Does Natural mean your more Black!!

[beyondcute]

See, this is where I disagree. How does a RELAXER (a hair product) hide the truth about yourself? Am I hating my natural self if I choose to wear makeup, or color my hair? Women relax their hair for many reasons, but I don't think self-hatred is one of them.

Yes you quoted me but I never said relaxing your hair was selling out. Please go read it again and lets trynot to put words in other people mouths.

SOME people that relax are self hating. SOME people that are natural are self hating. I never pointed out 1 particular group..... Does soemone have a chip on thier shoulder?

To answer the question, "Does natural mean you're more Black?" I say no. But, yes there are a lot of sell out chicks wearing relaxers.

And back to this post she didnt say all women who relax were sell outs. Lets actually READ the posts and stop rreading what isnt there. Just because you do something with your hair (regardless of what it is) doesnt automatically make you a sell out. Selling out is way more than a hairstyle and for those girls to judge her soley based on her hairstyle was beyond ignorant.

 

[amy1234]

some folks have issues, and it's usually their problem. I wouldn't let it get to you....next!!

 

[mscounselor]

Ok...I actually stopped talking to someone who was CONSTANTLY on me about my hair when I was relaxing. I was trying to be white or European or I was selling out. She was talking about knowing my history and how Im ignoring it. I was like well MY immediate history is about some Maroons in Jamaica and the like. I also knew black American history as well but she couldn't fathom that I did.
People like that just need to say that to justify something they are going through. If they equated shaving her hair off to be more black than thats her ignorance. Dont let that be a reflection on you. Ignorance like the common cold can either be spread or prevented. Im glad you didn't let that one catch you.

 

[baglady215]

Yes you quoted me but I never said relaxing your hair was selling out. Please go read it again and lets trynot to put words in other people mouths.

SOME people that relax are self hating. SOME people that are natural are self hating. I never pointed out 1 particular group..... Does soemone have a chip on thier shoulder?

And back to this post she didnt say all women who relax were sell outs. Lets actually READ the posts and stop rreading what isnt there. Just because you do something with your hair (regardless of what it is) doesnt automatically make you a sell out. Selling out is way more than a hairstyle and for those girls to judge her soley based on her hairstyle was beyond ignorant.

I did not put words in anyone's mouth. I did not say that you said wearing relaxers was considered selling out. In your original post, you agreed with the previous poster who linked relaxed hair with selling out. That opened the door for discussion.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I simply disagreed with your post. Not a crime. So let's not become condescending when someone disagrees with your line of thinking.

 

[Undefeated Queen]

I can't stand the hair critics on either side. The 'you need a perm' chicks or the 'you're not natural so you're a sellout' chicks. MIND YA BI'NESS!

Girl yes!!!! When I go to a certain club here in Chicago, some of the sistas and even the brothers will look upside my "relaxed" hair with a look on their faces.Yet those same sistas' fros or "natural curls" are dyed red or blonde. When I stretch my relaxers, one of my coworkers actually rubbed my hair and said it's time for a perm. You can't win. That's why I do what pleases me! How can those girls call you fake and clueless about your culture if you're not natural? Forget those haters!!!!

 

[beyondcute]

I did not put words in anyone's mouth. I did not say that you said wearing relaxers was considered selling out. In your original post, you agreed with the previous poster who linked relaxed hair with selling out. That opened the door for discussion.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I simply disagreed with your post. Not a crime. So let's not become condescending when someone disagrees with your line of thinking.

Im not being condescending but once again you failed to read the whole post. She did not link relaxed hair with selling out. She just said that SOME that are sellouts relax thier hair. She did not say all people did and you did not quote her but you quoted me. Just as some republicans voted for a democratic candidate. It doesnt mean that all the votes came from republicans.

If you ge nothign from this post but this next sentence Being a sellout does not come with the condition of relaxing ones hair. Trust me you can be a sellout in many more ways that just a hair style.

If you were responding to her post I would have expected you to qoute her but instead you qouted me. I dont think disagreeing is a crime but I never disagreed with you I only said you misquoted ME. If you re-READ the post youll see that I never agreed with relaxing equating selling out.

I think you are tryign to link things on your own because I certainly did not link them. And qouting me when you disagreed with it made me seem like I agreed with it. Just coming to a conclusion that I felt all relaxed people were sellouts makes me think you have a chip on your shoulder. No one said relaxed hair = sellout. *Other than the peopel the OP was talkign about* That was something you came up with all on your own.

Sorry you feel like Im being condescending; Im only pointing out what I see and trying to make sure you dont misqoute me.

Your disagreement was that:

Originally Posted by baglady215
See, this is where I disagree. How does a RELAXER (a hair product) hide the truth about yourself? Am I hating my natural self if I choose to wear makeup, or color my hair? Women relax their hair for many reasons, but I don't think self-hatred is one of them.

You qouted me in that post. All the while I never said having a relaxer hid the truth about anything. I never said relaxers hid anything. This is the mis-qoutation. This is wheer you linked things in your own mind wihtout actually reading.

What I said was trying to hide the real self is self hating. If you put your makeup on thinkign "Oh yeah let me hide my igly face and skin" then you hate that part of your body and are self hating but if you pu ti it on and think "Oh this looks nice on me." then there is no self hate but self love for wantign to enhance what is already beautiful. BTW SOME women do relax thier hair becasue of self hate.

~the end~

 

[Poohbear]

I agree with beyondcute 100%!!!

The term 'sell out' means to betray one's cause or associates

The term 'self-hate' means to have hate with, for, or toward oneself

The term 'hide' means to put out of sight or conceal

Anyone can do a number of these things whether it's with relaxers, hair color, makeup, clothing, etc etc etc.

And none of this stuff has anything to do with your 'blackness'. Nothing at all! It's all about what you as an individual choose to do with yourself... not collectively or as a group.

 

[tropicexotic]

I agree 100%

Selling out is HATING your natural self, selling out is hating who you REALLY are, selling out is attempting to hide the truth about yourself. I think we all could stand to read The miseduation of the Negro mind. Alot of us do things and we dont even know why we do them. Trust me 400 years of prgramming doesnt go away THAT quickly.

As to the ladies that called you fake, they are just as bad. They are fake for thinking they are any better than anyone else in this world. Whether we choose ot relax or shave it all off we are still sistahs. Being natural doesnt change your dna. Black is black whether its in the projects or the corporate firm. The sooner peopel realize that the better off everyone will be.

ITA. I think those girls were ignorant, and if they didn't have anything constructive to say they shouldn't have said anything to ya'll.

 

[sylver2]

Does anyone personally know someone that relaxed their hair becasue they wanted to sell out. Did they admit this to you?
I just want to know how do we know for sure that some people relax because they hate themselves and are selling out. Who admitted that? It would be interesting to get inside their minds

 

[beyondcute]

No, One girl in particular comes ot mind but I dont think her goal was to sell out but she just didnt like black people although she was one herself. She was in my high school * I hope she changed her ways* that used to talk about other people's n!gga napps and how they would never get anywhere in the corporate world because even with a relaxer thier napps would show. She wanted to have mixed children becasue they were 'prettier.' She hated the summer becasue she would tan too much. I could go on but he point is she was a sell out and she relaxed her hair because she thought natural hair was too n!ggerish and to be sophistcated required relaxed hair. SO once again not a sellout because she wanted to relax her hair but the reasoning behind it was enough to make me puke.

So no i dont think her goal was to be a sellout. She thought that was best for her. She thought that was ideal but to me it was pure self hatred.

 

[Poohbear]

Does anyone personally know someone that relaxed their hair becasue they wanted to sell out. Did they admit this to you?
I just want to know how do we know for sure that some people relax because they hate themselves and are selling out. Who admitted that? It would be interesting to get inside their minds

I remember Tyra Banks had a show about women who disquised their hair because they hated it. One white women would keep her hair in braids because she hated her hair. A black women would relax her hair and keep her hair in weaves because she hated her hair. She also said she married a guy of a different race so her children wouldn't have nappy hair. I've also heard of women who press their natural hair because they hate their hair texture.

Now keep in mind that this is not the case for everyone. Some relax, weave, and press their hair merely because they like the results. I also haven't seen hardly any relaxed ladies on this board who are relaxing/weaving because they personally hate their hair... who knows if there are some or not...

 

[Undefeated Queen]

I was on the bus a few weeks ago and a sista got on with a beautiful afro puff. A younger girl on the bus proceeded to laugh and said "that B**** needs a perm!" She wore a straight weave with light blonde streaks. I think it's sad that after all Blacks have been through, we let things like hair come between us. There's ignorance on the straight and natural sides.

 

[brooklyngal73]

So so true. When will all this "just because you relax, you wanna be white" thing stop?!

BTW--you look FIERCE in your siggy!

I agree 100%

Selling out is HATING your natural self, selling out is hating who you REALLY are, selling out is attempting to hide the truth about yourself. I think we all could stand to read The miseduation of the Negro mind. Alot of us do things and we dont even know why we do them. Trust me 400 years of prgramming doesnt go away THAT quickly.

As to the ladies that called you fake, they are just as bad. They are fake for thinking they are any better than anyone else in this world. Whether we choose ot relax or shave it all off we are still sistahs. Being natural doesnt change your dna. Black is black whether its in the projects or the corporate firm. The sooner peopel realize that the better off everyone will be.

 

[Divine Inspiration]

I can't stand the hair critics on either side. The 'you need a perm' chicks or the 'you're not natural so you're a sellout' chicks. MIND YA BI'NESS!

YES! Say it again! I'm so tired of militant naturals trying to belittle ladies who choose to relax their hair, AND I'm over the chicks who walk around inspecting everybody's head for coils and kinks and deciding who needs a relaxer.

Besides that, I think a large percentage of chicks who stretch are NOT hating their texture, otherwise they would relax every 6 weeks as prescribed. Having the patience to put up with the tangles, multiple textures, and stares from other people is an indication, IMO, that ladies who stretch are reasonably comfortable with their texture.

Either way, folks oughta keep their opinions to themselves b/c we're all entitled to do what we want with our strands.

 

[beyondcute]

So so true. When will all this "just because you relax, you wanna be white" thing stop?!

BTW--you look FIERCE in your siggy!

Thanks! And I hope it stops soon. Its 2006 and people are still just as ignorant as ever. When will the madness cease?!

 

[plove]

I can't stand the hair critics on either side. The 'you need a perm' chicks or the 'you're not natural so you're a sellout' chicks. MIND YA BI'NESS!

that is what i was going to say
there will always be people pushing
how they feel on you
you do what makes you happy
if you where to go natural tonight
are you not the same person
having a perm don't make you
less black

 

[Samaria]

If those chicks were as "hard-core black" as they wanted to seem, they would understand that no matter if you relaxed your hair once a week, dyed it blonde, bleached your skin lighter, at the end of the day when you walk out that door, you are still going to be considered black.... No matter how much someone per say tried to escape, no matter what that person did they will be considered black.. So if the know as much as they think they do, then they would know that too.


You think those females were crazy, girl try growing up in a house-hold like that, my mom told me she wasn't going to relax my hair as a young child b/c she couldn't take care of it and that is something I so totally agree with, but when I got older, I relaxed my own hair, and day in and day out all I would hear her and my dad saying is I'm trying to be white, I hate my sef, self hatred this self hatred that blah blah...


But anyways, keep doing you girl.. One quote I like is "if you don't have haters, you ain't doing something right."

 

[angelk316]

I am tired of people telling me my hair is too nappy and I need a relaxer. I am tired of people giving me disaproved looks because of my hair. They need to mind their busniess.
Why can't people accept others for who they want to be.

 

[kizzylonghair]

WOW!!!!!!

I didnt realise this would stir up a big discussion, and that others have experienced the same CRAP as me!! Whether your relaxed or natural.

I have read all your comments and you are right about not letting it get to me. I won't.​

 

[MissYocairis]

Ladies,

I went out yesterday with friends and we are all relaxed, confident, dressed up, were the type of girls that like to follow the fashion trends, nice make up and accessories. And we were enjoying ourselves.

Anyway there were two girls in the ladies, who were Natural, they looked nice, more covered up than us, wooden beads, no make up. Generally they looked a little more converative. But you could tell we were all the same age.

The looks these girls gave us, I couldnt believe it. You know what is like in the ladies with your girls, your chatting about the nite, looking in the mirror, re-applying lip gloss etc.

Anyway as we were walking out this girl said 'FAKE', at first I just thought she was refering to my hair. I have got that a lot that nite as I have just relaxed my hair anyway.(Take that as a compliment)
She continued to say 'FAKE' black peps. I decided to hoover around the door so I could hear the rest of your conversation with her friend.

She said' FAKE black girls, that I bet no nothing about there culture, with there FAKE straight hair, wanting to be WHITE'.

I wanted to punch her.

Just because I have chosen to wear my hair straight, fashionable clothes, enjoy wearing make up.

HAVE I SOLD OUT??????????????:whip:

Heck no! I'm mad at that whole scene you just described! The part that makes me the maddest is that they actually said, "I bet they know nothing about their culture.."

What'd you say to them Kizzy? We'd have gotten into a "discussion" over that one.

 

[MissYocairis]

To answer the question, "Does natural mean you're more Black?" I say no. But, yes there are a lot of sell out chicks wearing relaxers.

There are also a lot of "posing" chicks rocking naturals who don't read half the books on Black history/culture/socioeconomic and political issues that some relaxed sistas read in a year. A relaxed head does not = "sell out" and/or "lack of consciousness" just like a natural head does not = "enlightened" or well-versed in Black history/social/political issues.

AS JILL SCOTT SAID...."just because somebody's rocking a natural does not automatically mean that person is 'positive'".

 

[Psi77]

HAVE I SOLD OUT??????????????


No Kizzy you have not sold out!
Apart from this persons 'extra blackness' that they have miraculously gained with becoming natural; it seems they have become intensly insecure and intolerant and that seems to be the biggest thing that stands out apart from her natural hair! I am a natural and would not dream of putting down some one's hair natural or relaxed for my own emotional satisfaction. When you learn to love your own hair wether natural or relaxed you have to be tolerant of other people's decisions.

 

[melodee]

This is why I love the DC ladies so much. We are a myriad of skin hues, boby types, and hair textures. And everyone seems to celebrate each other's beauty--without criticizing the choices made.

At our meeting last weekend, we had many sistahs with relaxed or texturized hair. We also had natural sistahs with braids,twists,and/or pressed out hair. It was a beautiful sight.

I've got too many things to be concerned with in my life to allow in negative comments--or as Country Girl calls it--negative energy.
It's so true that there are mean spirited people(especially women). But don't add them to your list of concerns.

 

[kizzylonghair]

Heck no! I'm mad at that whole scene you just described! The part that makes me the maddest is that they actually said, "I bet they know nothing about their culture.."

What'd you say to them Kizzy? We'd have gotten into a "discussion" over that one.

CantBeCopied,

I was SO SHOCKED at what she said, I couldnt believe it .
I didnt want to lower myself, to these so called more black
cultured ( YEAH RIGHT) women.
Because the hood rat would have come out in me and I would have punched her!!!

If I could turn back the clock I would have said something

 

[MissYocairis]

Besides that, I think a large percentage of chicks who stretch are NOT hating their texture, otherwise they would relax every 6 weeks as prescribed. Having the patience to put up with the tangles, multiple textures, and stares from other people is an indication, IMO, that ladies who stretch are reasonably comfortable with their texture..

EXCELLENT POINT!!!

 

[MissYocairis]

CantBeCopied,

I was SO SHOCKED at what she said, I couldnt believe it .
I didnt want to lower myself, to these so called more black
cultured ( YEAH RIGHT) women.
Because the hood rat would have come out in me and I would have punched her!!!

If I could turn back the clock I would have said something

That kind of thing is unacceptable. That just goes to show you that having natural hair does not guarantee that you will have a superior consciousness to match. Her mentality was that crab in the barrell trying to pull you down. She THINKS she is evolved in thought and deed but, in actuality, she is in the EXACT SAME place consciously that she was BEFORE she went natural. At the end of the day.....white folk don't look at a relaxed sister and see a "woman".....they look at a relaxed sister and see a "Black Girl" same as what they see if she was natural.

 

[MeccaMedinah]

To answer the question, "Does natural mean you're more Black?" I say no. But, yes there are a lot of sell out chicks wearing relaxers.

There are also a lot of "posing" chicks rocking naturals who don't read half the books on Black history/culture/socioeconomic and political issues that some relaxed sistas read in a year. A relaxed head does not = "sell out" and/or "lack of consciousness" just like a natural head does not = "enlightened" or well-versed in Black history/social/political issues.

AS JILL SCOTT SAID...."just because somebody's rocking a natural does not automatically mean that person is 'positive'".

Nowhere in my reply did I say that relaxed heads=sellouts.
I am by no means a "militant nappy". But the truth is the truth. There are a lot of little girls & grown woman that hate their Blackness & will do anything in their power to play down their Blackness. Bleaching skin, dyed blond hair and blue contacts are all things that some of us do. But that is purely cosmetic, it won't truly change that fact that they are Black.
What about the fact that we don't know what conversation Kizzy & her friends were having in front of the militant nappies? They could have been justified in their comments.
The point is that there are many people who hate themselves, and some of them wear relaxers. It's undeniable.

 

[An_Original_Copy]

I don't understand how they could convey such hypocrisy. Many people consider natural textured type 4 hair to be "unkept, uncivilized'-loooking. How would they like to be judged based on their hair? Maybe they reacted that way, and called you guys FAKE because they've been picked on before, and called NAPPY. And I'm sure they didn't like it.

 

[kristina]

This is why I love the DC ladies so much. We are a myriad of skin hues, boby types, and hair textures. And everyone seems to celebrate each other's beauty--without criticizing the choices made.

At our meeting last weekend, we had many sistahs with relaxed or texturized hair. We also had natural sistahs with braids,twists,and/or pressed out hair. It was a beautiful sight.

I've got too many things to be concerned with in my life to allow in negative comments--or as Country Girl calls it--negative energy.
It's so true that there are mean spirited people(especially women). But don't add them to your list of concerns.

Word. It really was a sight and I was in awe of all the beautiful women and variety of hairstyles. I really love the positivity of this board and its members and the DC meeting was just the latest testimony to the fact that yes, black women can get together in unity without drama.

But responding to the OP-obviously there's something wrong with these girls that they feel the need to act this way and it has nothing to do with you or your relaxed hair.
Bottom line is that people that are this stupid and irrationally mean spirited don't deserve a response- kinda like getting mad at a KKK member's racism.

 

[kizzylonghair]

Nowhere in my reply did I say that relaxed heads=sellouts.
I am by no means a "militant nappy". But the truth is the truth. There are a lot of little girls & grown woman that hate their Blackness & will do anything in their power to play down their Blackness. Bleaching skin, dyed blond hair and blue contacts are all things that some of us do. But that is purely cosmetic, it won't truly change that fact that they are Black.
What about the fact that we don't know what conversation Kizzy & her friends were having in front of the militant nappies? They could have been justified in their comments.
The point is that there are many people who hate themselves, and some of them wear relaxers. It's undeniable.

I can confirm that NOTHING was said about these ladies, NOTHING.
We were just doing are thing.
If going to the ladies in a club, looking in the mirror, retouching our make up, fixing are hair is a crime- Shot ME!!!!!
Doesnt every girl do it.
If these girls had said they didnt like my outfit etc. Then they are intitled to there opinion but the whole hair, culture thing is STUPID!!

Since I have joined this forum, I have started to embrace my nappies, I love them and know how to look after both textures. There was a time I would relax when something natural popped out, not any more

I am not in the que to go natural but I wouldnt be afraid to do so.

It a personal choice