High Expectations in Dating

[Ms Red]

I am newly single after a long relationship (~6 months out of the relationship, which to me is 'new').

I am disappointed and a little shocked at the lack of courting and gentlemanly behavior I am receiving. erplexed From the stories I hear from girlfriends and read on LHCF, I know I shouldn't be surprised.... but- it's still alarming. I take 'courting' to mean that I am dating with a purpose.

The man I am talking to balked at the idea that I expect flowers (pink roses or something feminine) or a small token of affection before a first date. That is what my ex did.

He thinks I am 'spoiled' because I expect him to not only open doors and pull out chairs but I think it's rude for him to allow me to pay for anything. My company should be sufficient. Especially at the BEGINNING of a relationship.

Expecting a man to plan a proper date (not sitting on a couch watching a game ) is a normal expectation. I've noticed that this guy is not outright stingy or cheap when it comes to dates we have been on. But, there are no gifts or no tokens of affection (whether bought, made, cheap, free or expensive), no wining or dining. At all.

Since we are at the beginning, I made my expectations known (mistake or not, I feel like he needs to know from Day 1). We are long distance and he initially came down to visit for a long weekend. Overall I had a good time, but there were certain things (him not bringing flowers or pulling out my chair, etc.) that were offputting. I feel that the caliber of women he has dated in the past has left something to be desired. For instance, to me, sleeping with someone for 3 months with a couple of dinners thrown in for good measure and then calling it a 'relationship' is like calling a duck a swan.

I just feel like women should be treated well. In turn, I'm prepared to treat him well, too-- I don't mind reciprocating 100%. I told him this and he claims that he can 'handle it' but I'm not so sure. He knows that I am very loving, affectionate and compromising-- but I also want to be treated well.

Has anyone experienced this? Have you lowered your standards? Any advice?

 

[LoveLiLi]

Yes, I've come across a few guys who didn't exhibit gentlemanly behavior and a couple who were cheap. I stopped talking to them/spending time with them and focused on the men who knew how to treat me.

I will give a guy a chance if his overall behavior is on point and he makes a small slip-up. I'll simply communicate what I expect. If he still messes up after that or brushes off what I have to say then he gets the boot.

I'm almost 30 years old, and I won't be wasting any energy on men who don't meet my standards. I don't feel like what most women expect out of these men is asking much; some men are just used to getting away with being cheap etc. I think they know what they should be doing and will fall in line when they realize that we won't accept subpar behavior.

I do have to say that the men I've been talking to lately have been really good guys and I think that's all I'm getting these days because that's all I'll accept (if that makes sense).

 

[AnjelLuvs]

Nah I just dont date... Women are giving men an EAZY pas which is why they dont work for theirs... In NYC the courting is slim to none....

 

[Belle Du Jour]

Women who don't expect the best from their men ruin them for the rest of us. But I'm starting to think some of them have never been taught in the first place.

 

[lexi08]

Women who don't expect the best from their men ruin them for the rest of us. But I'm starting to think some of them have never been taught in the first place.

This is exactly part of the problem.

 

[brownsugarflyygirl]

Yes, I find that I have that problem as well. However, what I have learned to realize is that men kinda step up their game over time as they fall in love. With your ex, he was probably in love with you and so did a certain level of things. Men take time to get to that point....so someone new may not do all of that.

At the same time, I think that opening doors, pulling out chairs, etc. is basic chivalry and should be done regardles.
I have found myself "acclamating" men to my expections as I interact with them. My favorite quote is "chivalry is NOT dead!" so I only interact with men with whom it is on and poppin'... If the current guy is really into you, then he'll step up his game to meet your expectations...if he is not willing to do so... NEXT!! Although that caliber of man is rare, he DOES exist...so just wait until you meet Him and dont waste your time on men that act like its that hard to stop by the grocery store or flower shop and pick up a dozen.

 

[MizAvalon]

I am newly single after a long relationship (~6 months out of the relationship, which to me is 'new').

I am disappointed and a little shocked at the lack of courting and gentlemanly behavior I am receiving. erplexed From the stories I hear from girlfriends and read on LHCF, I know I shouldn't be surprised.... but- it's still alarming. I take 'courting' to mean that I am dating with a purpose.

The man I am talking to balked at the idea that I expect flowers (pink roses or something feminine) or a small token of affection before a first date. That is what my ex did.

He thinks I am 'spoiled' because I expect him to not only open doors and pull out chairs but I think it's rude for him to allow me to pay for anything. My company should be sufficient. Especially at the BEGINNING of a relationship.

Expecting a man to plan a proper date (not sitting on a couch watching a game ) is a normal expectation. I've noticed that this guy is not outright stingy or cheap when it comes to dates we have been on. But, there are no gifts or no tokens of affection (whether bought, made, cheap, free or expensive), no wining or dining. At all.

Since we are at the beginning, I made my expectations known (mistake or not, I feel like he needs to know from Day 1). We are long distance and he initially came down to visit for a long weekend. Overall I had a good time, but there were certain things (him not bringing flowers or pulling out my chair, etc.) that were offputting. I feel that the caliber of women he has dated in the past has left something to be desired. For instance, to me, sleeping with someone for 3 months with a couple of dinners thrown in for good measure and then calling it a 'relationship' is like calling a duck a swan.

I just feel like women should be treated well. In turn, I'm prepared to treat him well, too-- I don't mind reciprocating 100%. I told him this and he claims that he can 'handle it' but I'm not so sure. He knows that I am very loving, affectionate and compromising-- but I also want to be treated well.

Has anyone experienced this? Have you lowered your standards? Any advice?

I completely agree with this entire post and my expectations are exactly the same. If you want to see me, then you will COURT me. PERIOD. I don't do that sitting on the couch crap when I just met you 3 weeks ago.

The good thing about these men is that they show their true colors right up front so you don't even have to waste any time.

 

[MizAvalon]

Women who don't expect the best from their men ruin them for the rest of us. But I'm starting to think some of them have never been taught in the first place.

Agreed. So many men and women, especially younger ones, just have no idea how to DATE. While the art of courtship isnt lost, it's certainly in a very sad state.

 

[Kiadodie]

Yes, this is very common these days. They either take you to the club/bar on the first date or they'll ask to come over and "watch a
movie". It's very annoying. I'm over it and that's why I chose to stop dating for now.

 

[LivingDoll]

Women who don't expect the best from their men ruin them for the rest of us. But I'm starting to think some of them have never been taught in the first place.

This is exactly the problem.

 

[Belle Du Jour]

I was just reading a blog entry by member Rozlips and she said men want to be romantic and chivalrous. They enjoy making a woman happy. But some of us are so jaded and bitter that we see anything romantic as an affront to our independence. I'm sorry, but I want to be spoiled, courted, wooed until I can't take it no more.

 

[NewYorkgyrl]

I have not dated in awhile. Part of the reason is exactly as you described.

But this post just made me feel better about not lowering my standards...even if that means I may have to wait till I am 30 for the right guy. The least that a man can do is open doors, pull out chairs, and pay for the first date. I know that today's economy is bad and that people don't even want to drive anymore because of gas prices but I feel that if a guy is really into you and willing to go above and beyond he will be creatice with his dates within a reasonable buget. It may not be an expensive restaurant (which is quite Ok with me...my stomach can't handle most things these days) it could be the botanical gardens, bronx zoo, aquarium, central park, ice skating, roller skating, picnic in the park, county fair, etc.....

 

[ThickHair]

I have dated 2 who started off very chivalrous then after a few months just stop. I had to let the last dude go because of a few incidents. Ex we were going to dinner and I let him go first to open the door for me, this **** said, "Yea know, ladies can open the door if they get there first". EXCUSE THE SIHT OUT OF ME. 2nd incident, we went to the Cheesecake Factory and after all his talk, I want to treat you like a queen and I love to feed you, emotionally, spiritually........he told me I could pay for this dinner. Now mind you I know that I can pay for a meal every now and again but don't bring it up at meal time. Those are minor incidences but I started to really pay attention to dude and he started to really flip the script on me. Come to find out he was in a pinch financially, well a death grip and he wanted me to start taking him on dates all of the time. Hell to the no.

BTW this was not some young dude, homey was 58 years old with a grown daughter and no exwife. WTH was the deal with that.

ETA: Now thinking back, he may have figured that I was an easy target to get some money. I was 35, no kids and had a nice job. He wined, dined, licked the toes and everything to lure me in. I wasn't as young and naive as he thought I was, apparently.

 

[prettypuff1]

Yes, this is very common these days. They either take you to the club/bar on the first date or they'll ask to come over and "watch a
movie". It's very annoying. I'm over it and that's why I chose to stop dating for now.

You know they kill me with this crap.. Lets watch a movie..... CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!erplexed
I fell for a few times, and you wanna try to be all in this and get mad when i leave....


Now i am all liberated and crap but when i want to date, dog nabbit.

I want genuine courtship. i want you to come to my house, introduce yourself to my parents as i live with them, open all doors, bring flowers and all that jazz....


I think that a lot of them are used to getting away with it, but they also don't have any examples of men in their lives both ways. How many on this board can say that they see ther parents still engaging in this kind of behavior as an example for how dating should occur. I am blessed enough to say that I have been exposed to that and I know that is how it should be. Married or not, the examples aren't there. Even if you are single and parenting, you should be leading your child by example. You as a parent aren't leading by example so you are setting suzie or joe up for failure.

Not that it excuses you from missing scruples.... We need to demand better. Men hold us to ridiculious standards and we JUMP THROUGH HOOPS to do them, but we can't do the same.. For real u kidding? You better be lucky i am going out with you, you can open the door bring me flowers, appricate me, get off your phone when we are out, help me into my coat pull out my chair and allow me to order first...

I know that for this reason i don't date. the second i say i want to date and court, it is like they have no clue what that means....

I won't compromise what i want so lets cut it now...

 

[Choclatcotton]

I think they are not being taught because it starts in child hood. My Brother had to let us go first, open the car door for us sisters and respect us. I see little boys in school run over girls, play rough, disrespect, and ignore them. THere is no respect or regard anymore for the female gender.

 

[spelmanlocks]

Before I met my fiance I dated a guy who never bought me flowers or any kind of gift for that matter. Once he did give me a blockbuster gift card that he won at a rafflle and he never took me out on a date ever unless taco bell counts. He was definitely one of those lets chill at the apartment tonight type of guys. We dated so long that when I met my fiance I ended up on cloud nine almost immediately and didn't know what to think of all the romance he was pouring on me.

With my fiance the romance started right away. Nice restuarant for our first date, holding doors, bringing flowers, doing all kinds of romantic thoughtful things. Hence why he's my fiance and not my ex. Definitely don't settle. Life is so much better with a guy who likes to do things to take care of his lady. I'd also agree that there are a lot of cheap and rude men out here, but send them to the left so they know there behavior is not acceptable. True story also, I once had a guy I dated tell me thanks for dumping him and telling him about himself because he didn't realize how selfish he was and how bad he treated women until after I told him off and he had a chance to realize what I said was true.

 

[kayte]

I absolutely support and personally desire the idea of being wooed and courted. I feel like....the OP.... worthy of this value and attention.
and I am not in favor of lowering standards..

There are guys out there who do buy flowers ..little gifts ...take you out on special dates. I have one guy recently gave me a choice of three places because he knows I love high teas...and they were all awesome...and very ...very.. different..can't wait ....I chose the Bentley.......it has a skyline or rooftop..or something... it looked fabulous.....no question who's footing the $$$
and then there's the guy who says ..well I come in town on these days
I have to do this/that..maybe we can get tothether then ..like I was an afterthought...He is an artist..brilliant..& gorgeous.. ..but....guess what?
Hasta la vista~baby I am not kidding ..he's history..........I'd rather be alone

I think it's rude for him to allow me to pay for anything. My company should be sufficient

ITA......bfs like that...get "fired" or put on probation
While ...I admire the level of communication which is important and letting the man know upfront...... ultimately ...I just don't know that it works for me to delineate all of this to a guy,however worthy my expectations. If he doesn't organically feel inspired by my essence,person beauty ..whatever ..to be motivated do something out of the ordinary....then it might be time to look into other options

If he's balking....now.....at the beginning.. ..that's more of a red flag..imho.....than is incentive to lay down ground rules.
Ntozake Shange once said that some men are not worth the amount of time it takes to forget a bad idea. He might be in that category.... but trying to change him? erplexed
Maybe your efforts might be better served by going out with other guys who recognize and treat you like the wonderful precious jewel that you are .... and isn't that more satisfying?

maybe revisit the temptation to compare the new fellas to one's ex....a slippery slope..if ex is remaining an ex

Keeep your standards HIGH....you deserve only the best :Rose:

 

[Ms Red]

You ladies are true gems who know your worth

Don't settle!

 

[Mena]

Great Thread!