Do you take the Bible literally?

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

It doesn't say he is an Angel, it says ArchAngel but it does not mean what we think it means. He is not an angel. It is not an opinion, it is not my opinion. We learn who is who by studying the words and how they are interchangeable, or how they apply to both God and Jesus and Michael and Jesus are one in the same. God calls Jesus God. The word ‘angel’ is used many ways in the Bible. King David was called an angel and he was a human.
The Bible tells us that it is Michael who intercedes for God's people in Daniel 12:1. Jesus is also known as our Intercessor. When this archangel, the general of the Lord's army appeared to Joshua, Joshua took off his shoes and worshipped him.
We also read in the book of Jude that it is Michael who resurrects Moses. And of course, Jesus is the Resurrection. We also read that the Lord is going to descend with the voice of the archangel, and we know clearly that Jesus is the one who's going to descend. An angel means ‘a messenger’. Cherubim and seraphim are specific creatures that we often call angels. Michael, the Archangel, is a title for the highest messenger who is as God. That’s what that means. When it says, the Lord Himself comes down from heaven with the voice of the Archangel it means the Lord comes with the voice of the greatest messenger. Directly from the Greek, that’s what it’s saying. And if you go to Daniel 12:1 it says: At that time shall Michael stand up, the great Prince that stands for the children of thy people.

Blazing how does hebrews chapter one cone into play with this?

Jesus also gave the 12 power to heal the sick and raise the dead this authority is not limited to the 12 we also have the same power but it does not make us the resurrection. I will post scriptures later.

 

[blazingthru]

Blazing how does hebrews chapter one cone into play with this?

Jesus also gave the 12 power to heal the sick and raise the dead this authority is not limited to the 12 we also have the same power but it does not make us the resurrection. I will post scriptures later.

Hebrews 1:13-14 and Hebrews 2:16 which seem to say that Jesus is not an Angel?

Jesus is not a created Angel. He is God himself, and member of the heavenly Godhead, who bears a message much like angels bear messages. In both Hebrew and Greek the word Angel means “messenger.” In a messianic prophecy speaking about Jesus we read that he is the “messenger” of the covenant.

Malachi 3:1
(1) Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Note that “the Lord,” even the “messenger of the covenant” shall suddenly come to his temple. It was Jesus who came to the temple (John 1:10-11, 14, 2:14-21). The word translated “messenger” here is mainly translated “angel” elsewhere in the scriptures. Yet this does not mean that Jesus is an angel, but that as an angel, he came with a message.

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

It doesn't say he is an Angel, it says ArchAngel but it does not mean what we think it means. He is not an angel. It is not an opinion, it is not my opinion. We learn who is who by studying the words and how they are interchangeable, or how they apply to both God and Jesus and Michael and Jesus are one in the same. God calls Jesus God. The word ‘angel’ is used many ways in the Bible. King David was called an angel and he was a human.
The Bible tells us that it is Michael who intercedes for God's people in Daniel 12:1. Jesus is also known as our Intercessor. When this archangel, the general of the Lord's army appeared to Joshua, Joshua took off his shoes and worshipped him.
We also read in the book of Jude that it is Michael who resurrects Moses. And of course, Jesus is the Resurrection. We also read that the Lord is going to descend with the voice of the archangel, and we know clearly that Jesus is the one who's going to descend. An angel means ‘a messenger’. Cherubim and seraphim are specific creatures that we often call angels. Michael, the Archangel, is a title for the highest messenger who is as God. That’s what that means. When it says, the Lord Himself comes down from heaven with the voice of the Archangel it means the Lord comes with the voice of the greatest messenger. Directly from the Greek, that’s what it’s saying. And if you go to Daniel 12:1 it says: At that time shall Michael stand up, the great Prince that stands for the children of thy people.

Blazing

That is what we do every Thursday nights on the prayer line, anyone who prays on behalf of someone else is an Intercessor in fact, all Christians are called to be intercessors. (1 Samuel 12:23) “As for me, far be it from me that I should sin against the LORD by failing to pray for you” .

Again the 12 Apostles were given power to heal the sick and raise the dead, also Jesus said that we would do greater works that He, so this tells me that I (we) can also raise the dead by His power and authority (now whether my (our) faith is ‘there’ that’s another topic for another day).

As far as Messengers go John the Baptist was a messenger of God but not an angel (Luke 7:27) This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. (emphasis mine) and so was Malachi the very meaning of his name means messenger of God.

Why is Jesus heralding his own desencion (sp?) that makes no sense to me. Michael is AS God but he is not God.

(Joshua 5:14 -15) And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? 15And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so. (emphasis mine)

Joshua takes off his shoes only after the messenger tells him where he is standing is holy, I believe that this ‘worship’ is reverential notice when he says ‘my lord’, lord is in lower case.

I’ll do some more research and come back later…

 

[blazingthru]

Blazing

That is what we do every Thursday nights on the prayer line, anyone who prays on behalf of someone else is an Intercessor in fact, all Christians are called to be intercessors. (1 Samuel 12:23) “As for me, far be it from me that I should sin against the LORD by failing to pray for you” .

Again the 12 Apostles were given power to heal the sick and raise the dead, also Jesus said that we would do greater works that He, so this tells me that I (we) can also raise the dead by His power and authority (now whether my (our) faith is ‘there’ that’s another topic for another day).

As far as Messengers go John the Baptist was a messenger of God but not an angel (Luke 7:27) This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. (emphasis mine) and so was Malachi the very meaning of his name means messenger of God.

Why is Jesus heralding his own desencion (sp?) that makes no sense to me. Michael is AS God but he is not God.

(Joshua 5:14 -15) And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? 15And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so. (emphasis mine)

Joshua takes off his shoes only after the messenger tells him where he is standing is holy, I believe that this ‘worship’ is reverential notice when he says ‘my lord’, lord is in lower case.

I’ll do some more research and come back later…

In every case when confronting an angel, That angel will not accept worship, That Angel cannot accept worship, because worship belongs to God and God alone. Jesus accepted worship in the form of the Angel of God.

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

I'm not saying that Jesus is and angel, I'm saying that Michael is and Angel though a higher ranking angel he is an angel no less, therefore he can not be Jesus.



Hebrews 1


1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

11They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

12And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

13But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Hebrews 1:13-14 and Hebrews 2:16 which seem to say that Jesus is not an Angel?

Jesus is not a created Angel. He is God himself, and member of the heavenly Godhead, who bears a message much like angels bear messages. In both Hebrew and Greek the word Angel means “messenger.” In a messianic prophecy speaking about Jesus we read that he is the “messenger” of the covenant.

Malachi 3:1
(1) Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Note that “the Lord,” even the “messenger of the covenant” shall suddenly come to his temple. It was Jesus who came to the temple (John 1:10-11, 14, 2:14-21). The word translated “messenger” here is mainly translated “angel” elsewhere in the scriptures. Yet this does not mean that Jesus is an angel, but that as an angel, he came with a message.

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

And your thoughts on 'Messenger', 'Intercessor' and 'Resurrection'???

In every case when confronting an angel, That angel will not accept worship, That Angel cannot accept worship, because worship belongs to God and God alone. Jesus accepted worship in the form of the Angel of God.

 

[blazingthru]

Thank you for taking the time to answer .

Even though the Trinity is not a term found in the Bible, it is the term applied to a Biblical truth (i.e., that there is one God who exists as three distinct Persons).

I would also put forth that Michael is an archangel, and Jesus is God--thus they cannot be one and the same (as an angel is not and cannot be God).

What do you know about Archangels? What do we know about Archangels. are they angels? Archangel means Chief Messenger, it doesn't mean angel. Jesus is The Angel of God, he has more names then just one in fact, his name on earth is Jesus but we have no ideal his name in heaven. If we make it to heaven do you not know we will no longer be known as our earthly names, we will be given new names. Lets reason for a moment, Could Jesus be called Jesus when he came for Moses body, No he could not because Jesus was Earths Messiah. That time had not come yet. This information does not lead to salvation and really is just for studying purposes.
this majestic and mysterious being, sometimes called Michael, sometimes the angel of the Lord, sometimes the commander of the Lord’s army, veiling His divinity and appearing in the form of a humble angel. Yet this same enigmatic being has the power, authority and attributes that belong only to God. He evicts the devil from heaven; He resurrects the dead; He intercedes for the saints; He judges and then stands, launching the great time of trouble. He redeems the saints and receives their worship. He offers us a new name.

 

[Galadriel]

What do you know about Archangels? What do we know about Archangels. are they angels? Archangel means Chief Messenger, it doesn't mean angel.

An angel is a messenger, a heavenly spirit in God's service. An archangel is a high-ranking angel. We also know that there are fallen or apostate angels (demons), among them Lucifer. Judaism has always recognized Michael and Gabriel as angels (and NEVER confused/identified Michael with God). Christians understood this as well.

The belief that Michael = Jesus has its roots in an early 4th century heresy known as Arianism.

Jesus is The Angel of God, he has more names then just one in fact, his name on earth is Jesus but we have no ideal his name in heaven.

Jesus is not an angel, nor an archangel. Jesus Christ is the Lord God, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. Jesus is adored as God and has always existed--He has no beginning and is consubstantial with the Father.

If we make it to heaven do you not know we will no longer be known as our earthly names, we will be given new names. Lets reason for a moment, Could Jesus be called Jesus when he came for Moses body, No he could not because Jesus was Earths Messiah. That time had not come yet. This information does not lead to salvation and really is just for studying purposes.

Before Jesus became incarnate and was born on earth, He was (and is) God. He was not the archangel Michael.

this majestic and mysterious being, sometimes called Michael, sometimes the angel of the Lord, sometimes the commander of the Lord’s army, veiling His divinity and appearing in the form of a humble angel.

Again, this is Arianism. Jesus Christ is True God, and through the Incarnation He is True God and True Man.

 

[blazingthru]

An angel is a messenger, a heavenly spirit in God's service. An archangel is a high-ranking angel. We also know that there are fallen or apostate angels (demons), among them Lucifer. Judaism has always recognized Michael and Gabriel as angels (and NEVER confused/identified Michael with God). Christians understood this as well.

The belief that Michael = Jesus has its roots in an early 4th century heresy known as Arianism.


Jesus is not an angel, nor an archangel. Jesus Christ is the Lord God, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. Jesus is adored as God and has always existed--He has no beginning and is consubstantial with the Father.


Before Jesus became incarnate and was born on earth, He was (and is) God. He was not the archangel Michael.


Again, this is Arianism. Jesus Christ is True God, and through the Incarnation He is True God and True Man.

The Holy Spirit convicts us of all truths, but we can refuse to believe it. We are convicted as soon as we hear it. Convicted for or against. If you choose to believe that Michael was not Jesus. That is your choice, you are free to believe what you choose, I based my belief on the scripture but again this has nothing to do with Salvation. As far as Heresy is concerned I really do not have an opinion. I choose to believe the bible and not man's teachings at all. All men will have to give an account for why they believe what they believe, I hate to find myself short, because I followed after men's teachings.

 

[fifi134]

Michael is referred to in Jude verse 9 as an archangel, and is thus a created being. Jesus, on the other hand, came into form as a human being, but He always existed. We know this from John 1:1. John 1 also talks about Christ being there during creation, thus He is not a created being. They are absolutely not the same people.

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

This can make a very interesting study spinoff "Who or What are Angels", hierachy of angels and what is their purpose, do they all have wings etc.,

 

[Poohbear]

It doesn't say he is an Angel, it says ArchAngel but it does not mean what we think it means. He is not an angel. It is not an opinion, it is not my opinion. We learn who is who by studying the words and how they are interchangeable, or how they apply to both God and Jesus and Michael and Jesus are one in the same. God calls Jesus God. The word ‘angel’ is used many ways in the Bible. King David was called an angel and he was a human.
The Bible tells us that it is Michael who intercedes for God's people in Daniel 12:1. Jesus is also known as our Intercessor. When this archangel, the general of the Lord's army appeared to Joshua, Joshua took off his shoes and worshipped him.
We also read in the book of Jude that it is Michael who resurrects Moses. And of course, Jesus is the Resurrection. We also read that the Lord is going to descend with the voice of the archangel, and we know clearly that Jesus is the one who's going to descend. An angel means ‘a messenger’. Cherubim and seraphim are specific creatures that we often call angels. Michael, the Archangel, is a title for the highest messenger who is as God. That’s what that means. When it says, the Lord Himself comes down from heaven with the voice of the Archangel it means the Lord comes with the voice of the greatest messenger. Directly from the Greek, that’s what it’s saying. And if you go to Daniel 12:1 it says: At that time shall Michael stand up, the great Prince that stands for the children of thy people.

blazingthru

Angel = messenger of God, personal helpers

Archangel = a messenger with a higher rank, chief messenger, protectors of entire mankind

Daniel 12:1 is not saying that Michael was the intercessor like Jesus. He just stood up for the children of God when they were in trouble.

Jesus being our Intercessor means that we can draw near to God through Him. Jesus speaks to God on our behalf.

Isaiah 53:12 says "He himself bore the sin of many and interceded for the transgressors". Transgressors are basically lawbreakers.

John 14:6, Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth and the life; no one can come to the Father except through me."

Michael did not and could not do any of these things that Jesus has done or currently does.

In Jude 1:9, Michael did not resurrect Moses... he disputed about Moses' body with the devil. Disputed means to argue, debate, discuss, etc. Not resurrect (raise from the dead/bring to life).

Just because Michael is mentioned as a chief prince in Daniel 10:13 does not mean he was Jesus. There were a lot of chief princes and great princes back in the bible days. We even have them now in other countries. Princes are just male members of a royal family. Anyone can be that.

Angels and archangels have all types of different tasks that are similar to those of Jesus...they are performers of acts of justice and power, healers, peacemakers, leaders, messengers, keepers, watchers, guardians, and more!

Jesus Christ was MORE than just a mere messenger. He was MORE than all these types of angels combined. Jesus is LORD and SAVIOR! None of these angels or archangels were that.

 

[Poohbear]

It doesn't say he is an Angel, it says ArchAngel but it does not mean what we think it means. He is not an angel. It is not an opinion, it is not my opinion. We learn who is who by studying the words and how they are interchangeable, or how they apply to both God and Jesus and Michael and Jesus are one in the same. God calls Jesus God. The word ‘angel’ is used many ways in the Bible. King David was called an angel and he was a human.
The Bible tells us that it is Michael who intercedes for God's people in Daniel 12:1. Jesus is also known as our Intercessor. When this archangel, the general of the Lord's army appeared to Joshua, Joshua took off his shoes and worshipped him.
We also read in the book of Jude that it is Michael who resurrects Moses. And of course, Jesus is the Resurrection. We also read that the Lord is going to descend with the voice of the archangel, and we know clearly that Jesus is the one who's going to descend. An angel means ‘a messenger’. Cherubim and seraphim are specific creatures that we often call angels. Michael, the Archangel, is a title for the highest messenger who is as God. That’s what that means. When it says, the Lord Himself comes down from heaven with the voice of the Archangel it means the Lord comes with the voice of the greatest messenger. Directly from the Greek, that’s what it’s saying. And if you go to Daniel 12:1 it says: At that time shall Michael stand up, the great Prince that stands for the children of thy people.

I see that you got this information from this site: http://www.amazingfacts.org/radio/b...-archive/ctl/playmedia/mid/731/mdid/2274.aspx

Be careful of what you read from random sites that think they know what they are talking about and wanna prove something in the bible that's not even there.

Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael were Archangels... not Jesus Christ.

 

[Poohbear]

Worshiping the Commander
In Revelation, Michael is portrayed as leading the heavenly hosts, or armies, in the war against the rebellious Lucifer that took place there. "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels" (Revelation 12:7). Here the term "dragon" is a symbolic name for Satan, the leader of evil (verse 9), so it is very safe to assume that Michael is another name for Jesus, the embodiment and leader of good. But there is more evidence.

Just as Israel was preparing for its first battle after crossing into the Promised Land, Joshua had an encounter with an unusual warrior. "And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the Lord am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? And the captain of the Lord's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so" (Joshua 5:13-15).

Not only did Joshua worship this being, but the heavenly captain received his worship. If he had been a mere angel, he would have rebuked Joshua just like the angel rebuked John for trying to worship him (see Revelation 19:10; 22:8, 9).

blazingthru

This Captain of the host of the Lord was NOT St. Michael the Archangel. No where in Joshua 5 does it even mentioned Michael. The Captain was God himself as a manifestation of Jesus Christ. Joshua did not fall down and worship Michael, he fell down and worshipped God. Joshua was in preparation as an appointed commander of Israel. He would not take off his shoes and bow down for another being other than God as someone so focused on God.

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

Yes, thanks Pooh I've been meaning to ask about the body of Moses being resurrected...

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

It's like saying that Jesus is Melchisedec (sp) I can see similarities but they are not one in the same ...

 

[CoilyFields]

As I've been taught there are times in the old testament where Jesus appears and is then referred to as THE angel of the lord. (And with the acceptance of worship we know it is Him with Joshua). Remember that in the OT they had not been "introduced " to God the son, at least not by name.
Other times angels did deliver messages and did deeds on behalf if God but they were not Jesus. So Michael and Gabriel were archangels but were not Jesus.

 

[auparavant]

When Lazarus was woken from the grave, there was much talk about it. People came to see him, others plotted to kill him.
Matthew 27:51-54
King James Version (KJV)
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.


.

Are you confusing she'ol and paradise or the grave as the literal hell? Paradise is not the punished side of the beyond. I think paradise is she'ol, or holding place. Jesus went there to bring out souls after his sacrifice. I nkow a lot of people don't believe in purgatory, but it's a holding place of saints that are cleansed from residual sin and its effects (unrepented?) and fully cleansed before they enter heave. The grave is the holding place of the physical body. Death is the result of sin for all. Our bodies die. There is also a spiritual death and those souls go to the punishing hell or hades. Dying isn't the end. Heaven does exist and so does hell, even purgatory.

 

[Laela]

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

^^That's one of my favourite scriptures

 

[Crown]

It doesn't say he is an Angel, it says ArchAngel but it does not mean what we think it means. He is not an angel. It is not an opinion, it is not my opinion. We learn who is who by studying the words and how they are interchangeable, or how they apply to both God and Jesus and Michael and Jesus are one in the same. God calls Jesus God. The word ‘angel’ is used many ways in the Bible. King David was called an angel and he was a human.
The Bible tells us that it is Michael who intercedes for God's people in Daniel 12:1. Jesus is also known as our Intercessor. When this archangel, the general of the Lord's army appeared to Joshua, Joshua took off his shoes and worshipped him.
We also read in the book of Jude that it is Michael who resurrects Moses. And of course, Jesus is the Resurrection. We also read that the Lord is going to descend with the voice of the archangel, and we know clearly that Jesus is the one who's going to descend. An angel means ‘a messenger’. Cherubim and seraphim are specific creatures that we often call angels. Michael, the Archangel, is a title for the highest messenger who is as God. That’s what that means. When it says, the Lord Himself comes down from heaven with the voice of the Archangel it means the Lord comes with the voice of the greatest messenger. Directly from the Greek, that’s what it’s saying. And if you go to Daniel 12:1 it says: At that time shall Michael stand up, the great Prince that stands for the children of thy people.

No, we don't read what you are saying : you are making assumptions.

Thank you for trying to answer my questions!
No need for me to do what is already done by the ladies.

 

[Crown]

Does your denomination have an interpretation for why did they leave Enoch at home?

@Crowne,

You will have to ask Jesus that question as I have already provided the reason for the other two. It was not for Jesus's benefit only, but for those looking on. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Matt 18:20. They validated that Jesus is the Christ. God said Matthew 18:16
New King James Version (NKJV)
16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established

As far as the SDA teachings or concerned, I must say there are no teachings other then the bible. The Bible only and you can hold any bible you want too except other religious bibles. Ellen White has tons of Books that are great for studying and I really like them. However, I don't have time to read them, I collected all of them and plan to purchase 53 of them since they are on the kindle for 10.00 dollars. It is a personal choice if you choose to read her books, they are a wonderful help in explaining text. They really are and its beneficial for everyone. Nevertheless, it's just for studying. It's in not to be preached from or be the end-all of anything it is a help, and she say so in her books. I don't know what else to say. I think SDA has a bad rep because no one takes the time to understand it, but then I have been an Adventist for almost four years, and I am still learning why it not widely received but for me, it is my home. I plan to stay until Jesus comes again.

As you are talking about EW, I am amazed by the change made about the interpretation of 1844.

Maybe you are a too young SDA to understand what I am saying.

 

[blazingthru]

Michael is referred to in Jude verse 9 as an archangel, and is thus a created being. Jesus, on the other hand, came into form as a human being, but He always existed. We know this from John 1:1. John 1 also talks about Christ being there during creation, thus He is not a created being. They are absolutely not the same people.

Yes an ANGEL is a created being, no where in the bible does it say Michael who is like God, an angel. We assume it because the title, but we have no other proof that Michael is a Angel other then that word Archangel, yet this Michael who is like God does the same thing as Jesus. Jesus is called Angel of God. it is Jesus who walked with Abraham and discussed that he will soon be a father and it was Jesus who told Abraham that he was going to destroy Sodom. Yet he was called Angel of God. No man, NO MAN has seen God at no time. But seeing Jesus is seeing God and yet Jesus was called an Angel. We know that he was with God from the very beginning. He is the living word.

 

[blazingthru]

blazingthru

Angel = messenger of God, personal helpers

Archangel = a messenger with a higher rank, chief messenger, protectors of entire mankind

Daniel 12:1 is not saying that Michael was the intercessor like Jesus. He just stood up for the children of God when they were in trouble. Jesus is our intercessor we are the children. Acts 7: 55 But he, full of the Holy Spirit and controlled by Him, gazed into heaven and saw the glory (the splendor and majesty) of God, and Jesus standing at God’s right hand;
56 And he said, Look! I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing at God’s right hand!

Jesus being our Intercessor means that we can draw near to God through Him. Jesus speaks to God on our behalf.

Isaiah 53:12 says "He himself bore the sin of many and interceded for the transgressors". Transgressors are basically lawbreakers.

John 14:6, Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth and the life; no one can come to the Father except through me."

Michael did not and could not do any of these things that Jesus has done or currently does. They are one and the same.

In Jude 1:9, Michael did not resurrect Moses... he disputed about Moses' body with the devil. Disputed means to argue, debate, discuss, etc. Not resurrect (raise from the dead/bring to life). Really? does this makes since or is this out of order. Why would an angel come and argue with Satan, so then what happen how did Moses enter into heaven? Not only that there wasn't an argument. Michael said the Lord Rebuke you and that was that.

Just because Michael is mentioned as a chief prince in Daniel 10:13 does not mean he was Jesus. There were a lot of chief princes and great princes back in the bible days. We even have them now in other countries. Princes are just male members of a royal family. Anyone can be that. I think since it is in the bible its important for us to know we just do not have a simple book this book is for our own personal growth and it enable us to know how we can be saved, how we can depend on God for our everything. How we can over come and whats it all about. But the interesting question here is who is the King of Persia it is not a human. I would not categorize the Chief of Prince the same as humans not by any stretch of the imagination.

Angels and archangels have all types of different tasks that are similar to those of Jesus...they are performers of acts of justice and power, healers, peacemakers, leaders, messengers, keepers, watchers, guardians, and more! I would not agree by no means. Angels are servants and messengers

Jesus Christ was MORE than just a mere messenger. He was MORE than all these types of angels combined. Jesus is LORD and SAVIOR! None of these angels or archangels were that.

No one said he was less then that. But he is and was the Angel of the Lord and so has that title been given to Michael.

 

[blazingthru]

As I've been taught there are times in the old testament where Jesus appears and is then referred to as THE angel of the lord. (And with the acceptance of worship we know it is Him with Joshua). Remember that in the OT they had not been "introduced " to God the son, at least not by name.
Other times angels did deliver messages and did deeds on behalf if God but they were not Jesus. So Michael and Gabriel were archangels but were not Jesus.

My apologies I don't recall at no time reading that Gabriel was an Archangel there is only one Chief. So Gabriel was an Angel but in the text they say the man Gabriel, of course we know he was an Angel. But the humans had no doubt that he was an angel that looked liked a man but when encountered with the Angel of the Lord there was fear and trembling. They all confessed that they were seeing God or felt that they have seen God and they have lived.

 

[blazingthru]

I see that you got this information from this site: http://www.amazingfacts.org/radio/b...-archive/ctl/playmedia/mid/731/mdid/2274.aspx

Be careful of what you read from random sites that think they know what they are talking about and wanna prove something in the bible that's not even there.

Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael were Archangels... not Jesus Christ.

Of course I would not agree, this is actually a great site for formative information that you can sit down and research yourself. I don't agree that those names mentioned above are Archangels since it means chief and there is only one Chief.

 

[divya]

Yes, I do take the Bible literally. Can't wait to join the discussion but am waiting to get my internet installed. The phone isn't going to cut it for this discussion.

 

[Shimmie]

Yes, I do take the Bible literally. Can't wait to join the discussion but am waiting to get my internet installed. The phone isn't going to cut it for this discussion.

divya... I hear you on the 'phone'.

Typing from my phone takes forever and a day plus a minute.

I try to type while commuting to/from work, but it seems that I reach my destination before my first sentence is complete.

And you know how my sentences are... not that they are long or anything like that.

 

[divya]

divya... I hear you on the 'phone'.

Typing from my phone takes forever and a day plus a minute.

I try to type while commuting to/from work, but it seems that I reach my destination before my first sentence is complete.

And you know how my sentences are... not that they are long or anything like that.

Not long at all.

I don't mind typing so much but cutting and pasting drives me nuts! Lol