Do you take the Bible literally?

[blazingthru]

Total Victory Promised​

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The Spirit of God seemed to anticipate the struggle many would pass through in accepting the biblical assurances of total victory. Consequently the inspired writers were moved to use almost fanatical language in describing the possibilities for overcoming sin. Superlative expressions are utilized which actually boggle the mind. Instead of saying we may be saved, the Bible says we can be “saved to the uttermost” (Hebrews 7:25). Instead of saying we may conquer, it assures that we can be “more than conquerors” (Romans 8:37). Instead of being told that we can just triumph, we are told that we may “always triumph” (2 Corinthians 2:14). Instead of promising whatever we might ask to help us in our spiritual battles, the Bible says He will give us “exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think” (Ephesians 3:20). And the verse just prior to that one clearly guarantees that we may “be filled with all the fullness of God” (verse 19).

Admittedly, many of these promises are too vast for our human minds to comprehend fully, but surely they are intended to impress us with the magnitude of God’s resources in our behalf. If the language sounds exaggerated it is only because we are too feeble in faith and too weak in the flesh to believe such purity and sanctification could ever be fulfilled in us. We tend to trust our feelings quicker than the Word of God.

Is it important to believe the promises exactly as they read? Yes, because it is only through those promises that deliverance can be accomplished. “Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust” (2 Peter 1:4).

Notice that it is “by these” that we escape the corruption of sin. What are “these”? The promises of God. The sequence of victory is plainly marked out in this fantastic text. By faith in the promise we become a partaker of the divine nature, and through the power of that new nature in us we are able to escape the corruption of sin. In other words, everything depends on the surrender and commitment of one’s self to the indwelling Spirit of Christ. “Without me,” Jesus said, “ye can do nothing” (John 15:5).
Equally important is the inspired comment of Paul, “I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me” (Philippians 4:13). That little expression “all things” is the key to victory for every one of us. It includes power over drugs, immorality, appetite, pride, and every act of sin that would rob us of eternal life.

All Things Available​

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The big point here is that when you get the power of Christ in your life, you have everything else you could ever desire. “He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?” (Romans 8:32). There is that term again—“all things.” You will find it also in 2 Peter 1:3: “According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness ...”

When you put those texts together, an incredible picture emerges. By claiming the presence of Christ in your life, you also receive everything that Christ possesses. Paul described it this way: “But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption” (1 Corinthians 1:30).

Here the “all things” are broken down into very particular, individualized experiences, and we begin to see that Peter was right in stating that God has given us all things that pertain to godliness. Those Christians who doubt the possibility of overcoming sin completely should read these verses carefully. What do those words “righteousness,” “redemption,” and “sanctification” include? All three of those words promise us more than deliverance from the guilt of our past sins. The word “redemption” is not limited to redemption from the guilt of sin, but from the power of sin also. “Sanctification” is a word that describes continuous, daily growth in overcoming sin. “Righteousness” literally means right-doing and applies to a dynamic fulfillment of God’s will. They are all big words, but they all have the connotation of being set free, both from the guilt and the practice of sin.

Every child of Adam needs two things desperately—forgiveness for the past, and power for the future. Redemption includes both of them; and the idea that full deliverance from the guilt of sin is included, but only partial deliverance from the power of sin, is a perversion of the gospel. Jesus did not come to save us from the consequences of sin only, but to save us from the sin itself. Salvation is not a negative thing; not just the absence of something. He did not come just to take away something—our guilt—but to give us something—victory over sin. For God to forgive us and leave us under the power of continued sin would make God an accomplice of sin. He not only counts us righteous through the imputation of His atoning death, but He makes us righteous through the impartation of His victorious life.

After thoughtfully reading the entire sixth chapter of Romans, if you need more assurance that victory can be yours, read the following:

• 1 Corinthians 15:57—“But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.”
• 1 John 5:4—“For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”
• Philippians 2:5—“Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus.”
• 2 Corinthians 5:21—“… that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”
• 1 John 3:6—“Whatsoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.”

Let us return for a moment to the analogy of the hypnotized man. He could not physically lift a small glass from the table because his mind was so fully convinced that it couldn’t be done. Has Satan been able to immobilize the church through the power of his hypnotic, lying assertion that obedience is impossible? It certainly seems so.

No one is going to put forth any serious effort to do something that he believes to be impossible. Obviously then, those who believe they cannot live without sinning are not attempting to live without sin. No reasonable person will waste time and effort in a vain struggle to accomplish nothing.
That brings us to an interesting question: Can a person believe that there is no way to stop sinning, and yet make plans not to sin? Logically, it would seem highly unlikely, if not impossible. Yet the Bible commands us to “make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof”?(Romans 13:14). Do we indeed make provision for sin by holding that it is impossible not to sin?

 

[blazingthru]

To Him That Overcometh


The entire book of Revelation is addressed to the seven churches of Asia. In each of the churches certain ones received high commendation and glorious promises of heavenly reward. Without exception the blessing was extended “to him that overcometh.” Those seven churches symbolize every period of the Christian church from the apostles to the end of time. If victory over sin is not possible, no soul will be saved from those centuries of time.

To deny the possibility of total victory over sin is to rob God of the glory of His mission. He came, the Bible says, to destroy the works of the devil. Those works are the works of sin. If no one claimed His power to overcome sin completely, the devil’s accusation would be confirmed. The requirements of God would be exposed as too difficult to obey.


Jesus stated that He had come “to seek and to save that which was lost” (Luke 19:10). Here He indicated that more than just people needed to be restored. “That which was lost” included a sinless character. His mission was to counteract and neutralize the entire program of sin-defilement introduced by Satan. Restoring the image of God in man is a very important part of the everlasting gospel. That work of the gospel must be done before Jesus comes and not as some magical afterthought of our returning Lord.


The book of Revelation identifies the crowning characteristic of the redeemed as obedience. “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus” (Revelation 14:12). “And the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ” (Revelation 12:17). “Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city” (Revelation 22:14).


How significant it is that man’s condition for remaining in Eden is also the condition for being restored to Eden. Anyone who believes obedience is unimportant should read again the dramatic story of Adam and Eve. A tiny, physical act of sin led to all the stark tragedy of the past 6,000 years. Those who are restored to that lost paradise will have demonstrated that they can be trusted with eternal life. Through faithful obedience in the face of death, they will have proven Satan’s charges to be utterly false. Their steadfast loyalty will be an eternal guarantee of the security of God’s restored dominion.


What can we say, then, concerning those who look so lightly upon the good works of obedience? They are subjects of grave deception and are playing into Satan’s deadly sin-trap. The most glorious experience of the truly converted is to break the pattern of self-indulgence and sin. Under the rule of the Spirit of God, fleshly habits may be conquered and expelled from the life. Through faith in the promises unbelievable power may be released into the life of one who is willing to give up the enjoyment of sin.


The heart of God longs for us to take Him at His word and to claim the power He has promised. It is the only road to real victory. But no one can experience victory who does not believe victory is possible. Read again the assurances of the Bible. Do not try to twist them to match the weaknesses and failures of your human experience. They mean what they say. Deliverance is yours for the believing and the asking.


Right here we need to pause and consider an objection which is always brought against those who believe in total victory. It goes something like this: If you believe it is possible to live without sinning, are you able to say that your own life is free from sin?


Although the question deserves an answer, it should be pointed out that the objection is not relevant to the issue. If the Bible establishes a truth, it should be received on the grounds of its inspired authority and not on the basis of the messenger’s experience. If victory over all sin is possible through Christ, it is true, whether the preacher has claimed it or not claimed it. Further, the work of sanctification is a progressive, lifelong experience and can never be considered as finished in point of time. Even if one could be unconscious of any known sin, he could never boast of being sinless. In fact, the person who is closest to perfection would surely be the least likely to recognize it. Because the nearer he gets to Jesus the more imperfect he will appear in his own eyes.


The claim might also be made that the doctrine of victory over sin is highly idealistic and too theologically complicated to be practical. But nothing could be farther from the truth. Even a child can understand the simple faith-transaction of appropriating the promises of the Bible. There is not a habit or sin known to man that cannot be conquered through faith.


In the next few minutes you will be able to appreciate the beauty of this divine victory plan. You will learn how to stop smoking, cursing, overeating, gossiping, or committing any other sin. Let nothing distract you as you proceed to the next paragraph. It could be the turning point of your life and mean more than all the money in the world. Since so many are struggling with cigarettes, I will use that indulgence as an illustration of the victory we are describing. Put your own problem into the text, and then take the four steps to glorious victory.


The Secret of Victory


Have you heard about the evolutionary way of getting the victory over tobacco, or any other sin? It is sometimes called the “tapering” method, but generally it just doesn’t work. Oh, it partially works, of course, because old age takes care of some temptations and sins, and time settles the rest when death comes. But do you know why “trying” does not work in overcoming the devil?

Why can’t we fight the devil for a few months and finally drive him away? Because the devil is stronger than we are. We could fight him for a year, but he would still be stronger than we are at the end of the year. Trying will never break the power of sin in a single instance, because we’re facing an enemy who will always be stronger than we are. What, then, is the answer to our weakness and defeat? This question leads us to the sweetest and most sublime secret in the Word of God. Let us study it thoughtfully and with much prayer.


First of all, one must understand that all of heaven’s gifts are available to us through the promises of the Bible, and we receive them by faith. Peter describes the “exceeding great and precious promises” and assures us that “by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature” (2 Peter 1:4). Mighty power is stored within the promise to fulfill itself to all who claim it in faith. So few are willing to believe that the promised blessing becomes theirs the very moment they believe it. Why is it so hard to believe implicitly that God will do what He promises?


Now let us come down to the very heart of victory and consider the four simple scriptural steps that any believer may take in claiming God’s power. Four texts will illuminate the amazing transaction. First: “But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 15:57). Allow your mind to savor the fantastic message of these words. Victory is a gift! We do not earn it by our efforts, or deserve it because of any supposed goodness. The only thing we need do is ask for it, and the victory will be given to us freely by Christ. He is the only one who has ever gained the victory over Satan, and if we ever possess the victory, it will have to come as a gift from Him.

 

[blazingthru]

Let me ask you something. Do you need victory in your life over some binding, miserable habit of sin? Some are slaves to appetite, to alcohol, or tobacco. Others are struggling helplessly against impurity, anger, or worldliness. The Bible says you may have the victory as a gift through Jesus Christ. Do you believe He will give you that power if you ask Him? How certain can you be that God will answer your prayer for victory immediately? Here is how sure you can be—just as sure as Christ’s words are true! Our second text is Matthew 7:11, “If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?”


Is it a good thing when you ask for victory over tobacco, or any other fleshly or moral evil? Of course it is! And you don’t even have to ask if it is God’s will! He has already told us in the Bible that it is His will to destroy the works of sin and the devil. If we pray for more money or a better job we should always ask according to His will, but the victory over sin is promised to every one who asks in faith.


Will God give the victory when we ask Him? Jesus said He was more willing to give this good thing than we are to feed our children when they are hungry. He is waiting to honor your faith and to “supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus” (Philippians 4:19). These assurances are so open-ended and unlimited that our minds are staggered by it. Why have we been so reluctant to apply for the provisions of grace? Why is it so hard to believe that God means exactly what He says? He will keep every promise.




Faith Makes It So


Here is the next question. How do we know we have the victory after we ask Him? Simply because He said we would have it. We know God did not lie. We can believe His promise. The very moment we ask, we should accept the fact of fulfillment, thank Him for the gift, and get up and act like it has been done. No kind of proof-feeling or sign should be demanded or expected. The self-fulfilling power in the promise is released in response to our faith alone.

This brings us to the third text, found in Romans 6:11, “Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” The word “reckon” means to believe, or to consider it done. Every particle of faith should be focused on that one request for victory and then it should be accounted as done. Do you remember how Peter walked on the water? He asked Jesus if he could step out of the boat onto the raging sea, and Jesus told Peter to come. But how long did Peter do the impossible by walking on the water? The Bible says, “When he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me” (Matthew 14:30).


What was Peter afraid of? He was afraid of sinking and drowning. In spite of Christ’s assurance that he could safely walk on the water, Peter began to doubt the word of the Master. That is when he began to sink. As long as he believed the promise of Jesus and acted in faith, he was safe. When he doubted, he sank.


Now, what is the impossible thing as far as you are concerned? It is not walking on water. It is overcoming that tobacco habit. And Christ says, “Come to me. I will give you the victory.” As long as you believe that you have been delivered, you will have the victory. It is as simple as that. The very moment you ask for victory it will be placed in your life as a reservoir of power. You won’t feel it, but it is there. It will remain there as long as you accept it in faith.


For some people the deliverance is so dramatic that they lose even the appetite for the sin. Tobacco addicts have sometimes been delivered from the craving, but this is not the usual way God does it. Usually, the desire remains, but in the moment of temptation, the power to walk past the temptation springs forth from within. Faith accepts the fact of deliverance and constantly claims the victory which is in the secure possession of the believer.


The final step to victory is described in our fourth text, Romans 13:14. “But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.” So strong is the confidence in the appropriated power of God that no consideration is given to falling under the power of that sin again. Under the old “trying” plan, provision was made to fail in most cases. Cigarettes were placed on a shelf, and the smoker said to himself, “I’m going to try never to smoke again, but if I don’t make it I know where they are.” But under the “trusting” plan, we have no reason to fear failure on the grounds of human weakness. Victory does not depend on our strength but on God’s power. We might fail, but He cannot fail. Cigarettes are thrown away. All plans that might involve any degree of compromise are abandoned.


Little Jimmy was in trouble because he had gone swimming against his mother’s orders. When asked why he had disobeyed her, Jimmy answered, “Because I got tempted.” Mother then said, “I noticed that you took your bathing suit with you this morning. Why did you do that?” Jimmy answered, “Because I expected to get tempted.” How typical of those who do not quite trust their own strength to win the victory. They make provision to fail. They take their bathing suit along. With God there need be no provision to fail.


Someone might raise the objection that this could be discouraging. Suppose the person does fail? Even Peter began to sink. Would it not shake confidence in God if the victory was not maintained? No. Peter’s sinking had nothing to do with the failure of divine power. It did not change Christ’s will for him to walk on the water. It only pointed out Peter’s need of stronger faith to enable him to obey Christ’s command. Our faith could weaken. We might need to be reminded of our total dependence upon His strength. But this does not diminish the beautiful plan of God to impart power and victory through “exceeding great and precious promises” of the Bible. Without faith by the receiver not even God’s promises can be appropriated. The limits are clearly defined in the words of Jesus, “According to your faith be it unto you” (Matthew 9:29).


There it is, friend, in all of its simplicity. And it works! If you are willing to be delivered, it works. Nothing will help the one who is not willing to give up the cigarettes. But if you want it, it is there. Victory, power, deliverance—just reach out in faith and it is yours. Believe it and claim it this very moment. God wants you to be free.
article by Joe Crews

 

[CoilyFields]

The funny thing is...most Christians I know do believe that you have to live sinfree and fulfill the law or you go to hell...and they still live any kind of way. Even the ones that sin and say "dont judge me" or "God knows my heart" believe that if they dont get right theyre going to hell, even though they are saved. But yet...

In my estimation the problem isnt whether you think you will never sin again or if you will continue to sin at times. The problem is in folks not wanting to submit to God in all of their ways. Not wanting a relationship with him in which they will crucify their flesh daily, take up their cross and following Him with their whole hearts.

 

[CoilyFields]

For those of you who take the bible literally... do you all live by the following verse literally?

1 John 3:9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Poohbear
I guess I should explain that when I say I take the Bible literally I mean that I believe the historical events and divine/miraculous acts written in it. That no part of the Bible is false. That the OT and NT are true accounts.

That does not mean that we take a verse like the above and simply look at the surface. Because if that were the case then there would be tons of verses that were "contradictory". God tells us that we must study his word because the deep mysteries of Him are revealed by His holy spirit."However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth…He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you" (John 16:13-14).


So...heres a good explanation for that verse, first explaining verse 6, which says much the same thing. (From David Guziks commentary on www.blueletterbible.org NIV version)

1 John 3:6
"No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."

Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
a. Whoever abides in Him does not sin: Since sin is lawlessness, a disregard for God (1 John 3:4), and since Jesus came to take away our sins (1 John 3:5), and since in Jesus there is no sin (1 John 3:5), then to abide in Him means to not sin.
i. It is very important to understand what the Bible means - and when it does not mean - when it says does not sin. According to the verb tense John uses, does not sin means does not live a life style of habitual sin. John has already told us in 1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. In 1 John 1:8, the grammar indicates John is speaking about occasional acts of sin. The grammar of 1 John 3:6 indicates that John is speaking of a settled, continued lifestyle of sin. John is not teaching here the possibility of sinless perfection.
ii. “The present tense in the Greek verb implied habit, continuity, unbroken sequence” (Stott); the NIV has the right idea when it translates these verbs with phrases such as keeps on sinning, continues to sin, and he cannot go on sinning.
b. Whoever abides in Him does not sin: John’s message is plain and consistent with the rest of the Scriptures. It tells us that a life style of habitual sin is inconsistent with a life of abiding in Jesus Christ. A true Christian can only be temporarily in a life style of sin.
i. Paul’s teaching in Romans 6 is a great example of this principle. He shows us that when a person comes to Jesus, when their sins are forgiven and God’s grace is extended to them, they are radically changed - the old man is dead, and the new man lives. So it is utterly incompatible for a new creation in Christ to be comfortable in habitual sin; such a place can only be temporary for the Christian.
ii. In some ways, the question is not “do you sin or not?” We each sin. The question is, “How do you react when you sin? Do you give into the pattern of sin, and let it dominate your lifestyle? Or do you humbly confess your sin, and do battle against it with the power Jesus can give?”
iii. This is why it is so grieving to see Christians make excuses for their sin, and not humbly confess them. Unless the sin is dealt with squarely, it will contribute to a pattern of sin that may soon become their lifestyle - perhaps a secret lifestyle, but a lifestyle nonetheless.
iv. What is important is that we never sign a “peace treaty” with sin. We never wink at its presence or excuse it by saying, “Everybody has their own sinful areas, and this is mine. Jesus understands.” This completely goes against everything we are in Jesus, and the work He has done in our life.


1 John 3:9 "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God."
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him: The change from being of the devil to being children of God comes as we are born of God; when this happens, our old nature, patterned after the instinctive rebellion of Adam, dies - and we are given a new nature, patterned after the instinctive obedience of Jesus Christ.
i. John here is simply emphasizing what it means to be born again. It means that a change comes into our lives - it is a change that will be worked out into every area of our lives as we grown in Christ, but it is a real, observable change.
ii. It is the same message Paul preached, saying that as believers we are to put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and that we are to put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness. (Ephesians 4:22; 4:24)
d. Does not sin . . . he cannot sin: Does not sin and cannot sin each have the same verb tense as does not sin in 1 John 3:6, meaning a continual practice of habitual sin. John tells us that when we are born again - born into the family of God - there is a real change in our relation to sin.

 

[Shimmie]

I take the Bible literally... and spiritually. Something that is literal is accurate and without exaggeration... I believe there was an actual Goliath and David knocked him out with a pebble. I believe Lot's wife turned to a pillar salt. I believe there was a great flood and only Noah and his family survived. I believe Jesus healed all those folks and raised people from the dead...I believe every single Word.

and Amein.....

 

[Carolina18]

I take the Bible literally... and spiritually. Something that is literal is accurate and without exaggeration... I believe there was an actual Goliath and David knocked him out with a pebble. I believe Lot's wife turned to a pillar salt. I believe there was a great flood and only Noah and his family survived. I believe Jesus healed all those folks and raised people from the dead...I believe every single Word.

This is interesting. Just so I understand you clearly, are you saying the examples you mention above are purely literal ones, or do they also have spiritual meanings, and if the latter, what are they?

 

[aribell]

The Bible is wonderful. I believe the events. Why not? I will tell you something, many people want to pit science against faith, but at the end of the day, many scientists end up creating their own fantasies about the universe to account for its mysteries. Once they have come to the last equation and still that doesn't explain it, then they go into the "many worlds" hypothesis (alternate universes) and other things that sound like they came straight out of Star Trek. I say that to say that what is in Scripture is no stranger or harder to believe than the reality of our universe as we know it.

I also love how God used temporal events to convey spiritual realities as well. Everything that happened to the Israelites symbolizes the life of the believer in Christ--coming out of the world and into God's promise. At church this Sunday, the pastor was talking about how the first group the Israelites defeated when they entered Canaan were the Hittites, and that when he looked the name up, he learned that "Hittite" means "fear" in Hebrew (or really, "sons of terror"). So, in the natural, God was with the Israelites conquering the Promised land, but it was also a reflection of a spiritual reality that they had to (and we have to) destroy fear in order to carry out God's work. And wasn't it fear that ultimately led that first generation to die in the wilderness instead of going in? They were too afraid of the people they saw and wouldn't trust God?

And then in the New Testament, what does Hebrews tell us, but that Satan keeps us in bondage through our fear? Christ came to deliver those who "who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage." (Hebrews 2:15) The Israelites who died in the wilderness cowed at the prospect of death and perished in the wilderness, never actualizing their freedom from Egypt. But the generation of Israelites that did enter in, they conquered "fear" first. They followed Joshua--a Christ-figure--into the land.

So it all fits together. The stories are not just stories, not just historical events. They are spiritual truths as well. God knows what He is doing.

 

[Carolina18]

Poohbear
I guess I should explain that when I say I take the Bible literally I mean that I believe the historical events and divine/miraculous acts written in it. That no part of the Bible is false. That the OT and NT are true accounts.

That does not mean that we take a verse like the above and simply look at the surface. Because if that were the case then there would be tons of verses that were "contradictory". God tells us that we must study his word because the deep mysteries of Him are revealed by His holy spirit."However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth…He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you" (John 16:13-14).


So...heres a good explanation for that verse, first explaining verse 6, which says much the same thing. (From David Guziks commentary on www.blueletterbible.org NIV version)

1 John 3:6
"No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."

Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
a. Whoever abides in Him does not sin: Since sin is lawlessness, a disregard for God (1 John 3:4), and since Jesus came to take away our sins (1 John 3:5), and since in Jesus there is no sin (1 John 3:5), then to abide in Him means to not sin.
i. It is very important to understand what the Bible means - and when it does not mean - when it says does not sin. According to the verb tense John uses, does not sin means does not live a life style of habitual sin. John has already told us in 1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. In 1 John 1:8, the grammar indicates John is speaking about occasional acts of sin. The grammar of 1 John 3:6 indicates that John is speaking of a settled, continued lifestyle of sin. John is not teaching here the possibility of sinless perfection.
ii. “The present tense in the Greek verb implied habit, continuity, unbroken sequence” (Stott); the NIV has the right idea when it translates these verbs with phrases such as keeps on sinning, continues to sin, and he cannot go on sinning.
b. Whoever abides in Him does not sin: John’s message is plain and consistent with the rest of the Scriptures. It tells us that a life style of habitual sin is inconsistent with a life of abiding in Jesus Christ. A true Christian can only be temporarily in a life style of sin.
i. Paul’s teaching in Romans 6 is a great example of this principle. He shows us that when a person comes to Jesus, when their sins are forgiven and God’s grace is extended to them, they are radically changed - the old man is dead, and the new man lives. So it is utterly incompatible for a new creation in Christ to be comfortable in habitual sin; such a place can only be temporary for the Christian.
ii. In some ways, the question is not “do you sin or not?” We each sin. The question is, “How do you react when you sin? Do you give into the pattern of sin, and let it dominate your lifestyle? Or do you humbly confess your sin, and do battle against it with the power Jesus can give?”
iii. This is why it is so grieving to see Christians make excuses for their sin, and not humbly confess them. Unless the sin is dealt with squarely, it will contribute to a pattern of sin that may soon become their lifestyle - perhaps a secret lifestyle, but a lifestyle nonetheless.
iv. What is important is that we never sign a “peace treaty” with sin. We never wink at its presence or excuse it by saying, “Everybody has their own sinful areas, and this is mine. Jesus understands.” This completely goes against everything we are in Jesus, and the work He has done in our life.


1 John 3:9 "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God."
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him: The change from being of the devil to being children of God comes as we are born of God; when this happens, our old nature, patterned after the instinctive rebellion of Adam, dies - and we are given a new nature, patterned after the instinctive obedience of Jesus Christ.
i. John here is simply emphasizing what it means to be born again. It means that a change comes into our lives - it is a change that will be worked out into every area of our lives as we grown in Christ, but it is a real, observable change.
ii. It is the same message Paul preached, saying that as believers we are to put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and that we are to put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness. (Ephesians 4:22; 4:24)
d. Does not sin . . . he cannot sin: Does not sin and cannot sin each have the same verb tense as does not sin in 1 John 3:6, meaning a continual practice of habitual sin. John tells us that when we are born again - born into the family of God - there is a real change in our relation to sin.

I know your post was directed at Poohbear but could you explain the parts in blue above? When is sin habitual/a continued lifestyle? What is the cut-off point between occasional and habitual?

 

[lilanie]

I believe all in the Bible to be the Truth... As I learn in Christ ~ I will be better be able to discern what are the parables and whatnot. Right now, I want to know who's who to whom and where did that happen...

God Bless y'all!

 

[auparavant]

Lol! Care to expound?

Sorry, I'm just now seeing this. Some of my learning/understanding is via Jewish tradition, which is the basis of catholicism, actually. But, for example, Genesis (Bere****)...not literal. It's narrative. We don't know the "days" involved and how many millennia each one contained. Events were not exactly stacked up precisely according to the narrative in order to have it read literally. Even Job was written as a moral teaching by Moses. He didn't exist, exactly. So, context is everything and so is sacred tradition. The early writings expound much on it...from the Talmud (Gemara and Mishnah) to the early Church fathers and even books that are canonized but not contained in some churches as well as those that haven't been canonized by Rome or Constantinople...think Ethiopian. Since I believe in sacred tradition because it was handed down by Moses (oral law, not just written) and has provided the pattern of G-d's revelations to man, I realize that many others who do take the bible literally and are sola scriptura (scripture only minus sacred apostolic tradition) will not believe this.

 

[CoilyFields]

I know your post was directed at Poohbear but could you explain the parts in blue above? When is sin habitual/a continued lifestyle? What is the cut-off point between occasional and habitual?

I can't speak for the author but when I think of habitual sin I am thinking of when we as believers give ourselves over to sin...meaning we are no longer resisting or even attempting to resist the presence of this particular sin in our lives. We welcome it and have settled in. We have ignored the grieving Holy Spirit to the point where we even feel very little guilt/shame when that sin is pointed out.

We have given reign to our flesh and, as a result, are no longer in right standing before God. (Not that we are no longer saved-though some do believe this-but we have forfeited the benefits of our salvation).

I believe that embracing a habitual lifestyle of sin(s) (and here I cannot put a number or timeframe or extent...thats between God and the person) should cause the person to question if they are really saved. Did they truly accept Jesus into their heart? Do they really believe in Him and their need for salvation? Or did they just go through the (e)motions as an insurance policy...from "possibly" burning in hell?

 

[CoilyFields]

Sorry, I'm just now seeing this. Some of my learning/understanding is via Jewish tradition, which is the basis of catholicism, actually. But, for example, Genesis (Bere****)...not literal. It's narrative. We don't know the "days" involved and how many millennia each one contained. Events were not exactly stacked up precisely according to the narrative in order to have it read literally. Even Job was written as a moral teaching by Moses. He didn't exist, exactly. So, context is everything and so is sacred tradition. The early writings expound much on it...from the Talmud (Gemara and Mishnah) to the early Church fathers and even books that are canonized but not contained in some churches as well as those that haven't been canonized by Rome or Constantinople...think Ethiopian. Since I believe in sacred tradition because it was handed down by Moses (oral law, not just written) and has provided the pattern of G-d's revelations to man, I realize that many others who do take the bible literally and are sola scriptura (scripture only minus sacred apostolic tradition) will not believe this.

For clarification...are you saying that your basis for not taking the Bible literally is other Jewish and Catholic books that explain this? They explain that people like Job were fictional? What about the other things that Moses wrote? The flood, the exodus, red sea, manna from heaven etc? Are those not considered to have really happened?

 

[Carolina18]

I can't speak for the author but when I think of habitual sin I am thinking of when we as believers give ourselves over to sin...meaning we are no longer resisting or even attempting to resist the presence of this particular sin in our lives. We welcome it and have settled in. We have ignored the grieving Holy Spirit to the point where we even feel very little guilt/shame when that sin is pointed out.

We have given reign to our flesh and, as a result, are no longer in right standing before God. (Not that we are no longer saved-though some do believe this-but we have forfeited the benefits of our salvation).

I believe that embracing a habitual lifestyle of sin(s) (and here I cannot put a number or timeframe or extent...thats between God and the person) should cause the person to question if they are really saved. Did they truly accept Jesus into their heart? Do they really believe in Him and their need for salvation? Or did they just go through the (e)motions as an insurance policy...from "possibly" burning in hell?

Ok, so does resisting a particular sin mean turning from it? Also, have you resisted sin every single time the Holy Spirit has admonished you about it?

 

[CoilyFields]

Ok, so does resisting a particular sin mean turning from it? Also, have you resisted sin every single time the Holy Spirit has admonished you about it?

Yes/No. Nope.

Though we may resist a sin...we may not always be successfull. It may be a struggle.

I can't put a number on it (as in how many times before it becomes habitual). Its more like a state of mind/heart. You have "partnered" with this sin. Allowing it to reign in your life. You have welcomed it in and entertained it gladly. You have made yourself a slave to this sin.

 

[auparavant]

For clarification...are you saying that your basis for not taking the Bible literally is other Jewish and Catholic books that explain this? They explain that people like Job were fictional? What about the other things that Moses wrote? The flood, the exodus, red sea, manna from heaven etc? Are those not considered to have really happened?

I don't believe Mt. Sinai, the exodus nor the grand deluge are fictional. Some stories are narrative and some are parables. Everything has moral value.

 

[Carolina18]

Yes/No. Nope.

Though we may resist a sin...we may not always be successfull. It may be a struggle.

I can't put a number on it (as in how many times before it becomes habitual). Its more like a state of mind/heart. You have "partnered" with this sin. Allowing it to reign in your life. You have welcomed it in and entertained it gladly. You have made yourself a slave to this sin.

So, does that make you a habitual sinner, or have you not done it enough times for that sin to become habitual? I'm just trying to understand exactly how this works and where the scriptural backing for it is. How can one know whether they are a habitual sinner, and therefore, according to the stance taken in the article you posted, "not born of God" in 1 John 3:9? Is it mentioned somewhere in Scripture?

 

[blazingthru]

LADIES:

Quick question. I would like feedback. (I have 2 Examples)

I believe that a "literal interpretation" may still be interpreted differently.
Even scholars who legitimately "interpret" the Bible with genuine interest often disagree. This is nothing new.

Example 1) There a is a scripture in the NT about "women being quiet" (I'm at work, no time to pull the verses!)

Many interpret this to mean women cannot be worship leaders or be ordained as ministers, etc to lead all....

Some interpret this to mean that AT THAT TIME, not enough men were participating in the "church" and thus women filled that role, and the person saying "women be quiet" was saying that for the purpose of let men step up now....but certainly NOT that women cannot or should not lead in the church....


Example 2) There is a scripture in the NT about Deacons having one wife.
Many interpret this to mean: a) In order to be a deacon in the church you must be MARRIED. An unmarried person cannot be deacons. b) Others say it simply means you should be married (IF YOU ARE MARRIED) to one wife and not practice polygamy...for the purpose of not having to split your time any more away from God with the responsibility of having more than 1 wife.
Feedback? (sorry so long)

I think that the purpose was to weed out the majority and so that few could apply for the position. I know that the scriptures say to being married is a choice. But the title Bishop/Deacon etc., should be for a certain type of person.


Paul also says pointedly that elders are to be husbands; that is, men: “A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife” (1 Timothy 3:2). (Note: The terms bishop and elder are interchangeable.) “[Paul] did not say that just any man could be a bishop, even as in the Old Testament not just any son of Aaron could be a priest. The office has always been limited. The Christian leader Paul spoke of must be ‘blameless’ and married, ‘vigilant, sober, of good behavior,’ etc. There is a long list of requirements that eventually eliminates most men and leaves only a very few eligible.” Women aren’t the only ones who are ineligible to be elders and pastors; so are most of the men!

Of course, every Christian, male and female, is called to minister in some capacity, but not in every capacity. “And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ” (Ephesians 4:11, 12).

Woman and Being Silent

2 Timothy 3:16
King James Version (KJV)

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

At first I think people might think its a mistake on Pauls part, but no as the text above All Scriputure is given by inspiration of God.
Galatians 3:28

King James Version (KJV)

28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.


1 Corinthians 11:3
King James Version (KJV)

3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

My personal opinion, No I do not believe that woman should be leaders and head of the church not at all. I beleive that that duty should fall on Men, however, I do believe that Woman have special gifts that help build up the church I beleive that she can have a huge part in ministry even give the message but not to instruct men. but I base that on the scriptures. I do not wish for that role and cannot understand why any woman would, but then in our world some woman want to do mens jobs and I do not. I read in the scriptures that at times it required that woman fill the role of Leadership in times where men could or would not. But that is not God's design for woman. I don't meant to offend anyone I know there are female minister on board. I just think that is not God's plan base on the scriptures and I posted this information some time ago. Why I came to that conclusion.

believe there are a number of women prophets in the Bible who are spirit filled, and in that respect they teach. But the word "elder" and "pastor" in the Bible specifically refers to ordination, and there's no example in the Bible anywhere of God ordaining a woman in the capacity of pastor or elder.

Two Jewish slaves, Amram and Jochebed, had three unique children. Their names were Miriam, the oldest; Aaron; then Moses. All three of the children were prophets, which is very unusual. Of course, Phillip had four daughters that were prophetesses. But only the boys, who were Moses and Aaron, could serve in the capacity of priest. Likewise, a man is supposed to be the priest of his family. This is something that God established in Eden, and it's still in effect today.

It may or may not be the ideal, but we are living in a sinful world. In dealing with the sin issue, God established men to be the servant leaders in their families. The church is an extension of that. And I believe the men should be the servant leaders in ministry in the church. That doesn't mean that women should not teach and minister--they can even preach and do evangelism. But when a woman serves in the capacity of a pastor, it's priestly in nature. For instance, a pastor is the one who carries out the functions of the Lord's Supper. There's no example in the Bible of a woman doing that, so I feel strongly it is a biblical issue.

I respect people who may disagree. But I cannot find solid support in any example in the Bible. For instance, they like to use the verse that says, "In Christ there is neither male or female." Yet in context, all this really means is that we all have, regardless of gender, equal access to God and equal access to heaven. But it never means that there's no distinction between men and women in ministry.

 

[Poohbear]

I said : literally and/or spiritually,
but there is no contradiction with this verse.
We are the work of God, in process and progress.

It's not a fairy tale! Time is required and faith and obedience.

In the natural, it takes time to be born.

These verses can better explain what I am saying : It is a process, kingdoms to conquer (we have many,-pride, lust, lie, adultery, fornication, indifference...- and each must fall).

Jn 3:30 He(Christ) must become greater; I(Self) must become less.

2 Cor. 3:18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Crown

All I did was post that verse. I did not explain it. It says what it says.

To clarify some of the points you made:

I did not say nor imply that there was a contradiction with that verse.

I did not say nor imply that this is a fairy tale when it comes to faith and obedience.

Yes, we were created by God and He works in us. And I know Philippians 2:12 is commonly used to support this "It takes time" and "We're a work in progress" concepts, but we must really look at what that verse is saying withing the context of Scripture. When this verse says "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" it is not saying, "it's okay for a believer sin a little bit every now and then".

John 3:30 also does not touch on this "process" you are referring to. John 3:30 is in reference to John testifying about Jesus. Jesus is far above all, everything that is on this earth. He must be more prominent than ourselves. It's not saying anything about how often we sin or sin not.

2 Corinthians 3:18 says, "But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord."

Once something is changed, there's no longer a process. The process, whatever it may be, is done.

~~~~~

I would also like to know what your response would be to the question that Carolina18 asked CoilyFields in post #47.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Poohbear]

CoilyFields

Yes, we must "study to shew thyself approved unto God" (2 Tim 2:15) and yes, there are mysteries of God that only the Spirit can speak and understand.

I posted this verse with no explanation. My intention was to get people to really think about what they are saying when they say, "I take the Bible literally."

And the David Guziks commentary that you posted is man's explanation, not God's.

No matter how you put it, sin is sin to God... whether it's habitual, deliberate, intentional, willingly, often, rarely, every now and then, "didn't mean to", occasional, continual, constant, remorseful, heartfelt, secret, public, etc.

And I would really like to hear your response to Carolina18's post #47.

Thanks in advance.

Poohbear
I guess I should explain that when I say I take the Bible literally I mean that I believe the historical events and divine/miraculous acts written in it. That no part of the Bible is false. That the OT and NT are true accounts.

That does not mean that we take a verse like the above and simply look at the surface. Because if that were the case then there would be tons of verses that were "contradictory". God tells us that we must study his word because the deep mysteries of Him are revealed by His holy spirit."However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth…He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you" (John 16:13-14).


So...heres a good explanation for that verse, first explaining verse 6, which says much the same thing. (From David Guziks commentary on www.blueletterbible.org NIV version)

1 John 3:6
"No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."

Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
a. Whoever abides in Him does not sin: Since sin is lawlessness, a disregard for God (1 John 3:4), and since Jesus came to take away our sins (1 John 3:5), and since in Jesus there is no sin (1 John 3:5), then to abide in Him means to not sin.
i. It is very important to understand what the Bible means - and when it does not mean - when it says does not sin. According to the verb tense John uses, does not sin means does not live a life style of habitual sin. John has already told us in 1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. In 1 John 1:8, the grammar indicates John is speaking about occasional acts of sin. The grammar of 1 John 3:6 indicates that John is speaking of a settled, continued lifestyle of sin. John is not teaching here the possibility of sinless perfection.
ii. “The present tense in the Greek verb implied habit, continuity, unbroken sequence” (Stott); the NIV has the right idea when it translates these verbs with phrases such as keeps on sinning, continues to sin, and he cannot go on sinning.
b. Whoever abides in Him does not sin: John’s message is plain and consistent with the rest of the Scriptures. It tells us that a life style of habitual sin is inconsistent with a life of abiding in Jesus Christ. A true Christian can only be temporarily in a life style of sin.
i. Paul’s teaching in Romans 6 is a great example of this principle. He shows us that when a person comes to Jesus, when their sins are forgiven and God’s grace is extended to them, they are radically changed - the old man is dead, and the new man lives. So it is utterly incompatible for a new creation in Christ to be comfortable in habitual sin; such a place can only be temporary for the Christian.
ii. In some ways, the question is not “do you sin or not?” We each sin. The question is, “How do you react when you sin? Do you give into the pattern of sin, and let it dominate your lifestyle? Or do you humbly confess your sin, and do battle against it with the power Jesus can give?”
iii. This is why it is so grieving to see Christians make excuses for their sin, and not humbly confess them. Unless the sin is dealt with squarely, it will contribute to a pattern of sin that may soon become their lifestyle - perhaps a secret lifestyle, but a lifestyle nonetheless.
iv. What is important is that we never sign a “peace treaty” with sin. We never wink at its presence or excuse it by saying, “Everybody has their own sinful areas, and this is mine. Jesus understands.” This completely goes against everything we are in Jesus, and the work He has done in our life.


1 John 3:9 "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God."
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him: The change from being of the devil to being children of God comes as we are born of God; when this happens, our old nature, patterned after the instinctive rebellion of Adam, dies - and we are given a new nature, patterned after the instinctive obedience of Jesus Christ.
i. John here is simply emphasizing what it means to be born again. It means that a change comes into our lives - it is a change that will be worked out into every area of our lives as we grown in Christ, but it is a real, observable change.
ii. It is the same message Paul preached, saying that as believers we are to put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and that we are to put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness. (Ephesians 4:22; 4:24)
d. Does not sin . . . he cannot sin: Does not sin and cannot sin each have the same verb tense as does not sin in 1 John 3:6, meaning a continual practice of habitual sin. John tells us that when we are born again - born into the family of God - there is a real change in our relation to sin.

 

[loolalooh]

delete

 

[Crown]

~~~~~

I would also like to know what your response would be to the question that Carolina18 asked CoilyFields in post #47.

Thanks in advance.

So, does that make you a habitual sinner, or have you not done it enough times for that sin to become habitual? I'm just trying to understand exactly how this works and where the scriptural backing for it is. How can one know whether they are a habitual sinner, and therefore, according to the stance taken in the article you posted, "not born of God" in 1 John 3:9? Is it mentioned somewhere in Scripture?

God knows who is born of Him and who is not.
It's not my business!

I don’t agree with the: it’s okay to sin a little bit every now and then.
I don’t believe in the habitual sin or occasional sin.
Sin is sin.
You have problem with this sin or you are delivered from this sin.
Depending on the person, some sin take more time than others to be eradicated. It’s a reality.

When God delivers His child from a sin: he is delivered.
But, this child did not have just one sin.

I am talking about:
Kingdoms of Self that must fall in order for Christ to reign.

As example, take the process of refinement, metals purification or the potter working on his clay.



We can not take a part of Heb. 10:26, we have to see the whole picture :
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

For me, the key of this verse is: the knowledge of the truth.
How many use it?

1Tim. 2: 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

2Tim. 2: 24 And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

2Tim. 3: 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

I see a process here:
The process begins with repentance and continues by learning, till one can say, from glory to glory, in its fullness:
Gal. 2: 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.

 

[Carolina18]

God knows who is born of Him and who is not.
It's not my business!

I don’t agree with the: it’s okay to sin a little bit every now and then.
I don’t believe in the habitual sin or occasional sin.
Sin is sin.
You have problem with this sin or you are delivered from this sin.
Depending on the person, some sin take more time than others to be eradicated. It’s a reality.

When God delivers His child from a sin: he is delivered.
But, this child did not have just one sin.

I am talking about:
Kingdoms of Self that must fall in order for Christ to reign.

As example, take the process of refinement, metals purification or the potter working on his clay.



We can not take a part of Heb. 10:26, we have to see the whole picture :
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

For me, the key of this verse is: the knowledge of the truth.
How many use it?

1Tim. 2: 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

2Tim. 2: 24 And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

2Tim. 3: 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

I see a process here:
The process begins with repentance and continues by learning, till one can say, from glory to glory, in its fullness:
Gal. 2: 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.

Thanks for your response Crown and your observation regarding Hebrews 10:26. Would you consider yourself to have come to the knowledge of the truth?

 

[Poohbear]

God knows who is born of Him and who is not.
It's not my business!

I don’t agree with the: it’s okay to sin a little bit every now and then.
I don’t believe in the habitual sin or occasional sin.
Sin is sin.
You have problem with this sin or you are delivered from this sin.
Depending on the person, some sin take more time than others to be eradicated. It’s a reality.

When God delivers His child from a sin: he is delivered.
But, this child did not have just one sin.

I am talking about:
Kingdoms of Self that must fall in order for Christ to reign.

As example, take the process of refinement, metals purification or the potter working on his clay.



We can not take a part of Heb. 10:26, we have to see the whole picture :
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

For me, the key of this verse is: the knowledge of the truth.
How many use it?

1Tim. 2: 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

2Tim. 2: 24 And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

2Tim. 3: 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

I see a process here:
The process begins with repentance and continues by learning, till one can say, from glory to glory, in its fullness:
Gal. 2: 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.

Crown - I'm not talking about how long it takes to eradicate or get rid of sin. And you're right when you said, "we cannot take part of Hebrews 10:26," so let's just ponder on the whole verse of Hebrews 10:26:

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins..."

Now, let's use a simple example:

Let's say you read in God's word "Thou shalt not bear false witness" (Exodus 20:16; Exodus 23:1; Deutoronomy 5:20) You have received this knowledge of truth that it is against God's law to bear false witness or to tell a lie.

Now, after you receive this knowledge of truth, you decide to tell a lie...no matter what type of lie it is, no matter how long you've been a Christian, whatever the case may be... you tell a lie AFTER you have received the knowledge of truth.

Now because you have told a lie after receiving the knowledge of truth, you have sinned wilfully. Wilful sin is when you commit a sin that you KNOW is wrong, regardless of how much you claim to love and know Jesus, no matter how often you go to church or read your bible or pray.

Now because you sinned wilfully by telling a lie after receiving the knowledge of truth that you should not bear false witness, there remains no more sacrifice for sins.

So what is this verse talking about when it says, "there remains no more sacrifice for sins?" Let's look at Hebrews 10:10-12...

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God..."

Jesus is our sacrifice for sins once you confess and believe. He became the sacrifice for sins by shedding his blood and dying on the cross. The blood of bulls and goats could not take away our sins. Neither can the priests or ministers. The sacrifice of Jesus Christ is the only sacrifice that forgives sins.

So since this Hebrews 10:26 verse is saying that if we tell a lie after we know it is wrong, that sin is no longer forgiven. Telling a lie is just one example. We must see all sin in this way. Wilful sin regardless of what that sin is, how often you've done it, etc. is not forgiven.

 

[CoilyFields]

So, does that make you a habitual sinner, or have you not done it enough times for that sin to become habitual? I'm just trying to understand exactly how this works and where the scriptural backing for it is. How can one know whether they are a habitual sinner, and therefore, according to the stance taken in the article you posted, "not born of God" in 1 John 3:9? Is it mentioned somewhere in Scripture?

Sorry it took so long but here goes...

When the Bible speaks about the believer there are many things that are said that may seem contradictory. It is each believers job to study and seek God for understanding.

Premise 1: We have been reborn spiritually

John 3:3 "In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

1 Peter 1:23 "For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God."

2 Cor 5:17 "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"


Premise 2: We still commit sins...even after receiving salvation

Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"

1 John 1:8 "And if we shall say we do not have sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

Romans 7:18 "I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out."

There are many other scriptures that point out sins that Christians are committing (Many of Pauls letters address these issues within the church). The Bible points out in 2 Tim 3:16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness"
The words in bold suggest that something in the believers life is wrong and must be made right.


The fact that we sin does not make the sins we may commit ok due to their inevitablity. But the fact is that our spirits are at war with our flesh. Galatians 5:17 "For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want."

Premise 3: Sanctification is the process by which premise 2 is reconciled with premise 1.

1 John 3:9 "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God."

We are reborn...and the previous scriptures show that we do, in fact sin, after having recieved salvation...but 1 John 3:9 says that if we're born again we won't continue to sin?

Either the Bible contradicts itself or there is an explanation for the above. Either I'm perfect after regenration or Im not.

2 Cor 5:21 "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

When we gave up our sin we were given Jesus' righteousness. This is our spiritual guarantee of no longer having to pay the ultimate penalty of sin (eternal seperation from God) BUT in the meantime we have work to do. Not the work of the cross (because Jesus already did that) but the work of conforming ourselves to the image of Christ...sanctification.

2 Cor 3:18 "And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit."

John 17:17 "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth"

When we receive salvation the next step is the process of sanctification. We are admonished to resist sin and pursue good. Basically persevering toward the character of Christ. But some believers do not pursue sanctification. They may just exist believing salvation is good enough...they may not want to put forth the effort...they may believe there is no rush...they may be untaught etc.

There is a difference between a Christian who is pursuing holiness and one who has given themselves over to a sinful lifestyle. The fruit they produce, their relationship with God and (wo)men, the benefits of God etc.

A person who has given themselves over to a sinful lifestyle is not abiding in God...is not knowing Him...is not working out their soul salvation...is not in right relationship with God. Haven't we all been there at some point? (The backslider, the sister overtaken in a fault etc.) I know i have. And thank God for His grace...giving me time to get it right (or even the desire to get it right!). But at some point of living a life saturated (that is a life settled and satisfied) in sin the question should arise as to whether you (general you) are truly saved. (once again I cannot put a number on it because only God and that person know the true intent of their hearts to judge this)

 

[CoilyFields]

@Crown - I'm not talking about how long it takes to eradicate or get rid of sin. And you're right when you said, "we cannot take part of Hebrews 10:26," so let's just ponder on the whole verse of Hebrews 10:26:

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins..."

Now, let's use a simple example:

Let's say you read in God's word "Thou shalt not bear false witness" (Exodus 20:16; Exodus 23:1; Deutoronomy 5:20) You have received this knowledge of truth that it is against God's law to bear false witness or to tell a lie.

Now, after you receive this knowledge of truth, you decide to tell a lie...no matter what type of lie it is, no matter how long you've been a Christian, whatever the case may be... you tell a lie AFTER you have received the knowledge of truth.

Now because you have told a lie after receiving the knowledge of truth, you have sinned wilfully. Wilful sin is when you commit a sin that you KNOW is wrong, regardless of how much you claim to love and know Jesus, no matter how often you go to church or read your bible or pray.

Now because you sinned wilfully by telling a lie after receiving the knowledge of truth that you should not bear false witness, there remains no more sacrifice for sins.

So what is this verse talking about when it says, "there remains no more sacrifice for sins?" Let's look at Hebrews 10:10-12...

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God..."

Jesus is our sacrifice for sins once you confess and believe. He became the sacrifice for sins by shedding his blood and dying on the cross. The blood of bulls and goats could not take away our sins. Neither can the priests or ministers. The sacrifice of Jesus Christ is the only sacrifice that forgives sins.

So since this Hebrews 10:26 verse is saying that if we tell a lie after we know it is wrong, that sin is no longer forgiven. Telling a lie is just one example. We must see all sin in this way. Wilful sin regardless of what that sin is, how often you've done it, etc. is not forgiven.

By your above explanation then 1 John 1:9 is untrue...or only applies to unbelievers. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

The power of Jesus' sacrifice was that it not only covered past and present sins, but also our future sins (He just did not have to keep dying on the cross everytime we sinned like the priests had to keep standing and offering sacrifices.

Hebrews 10:29 explanation...

a. For if we sin willfully: To sin willfully is defined in Hebrews 10:29. It speaks of someone who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace. It is a knowing, deliberate rejection of Jesus’ great work for us on the cross.
i. Sin willfully: In a sense, every sin is a “willful sin.” But here, the writer to the Hebrews speaks of something much more severe and relevant to these discouraged Jewish Christians who contemplated a retreat from a distinctive Christianity and a return to Judaism with its sacrificial system. This is turning your back on Jesus.
b. There no longer remains a sacrifice for sins: If Jesus’ sacrifice for sin is rejected, there remains no other sacrifice that can cleanse.

If we do this sin of willfully abandoning the faith...we have eradicated the only sacrifice for sins (Jesus).

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

Here is what I also beleive ...

2 Timothy 3:16-17 "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

 

[Crown]

Thanks for your response Crown and your observation regarding Hebrews 10:26. Would you consider yourself to have come to the knowledge of the truth?

Carolina18
I am learning and advancing by the grace of the Father.

 

[Crown]

@Crown - I'm not talking about how long it takes to eradicate or get rid of sin. And you're right when you said, "we cannot take part of Hebrews 10:26," so let's just ponder on the whole verse of Hebrews 10:26:

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins..."

...
So since this Hebrews 10:26 verse is saying that if we tell a lie after we know it is wrong, that sin is no longer forgiven. Telling a lie is just one example. We must see all sin in this way. Wilful sin regardless of what that sin is, how often you've done it, etc. is not forgiven.

Sorry, Hebrews 10:26 is not saying this.
This is why I prefer to study the whole context :
(I will skip on some verses, no need to be too long)

Heb. 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
35 So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded.
36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.
38 And, “But my righteous one will live by faith.
And I take no pleasure in the one who shrinks back.”
39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.

Paul is talking about some so called Christians who willfully reject the Faith to return to their old pleasures.

Remind of this:

Luke 9:62 Jesus replied, “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.”

Why would Christ say to His disciples:
Mk 14: 38 Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

And to His Church :
Rev. 3: 19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.

What child is reprimanded?

 

[Carolina18]

Carolina18
I am learning and advancing by the grace of the Father.

So, does that mean you have the knowledge of the truth, at least on those parts where you have been shown what is right and wrong by God, or are you not there yet at all i.e. you don't know the truth?