Dietary Laws

[LaFemmeNaturelle]

I don't have much time to be quite as elaborate as I want to be but I have a quick question about the dietary laws in the bible. Are we supposed to follow the laws of the old testament or not?

What does the Bible say about what foods we should eat (kosher)? Are there foods a Christian should avoid?

Is Romans 14 literally talking about food? I know alot of words were mis-translated and everything. I'm going to study this topic deeper when I get a chance but wanted to know what you ladies thought.

 

[Guitarhero]

Yes, it is. Remember the Jewish prohibitions...under the new covenant, it's not what you put into your body that literally defiles you, it's what you put into your heart. Does that mean that Jewish dietary laws are invalid? No, for Jews, it's very much valid. But for christians, they don't have to follow them since they are not Jews. The issue might be preserving the temple as holy since G-d resides there and one can do that through eating healthy. But that doesn't mean that any types of meat are wrong, cooked veggies versus raw, etc. That's up to the individual.

"Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, Who is in you, Whom you have received from God? ... So use every part of your body to give glory back to God..." 1 Corinthians 6:19-20

http://healthinspirationministry.com/bible_verses_on_health.htm

 

[LaFemmeNaturelle]

So Jews do not have the new testament in their...torah? Which is why they still follow those laws? You may not know this, but why do SDA follow those laws? Whenever I ask one of my friends, they don't really give an answer. And if you're bored, you can throw in your understanding of women cutting their hair and wearing pants.

I've tried to study the last two topics but I still don't have a clear understanding of it and I have a friend who's constantly in my ear telling me not to cut my hair (the women in her family also only wears skirts)

 

[Guitarhero]

No, they are Jews...they do not believe in Jesus...scriptures end with II Chronicles. The Tenakh is from Genesis to Malachi. SDA are christians. My cousin is Jewish and never wears pants. I know of christian women who never wear pants...but I don't feel obligated in any way to wear skirts. I don't cut my hair because of my culture, not my religious beliefs but know of women who, by their religious beliefs (christian), don't cut.

 

[dicapr]

Maybe I can shed some light on why SDA follow the dietary laws. We believe that the laws in leviticus are separated into 2 types of laws-cerimonial dealing with sacrifice and laws of God given for better life. We believe that when Jesus died on the cross, cerimonial laws dealing with sacrifices for sin were done away with. Laws, such as the 10 commandments and dietary laws were not apart of the sacrificial system so we believe that they are relevent. SDA are not kosher as Jews are-such as eating kosher meat ect. But we do believe that the dietary laws were given out to teach us self control and better health. I don't believe that eating against dietary laws is a salvation issue, but it seems that it does lead to better health. SDAs are some of the longest living indivudals in the world.

 

[Poohbear]

Mark 7:14-23

14And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:

15There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

16If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

17And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

18And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

19Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

20And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

21For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

23All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

 

[divya]

Yes, I believe we are supposed to follow the dietary laws of the Old Testament. As dicapr explained, God gave different types of laws in the Scriptures.

1) The Ten Commandments (the moral law)
2) Dietary Laws
3) Sacrificial/Ceremonial Law

The only laws that were nailed to the cross were the sacrificial/ceremonial laws, as all of those laws pointed towards Christ being our sacrificial lamb on the cross. Those other laws are still valid for us today and evermore.

God gives us laws to uplift us as people. He tells us in 1 Peter 1:16 "Be ye holy; for I am holy." Holiness has to do with our mind and body. To show how God's principles are unchanging, it is important to remember that God gave His laws to man before the Israelites. In Genesis 26:5, God described Abraham saying that He "obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

Remember that we have a specific example showing that the clean and unclean categories were given before the Israelites, in the days of Noah. God told Noah how many of each clean and unclean animal should be brought on the ark. It shows that God laid out certain principles for those who follow Him from the very beginning.

The Israelites were a "chosen" people. They were chosen to live those principles as a nation, so others could see just how just and sound God's laws are...so that they would want to follow Him. That being said, God's laws are valid for us today because He loves us and want the very best for us.

Just to touch on the verses noted in the thread, Romans 14 is continuing the theme of foods being clean or unclean because they were offered to idols.This was an ongoing debate between Jewish Christians and non-Jewish Christians in multiple areas of the New Testament. Paul spoke about it earlier in Romans and then again in Corinthians. Many people don't know that "unclean" can either deal with food that is not fit for consumption as food at all or deal with food that is ceremonially unclean. Romans 14 deals with the latter.

 

[divya]

Mark 7:14-23

14And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:

15There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

16If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

17And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

18And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

19Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

20And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

21For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

23All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Mark 7 is dealing with uncleanliness due to eating bread without washing hands, not with food that clean/unclean. Reading from the beginning of the chapter, the Bible states:

Mark 7:1-13

1Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.

2And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.

3For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.

4And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.

5Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

12And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;

13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

In fact, God drew a clear distinction here between commandments that He gave to people as opposed to traditions of men. Dietary principles are given by God and therefore are not to be rejected, according to verse 9.

 

[LaFemmeNaturelle]

Thanks everyone. I'm making a note of everything so I can study it later. But can someone also address Romans 10:4, Galatians 3:24-26 and Ephesians 2:15. I assume those scriptures are why many people choose to ignore many of the laws of the old testament. So what exactly do those scriptures mean?

 

[Shimmie]

I don't have much time to be quite as elaborate as I want to be but I have a quick question about the dietary laws in the bible. Are we supposed to follow the laws of the old testament or not?

What does the Bible say about what foods we should eat (kosher)? Are there foods a Christian should avoid?

Is Romans 14 literally talking about food? I know alot of words were mis-translated and everything. I'm going to study this topic deeper when I get a chance but wanted to know what you ladies thought.

I'll be honest with you, it's not so much the law but our bodies response to the forbidden foods in the Old Testament speaks volumes.

Now I know that we've been given 'free license' (so to speak) in the New Testament, so in that respect it is not counted as sin, but just look at all of the news and health reports and these diets are not that of the Old Testament.

Meats were 'roasted' not fried. ---
No pork or shell fish --- (I can't eat shrimp There's something about it that makes me nauseous)
Fruit, Vegetables and Grains
Sprouts --- (I love these)
Olive Oil (cold pressed) Endless health benefits We all call on EVOO here.

Well each of you know the lists and the healthy differences of food selections.

 

[divya]

I'll do my best to deal with each...

Romans 10:4

This deals with issue of righteousness by faith. It's a really beautiful subject. This is a good summary of my belief on the subject. Sorry so long but it is very good, with lots of Scripture for reference.

Christ the End of the Law

In Rom. 10:4 we read as follows: "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." Before showing what this text means, it may be well to briefly show what it does not mean. It does not mean that Christ has put an end to the law, because (1) Christ Himself said concerning the law, "I am not come to destroy." Matt. 5:17. (2) The prophet said that instead of destroying it, the Lord would "Magnify the law and make it honorable." Isa. 42:21. (3) The law was in Christ's own heart: "Then said I, Lo, I come; in the volume of the book it is written of me, I delight to do thy will, O my God; yea, thy law is within my heart." Ps. 40:7, 8. And (4) since the law is the righteousness of God, the foundation of His government, it could not by any possibility be abolished. See Luke 16:17.

The reader must know that the word "end" does not necessarily mean "termination." It is often used in the sense of design, object, or purpose. In 1 Tim. 1:5 the same writer says, "Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned." the word here rendered "charity" is often rendered "love," and is so rendered in this place in the New Version. In 1 John 5:3 we read, "This is the love of God, that we keep his commandments," and Paul himself says that "love is the fulfilling of the law." Rom. 13:10. In both these texts the same word (agape) is used that occurs in 1 Tim. 1:5. Therefore we say that this text means, Now the design of the commandment (or law) is that it should be kept. Everybody will recognize this as a self-evident fact.

But this is not the ultimate design of the law. In the verse following the one under consideration, Paul quotes Moses as saying of the law that "the man that doeth those things shall live by them." Christ said to the young man, "If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." Matt. 19:17. Now since the design of the law was that it should be kept, or, in other words, that it should produce righteous characters, and the promise is that those who are obedient shall live, we may say that the ultimate design of the law was to give life. And in harmony with this thought are the words of Paul, that the law "was ordained to life." Rom. 7:10.

But "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God," and "the wages of sin is death." Thus it is impossible for the law to accomplish its design in making perfect characters and consequently giving life. When a man has once broken the law, no subsequent obedience can ever make his character perfect. And therefore the law which was ordained unto life is found to be unto death. Rom. 7:10.

If we were to stop right here with the law unable to accomplish its purpose, we should leave all the world under condemnation and sentence of death. Now we shall see that Christ enables man to secure both righteousness and life. We read that we are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus." Rom. 3:24. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Rom. 5:1. More than this, He enables us to keep the law. "For he [God] hath made him [Christ] to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." 2 Cor. 5:21. In Christ, therefore, it is possible for us to be made perfect--the righteousness of God--and that is just what we would have been by constant and unvarying obedience to the law.

Again we read, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. . . . For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh; that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit." Rom. 8:1-4.

What could not the law do? It could not free a single guilty soul from condemnation. Why not? Because it was "weak through the flesh." There is no element of weakness in the law; the weakness is in the flesh. It is not the fault of a good tool that it cannot make a sound pillar out of a rotten stick. The law could not cleanse a man's past record and make him sinless; and poor, fallen man had no strength resting in his flesh to enable him to keep the law. And so God imputes to believers the righteousness of Christ, who was made in the likeness of sinful flesh, so that "the righteousness of the law" might be fulfilled in their lives. And thus Christ is the end of the law.

To conclude, then, we have found that the design of the law was that it should give life because of obedience. All men have sinned and been sentenced to death. But Christ took upon Himself man's nature and will impart of His own righteousness to those who accept His sacrifice, and finally when they stand, through Him, as doers of the law, He will fulfill to them its ultimate object, by crowning them with eternal life. And so we repeat, what we cannot too fully appreciate, that Christ is made unto us "wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption."

Christ the End of the Law

 

[divya]

Galatians 3:24-26 actually touches on the same subject as Romans 10. Christ is the who justifies us. The law cannot take away sin. It only pointed out for us as unbelievers where we have gone wrong and why we need to accept Jesus Christ. Having accepted Jesus Christ, we are "children of God by faith in Christ Jesus" as said in verse 26. That way we can have life everlasting in Him.

If you look earlier in the chapter, it confirms the function of the law and what Christ does for us.

8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

So here we see the Scripture tell us that the law cannot disannul - it cannot be done away. The law shows us our sinfulness, where we stray from God. Verse 10 says that we are cursed if we do not keep the law. What is the curse of the law? Death, of course. Romans 6:23 says "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Just like in the first above, Galatians 3:21 says tells us that the law cannot give life. It points out our sin, and the punishment is death. It says that if the law could give life, we could become righteous through the law. But we know that we cannot be made righteous through the law. Therefore, under the law - we are cursed. Cursed to die as Romans 3:23 states.

But Jesus died for our sins so that we can have eternal life. Jesus alone has the power to save and give us life, not the law. When we believe in Him, His righteousness is given in place of our righteousness because our righteousness is as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6). So in all, the law serves to point us to Jesus, who can save us from the curse of death.

Romans 8

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[divya]

Ephesians 2:15 - Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

The ordinances is a term used in Scripture to refer to the sacrificial/ceremonial law. These are the laws also discussed in Colossians 2:14-16, that contained certain foods and drinks, holy days, new moons and sabbaths.
"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days"

These verses correspond with Ezekiel 45:17 - “And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.”

The sacrificial/ceremonial laws all pointed to Christ and how He would reconcile humanity to God. Now that Christ came and died for our sins, those particular laws are blotted out. There is no need to sacrifice a lamb because Christ was our sacrificial Lamb. If you would like, we can go through the symbolism in the sacrificial/ceremonial law to show how it all pointed to Christ coming to die for our sins.

(NOTE: The sabbaths in the ordinances are Passover, Pentecost and also Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashanah etc. Those are the only sabbaths done away with because they are part of the ordinances (sacrificial and ceremonial law).The weekly Sabbath in the Ten Commandments is still valid and should be kept holy)

 

[Crown]

I don’t have time to read the other posts now.

I remember, Divya posting about the dietary laws and my answer was something like: Paul made it very clear : we are free from the dietary laws!
I am now more careful about the understanding of those epistles.

I have come to the conclusion and belief : better follow the dietary laws!
*These laws were given to mankind before the choice of a people;
*Jesus followed the dietary laws;
*God does not change, if He said something is an abomination, this thing is an abomination;
*The punishment described in Is. 66 is for all, Jews or not :
Is. 66.15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 66.16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 66.17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. 66.18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

 

[Mahalialee4]

Your Quote: " Remember that we have a specific example showing that the clean and unclean categories were given before the Israelites, in the days of Noah. God told Noah how many of each clean and unclean animal should be brought on the ark. It shows that God laid out certain principles for those who follow Him from the very beginning."Unquote



Absolutely

 

[Mahalialee4]

Putting into CONTEXT...Regarding Romans 14. The Context Issue was:
1. Being a ‘meat eater’ or a ‘vegetarian’
2. The issue they were having was not about whether it was okay or not to eat ‘unclean foods’.
The same as we have it today. Nothing new under the sun.

________________________________________
1Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. 2For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, EATETH HERBS. 3Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

15But if thy brother be grieved with THY MEAT,, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with THY MEAT, for whom Christ died

20For MEAT destroyeth not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. 21It is good neither to EAT FLESH, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak23And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
There are some among us today who are SWORN VEGETARIANS and others WHO WOULD NOT GIVE UP THEIR RIGHT TO EAT ‘CLEAN MEATS’. There are also NAZARITES among us, who would not give up their locks (like Samson) because it is a VOW THEY MADE TO GOD, just as some women would never cut their hair, because of a VOW.
The bottom line is that the Scripture allows for both those who choose to eat meat and those who choose to abstain from meat and only eat vegetables. Not everyone has the desire or faith to be a vegetarian. We are not to be JUDGING one another re: these choices. If we were to invite a brother or sister to dinner, knowing they are a vegetarian, we would be offending and stumbling them if we insisted on them eating the meat on the table. Likewise, if a brother or sister went to the home of an avowed ‘vegetarian’, it would be unloving and insulting to insist that they ‘put some meat on the table, you know I like my meat!’ Love would have you ‘forgo the meat for that meal’. The same applies to those who like to partake of WINE and those who do not. The meat or the vegetables or the wine will not make you more or less righteous!

13”Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. 14I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. 16Let not then your good be evil spoken of: 17For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. 18For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men. 19Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.”

Has this happened before in the Scriptures? A DECISION NOT TO EAT MEAT. Yes. A DECISION NOT TO DRINK WINE. Yes.
Daniel 1: 3”And the king spake unto Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring certain of the children of Israel, and of the king's seed, and of the princes; 4Children in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans. 5And the king appointed them a daily provision of the king's meat, and of the wine which he drank: so nourishing them three years, that at the end thereof they might stand before the king. 6Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah: 7Unto whom the prince of the eunuchs gave names: for he gave unto Daniel the name of Belteshazzar; and to Hananiah, of Shadrach; and to Mishael, of Meshach; and to Azariah, of Abednego.
8But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's MEAT, nor with the WINE which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself. 9Now God had brought Daniel into favour and tender love with the prince of the eunuchs. 10And the prince of the eunuchs said unto Daniel, I fear my lord the king, who hath appointed your MEAT and your DRINK: for why should he see your faces worse liking than the children which are of your sort? then shall ye make me endanger my head to the king. 11Then said Daniel to Melzar, whom the prince of the eunuchs had set over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, 12Prove thy servants, I beseech thee, ten days; and let them give us PULSE (OF VEGETATION) to eat, and water to drink. 13Then let our countenances be looked upon before thee, and the countenance of the children that eat of the portion of the king's MEAT: and as thou seest, deal with thy servants.
14So he consented to them in this matter, and proved them ten days. 15And at the end of ten days their countenances appeared fairer and fatter in flesh than all the children which did eat the portion of the king's MEAT.

16Thus Melzar took away the portion of their MEAT, and the WINE that they should drink; and gave them PULSE.

WE CAN CHOOSE TO EAT MEAT. We can choose to refuse MEAT, OR WINE, AS WELL.


The Scriptures state that there was NO MAN GREATER THAN JOHN THE BAPTIST.
WHAT WAS HIS FOOD? Just as it was prophecied.
Matthew 3:4 John's clothes were made of camel's hair, and he had a leather belt around his waist. HIS FOOD WAS LOCUSTS AND WILD HONEY.

 

[divya]

Here's a good write up on Romans 14:

Those who assume the subject of Romans 14 is a retraction of God's law regarding clean and unclean animals must force this interpretation into the text because it has no biblical foundation. The chapter itself shows that the discussion concerned meat sacrificed to idols.

Verse 2 contrasts the person who "eats only vegetables" with the one who believes "he may eat all things"— meat as well as vegetables. Verse 6 discusses eating vs. not eating and is variously interpreted as referring to fasting (not eating or drinking), vegetarianism (consuming only vegetables) or eating or not eating meat sacrificed to idols.

Verse 21 shows that meat offered to idols was the underlying issue of this chapter: "It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak." The Romans of the day commonly offered both meat and wine to idols, with portions of the offerings later sold in the marketplace.

The Life Application Bible comments on verse 2: "The ancient system of sacrifice was at the center of the religious, social, and domestic life of the Roman world. After a sacrifice was presented to a god in a pagan temple, only part of it was burned. The remainder was often sent to the market to be sold. Thus a Christian might easily—even unknowingly—buy such meat in the marketplace or eat it at the home of a friend.

"Should a Christian question the source of his meat? Some thought there was nothing wrong with eating meat that had been offered to idols because idols were worthless and phony. Others carefully checked the source of their meat or gave up meat altogether, in order to avoid a guilty conscience."

Paul explains in 1 Corinthians 8 that the main concern for a Christian is to not defile his own conscience or the conscience of other Christians. Jewish Christians especially might have been inclined to feel contaminated by anything related to idolatry. But because an idol cannot, by itself, render anything pure or defiled, a person's conscience, not the idol, is the real issue.

So what is the point of Paul's instruction about eating or not eating in Romans 14? Depending on their consciences, early believers had several choices. Those wishing to be sure of avoiding meat sacrificed to idols could choose to eat only vegetables or fast—avoid food altogether—when faced with the prospect of consuming foods of suspicious background.

For those whose consciences were not troubled by eating meat purchased in local markets just because it might have been ceremonially offered to idols, that option was open to them with one important restriction. They were (especially at group meals where offenses were more likely to occur) to consider first the conscience of others who were present, to be careful to give no offense.

Within this context, said Paul, "let each be fully convinced in his own mind" (verse 5) because "whatever is not from faith is sin" (verse 23).

There is more on the site: Booklet >The New Covenant: Does It Abolish God's Law? > Does Romans 14 Abolish Laws on Unclean Meats?

 

[Mahalialee4]

sorry double post.

 

[Mahalialee4]

Paul was dealing with four groups primarily, but, This was the """'vegetarian"""' group I was referring to re: Romans 14. This group in some ways remind me of "Hutterite" (Canadian) or 'Amish' types, that segregate themselves and grow their own TERRIFIC TASTY VEGETABLES ( I buy at the Farmer's Market can you tell? ) and they live communal lives and come to town to sell their vegetables etc. at the outdoor markets. When you read through you will see what I mean. Anyway they were very ascetic it appears, and many later non Hebrew groups sprang from this.

ESSENES:
essene • Modern Essene List The Teachings of Essene

“In the first century there were three sects of Judaism: the Pharisees, Saducees and THE ESSENES.
. The Essenes were mystics who many believe were the authors of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Many scholars believe that Jewish Kabbalah had its roots at among the Essenes. The Essenes were fore-runners of Christianity. There is much evidence that Yochanan (John) the immerser (the Baptist) came from an Essene background and that many of the original Jewish followers of Yeshua (Jesus) were Essenes. 134”

Vegetarian Essenes? Volume 52 Number 3, May/June 1999
by Spencer P.M. Harrington
Twenty-eight spartan dwellings on the edge of the Ein Gedi oasis in southern Israel may have been the home of a community of Essenes, the Jewish sect thought by some to have collected the Dead Sea Scrolls...The Essenes are thought to have flourished between the second century B.C. and the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem by the Romans in A.D. 70. Ancient sources describe them as a tightly knit group of men, possibly celibate, who practiced communal ownership of property. "...While the site yielded a fairly rich collection of pottery vessels, glass sherds, and seven coins from the early Roman and Byzantine eras, it is most remarkable for ITS LACK OF ANIMAL BONES. "Although we worked carefully, sifting everything, we didn't find any," says Hirschfeld, adding that the settlers might have been VEGETARIAN. Although Josephus noted that the dietary restrictions of the Essenes were stringent, the NEARBY village appears not to have been bound by vegetarianism. "We've found 4,000 animal bones in the village of Ein Gedi," he notes.

Vegetarianism in the Bible
The Nazarene Way of Essenic Studies
~ Vegetarianism in the Bible ~
"By Denis Giron
They really get heavy here!
Biblical Vegetarianism / Vegetarianism in the Bible


THE ANCIENT ESSENES
...Descriptions of an ancient Essene community offer an exciting solution for today’s isolation, spiritual hunger and stressful times. Dr. Edmond Bordeaux Szekely, a principal translator of Essene materials before the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, describes the Essene Community:

“The Essenes lived on the shores of lakes and rivers, away from cities and towns, and practiced a communal way of life, sharing equally in everything. They were mainly agriculturists and arbor culturists, having a vast knowledge of crops, soil and climatic conditions which enabled them to grow a great variety of fruits and vegetables in comparatively desert areas and with a minimum of labor...
They spent much time in study, both of ancient writings and special branches of learning, such as education, healing and astronomy. …..In the use of plants and herbs for healing man and beast they were likewise proficient.
They lived a simple regular life, rising each day before sunrise to study and commune with the forces of nature, bathing in cold water as a ritual and donning white garments. After their daily labor in the fields and vineyards they partook of their meals in silence, preceding and ending it with prayer. They were ENTIRELY VEGETARIAN in their eating and never touched flesh foods nor fermented liquids..."

They really get heavy here!
Biblical Vegetarianism / Vegetarianism in the Bible



I am thankful the Most High gave us some great choices!
I MUST ADMIT: I LUV VEGETABLES, BUT I AM THANKFUL FOR MEAT!!!! Definitely NOT ESSENE material, so far! LOL

 

[Laela]

I understand Romans 14 to address how we treat one another. God's Law (Commandments) won't ever change and God is not man, that He should lie. The passage speaks against religious acts and strict adherence to the Law, so much so that they trump the weightier matters of the Law. It's about what's more important in God's eyes, with dietary laws not carrying as much weight, as what's in our hearts. Doesn't mean we neglect parts of God's Law (now through Christ Jesus) God forbid.. it's all about balance -- of Body, Mind and Soul.

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

I don't have much time to be quite as elaborate as I want to be but I have a quick question about the dietary laws in the bible. Are we supposed to follow the laws of the old testament or not?

What does the Bible say about what foods we should eat (kosher)? Are there foods a Christian should avoid?

Is Romans 14 literally talking about food? I know alot of words were mis-translated and everything. I'm going to study this topic deeper when I get a chance but wanted to know what you ladies thought.

 

[Guitarhero]

Within a Jewish context and facing the New Covenant, the foods St. Paul had a vision of would have been off-limits not only for temple worship but within Jewish dietary law or kashrus. Neither Greek nor Jew...it's Christ within and good clean living making you clean...not the prohibited animals according to kashrus.

 

[Poohbear]

Mark 7 is dealing with uncleanliness due to eating bread without washing hands, not with food that clean/unclean. Reading from the beginning of the chapter, the Bible states:

In fact, God drew a clear distinction here between commandments that He gave to people as opposed to traditions of men. Dietary principles are given by God and therefore are not to be rejected, according to verse 9.

I took into consideration the whole chapter Mark 7. I know the first part was talking about how the Pharisees found a problem with the disciples eating with unwashed hands since it went against tradition. But did you read what JESUS (not the Pharisees) said in Mark 7:18-20? It's not what goes into the belly of the man that defiles a man. It's what comes from within...which he gives a list of sins in verse 21 that can defile a man. He did not say that eating meat defiles a man.

Defile means to make foul, dirty, or unclean. Jesus said that purging all meats does not keep a man from being defiled. He makes his point by stating a question in verses 18-19: "Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?"

In verse 9 when Jesus said, "Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition" he was talking about how the Pharisees rather follow traditions and laws rather than the commandments of God pertaining love and avoiding sin, unrighteousness, and hypocrisy.