Give in or separate?

[TheNewFine]

Ive been keeping an eye on this thread ValleyV, and it really is heartbreaking to hear of this situation. I know you would do anything to just get the right answer as to what to do, but just listen to your heart and what feels right. This isnt gonna be simple, but you can over come this.

Thank you so much for your kind words! - you ladies have no idea how much you all mean to me right now! For you to take the time to respond to my pain and confusion is all that's helping me keep my sanity right now. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

 

[mrsjohnson75]

I really hope things work out for you. this is so sad for everyone.

I don't really have much advice except that staying married and living in two separate households will not be good for your marraige IMO. Try to compromise somehow....I wish you the best..

 

[WomanlyCharm]

What you say is true about him feeling unloved. But is that my role? I have two teens I'm raising basically alone (DH is not hands on with them at all) and have been for 4 1/2 years. Is it fair that I should be responsible for raising him when his mother made this mess and then expects me to pick up the pieces?

O.k., that right there got my attention.
He basically isn't doing much for your kids...yet he wants you to accept this wild child, who is facinated with guns, has talked about killing his father and is just all around bad news into your home? No.

That's right, I said no.

This kid sounds dangerous and unstable, not to mention vindictive. If he doesn't get something from you, who's to say he won't try to get back at you...or your kids?

You need to make sure your children are safe and away from this crazy mess. I know your DH is trying to be a good father to his son, but if he doesn't understand your position...he's not much of a husband.

Have seperate places...but get that boy into counseling ASAP. If and when he shows some improvement, then he can move into your home, but
not before.

Heck if it were me, I'd send his butt to military school. Let's see him try to act a fool there. A stint in a facility with real rules and reprecussions for
bad behavior may end up saving his life.

 

[mrsjohnson75]

I missed some things....I say you should separate if you husband isn't involved with your kids anyway. I was thinking that you should keep the family together but now maybe you and your kids will be better off. I'm praying for you...this is vey difficult.

 

[TheNewFine]

O.k., that right there got my attention.
He basically isn't doing much for your kids...yet he wants you to accept this wild child, who is facinated with guns, has talked about killing his father and is just all around bad news into your home? No.

That's right, I said no.

This kid sounds dangerous and unstable, not to mention vindictive. If he doesn't get something from you, who's to say he won't try to get back at you...or your kids?

You need to make sure your children are safe and away from this crazy mess. I know your DH is trying to be a good father to his son, but if he doesn't understand your position...he's not much of a husband.

Have seperate places...but get that boy into counseling ASAP. If and when he shows some improvement, then he can move into your home, but
not before.

Heck if it were me, I'd send his butt to military school. Let's see him try to act a fool there. A stint in a facility with real rules and reprecussions for
bad behavior may end up saving his life.

Womanlycharm, you picked up on yet another key point. I do feel that if I can handle my business by myself and raise well-adjusted kids and not ask for help (I live 2000 miles away from my family and friends), the two of them should be able to work this out, minimal help from me.

DH works a 24 hour shift every third day (firefighter) so that would mean I'd be completely responsible for SS during that time. His mom's reaction is "So what, all she has to do is make dinner". Excuse me, but she's not even willing to do that. I am a nurturer, always have been and always will be but you have to get some small glimmer of appreciate it go on and I'm not even getting that.

 

[drasgrl]

Both DH and I have had concerns about this because he has a fascination with guns too. As far as I know, just BB guns but...

Good he'll do very well in boot camp . Or haw about Brat Camp?

 

[TheNewFine]

Good he'll do very well in boot camp . Or haw about Brat Camp?

Thank you - I needed a laugh right about now!

 

[Bublin]

^^^^ Lanna, if you have something personal to say and you fear other people's reaction, i advise you to PM rather than post in a thread. x

 

[gemstar]

Your SS’s fascination with guns and potential for violence puts a different spin on things. I still don’t believe in separation but you can’t allow him to move in at this time if you have serious concerns that he may hurt you or your kids. What if DH told SS that he would consider having him move in by the 2009 school year (Aug 2009) IF AND ONLY IF his behavior/school work significantly improves over the next year. And then use that time to get some family counseling. SS would also benefit from more structure so I would have DH check with the school for some suggestions. Maybe there is something that he can get involved with like sports, Junior ROTC or the Boys and Girls club, etc. DH needs to understand that although he owes a duty to his son, he also said vows to you and any decisions made involving your household should be a joint one. He should not have been making plans/promises to SS without your knowledge and agreement. It is not going to be a quick overnight fix but if the communication and commitment are there, you and DH can get through this.

 

[TheNewFine]

Your SS’s fascination with guns and potential for violence puts a different spin on things. I still don’t believe in separation but you can’t allow him to move in at this time if you have serious concerns that he may hurt you or your kids. What if DH told SS that he would consider having him move in by the 2009 school year (Aug 2009) IF AND ONLY IF his behavior/school work significantly improves over the next year. And then use that time to get some family counseling. SS would also benefit from more structure so I would have DH check with the school for some suggestions. Maybe there is something that he can get involved with like sports, Junior ROTC or the Boys and Girls club, etc. DH needs to understand that although he owes a duty to his son, he also said vows to you and any decisions made involving your household should be a joint one. He should not have been making plans/promises to SS without your knowledge and agreement. It is not going to be a quick overnight fix but if the communication and commitment are there, you and DH can get through this.

These are the two critical concepts. Part of my anguish is the feeling that this decision was made without my input and then DH acted shock that I wouldn't go along with the program. I never gave the impression that this would be OK nor did he for that matter. But here we are!

 

[carcajada]

These are the two critical concepts. Part of my anguish is the feeling that this decision was made without my input and then DH acted shock that I wouldn't go along with the program. I never gave the impression that this would be OK nor did he for that matter. But here we are!

I am so sorry! I will pray for you.

 

[TheNewFine]

I am so sorry! I will pray for you.

Thank you, ClassyD! We need prayer and receive it!

OT: Your siggy is scaring me...particularly considering the topic!

 

[DragonPearl]

we both agreed that we would stay married, just live in two separate households.

I don't like this idea.

I understand your unwillingness to have this wild child living with you. If he is as bad as you described, I would be reluctant too.

If you decide to go with the separate households plan, I'd suggest you make sure you two agree on a time limit for it, otherwise you might find yourself a couple of years down the line wondering when you're going to have your husband back.

If you agree to have Dennis the Menace living with you, I suggest you sit down with DH and agree together on the rules of the house, and after that, DH can sits down with Dennis the Menace and explain to him what the rules are, and that certain behaviors will be ground for termination of his participation in the household. If the kid wants to live with his dad, he is going to have to follow certain rules. Period. Of course, you will allow for normal kid misbehavior, but the extreme acting out needs to be clipped.

Oh, and the 3rd day that DH is not available 24 hr due to work, he can hire someone to watch his son so you don't have to. He was going to hire someone anyway for the separate household thing. Yes, let someone else watch him, don't take on this burden. If over time Dennis stops being the Menace, you can start thinking about taking more of a parenting role.

Good luck Valley, I wish you and your family the best.

 

[Laginappe]

People call into Dr. Laura with similar situations with a frightening frequency. And she reminds them of the higher rates of divorce in second marriage situations.

I agree with WomanlyCharm.

You and your H have a HUGE problem in the form of your combined parenting of his son.

I wouldn't have this child in my house with my other children because of the possiblity of harm he may cause. He's a loose cannon and these days any adult would be a FOOL to ignore verbal threats made by a teenager.

Anyone besides me catch this week's news story of the parents accepting the surprise delivery of bomb materials ordered by their son???

Your H's ex-wife is irrelevant in this situation. If she dropped dead today, you'd still have the same problem on your hands. Stop making her, her emotions and her reactions relevent in your life.

Your H needs to grab a lawyer and investigate issues of parental alienation. It has become a significant and arguable defence in custody battles.

This boy is very troubled because every adult in his life has failed him. He's reacting accordingly.

I'd like to know how your H plans to care for him with regards to his work schedule if you two seperate. Who is going to watch out for this child when he's gone on those 24 hr shift rotations?

The lesser part of me suspects that your H is using the threat of seperation to force you to get in line and take care of his child. Kinda like he expected his ex to care for him while he went off and created a new life with you and your children.

I'm getting more and more pissed off as I type. Because its not fair.

He created this child with this woman. And when he saw what was going on - the emotional abuse his ex was inflicting - what did he do? He let it continue.

And I hear you that she put him through the legal wringer. But these days, fathers have rights too. You don't just bow down to a bully ESPECIALLY WHEN A CHILD IS AT RISK.

And you don't turn around and try to convince your current wife to pick up the parental slack that you and your previous wife have failed to.

Your husband is ok with running into a burning building to save a stranger, but won't stand up to a crazy person who is threatening his own son?

What the hell????

Given the picture you've painted, I'd be out. I am the biggest proponent of trying to work on marriages at nearly all costs, but in your case YOUR children have to take priority here. At worst they wouldn't be safe with him in the house. At best, they wouldn't have a peaceful home to live in.

Taking the relationship out of the equation, would you invite another young man into your home who's demonstrated the same levels of emotional damage? Threats and etc??

This boy needs his father to step up and help him to realize that not every adult in his life is out to damage him. From his POV Dad's been off living a wonderful life with his new wife, with HER kids, in this great home, in this nicer school district etc etc...

...and he's left over here dealing with the crazy woman who's greatest joy is to constantly rail at him about his monster of a father and his demonic wife. So is it any stretch to think that a young person would hear that over and over and over and OVER and not start to act like a monster too?

If you lived with that every day, you'd act out too.

He probably does need military school. At least there, he'd have consistent attention, structure, and support from adults.

O.k., that right there got my attention.
He basically isn't doing much for your kids...yet he wants you to accept this wild child, who is facinated with guns, has talked about killing his father and is just all around bad news into your home? No.

That's right, I said no.

This kid sounds dangerous and unstable, not to mention vindictive. If he doesn't get something from you, who's to say he won't try to get back at you...or your kids?

You need to make sure your children are safe and away from this crazy mess. I know your DH is trying to be a good father to his son, but if he doesn't understand your position...he's not much of a husband.

Have seperate places...but get that boy into counseling ASAP. If and when he shows some improvement, then he can move into your home, but
not before.

Heck if it were me, I'd send his butt to military school. Let's see him try to act a fool there. A stint in a facility with real rules and reprecussions for
bad behavior may end up saving his life.

 

[coconow2007]

Seems like you really love your DH and based on that I think seperation is extreme. If SS moves in make it clear to his mom what the deal is - also make sure your DH changes his legal obligation with the courts. He should have full custody and ex should have some sort of visitation and if the court rules and she is able she should pay some form of child support
Make sure SS has a mobile phone so mom can call whenever she likes without ringing your home/mobile #'s anytime she feels the urge to be disruptive

 

[Jessica Rabbit]

Would you seriously consider one of those Brat Camp programs Drasgrl posted? Why isn't your hubby more involved with your kids? Not that he can or should try to replace their father. Do you think it has something to do with his tense relationship with his own kids/ex-wife?

 

[Seeking8Rights]

Both DH and I have had concerns about this because he has a fascination with guns too. As far as I know, just BB guns but...

I would say stay married, don't seperate and send the boy to boarding school or military school.

My old marriage counselor used to tell DH and I that when facing problems, approach and deal with the problem side by side and not across from each other.

The problem is the son, try to keep that seperate from your marriage and deal with the problem accordingly (together, not seperate).

Kids these days are from a different breed. We had (emphasis had) a family friend who was the the same type of situation and it turned tragic. So if you feel that the son will be violent and you don't feel safe sleeping at night with him in the house, please send him away to a discipline school or something where his issues can be addressed professionally. Please.

 

[TheNewFine]

I don't like this idea.

I understand your unwillingness to have this wild child living with you. If he is as bad as you described, I would be reluctant too.

If you decide to go with the separate households plan, I'd suggest you make sure you two agree on a time limit for it, otherwise you might find yourself a couple of years down the line wondering when you're going to have your husband back.

If you agree to have Dennis the Menace living with you, I suggest you sit down with DH and agree together on the rules of the house, and after that, DH can sits down with Dennis the Menace and explain to him what the rules are, and that certain behaviors will be ground for termination of his participation in the household. If the kid wants to live with his dad, he is going to have to follow certain rules. Period. Of course, you will allow for normal kid misbehavior, but the extreme acting out needs to be clipped.

Oh, and the 3rd day that DH is not available 24 hr due to work, he can hire someone to watch his son so you don't have to. He was going to hire someone anyway for the separate household thing. Yes, let someone else watch him, don't take on this burden. If over time Dennis stops being the Menace, you can start thinking about taking more of a parenting role.

Good luck Valley, I wish you and your family the best.

Dennis the Menace is the perfect name for him!

But in all seriousness, you have given some great advice and I will take it to heart! Thank you so much for taking the time to respond in my time of need!

 

[TheNewFine]

People call into Dr. Laura with similar situations with a frightening frequency. And she reminds them of the higher rates of divorce in second marriage situations.

I agree with WomanlyCharm.

You and your H have a HUGE problem in the form of your combined parenting of his son.

I wouldn't have this child in my house with my other children because of the possibility of harm he may cause. He's a loose cannon and these days any adult would be a FOOL to ignore verbal threats made by a teenager.

Anyone besides me catch this week's news story of the parents accepting the surprise delivery of bomb materials ordered by their son???

Your H's ex-wife is irrelevant in this situation. If she dropped dead today, you'd still have the same problem on your hands. Stop making her, her emotions and her reactions relevant in your life.

Your H needs to grab a lawyer and investigate issues of parental alienation. It has become a significant and arguable defense in custody battles.

This boy is very troubled because every adult in his life has failed him. He's reacting accordingly.

I'd like to know how your H plans to care for him with regards to his work schedule if you two seperate. Who is going to watch out for this child when he's gone on those 24 hr shift rotations?

The lesser part of me suspects that your H is using the threat of seperation to force you to get in line and take care of his child. Kinda like he expected his ex to care for him while he went off and created a new life with you and your children.

I'm getting more and more pissed off as I type. Because its not fair.

He created this child with this woman. And when he saw what was going on - the emotional abuse his ex was inflicting - what did he do? He let it continue.

And I hear you that she put him through the legal wringer. But these days, fathers have rights too. You don't just bow down to a bully ESPECIALLY WHEN A CHILD IS AT RISK.

And you don't turn around and try to convince your current wife to pick up the parental slack that you and your previous wife have failed to.

Your husband is ok with running into a burning building to save a stranger, but won't stand up to a crazy person who is threatening his own son?

What the hell????

Given the picture you've painted, I'd be out. I am the biggest proponent of trying to work on marriages at nearly all costs, but in your case YOUR children have to take priority here. At worst they wouldn't be safe with him in the house. At best, they wouldn't have a peaceful home to live in.

Taking the relationship out of the equation, would you invite another young man into your home who's demonstrated the same levels of emotional damage? Threats and etc??

This boy needs his father to step up and help him to realize that not every adult in his life is out to damage him. From his POV Dad's been off living a wonderful life with his new wife, with HER kids, in this great home, in this nicer school district etc etc...

...and he's left over here dealing with the crazy woman who's greatest joy is to constantly rail at him about his monster of a father and his demonic wife. So is it any stretch to think that a young person would hear that over and over and over and OVER and not start to act like a monster too?

If you lived with that every day, you'd act out too.

He probably does need military school. At least there, he'd have consistent attention, structure, and support from adults.

Dang, Laginappe ***looking over shoulder while typing*** b/c surely you are in my house and head! You have dug deep into this and touched on a lot of salient issues besides the obvious.

The higher divorce rate among blended families is real...there are so many complications, with everyone jocking to have their needs met. So we tried to put safeguards in place and think things out before we took this step. But sometimes the best laid plans don't always work. We never thought SS would want to live with us, particularly b/c of his strongly expressed dislike of both of us. DH didn't even have visitation when we got married - he was still battling charges of being an unfit parent so why would we think that less than two years later, our home would be the ideal place for SS?

I agree that the adults in SS's life have failed him and I really tried to reach out to him. The irony of this is that I love kids, I've spent my whole life in service to them, mine and other peoples. So it distresses me that I am not able to do it in this situation.

I do see SS being used as a pawn between his parents and I've pointed that out to DH. He tells SS what he should be telling the ex and they keep him in the middle like a tennis ball and SS was always a willing participant. SD isn't. I guess he figured negative attention is better than none at all.

I don't excuse DH's role in this at all and I actually encouraged him to make a decision one way or the other about SS so the boy would not be in limbo. I didn't think it was fair for DH to keep leading him on but not really giving him a straight answer. That's cruel imo. But and this is a big but, I don't see it as my role to handle this and to take on the solo role of parenting him when he has two, though highly dysfunctional parents, available.

The ex is basically irrelevant and I have relegated her to that role. I mentioned things she has said and done in the past to give draw a picture of the petty lunatic she is. So you would have an inkling as to why I would not want to willingly open up the doors of communication with her.

I agree that DH should stand up for the sake of his son and that is why I'm willing to separate and not saying , "Well, if you leave, that's it". He needs to be there for him and I understand that but I have to do what I need to do as well. It's a stalemate.

I perfectly understand why SS would want to live here. I have grown mean tell me, I wish you had been my mom - your kids are so lucky! I'm here all the time, his mom works night (with 2 minor children - it makes no sense to me ) and sleeps all day so she is never really available to him. We are the intact family he is looking for and I understand that. I would be outraged that my father had gone on to a better life w/o me too. I got all of that. I just can't give it to him. I have battled to help my kids get over the grief of losing their father and tried hard to create a sense of normalcy in their lives. I was cautious and even reluctant about bring DH in b/c I didn't want to throw things off balance. Creating this balance and making sure they are ok takes a lot out of me and I don't feel as though I have any more left to deal with SS and his problems.

Military school might work but I can't see either of them paying for it. I know, it's sad.

 

[TheNewFine]

Would you seriously consider one of those Brat Camp programs Drasgrl posted? Why isn't your hubby more involved with your kids? Not that he can or should try to replace their father. Do you think it has something to do with his tense relationship with his own kids/ex-wife?

I don't know enough about the camp to say yea or nay but I would have to check it out thoroughly first. It would be his parents decision though and I don't think they would ante up for any school they would have to pay for.

DH did reach out to my kids but they are both very studious and keep to themselves and didn't really want a whole lot of interaction. Everyone is cordial but they would not be heartbroken if he left. They are all very polite but very little real bonding has gone on. It is not an unwillingness on anyone's parts - they were already teens when we met so that was the stance that seemed to work best. Half the time they are not trying to really be bothered with me - I have to draw them out. we are all pretty quiet and low-key people.

I don't think it has much to do with his other relationships so much. SD is a perfect student: 4.0, student council, bball team, never gives anyone a moment's worth of trouble. She is quiet also and keeps pretty much to herself like my kids, polite but not real chatty. So really only SS is the different one as far personality. But I know if channeled correctly, he would be a winner. He can be charming and very personable when he wants too.

 

[TheNewFine]

Valleyv,

I am a graduate student, and I am married to a graduate student. I usually do not give advice on any message board simply because I always felt that I was too young to advise someone on a subject like marriage (I have not been married long and never had a real job...but I graduate soon, so I pray that changes quickly).

My husband and I live apart because we each got scholarships to different universities for advance studies, and our parents really wanted us to get the best educations possible. Our parents felt it was better for us so that we wouldn't get distracted from our studies. But I think the arrangement made everything harder. We flew to see each other as often as we could and our little money allowed. But in hindsight, I think it was not a good idea because our bond with each other could be a lot stronger. I'm from a traditional American family where marriage comes first. He's from a Caribbean family where ALL family comes first...his mom, cousin, brothers, friends, everyone influences him, and I started to feel like the distance made it easier for this to happen. I wouldn't want that to happen to you.

Also, I really hate when husbands allow (THEIR) hard family situations to impact their realtionships with their wives or their wives' happiness. My husband does that, and I hate it. I feel that as his wife, he should work as much as he can to shield me from any harm that his family could throw (I would do this for him in a minute, and my brother has always done this for my sister-in-law who is also a graduate student...he'd always shielded my sister-in-law from my mom and my sisters who might say something negative about her sometimes).

I think that separating is good because you don't want to start something you really cannot live with and then try to change it later. Also, if you separate, it may help your husband to see how to fix things (I think husbands need to fix things--especially situations they bring... men are strong, and I think they can do it).

On the other hand, I do not like the distance that being apart can sometimes put between two people. I think it's easier to kiss and make up if you're in the same house--also, you do not want him to get used to not living with you in the same house.

Lanna, thank you so much for reaching out to me! I appreciate your input and advice so much. I know as a grad student you probably don't have lots of extra time.

I think everything becomes intensified and exaggerated when you are apart. My DH works 24 hour shifts and I don't like to really get into serious conversations with him because if we are cut short, everything hangs in the balance until that next phone call. It's a lot harder to read the other person too - sometimes you hear something in their voice but they won't say what it is. So it can be scary and frustrating!

I agree with your bolded statement because it would be more devastating to SS to bring him here and then have it not work out. Also I do have faith that DH can work this out. I have to at this point. He tried to get me to fix it for him, and was actually quite shocked, considering my personality, that I refuse to. So there you have it. Please pray for us and I will keep you posted.

 

[SilentRuby]

Bumping

I need help y'all. I'm not ready to lose my husband but I can't let this drama into our house! erplexed

Praying for your family and that GOD will have His will in this situation. I do know one thing, if you decide to stay, have a baseball bat/stun gun for Mr. Bada$$ just in case he wants to get crazy Ok, maybe not a bat but just be protected and have a game plan. If you do pursue the separation, I wish you the best and hope everything works out.

I am so sick of women having to sacrifice everything or fighting to keep everything in order for love or to just be happy Damn!!
(and I'm not saying it doesn't happen to men too but IME most women have to bend to keep peace at home )

 

[tarheelgurl]

Yes, let SS move in and see how it goes. I wouldn't separate just yet. AND don't forget, you are an adult and he is still a child living in your house so he has to abide by your rules.

 

[Princess4real]

Praying for your family and that GOD will have His will in this situation. I do know one thing, if you decide to stay, have a baseball bat/stun gun for Mr. Bada$$ just in case he wants to get crazy Ok, maybe not a bat but just be protected and have a game plan. If you do pursue the separation, I wish you the best and hope everything works out.

I am so sick of women having to sacrifice everything or fighting to keep everything in order for love or to just be happy Damn!!
(and I'm not saying it doesn't happen to men too but IME most women have to bend to keep peace at home )

You and me too! It's ridiculous and not only do the men expect you to stay and deal with ish, other women will tell you to hang in there. People treat you the way they treat you because you allow it! There happy with their spouse, but your miserable and their telling you to hang in there because they don't want to see another black couple divorce. I would really love to see how many people would stay in a jacked up situation that they've told someone to hang in there and hopefully the person who is supposed to love you, will come around. WTF erplexed

 

[Princess4real]

Do you believe your husband would stay if the situation was reversed?

 

[Laginappe]

But sometimes the best laid plans don't always work. We never thought SS would want to live with us, particularly b/c of his strongly expressed dislike of both of us. DH didn't even have visitation when we got married - he was still battling charges of being an unfit parent so why would we think that less than two years later, our home would be the ideal place for SS?

Because a caution flag should be thrown for any woman considering marriage to a man dealing with this situation. I'm not telling you becuase you're already 619.32 miles down the road... I'm telling the you that you were when you were about to marry into this.

A man who has not resolved the issues of parenting his child by another woman IS NOT MARRIAGE MATERIAL.

Before you married him you knew that he didn't have visitation... and was still battling charges...

And you STILL MARRIED HIM. That speaks volumes towards your views about him and his relationship with his children.

If your husband had acted as a FATHER FIRST, he would have stepped back and dealt with his situation with his son before taking on you and your children.

And you should have known better than to bring ALL of this drama into your life, let alone the lives of your children. They've already been through a crisis that brings adults to their knees... and THEN you decide to make them deal with an emotionally detached step-father and a psychotic step-brother.

And your mothering technique is better than hers????

So it distresses me that I am not able to do it in this situation.

You can't fix every child in the world. Especially when the parents in the situation refuse to. And extra-especially when you have minor children of your own in the equation.

I do see SS being used as a pawn between his parents and I've pointed that out to DH. He tells SS what he should be telling the ex and they keep him in the middle like a tennis ball and SS was always a willing participant. SD isn't. I guess he figured negative attention is better than none at all.

Willing participant? Are you serious? A minor child is a "willing participant" in the failures of his parents?

V... you are testing my sympathy here. To be a willing participant, you have to have choice.

You had the choice to look at the situation of your guy's life and decide to take it on.
His mother had the choice to use her child as a weapon to hurt his father.
His father had a choice to decide to PARENT HIS CHILDREN over dumping them on the crazy woman he decided to create them with in favor of the new woman with the better lifestyle.

And this boy has enjoyed choice exactly where????

He didn't decide anything in this equation. Didn't decide to have a dad who'd rather go create a life over there with you and your kids. Didn't decide to have his mother take her issues out on him. Didn't decide to swallow pain in order placate the adults like his sister may be doing.

Yes negative attention is better than no attention. Most children play that card. It tends to be their only resource when the adults in their lives are making selfish decisions.

I don't excuse DH's role in this at all and I actually encouraged him to make a decision one way or the other about SS so the boy would not be in limbo. I didn't think it was fair for DH to keep leading him on but not really giving him a straight answer. That's cruel imo. But and this is a big but, I don't see it as my role to handle this and to take on the solo role of parenting him when he has two, though highly dysfunctional parents, available.

You didn't think it was fair?? Would you let someone treat YOUR children this way?

And BULLSHYT that you aren't excusing "DH's" role in this. You MARRIED HIM knowing his ideas about how to parent....

From your statements alone:
- He is ok with letting someone abuse his child.
- He is not willing to embrace your children in an active parenting role.
- He expects other folks - first his ex-wife and then YOU - to "deal with" the mess he helped create because he prefers to go off and be a hero to strangers.
- So...Strangers are more important than family.

And you looked at him and this situation and decided he was A-#1 Marriage Material. That your children would benefit from his being a part of their lives??

What are you teaching your children about marriage and the decisions that have to be made before speaking vows?

The ex is basically irrelevant and I have relegated her to that role. I mentioned things she has said and done in the past to give draw a picture of the petty lunatic she is. So you would have an inkling as to why I would not want to willingly open up the doors of communication with her.

Well here's the thing. She's his mother. Part of his behavior is based on the fact that when he causes you drama and stress... his relationship with his mother runs smoother.

I agree that DH should stand up for the sake of his son and that is why I'm willing to separate and not saying , "Well, if you leave, that's it". He needs to be there for him and I understand that but I have to do what I need to do as well. It's a stalemate.

If you agree then act on it. Is your marriage worth more than the well being of this child?

He needs more than you are capable of providing at this point. Your children don't deserve to have to deal with the decisions of the adults who refuse to handle this boy in a healthy manner.

I perfectly understand why SS would want to live here. I have grown mean tell me, I wish you had been my mom - your kids are so lucky! I'm here all the time, his mom works night (with 2 minor children - it makes no sense to me ) and sleeps all day so she is never really available to him. We are the intact family he is looking for and I understand that. I would be outraged that my father had gone on to a better life w/o me too. I got all of that. I just can't give it to him.

On one hand, its your responsibility to give it to him because you took him on when you took on his father.

On the other hand, it isn't your resposibility to do more than his own parents are willing to.

But I BEG YOU TO STOP STOP STOP!!! listing his mother's failures in comparison to your own supposed accomplishments.

SO WHAT that you have grown men wishing you were their mom?

SO WHAT that your schedule allows you more time with your kids than she enjoys with hers?

Your arrogance is insulting. And telling.

You could poof into the modern version of June Cleaver and you still couldn't compensate for the issues in his relationship with his mother AND FATHER.

The same critiques and faults you lay in his mother's lap can be directed at your husband. He is their father. Why isn't he there when their mom has to work extra hours at the expense of time with THEIR children?

Why doesn't he fight to be with his kids as much as he'd fight to save a stranger?

I have battled to help my kids get over the grief of losing their father and tried hard to create a sense of normalcy in their lives.

What's normal? Your kids have lost their father. So have his. The basic differece is that his children's father is still alive but has decided not to be a part of their lives. There's trauma and then there's TRAUMA.

I was cautious and even reluctant about bring DH in b/c I didn't want to throw things off balance. Creating this balance and making sure they are ok takes a lot out of me and I don't feel as though I have any more left to deal with SS and his problems.

I don't think this is your burden to carry at all. You shouldn't have taken this on and placed this on your children's shoulders.

But that was your choice.

Your H shouldn't have shrugged off his responsibility towards his children, shrugged and "hoped" it would get better. He knew what he was bringing into your life and you knew what you were taking on.

And that was his choice.

Military school might work but I can't see either of them paying for it. I know, it's sad.

It's more tragic actually. And if they can't afford or are unwillingy to pay for someone to do what they refuse to - then I agree that its not on you to pick up the slack.

In terms of who's responsible for what... your children take priorty in your life just as his are supposed to take priority in his.

 

[Laginappe]

I don't think it has much to do with his other relationships so much. SD is a perfect student: 4.0, student council, bball team, never gives anyone a moment's worth of trouble. She is quiet also and keeps pretty much to herself like my kids, polite but not real chatty. So really only SS is the different one as far personality. But I know if channeled correctly, he would be a winner. He can be charming and very personable when he wants too.

Check with an experienced child psychologist. Your H's children are textbook.

One child looks at the other's behavior and compensates for the turmoil by molding themselves into the "perfect child". Perfect student, perfect child, completely agreeable and gets along with everybody.

Never rocks the boat.

Its not for nothing that we all know of families with one or two children excelling in life while their sibling is on the fast track towards prison.

And part of the reason is because she knows that there's no room for any drama she might cause becuse her sibling is sucking up all of the parental air with his turmoil.

Her perfection is her way of coping - AND trying for her share of the attention - just like his drama. Both situations have equal chances of boom factor.

 

[Princess4real]

Because a caution flag should be thrown for any woman considering marriage to a man dealing with this situation. I'm not telling you becuase you're already 619.32 miles down the road... I'm telling the you that you were when you were about to marry into this.

A man who has not resolved the issues of parenting his child by another woman IS NOT MARRIAGE MATERIAL.

Before you married him you knew that he didn't have visitation... and was still battling charges...

And you STILL MARRIED HIM. That speaks volumes towards your views about him and his relationship with his children.

If your husband had acted as a FATHER FIRST, he would have stepped back and dealt with his situation with his son before taking on you and your children.

And you should have known better than to bring ALL of this drama into your life, let alone the lives of your children. They've already been through a crisis that brings adults to their knees... and THEN you decide to make them deal with an emotionally detached step-father and a psychotic step-brother.

And your mothering technique is better than hers????



You can't fix every child in the world. Especially when the parents in the situation refuse to. And extra-especially when you have minor children of your own in the equation.



Willing participant? Are you serious? A minor child is a "willing participant" in the failures of his parents?

V... you are testing my sympathy here. To be a willing participant, you have to have choice.

You had the choice to look at the situation of your guy's life and decide to take it on.
His mother had the choice to use her child as a weapon to hurt his father.
His father had a choice to decide to PARENT HIS CHILDREN over dumping them on the crazy woman he decided to create them with in favor of the new woman with the better lifestyle.

And this boy has enjoyed choice exactly where????

He didn't decide anything in this equation. Didn't decide to have a dad who'd rather go create a life over there with you and your kids. Didn't decide to have his mother take her issues out on him. Didn't decide to swallow pain in order placate the adults like his sister may be doing.

Yes negative attention is better than no attention. Most children play that card. It tends to be their only resource when the adults in their lives are making selfish decisions.



You didn't think it was fair?? Would you let someone treat YOUR children this way?

And BULLSHYT that you aren't excusing "DH's" role in this. You MARRIED HIM knowing his ideas about how to parent....

From your statements alone:
- He is ok with letting someone abuse his child.
- He is not willing to embrace your children in an active parenting role.
- He expects other folks - first his ex-wife and then YOU - to "deal with" the mess he helped create because he prefers to go off and be a hero to strangers.
- So...Strangers are more important than family.

And you looked at him and this situation and decided he was A-#1 Marriage Material. That your children would benefit from his being a part of their lives??

What are you teaching your children about marriage and the decisions that have to be made before speaking vows?



Well here's the thing. She's his mother. Part of his behavior is based on the fact that when he causes you drama and stress... his relationship with his mother runs smoother.



If you agree then act on it. Is your marriage worth more than the well being of this child?

He needs more than you are capable of providing at this point. Your children don't deserve to have to deal with the decisions of the adults who refuse to handle this boy in a healthy manner.



On one hand, its your responsibility to give it to him because you took him on when you took on his father.

On the other hand, it isn't your resposibility to do more than his own parents are willing to.

But I BEG YOU TO STOP STOP STOP!!! listing his mother's failures in comparison to your own supposed accomplishments.

SO WHAT that you have grown men wishing you were their mom?

SO WHAT that your schedule allows you more time with your kids than she enjoys with hers?

Your arrogance is insulting. And telling.

You could poof into the modern version of June Cleaver and you still couldn't compensate for the issues in his relationship with his mother AND FATHER.

The same critiques and faults you lay in his mother's lap can be directed at your husband. He is their father. Why isn't he there when their mom has to work extra hours at the expense of time with THEIR children?

Why doesn't he fight to be with his kids as much as he'd fight to save a stranger?



What's normal? Your kids have lost their father. So have his. The basic differece is that his children's father is still alive but has decided not to be a part of their lives. There's trauma and then there's TRAUMA.



I don't think this is your burden to carry at all. You shouldn't have taken this on and placed this on your children's shoulders.

But that was your choice.

Your H shouldn't have shrugged off his responsibility towards his children, shrugged and "hoped" it would get better. He knew what he was bringing into your life and you knew what you were taking on.

And that was his choice.



It's more tragic actually. And if they can't afford or are unwillingy to pay for someone to do what they refuse to - then I agree that its not on you to pick up the slack.

In terms of who's responsible for what... your children take priorty in your life just as his are supposed to take priority in his.

I looooooooove your post!

 

[Keep1Belle]

I looooooooove your post!

Ditto

As a cvhild that went through a tumultuos (sp?) divorce with coniving, self-serving parents I can understand whyt this CHILD has "issues" Iamslo know while i may have lost my mind back in the day i turned out to be ok, with patience, direction and a bit of family thereapy.

You are a good mom to your kids and a christian. Why not be a blessing in theis childs life. Why not ask God for dirtection in this area and if he says to allow him in your home and heart than continue to ask God for dirtection and strength.

THis is a child, not a monster and he is still young enough to be helped.

Maybe consider boarding school for a year with counseling or even boarding camp for the summer and then work on integrating him into your household.

Do not be angry with the child the fault lies with his Mother AND Father (your husband). You can be a help here and because it is inconvenient and you feel used you turn your back.

Let yourself be "used" for the good of the child.

I really suggest that you pray for direction and even if uncompfortable that you act on it with strength from God. YOu could be a real blessing for this boy and help turn the situation around.

 

[tocktick]

I'm sorry, but none of us live in your house with all the madness that's going on. You still have your two kids to think about and I'm sure they didn't sign up to be brought into a crazy situation. People will always pressure you to stay in a bad relationship because they always want to see a happy ending. You know what you should do and only you know how much you can take! It's not about his Ex winning or losing, it's about the stress your under and the fact that your dealing with ish you don't have to deal with. Even though you asked for advice, only you know how much you can take. If you left and took your kids, who are we to say your wrong, but I'm sure some will. I will never understand why people who are not living in that person's shoes, always tell people to stay and work it out. Don't you all think she's talk to her husband 50-11 times and nothing has changed???

ITA - It's a very thin line between "you should stay and work it out" and then 6 months later "I wouldn't be taking that - how did you get in this mess?"

i agree with the two of you. valleyval, it seems to me that you realise that when there are too many red flags to ignore and you've tried to work through them and nothing changes, it's time to go. i obviously cannot tell you when this may be, if ever (hopefully, it will not come to that), but i think you'll eventually do what is best for you and your children. all the best to you.