Does Natural mean your more Black!!

[Country gal]

Ladies,

I went out yesterday with friends and we are all relaxed, confident, dressed up, were the type of girls that like to follow the fashion trends, nice make up and accessories. And we were enjoying ourselves.

Anyway there were two girls in the ladies, who were Natural, they looked nice, more covered up than us, wooden beads, no make up. Generally they looked a little more converative. But you could tell we were all the same age.

The looks these girls gave us, I couldnt believe it. You know what is like in the ladies with your girls, your chatting about the nite, looking in the mirror, re-applying lip gloss etc.

Anyway as we were walking out this girl said 'FAKE', at first I just thought she was refering to my hair. I have got that a lot that nite as I have just relaxed my hair anyway.(Take that as a compliment)
She continued to say 'FAKE' black peps. I decided to hoover around the door so I could hear the rest of your conversation with her friend.

She said' FAKE black girls, that I bet no nothing about there culture, with there FAKE straight hair, wanting to be WHITE'.

I wanted to punch her.

Just because I have chosen to wear my hair straight, fashionable clothes, enjoy wearing make up.

HAVE I SOLD OUT??????????????

You can only apply that attitude to those girls. Shame on them for judging you from only a few minutes snap shot of your life. I am natural because I choose to be. I don't that because someone is relaxed that they are trying to be white. I was surrounded by beautiful relaxed heads on Saturday who have great self worth.

 

[~*~ShopAholic~*~]

Girl, it won't never stop as long as their are ignorant pple in the world, unfortunately they exist. I'm not even gonna share what happened to me in the mall this weekend while I was w/my 3 children......... This world is just sad.

 

[lovelymissyoli]

I don't understand how they could convey such hypocrisy. Many people consider natural textured type 4 hair to be "unkept, uncivilized'-loooking. How would they like to be judged based on their hair? Maybe they reacted that way, and called you guys FAKE because they've been picked on before, and called NAPPY. And I'm sure they didn't like it.

Wow...what does pointing out someone's hair type have to do w/ anything? You're just playing into that same mentality that those girls had by pointing out something you say others (don't know if you share the same view as weel) view as "negative/ugly" about black hair. It wasn't necessary and offensive to someone like me who has "NAPPY" hair, which I'm not ashamed of!

 

[LuvLiLocks]

THAT *ISH* REALLY IRKS THE HE** OUTTA ME TOO
Just because I like straight hair, can't dance all that well, and LOVE James Blunt, doesn't make me any less BLACK than the next black person
I love to see natural hair, but on ME, I love relaxed STRAIGHT hair.

Ladies,

I went out yesterday with friends and we are all relaxed, confident, dressed up, were the type of girls that like to follow the fashion trends, nice make up and accessories. And we were enjoying ourselves.

Anyway there were two girls in the ladies, who were Natural, they looked nice, more covered up than us, wooden beads, no make up. Generally they looked a little more converative. But you could tell we were all the same age.

The looks these girls gave us, I couldnt believe it. You know what is like in the ladies with your girls, your chatting about the nite, looking in the mirror, re-applying lip gloss etc.

Anyway as we were walking out this girl said 'FAKE', at first I just thought she was refering to my hair. I have got that a lot that nite as I have just relaxed my hair anyway.(Take that as a compliment)
She continued to say 'FAKE' black peps. I decided to hoover around the door so I could hear the rest of your conversation with her friend.

She said' FAKE black girls, that I bet no nothing about there culture, with there FAKE straight hair, wanting to be WHITE'.

I wanted to punch her.

Just because I have chosen to wear my hair straight, fashionable clothes, enjoy wearing make up.

HAVE I SOLD OUT??????????????

 

[Poohbear]

Wow...what does pointing out someone's hair type have to do w/ anything? You're just playing into that same mentality that those girls had by pointing out something you say others (don't know if you share the same view as weel) view as "negative/ugly" about black hair. It wasn't necessary and offensive to someone like me who has "NAPPY" hair, which I'm not ashamed of!

I know! I was a lil started by her comment too.

When it all comes down to it... everyone is born with natural hair... whether you are relaxed or natural. The relaxed ladies are just using a relaxer to permanently altering their hair texture and the natural ladies are just wearing out their hair texture free of chemicals.

Those girls being rude to kizzylonghair has nothing to do with them being natural. They have some internal/personal issues.

 

[Enchantmt]

Wow...what does pointing out someone's hair type have to do w/ anything? You're just playing into that same mentality that those girls had by pointing out something you say others (don't know if you share the same view as weel) view as "negative/ugly" about black hair. It wasn't necessary and offensive to someone like me who has "NAPPY" hair, which I'm not ashamed of!

I don't think she meant to come across as negative. The fact is there are SOME folx who think if you're not relaxed/have kinky hair that it isnt combed or taken care of. Several naturals on this board have mentioned comments others have made to them. Someone recently said in a post I read that a girl with pretty puffs got on the bus and some other girls made negative comments about it. She is simply pointing out the possiblity that if they have been on the receiving end of such treatment they may just be lashing out as well as sort of a type of defense.

 

[sylver2]

Nowhere in my reply did I say that relaxed heads=sellouts.
I am by no means a "militant nappy". But the truth is the truth. There are a lot of little girls & grown woman that hate their Blackness & will do anything in their power to play down their Blackness. Bleaching skin, dyed blond hair and blue contacts are all things that some of us do. But that is purely cosmetic, it won't truly change that fact that they are Black.
What about the fact that we don't know what conversation Kizzy & her friends were having in front of the militant nappies? They could have been justified in their comments.
The point is that there are many people who hate themselves, and some of them wear relaxers. It's undeniable.

What kind of conversation would that have to be for the other women to have been justified in their comments.
Kizzy-Oh I love my relaxed hair and I want to be white
Kizzy's friend- yeh girl hate to be nappy


C'mon now Their comments were spiteful and uncalled for. I have gotten comments like this many times or straight up murdering looks and never to me is it justified. They don't know me.

 

[beyondcute]

Or it could have been comments toward other women... Ive been in restaurants and head women talk abut the lady that just passed thier table... "OH MY GOSH what the HECK is going on with her hair?!! She NEEDS a relaxer ASAP!" Ad many a day Ive heard women be called "Nappy headed b!tch!" It can be just as subtle as blatant. Its out there Sylver, it really is.

STILL I dotn think its ncie to point the finger, thats just as bad to me. No one deserves to be talked about like that. Who are they to judge? They are sellouts for judging aperson based n a hair style, like they are blacker than thou.

 

[sylver2]

sigh...Yeh, its out there..but for both sides.
Naturals get it bad and relaxed heads get it just as bad. Now that we know both sides get it, chalk it up to thats life even though its dumb and lets move on.

To all my Natural Ladies
To all my Relaxed and Texturized ladies

 

[Qurlyqt]

Whew! Too much division! I am natural and it doesn't make me more black than I was when I wore my hair relaxed. I believe that every person should wear their hair however THEY want and not how society (or anyone else) thinks they should.

It sickens me to see relaxed and naturals bickering. If a person chooses to wear their hair straight, curly, pressed, nappy, loc'd, bald, short, long, whatever - its their prerogative... and their head!

 

[MissYocairis]

Nowhere in my reply did I say that relaxed heads=sellouts. I am by no means a "militant nappy". But the truth is the truth. There are a lot of little girls & grown woman that hate their Blackness & will do anything in their power to play down their Blackness. Bleaching skin, dyed blond hair and blue contacts are all things that some of us do. But that is purely cosmetic, it won't truly change that fact that they are Black.
What about the fact that we don't know what conversation Kizzy & her friends were having in front of the militant nappies? They could have been justified in their comments.
The point is that there are many people who hate themselves, and some of them wear relaxers. It's undeniable.

Nah, you didn't say "relaxed heads=sellouts". I said, "relaxed heads does not necessarily equal sellouts" and I posed it to your comment about "SOME" relaxed heads being sellouts. You did say that right? Right.

Secondly, there are many people who hate themselves who wear relaxers and I do think it's fair to point out, as EVIDENCED by DSD's experience, many comments on this thread, and the experiences many have had in real life, that there are ALSO many people who hate themselves who wear NATURALS as well. If they didn't, we wouldn't even be having this conversation and this thread would be non-existent. When I see a healthy head of natural hair, I think it's beautiful. When I see a relaxed head of healthy hair, I think that's beatiful as well. That's really where it needs to STOP.

 

[MissYocairis]

What kind of conversation would that have to be for the other women to have been justified in their comments.
Kizzy-Oh I love my relaxed hair and I want to be white
Kizzy's friend- yeh girl hate to be nappy


C'mon now Their comments were spiteful and uncalled for. I have gotten comments like this many times or straight up murdering looks and never to me is it justified. They don't know me.

THANK YOU! There was no justification for them to make those comments. And, it exposes them for the unevolved, self-hating folks that they really and truly are. Wearing a natural doesn't automatically mean you have sense in your head.

When you have self-love, the last thing you feel compelled to do is call someone out for their choice to style their hair differently. ESPECIALLY if you feel that you are more enlightened than them and you believe they could benefit from learning some things from you. You DO NOT approach them with name calling and condemnation. That kind of attitude could set back the whole natural movement.

 

[locabouthair]

it really kills me that people forget that black women are NOT the only race who decides to straighten their hair. Why do we always focus on black women who straighten their hair but no one says anything when other races choose to wear their hair straight. There was this Puerto Rican girl at my school and she always wore her her straight. you would hardly ever see her with curly hair my friend who is Indian, her hair was naturally curly and she wore it straight most of the time. Sometimes its just a matter of preference. White women with curly hair have the straight look soemtimes too. Sometimes I like my hair pressed and sometimes I like the cornrows.

People also can't make assumptions about women with natural hair. My last perm was 4 years ago and within those years I have never tried to know more about Black Culture of whatever. I didn't transition because I wanted to be more black, I went natural because the perm damaged my hair.

 

[beyondcute]

it really kills me that people forget that black women are NOT the only race who decides to straighten their hair. Why do we always focus on black women who straighten their hair but no one says anything when other races choose to wear their hair straight. There was this Puerto Rican girl at my school and she always wore her her straight. you would hardly ever see her with curly hair my friend who is Indian, her hair was naturally curly and she wore it straight most of the time. Sometimes its just a matter of preference. White women with curly hair have the straight look soemtimes too. Sometimes I like my hair pressed and sometimes I like the cornrows.

People also can't make assumptions about women with natural hair. My last perm was 4 years ago and within those years I have never tried to know more about Black Culture of whatever. I didn't transition because I wanted to be more black, I went natural because the perm damaged my hair.

I think alot of people are very sore about the history of the products. They were cerated as an attempt to assimilate. Its still a sore spot for alot of people. Some Jewish people will not buy Fords (my friend is one of them) because Henry Ford was a Nazi sympathizer (he was also racist). Sometimes the wound is a little deeper than others feel it is.

 

[carmella25]

She just a HATER. Because she didnt look as good a you guys did!

 

[~Nigeria~]

This kind of stuff really angers me. A black woman with natural hair, wearing a darn dashiki isn’t anymore black than a black woman with relaxed, straight hair who likes to wear fashionable clothing. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to embrace your African-American culture, so long as you don’t put others down for being who they are. Ignorant african-americans with that “sell-out” mentality need to check themselves because all they’re doing hating themselves.

 

[asha]

The only thing that makes you more black is the sun....lol..just kidding.

 

[asha]

Can someone explain to me what sell out mentality is? I don't get what you all are reffering to when you say that. Sometimes I think people make stuff bigger than stuff is.

 

[beyondcute]

Wel truth of the matter is, everyone values differnt stuff. Some people would call us nuts for spending so much time on hair. Soem people value the history while others value the future.
The dictionary says....

Selling out is a common slang phrase. Broadly speaking, it refers to the compromising of one's integrity in exchange for money or other personal gain. It is commonly associated with attempts to increase mass appeal or acceptability to mainstream society. A person who does this is labelled a sellout.

Many people see nothing wrong with tailoring a product to the tastes of its audience, or with taking practical and financial considerations into account when making art. And, in regard to theater shows, musicals, etc, a "sell out" show is simply a show so popular that all tickets are sold out, and is generally considered as a milestone in terms of success. Selling out may be then gaining success at the cost of credibility. Though generally associated with the entertainment industry, regular individuals who similarly compromise their ideals (e.g. a Bohemian individual who suddenly switches to a socially conservative lifestyle) could also be considered sellouts

I interpret selling out to be of the same nature. Doing something to adhere to mainstream and not just because you want to.

 

[Poohbear]

The only thing that makes you more black is the sun....lol..just kidding.

 

[Nanyanika]

ITA WITH ASHA LOL, ITS NICE TO SEE THE FUNNY SIDE OF THINGS TOO.

 

[An_Original_Copy]

Wow...what does pointing out someone's hair type have to do w/ anything? You're just playing into that same mentality that those girls had by pointing out something you say others (don't know if you share the same view as weel) view as "negative/ugly" about black hair. It wasn't necessary and offensive to someone like me who has "NAPPY" hair, which I'm not ashamed of!

FIRST OF ALL, I have type 4 hair myself, so why would I try to put it down? Stop being so damn hyper-sensitive. I was merely pointing out the fact that they wouldn't want someone else judging them based on their hair type, or how they wear it, so how dare they judge someone else on their hair.

 

[An_Original_Copy]

I don't think she meant to come across as negative. The fact is there are SOME folx who think if you're not relaxed/have kinky hair that it isnt combed or taken care of. Several naturals on this board have mentioned comments others have made to them. Someone recently said in a post I read that a girl with pretty puffs got on the bus and some other girls made negative comments about it. She is simply pointing out the possiblity that if they have been on the receiving end of such treatment they may just be lashing out as well as sort of a type of defense.

THANK YOU! You actually understood the point I was making.

 

[beyondcute]

As we can all see this is a very sensitive subject to alot of people. One way or the other peopel shoudlnt be judged based on thier hair but by the content of thier character *had to throw in a little black history *

 

[mommatide]

YUP, BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD B4. I KNEW I COULD NOT HAVE BEEN THE ONLY ONE TO EXPERIENCE THIS. I THINK IT BOIL'S DOWN TO ONES INSECURITY AND FEELING'S OF JEALOUSY. I STARTED A THREAD ABOUT THIS LAST WEEK. IF YOU HAVE NOT ALREADY, CHECK IT OUT.............

 

[baglady215]

Im not being condescending but once again you failed to read the whole post. She did not link relaxed hair with selling out. She just said that SOME that are sellouts relax thier hair. She did not say all people did and you did not quote her but you quoted me. Just as some republicans voted for a democratic candidate. It doesnt mean that all the votes came from republicans.

If you ge nothign from this post but this next sentence Being a sellout does not come with the condition of relaxing ones hair. Trust me you can be a sellout in many more ways that just a hair style.

If you were responding to her post I would have expected you to qoute her but instead you qouted me. I dont think disagreeing is a crime but I never disagreed with you I only said you misquoted ME. If you re-READ the post youll see that I never agreed with relaxing equating selling out.

I think you are tryign to link things on your own because I certainly did not link them. And qouting me when you disagreed with it made me seem like I agreed with it. Just coming to a conclusion that I felt all relaxed people were sellouts makes me think you have a chip on your shoulder. No one said relaxed hair = sellout. *Other than the peopel the OP was talkign about* That was something you came up with all on your own.

Sorry you feel like Im being condescending; Im only pointing out what I see and trying to make sure you dont misqoute me.

Your disagreement was that:

Originally Posted by baglady215
See, this is where I disagree. How does a RELAXER (a hair product) hide the truth about yourself? Am I hating my natural self if I choose to wear makeup, or color my hair? Women relax their hair for many reasons, but I don't think self-hatred is one of them.

You qouted me in that post. All the while I never said having a relaxer hid the truth about anything. I never said relaxers hid anything. This is the mis-qoutation. This is wheer you linked things in your own mind wihtout actually reading.

What I said was trying to hide the real self is self hating. If you put your makeup on thinkign "Oh yeah let me hide my igly face and skin" then you hate that part of your body and are self hating but if you pu ti it on and think "Oh this looks nice on me." then there is no self hate but self love for wantign to enhance what is already beautiful. BTW SOME women do relax thier hair becasue of self hate.

~the end~

OK. I know what I read and I know how I took the tone of the posts (yours and MeccaMedinah's). But, I'm sorry you felt like you were misunderstood. And again, I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I find all hair types and styles beautiful. I plan on transitioning to natural one day myself.

~~~~~

Locabouthair, you made an excellent point:

it really kills me that people forget that black women are NOT the only race who decides to straighten their hair. Why do we always focus on black women who straighten their hair but no one says anything when other races choose to wear their hair straight.

Other races straighten their hair ALL THE TIME. Look at the flat iron reviews on Folica... Nothing but white folx with curly, frizzy hair who deisre something different. No one would accuse them of being less white and not knowing their culture.

What makes me angry about this is that this is black vs. black, and it does need to stop. We worry about hair when there are so many other issues facing our communities and our future as a race.

 

[asha]

Other races straighten their hair ALL THE TIME. Look at the flat iron reviews on Folica... Nothing but white folx with curly, frizzy hair who deisre something different. No one would accuse them of being less white and not knowing their culture.

What makes me angry about this is that this is black vs. black, and it does need to stop. We worry about hair when there are so many other issues facing our communities and our future as a race.

This is what gets me. I was just on the lush forum and you have every white girl and their dang dog using hennas to dye their hair and get it shiny..you have people reviewing all different types of hair treatments, moisturisers and the like...the curly girls are finding it harder to find products that don't dry out their hair...as per usual..white or black...Why is it we have to be putting up dukes?

 

[beyondcute]

I think alot of people are very sore about the history of the products. They were cerated as an attempt to assimilate. Its still a sore spot for alot of people. Some Jewish people will not buy Fords (my friend is one of them) because Henry Ford was a Nazi sympathizer (he was also racist). Sometimes the wound is a little deeper than others feel it is

Well once again (I guess you didnt read THAT post either...) I tried to explain why some black people think relaxers=sellouts. Relaxers, axel grease, Konkolene, etc were all created or used in attempt to look like a white person. As a minority you are less threatening if you conform. No other group went through slavery to the extent that we did and combined with the history of the products SOME peopel (not me) think it maes you a sellout. (I think you can do whatevre pleases you except misqoute me )

Well truth of the matter is, everyone values differnt stuff. Some people would call us nuts for spending so much time on hair. Soem people value the history while others value the future.
The dictionary says....

Selling out is a common slang phrase. Broadly speaking, it refers to the compromising of one's integrity in exchange for money or other personal gain. It is commonly associated with attempts to increase mass appeal or acceptability to mainstream society. A person who does this is labelled a sellout.

Many people see nothing wrong with tailoring a product to the tastes of its audience, or with taking practical and financial considerations into account when making art. And, in regard to theater shows, musicals, etc, a "sell out" show is simply a show so popular that all tickets are sold out, and is generally considered as a milestone in terms of success. Selling out may be then gaining success at the cost of credibility. Though generally associated with the entertainment industry, regular individuals who similarly compromise their ideals (e.g. a Bohemian individual who suddenly switches to a socially conservative lifestyle) could also be considered sellouts

I interpret selling out to be of the same nature. Doing something to adhere to mainstream and not just because you want to.

BTW I wasnt aware that an internet post written in pure english could have a tone... There was no cursing or pointing of hte fingers but once again I believe some peopeles feelings have been hurt and jumped to the conclusion that we were calling relaxer wearers sellouts (even though THAT was never written in our posts) The interpretation of our posts has been wrongly recieved. I believe you wont find anythign positive in our posts and you will continue to overlook what was really said versus what you percieve an imaginary tone to be... so you can skip them if it pleases you.

As we can all see this is a very sensitive subject to alot of people. One way or the other peopel shoudlnt be judged based on thier hair but by the content of thier character *had to throw in a little black history *

To all the others if you would liek a list of resources that will give you the history of relaxers and texturizers and afros and cornrows and good/bad hair, etc Ill be glad to give up the titles of a few interesting books, articles, and journals. For real its more than just hair its history but if you wann relax because you liek straight hair then go ahead! I dont care. Peopel asked a question and since I knew the answer (from SOME natural peoples standpoint) I decided to share but alot of yall keep asking the same question without reading..... Not a very good habit at all, right up there with misqouting people and deciphering internet tone

 

[beyondcute]

OK. I know what I read and I know how I took the tone of the posts ?????(yours and MeccaMedinah's). But, I'm sorry you felt like you were misunderstood not misunderstood but misqouted and taken out of context, my english is plain and simple and very easily understood...., Im sure if someone went around twisting your words youd feel misunderstood as well or do you expect peopel to ignore your words and decipher your tone? . And again, I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I find all hair types and styles beautiful. I plan on transitioning to natural one day myself. I never said different hair types were ugly either... was that a part fof my tone you deciphered?

~~~~~

Locabouthair, you made an excellent point:


Other races straighten their hair ALL THE TIME. Look at the flat iron reviews on Folica... Nothing but white folx with curly, frizzy hair who deisre something different. No one would accuse them of being less white and not knowing their culture.

What makes me angry about this is that this is black vs. black, and it does need to stop. We worry about hair and what is the name of this forum? Oh yeah long HAIR care forum... I can see what you mean by we care too much about hair, and they even had the audacity to include the word HAIR in the title of the site!! *gasp* when there are so many other issues facing our communities and our future as a race.

I agree