do those who believe on me (faith) can do the same and more. when he or the disciples healed people they spoke. he healed the roman soldier's servant miles away with a word. the soldier even knew a word is a creative force and something will obey it if the speaker possesses the authority. the tower of babel, god said what man puts his mind to do will happen. god gave man the authority in the earth in genesis. as believers filled w/ the HS we have even more power and authority. we are supposed to have faith and the mind of god and we can speak and cause things to conform to our will. if we are yielded to His will, our will will be the same as his. why is it we cannot do what jesus said we can do? is it practicing sin? is it lack of faithful obedience? is it lack of faith?

how dare a non-believing LOAer, new ager or similar be successful with our tools (speaking things into being) and yet we condemn them when we should be the ones to use those tools while showing others a more excellent way. how are new agers and the like so successful at drawing even believers away??? because they do just like the devil did. they use god's words/tools. in eden satan used god's own words at eve "you won't surely die." didn't god say the day you eat there of you will die? who was the liar? not god. didn't satan use god's own words again against jesus? "he will bear you up". but jesus did what eve and adam failed to do: he used god's word right back. who was the liar then? the same person (satan) different outcome.

so now someone will quote this and counter with something like well he's jesus we're not, adam and eve were not. yes that is true but that does not mean that they could not have resisted or we cannot emulate and succeed like jesus. take enoch he loved god so much he never saw death. tell me, where in the bible does it say enoch sinned? it does not. i contend that enoch did not sin which is why he was translated. the bible says sinful flesh cannot be with the lord but god took enoch in the flesh. i contend that he was an example that faithful obedience to god can be achieved. "but the bible says all have sinned and fallen short..." the bible does not say that of enoch.

and just in case there is a question of jesus' humanity, when he prayed the real lord's prayer he asked his father to take this cup from him. he did not want to die. he did not want to be tortured. he wanted a lamb in the bush like issac got. abraham faithfully obeyed God and was going to sacrifice issac but god spared isaac with a lamb. but jesus denied his human nature of self preservation and yielded himself to god's will (not my will but your will - indicating his will was not to be sacrificed). jesus did not have to do that. he could have chosen to rebel and say no, i will to not do it, but he did not. faithful obedience to the cross for our benefit.

in my opinion because of what jesus said: i believe that any born-again believer can live a 100% sin-free life because jesus said so. if he said so then it is so. the believer can choose to sin or not to sin. it really is that simple. is it easy? not at all but it is achievable and i further contend that any believer who says it is not achievable is a liar and is calling jesus a liar.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

I gotcha sis.... Here's a wonderful story. The Pastor who married me went into a bar to witness. One guy said, "Preacher man, if you sit at this bar and have one drink with me, I'll come to your church and praise your God". The Pastor did it. It was extreme but it they guy came to church with him. The guy now is a deacon at his church.

I believe this is an awesome story. If the Pastor was asked to leave, I'm sure he would not have put up a fight. Again, when I witness, I do not know what to expect. I know for certain that I can't expect everyone to be Christ-like in every situation since they are not saved. I do not put myself in a situation where I would have to defend myself or pray my way out of.

The most effective means of winning souls to Christ is by sharing the Gospel one-on-one with people. Countless men and women have trusted Jesus as their Savior, because a friend or a stranger simply took the time to explain the Gospel to them.
Witnessing is OUR responsibility too. I'm not concerned about rejection or heartache. Worrying about that will only add fear to my witnessing. In fact, I expect it and let God handle it.

We can witness, win souls and Jesus will offer his salvation. Again, I take myself out of it.

Jesus said, "Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled." —Luke 14:23

Love and Blessings.....Hair2Here

Thanks for the added addition to your post.

As a person who leads many people to Christ on a weekly basis, I totally agree and understand that it is OUR responsibility to witness the Gospel to people. I take it that what I'm sharing in this thread is not being fully understood, so I will leave by saying that I thank God that you have a heart for ministry and I thank Him that you are willing to do so gracefully. May your continue in what you are doing in the Kingdom!

Blessings, always!

N&W

 

[Guitarhero]

I actually found the thread to be quite interesting and enlightening.

I myself am struggling with the whole idea of what it means to be a Christian. I feel like I'm becoming Agnostic due to all the division among Christianity, corruption, and hypocrisy. If Jesus is the one true way, then why are so many "Christians" abusing God's grace with their sins, and at the same time, looking down on others who sin or don't believe in God or Jesus? Aren't you as a Christian acting like someone who doesn't believe in God when you sin all day everyday and make an excuse that you can't stop because of your sinful fleshly nature from Adam?

In every religion you have this. Every last one. For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, even you, even me, even every single person. Romans 3:9. RE: sin and the christian and why people keep sinning? Obviously, we sin and keep on doing it. Some sins are hard to break and some are easier but it all depends upon the individual and their own personal struggles. Jesus tells us to get up over and over again. Every time we fall, get up. That's the christian - not the perfect person who really isn't perfect. It's the humble person who realizes his weaknesses and gets up to try again. If he tells us to forgive 70 times 7, imagine how the Father forgives even more? If we can give good things to our children, the Father gives even more! The reason for the division in christianity?

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I have been misrepresented
by those who don't know me.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
John 8:41-44


[/FONT]I think that very scripture ought to hit every believer's mind every morning and with introspection and humility, look at the realities. Are we truly His friend? Therefore, it's up to each and every individual to strive to better him/herself. Not to brag, not to think he's perfect,but to look upward at the one who is absolute perfection and emulate Him, getting up again everytime we fall and forgiving each and every person who harms us. There are no perfect christians. Thank you for the reminder, dear one. You see, even in your struggles,you have shed light on something many people need to think about.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]


[/FONT]​

 

[Poohbear]

you answered it. it is exactly what you said. when i played sports, i practiced every day. when i stopped playing, i stopped everything; playing and practicing. i couldn't tell you where my tennis racket is. likewise, i never payed basketball so i never practiced playing bb. while one can commit one sin, sinning is continual willful disobedience, not just one act. just like righteousness can be one time but it is supposed to be ongoing not a one time thing at an altar or baptismal font. doctors and lawyers have a practice. they are supposed to continually hone their craft. they don't stop once they graduate, pass the bar or what have you. they must continue in their studies. same with sin OR righteousness. it is ongoing.example: david. he did not practice sin (or if he did i did not read it in his story) but he sinned when he slept w/ Bathsheba and killed her husband. and after he repented he did not sin again (unless i again missed something). but b/c of his one (or two) recorded sin(s), there were consequences still being felt to this day.
conversely, a habitual sinner, a harlot was esteemed righteous b/c she lied and sent the men a different way.
the act of sin is a deliberate, willful act that one consciously decides to engage in. a transgression is accidental or more accurately, not intentional . someone does commit the sin but in error. sinning is habitually committing sin, aka practicing. bottom line: sinning is continual. one can have sinned in the past but stop, repent and never sin again.

i used to use that stuff paul wrote as an excuse for me to sin. i kept saying well it's okay b/c paul said in our flesh dwells no good thing and it serves sin but as long as my mind & heart are in the right place my body can be elsewhere. and no matter how many times i read rom 7 it reads as if he is saying that he practices sin against his own will, that he cannot control it. because of that passage i've often wondered and doubted that anyone can live sin free like jesus said. OR that it was a trick bag from god to watch us try and fail. i felt paul was basically contradicting jesus. he even begins the commentary w/ had we not be told what sin was we would not know and therefore not desire to do it. translation: parent says don't do that & the child immediately wants to but if they were never restricted from it, they would not desire to do it. adam & eve were told to not eat from the tree. they didn't even think about it till its desirability was brought to their attn then they were like well why not? had they not been restricted, they may or may not have eaten from it but no matter what it could not have been used to tempt them to disobey god had god not restricted them from it. plus they could have resisted the devil but didn't.

that is what paul is saying the flesh desires to do what it is restricted from doing. and if we do those things, we do so willingly and knowingly b/c we knew what we were doing when we did it. but we would not want to do them had we been told not to do them. i don't think that he meant that it is okay to sin b/c our flesh demands it. i think he was lamenting the sate that we are in being both spirit and flesh. those two aspects of us are at war with each other.
but in my opinion, i say that no matter what, we can set our minds to defy our flesh and cause our flesh to conform. your mind (will) and heart (intent) dictate where your body goes and what it does. your mouth utters what is in your heart/mind. words are active, creative forces that set events in motion. even unbelieving LOAers know this concept and use it successfully even w/o christ. your mind devises plans that your body carries out. you can also sin with thoughts. you can devise good or evil. it is all choice. athletes do this as well. they are tired, hurt, frustrated but they set a goal, envision achieving that goal and everything they do is to that end. science has proven that the mind controls the body. we can think a thing and the body reacts as if it is experiencing that thing even though it is not.
all of that to say: jesus taught us the heart & mind are where it begins and it counts there just as if you did it in the flesh (ex: lustful thoughts are the same as if you physically committed the sexual sin). jesus instructed practicing sinners to go and sin no more after he had forgiven them or chose not to pass judgment. that means every believer can live sin free and must decide in their minds and intend in their hearts to do so. no excuses. no "the flesh is weak" crap. that is a cop-out. jesus resisted the devil not because he is jesus but because he chose to resist and as a result showed us it can be done.
we can clean our minds out by the word. the world uses the techniques jesus taught and they are successful and they do it apart from jesus. how much more can we who profess to have jesus do the same? how can we let unbelievers use the same tools we have and build a better house? some of us are still laying the foundation (milk) and we need to grow up and build the frame, the walls, the roof, brick it up and lock the door so that we can live, move and have our being in christ like we are supposed to.
jesus said if we had faith, not even a lot but a little - a mustard seed- we could speak and move a mountain. literally, not figuratively. without faith we can't please god. without faith peter began to sink in the water where before he was walking on it. jesus spoke to the weather and it obeyed. he cursed a plant and it died. we can do the same. he said that all i do those who believe on me (faith) can do the same and more. when he or the disciples healed people they spoke. he healed the roman soldier's servant miles away with a word. the soldier even knew a word is a creative force and something will obey it if the speaker possesses the authority. the tower of babel, god said what man puts his mind to do will happen. god gave man the authority in the earth in genesis. as believers filled w/ the HS we have even more power and authority. we are supposed to have faith and the mind of god and we can speak and cause things to conform to our will. if we are yielded to His will, our will will be the same as his. why is it we cannot do what jesus said we can do? is it practicing sin? is it lack of faithful obedience? is it lack of faith?

how dare a non-believing LOAer, new ager or similar be successful with our tools (speaking things into being) and yet we condemn them when we should be the ones to use those tools while showing others a more excellent way. how are new agers and the like so successful at drawing even believers away??? because they do just like the devil did. they use god's words/tools. in eden satan used god's own words at eve "you won't surely die." didn't god say the day you eat there of you will die? who was the liar? not god. didn't satan use god's own words again against jesus? "he will bear you up". but jesus did what eve and adam failed to do: he used god's word right back. who was the liar then? the same person (satan) different outcome.
so now someone will quote this and counter with something like well he's jesus we're not, adam and eve were not. yes that is true but that does not mean that they could not have resisted or we cannot emulate and succeed like jesus. take enoch he loved god so much he never saw death. tell me, where in the bible does it say enoch sinned? it does not. i contend that enoch did not sin which is why he was translated. the bible says sinful flesh cannot be with the lord but god took enoch in the flesh. i contend that he was an example that faithful obedience to god can be achieved. "but the bible says all have sinned and fallen short..." the bible does not say that of enoch.
and just in case there is a question of jesus' humanity, when he prayed the real lord's prayer he asked his father to take this cup from him. he did not want to die. he did not want to be tortured. he wanted a lamb in the bush like issac got. abraham faithfully obeyed God and was going to sacrifice issac but god spared isaac with a lamb. but jesus denied his human nature of self preservation and yielded himself to god's will (not my will but your will - indicating his will was not to be sacrificed). jesus did not have to do that. he could have chosen to rebel and say no, i will to not do it, but he did not. faithful obedience to the cross for our benefit.
in my opinion because of what jesus said: i believe that any born-again believer can live a 100% sin-free life because jesus said so. if he said so then it is so. the believer can choose to sin or not to sin. it really is that simple. is it easy? not at all but it is achievable and i further contend that any believer who says it is not achievable is a liar and is calling jesus a liar.

THANK YOU!!! Nice post 1star. Someone is seeing where I am coming from...

David SINNED... he did not continue to sin. He did not go back and sleep with Bathesheba. God forgave him and he repented. Yes, he was after God's heart. He stopped sinning.

Paul SINNED... he did not continue to sin. God forgave him and he changed from being a persecutor of Christians.

And Jesus told two other people in the New Testament to "Go and sin NO MORE".

According to the Bible, God calls for us to be WHOLEheartedly for Him, not lukewarm.

 

[Poohbear]

In every religion you have this. Every last one. For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, even you, even me, even every single person. Romans 3:9. RE: sin and the christian and why people keep sinning? Obviously, we sin and keep on doing it. Some sins are hard to break and some are easier but it all depends upon the individual and their own personal struggles. Jesus tells us to get up over and over again. Every time we fall, get up. That's the christian - not the perfect person who really isn't perfect. It's the humble person who realizes his weaknesses and gets up to try again. If he tells us to forgive 70 times 7, imagine how the Father forgives even more? If we can give good things to our children, the Father gives even more! The reason for the division in christianity?

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I have been misrepresented [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]by those who don't know me.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]John 8:41-44[/FONT]


I think that very scripture ought to hit every believer's mind every morning and with introspection and humility, look at the realities. Are we truly His friend? Therefore, it's up to each and every individual to strive to better him/herself. Not to brag, not to think he's perfect,but to look upward at the one who is absolute perfection and emulate Him, getting up again everytime we fall and forgiving each and every person who harms us. There are no perfect christians. Thank you for the reminder, dear one. You see, even in your struggles,you have shed light on something many people need to think about.

Donnie McClurkin is the one who said "we fall down, but we get up".

Sinners and wrongdoers struggle with sin.

A true believer struggles with persecution and temptation.

No one is perfect since we all have sinned or are sinning right now. The thing is, we are called to be Holy if we are born of God and believe in Him. We are to take off the old and put on the new...not keep going back and forth to the old.

I don't know if you've seen any of my other posts, but I even question myself whether or not I'm a true Christian because of sin. I'm a relatively good person but I still sin according to the Bible. I've been taught the same things about forgiveness and repentance that God forgives 70 times 7, over and over. But if you really look at the scripture, Jesus is just telling us to forgive our brother 70 times 7. He didn't say God is the same way. God was like that in the Old Testament when people kept backsliding but the Messiah had not come yet. People had to give up sacrifices and sin offerings for their sins. God forgave them over and over. Then he came down as Jesus in the flesh to show us how to live without sin. We must confess with our mouth and believe in our heart that He is the Son of God, Lord, and Savior, and we are saved. We must repent of our sins, completely turn away and do them no more. But true repentance has been watered down over the years. So that's where some of my confusion lies as well, it has to do with me too, not just other people and what they say.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

............................

 

[Poohbear]

Poohbear, sounds like you have your mind made up. Sometimes when you have your mind made up, nothing anyone says or do will change your mind.

Take care of yourself.

N&W

I'm not expecting or asking anyone to change my mind. Don't you realize that no one can change anyone's mind? Plus, aren't Christians suppose to let God do the changing in people's lives? And I don't even have my mind made up about anything anyway. I can express my thoughts and feelings on here just like you or anyone else.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

I'm not expecting or asking anyone to change my mind. Don't you realize that no one can change anyone's mind? Plus, aren't Christians suppose to let God do the changing in people's lives? And I don't even have my mind made up about anything anyway. I can express my thoughts and feelings on here just like you or anyone else.

Why are you so angry with me in your post, Poohbear? I did not disrespect you in anyway by my post. I was reading what you wrote about how you feel that you are no longer a bible believing Christian, and so I made my post...that's all.

So I don't know if I can call myself a Bible-believing Christian anymore.

I will no longer make any other comments in your posts or threads, ok?

Take care.

 

[Poohbear]

Why are you so angry with me in your post, Poohbear? I did not disrespect you in anyway by my post. I was reading what you wrote about how you feel that you are no longer a bible believing Christian, and so I made my post...that's all.

I will no longer make any other comments in your posts or threads, ok?

Take care.

Nice&Wavy, I am not angry at you... Where did you get that from? Maybe it was just the way you interpreted my tone due to my own personal frustrations with the Christian religion. I wasn't disrespecting you in my posts either. And I know what I have said...what's the point of throwing it in my face again? If you do not want to comment on my posts or threads, that's up to you. I have no problem with that. Like I said, I can express my thoughts and feelings. This is a forum and this is a country where freedom of speech is allowed. I didn't say anything disrespectful to you nor about you.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

Nice&Wavy, I am not angry at you... Where did you get that from? Maybe it was just the way you interpreted my tone due to my own personal frustrations with the Christian religion. I wasn't disrespecting you in my posts either. And I know what I have said...what's the point of throwing it in my face again? If you do not want to comment on my posts or threads, that's up to you. I have no problem with that. Like I said, I can express my thoughts and feelings. This is a forum and this is a country where freedom of speech is allowed. I didn't say anything disrespectful to you nor about you.

I never said you disrespected ME, Poohbear, I said that I did not disrespect you in my post, so I didn't understand why you seemed angry.

Your tone is really uncalled for. No one here has come against you in any way and yet, because of your frustration with Christianity, you are seemingly on the attack. It's really not cool.

You can say whatever you want, Poohbear, no one said you couldn't.

The point of me quoting you again was because I felt the need too. I wasn't "Throwing anything up in your face."

Do whatever you need to do. Take care.

 

[Poohbear]

How am I attacking??? The Bible does advise us not to sin but we sin anyway and give a ton of excuses to do so. That's what should be uncalled for and not cool.

And why do you feel the "need" to repeat what I said? How can ANY of us call ourselves Bible-believing Christians if we are sinning!? That's the point I was making with that statement anyway.

You shouldn't feel offended by anything I have said. I just see the Bible giving out different messages than what most Christians are teaching and preaching these days.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

Hey look, I'm done here in this thread with you. You take care.

N&W

 

[Guitarhero]

Donnie McClurkin is the one who said "we fall down, but we get up".

Sinners and wrongdoers struggle with sin.

A true believer struggles with persecution and temptation.

No one is perfect since we all have sinned or are sinning right now. The thing is, we are called to be Holy if we are born of God and believe in Him. We are to take off the old and put on the new...not keep going back and forth to the old.

I don't know if you've seen any of my other posts, but I even question myself whether or not I'm a true Christian because of sin. I'm a relatively good person but I still sin according to the Bible. I've been taught the same things about forgiveness and repentance that God forgives 70 times 7, over and over. But if you really look at the scripture, Jesus is just telling us to forgive our brother 70 times 7. He didn't say God is the same way. God was like that in the Old Testament when people kept backsliding but the Messiah had not come yet. People had to give up sacrifices and sin offerings for their sins. God forgave them over and over. Then he came down as Jesus in the flesh to show us how to live without sin. We must confess with our mouth and believe in our heart that He is the Son of God, Lord, and Savior, and we are saved. We must repent of our sins, completely turn away and do them no more. But true repentance has been watered down over the years. So that's where some of my confusion lies as well, it has to do with me too, not just other people and what they say.

I believe the realities are than man sins, even christians. About falling and getting back up, it's not McClurkin's words, it's the Father's design. That why we are to confess our sins and move ahead. There is a difference between willfully, habitually sinning something very serious and the myriad of ways we can sin through omission and commission, often, without realizing it.

Although I understand your stance, I don't think it gives you the freedom you need to stand and walk the path you have chosen. It seems like some sort of legalism that is choking the way of joy and peace. You are tripping on the "sin" part and not gloring in the "alive" part. I think the key is finding the balance, and this is what you are doing, finding that balance. We all have parts where we are searching for it. But I'm not going to believe for myself that an area that I struggle in is going to condemn me to hell because I have not found absolute and permanent freedom from it. That is why I repent. Children do not learn to become adults the day after birth, it is a process. The apostles lived it, the saints live it every day.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

nevermind........