What the majority do...

[Rainbow Dash]

Maybe those links can help you :

Pagan Christianity?
http://www.amazon.com/Pagan-Christianity-Exploring-Church-Practices/dp/141431485X

Sorry, I can not find this book in English over the net.
But if you read French, here urls :
http://ebook-chretiens.com/Documents/christianismepaganise.pdf
http://www.actes2-42.net/viola.tdm.htm

About Christmas, Easter...
We will always find Christians reasoning : we are celebrating Christ!

Did Christ command those celebrations?

Let His Holy Presence guide you!

@ the bolded....some Christians act like we were commanded to celebrate Easter and Christmas. We celebrate Christ daily in our walk with Him and when we come together in His Name.

The Pharisees exalted the doctrines and commandments of men over God's word and it is still happening today. He was persecuted for this. He did not bow to their man-made traditions but exalted God's Word and will. They hated Him for it, just as He suffered and was put down, so will we when stand for Him.

 

[naturalgyrl5199]

@SimplyBlessed,

I've been having some of the same feelings as you. These feelings started about 5 years ago with me though. Holidays started to seem so superficial. I understand the tradition behind it of families getting together to spend time with their loved ones, but other than that, I never seen these holidays such as Easter, Thanksgiving, and Christmas as celebrations of Jesus. People would try to make it that way, but I just never felt that way in my heart. It was a weird feeling.

And right now, I still have hangups about a lot of the main Christian beliefs...

1. The concept of sin.... Some Christians believe we will never stop sinning until we die as long as you ask for forgiveness of sin over and over you are forgiven. Then there are some Christians, which isn't many, who believe that you should stop sinning once you are a true believer. They call them sinless perfectionist. I also wonder what wrongdoings are truly sins and what wrongdoings are not sins that people make up to be sins just to cover their secret sins through good works.

2. The concept of salvation... are we truly once saved always saved when we go up in front of the church and confess our belief in Christ and get baptized, or is everyone working toward their salvation til the end when Christ returns? What things truly determine whether we go to heaven or not?

3. I also wonder what things in the bible are purely examples to keep in mind or take note of that doesn't necessarily apply to today's time, and what things in the bible are commandments to obey and follow now and in the future. (Some people say the Bible is literal and true, some say its a guide for living...you have to decide what YOU believe--- whichever one you choose, someone else will say its wrong anyways) And I wonder how does keeping the law or commandments have bearing on our souls when it comes to deciding whether we are going to Heaven or Hell when we die. (Personally, I've decided I am going to do my darn-est to keep the commandments...I am not perfect and I will sin again....I even ask forgiveness for the sins I may have committed and didn't even realize --sins of omisson,--and turn away forever....I believe God honors the ones who fall (sins) 1000 times and gets back up (turns away) 1000 times than one who only falls (sins) once or twice and never gets back up again. This understanding has given me peace about my salvation. You have no control over God's decision. Only yours, so do your best to RUN away from sin and be at peace) It's like people pick and choose what sins are wrong and what sins are okay to do. Like how are people who don't go to church, don't tithe, shack up, are homosexuals and murderers going to hell but not the fornicator, gossiper, liar, cheater, etc.? (Why wrack your brain over something you have no control over? The only thing that matters is what YOU DO and how you run YOUR FAMILY! What others do is meaningless at the end of the day and has no bearing on you.)

I could go on about this but those are the basic ideas that fuel my confusion.

Poohbear & SimplyBlessed:

Are you questioning the Bible? Christianity in general? or are you questioning PEOPLE'S interpretation of the Bible or how someone else practices Christianity?

If you are questioning the Bible, then definitely pray for better understanding. The understanding you receive is what YOU will be held accountable for....and I think this is the thing people FORGET. Fasting and praying is a good way to focus on God 100% and gain understanding of the things you have concerns about. And they are legit concerns!

If you are questioning OTHER PEOPLE'S understanding and interpretation of the Bible then girl DO NOT lose any sleep over it. Because its THEIR understanding, and you are not subject to what OTHERS THINK. But whatever GOD decrees to YOU AND YOUR family, you MUST hold true to that. That may mean setting yourself apart from family members....So you may get flack but why worry about it? Sometimes its just our season to be away from others. Also, don't waste time arguing others interpretation, because they believe it came from God and there is NOTHING you can say to change their mind.

 

[auparavant]

You are right to feel uneasy about Easter and Christmas. These are pagan holidays.
Easter is actually the worship of Ishtar. She is the "goddess" of fertility. This is why we have rabbits and eggs. Rabbits produce offspring more than any other animal.

Christmas is to celebrate the birth of the Babylonian queen of heaven's son. December 25th is believed to be the birth date of Nimrod, who became known as Baal.

If you type in "Easter pagan" and "Christmas pagan" into your google search-box, you will get a hefty amount of information.

It would be better to type in Easter and Christmas into the thousands of years of church history (online and book format) to get an understanding about the nature of Christ, His death and resurrection and His Second Coming. To say that Easter and Christmas are pagan is to say that Jesus' birth, death and resurrection is pagan. Context is everything.


To throw away Jesus' birth is akin to saying we don't need salvation. To discount the importance of easter is to say to the churches that communion is not necessary.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

It would be better to type in Easter and Christmas into the thousands of years of church history (online and book format) to get an understanding about the nature of Christ, His death and resurrection and His Second Coming. To say that Easter and Christmas are pagan is to say that Jesus' birth, death and resurrection is pagan. Context is everything.


To throw away Jesus' birth is akin to saying we don't need salvation. To discount the importance of easter is to say to the churches that communion is not necessary.

Just because one chooses not to celebrate Easter and Christmas does not mean they are throwing away the birth of Christ. You can celebrate His birth, burial, and resurrection daily if you so choose. This is why Colossians 2 tells us to "let no one judge us in keeping holy days...." My point is we are not bound to celebrate as the world or traditions of men tells us. Christ never told us to celebrate His birth on December 25th nor His resurrection around the time of March equinox. Communion can be done as often in rememberance of Him. You don't have to wait for certain dates to do communion, celebrate His birth, burial, and resurrection. If one chooses to set certain dates then they are free to do so.

 

[CoilyFields]

As concerning holidays (and other traditions) these verses should put it in perspective for all of us (some have been quoted already):

Colossians 2:16
"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath."

Romans 14:1-23
"As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. ... "

Romans 14:5-6, 13-14
"One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean."



So the division over these kinds of things shouldnt even be an issue because it doesnt have any bearing on our salvation or our central purpose. But whether you celebrate holidays or not just make sure that whatever traditions you adhere to you do from the heart. God despised those who simply did things (or refrained from doing things) out of habit.


Isaiah 29:13

13 Then the Lord said,

“Because this people draw near with their words
And honor Me with their lip service,
But they remove their hearts far from Me,
And their reverence for Me consists of tradition learned by rote,

 

[Poohbear]

naturalgyrl5199 - My post was not meant for you to take personally. It was basically a vent on how I have felt over the years with respect to the Holy Bible and Christian religion as a whole.

I currently believe the Bible is the true Word of God and I see it as a guide for living. I really do not take everything literal as in applying everything that happened back then to today's time...I see some things as examples and pictures of how things should be, if that makes any sense. For example, animal sacrifices... we don't need to do animal sacrifices for sins because of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross for the punishment of our sins.

I do believe we cannot stop sinning physically in the flesh, but we must realize that there is only death in the law. There is no life. And the law is laid out in the bible in order to show us how filthy and unrighteous we truly are in the flesh.

Hebrews 10:26 says, "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins."

James 2:10 says, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

I do not agree that God honors the one who falls/sins and then gets back up more than the one that does not fall/sin as much and doesn't get back up. I don't see how you find peace in that statement. I believe that our salvation is based on our confession and heart-felt belief in Jesus as Lord and that God raised him from the dead(Romans 10:9-10). How many times we sin and get back up does not matter. And I never felt like I needed nor wanted control over God's decision. I believe God is sovereign and only He gets the credit and glory in what happens in this world.

And it wasn't a matter of trying to wrack my brain over something I have no control over... it was a matter of denying myself and seeking the truths of God's Word. I for so long depended on the baptist church for my beliefs, and the teaching just was not cutting it for me as I got older and experienced more sin. I kept thinking about how can I repent of a sin that I continue to do? And people would say that repentance is a daily thing and that God forgives us over and over, and I just could not believe that lie anymore.

My questioning was of everything...the Bible, Christianity, and people's interpretation. After exploring other's interpretations and comparing them with each other, I can actually see where different interpretations come from. Most interpretations come from hidden agendas in order to keep the "man-made church" afloat (I am not talking about the Church which is the true Body of Christ that the bible speaks of).

I also never felt like I was subjected to what other people think. That's why I questioned it all to begin with. And I guess you don't worry or never worry about things? I guess you get a good nights sleep every night? To me, faith and figuring out what I believe is something serious to me. I am not about to just be gullible and believe anything and everything someone tells me.

And being away from others is what I actually ended up doing a couple of years ago. I do not care about getting flack from others which is something I did receive and still do sometimes mainly from my father because I left his church. I just did not agree with the teachings/beliefs.

And I don't waste my time arguing with others. I only discuss, ask questions, try to understand the other person, and share my views now. And I don't try to change people's minds because I am not totally set on my beliefs just yet. However, yesterday I studied with a woman online which has really helped me understand the Bible even more and what to truly believe.

(Some people say the Bible is literal and true, some say its a guide for living...you have to decide what YOU believe--- whichever one you choose, someone else will say its wrong anyways)

(Personally, I've decided I am going to do my darn-est to keep the commandments...I am not perfect and I will sin again....I even ask forgiveness for the sins I may have committed and didn't even realize --sins of omisson,--and turn away forever....I believe God honors the ones who fall (sins) 1000 times and gets back up (turns away) 1000 times than one who only falls (sins) once or twice and never gets back up again. This understanding has given me peace about my salvation. You have no control over God's decision. Only yours, so do your best to RUN away from sin and be at peace)

(Why wrack your brain over something you have no control over? The only thing that matters is what YOU DO and how you run YOUR FAMILY! What others do is meaningless at the end of the day and has no bearing on you.)


Poohbear & SimplyBlessed:

Are you questioning the Bible? Christianity in general? or are you questioning PEOPLE'S interpretation of the Bible or how someone else practices Christianity?

If you are questioning the Bible, then definitely pray for better understanding. The understanding you receive is what YOU will be held accountable for....and I think this is the thing people FORGET. Fasting and praying is a good way to focus on God 100% and gain understanding of the things you have concerns about. And they are legit concerns!

If you are questioning OTHER PEOPLE'S understanding and interpretation of the Bible then girl DO NOT lose any sleep over it. Because its THEIR understanding, and you are not subject to what OTHERS THINK. But whatever GOD decrees to YOU AND YOUR family, you MUST hold true to that. That may mean setting yourself apart from family members....So you may get flack but why worry about it? Sometimes its just our season to be away from others. Also, don't waste time arguing others interpretation, because they believe it came from God and there is NOTHING you can say to change their mind.

 

[naturalgyrl5199]

@naturalgyrl5199 - My post was not meant for you to take personally. It was basically a vent on how I have felt over the years with respect to the Holy Bible and Christian religion as a whole.

I currently believe the Bible is the true Word of God and I see it as a guide for living. I really do not take everything literal as in applying everything that happened back then to today's time...I see some things as examples and pictures of how things should be, if that makes any sense. For example, animal sacrifices... we don't need to do animal sacrifices for sins because of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross for the punishment of our sins.

I do believe we cannot stop sinning physically in the flesh, but we must realize that there is only death in the law. There is no life. And the law is laid out in the bible in order to show us how filthy and unrighteous we truly are in the flesh.

Hebrews 10:26 says, "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins."

James 2:10 says, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

I do not agree that God honors the one who falls/sins and then gets back up more than the one that does not fall/sin as much and doesn't get back up. I don't see how you find peace in that statement. (I understand....But then can the prostitute who has had many sins ever be saved? Can the liar ever be saved? SCRATCH THAT: Can the one who confesses before the Lord all his sins, then a year later backslides once, should he waste time trying to repent for a slip-up? Or is he automatically doomed to hell? Does it mean the backslider lied from day one? I do believe no matter how many times you sin, ***IF YOU REPENT...with your WHOLE heart...and the LORD knows the difference...we humans do NOT***....you will be forgiven!) I believe that our salvation is based on our confession and heart-felt belief in Jesus as Lord and that God raised him from the dead(Romans 10:9-10). How many times we sin and get back up does not matter. And I never felt like I needed nor wanted control over God's decision. I believe God is sovereign and only He gets the credit and glory in what happens in this world.
(I need to clarify: What I was saying is that, people will sin. Whenever you sin, repent and run away from it. I definitely am not talking about committing the SAME SIN 1000 times....no way! Thats reprobate mind! That was all. Being truly delivered from sin means you DO NOT commit that sin again. It doesn't mean you won't commit another (different) sin again. That's what I meant)

And it wasn't a matter of trying to wrack my brain over something I have no control over... it was a matter of denying myself and seeking the truths of God's Word. I for so long depended on the baptist church for my beliefs, and the teaching just was not cutting it for me as I got older and experienced more sin. (Was the teachings leading you into sin? It may have just been your youth. You were raised in that church, so its normal to get of age and yearn for something deeper, and look for those missing links!) I kept thinking about how can I repent of a sin that I continue to do? And people would say that repentance is a daily thing and that God forgives us over and over, and I just could not believe that lie anymore. (Good question. I don't think a person is truly delivered from that sin if they continue to commit THAT SIN. Maybe they were not talking about the SAME sin....but people don't clarify every statement every time. I would have asked them that....)

My questioning was of everything...the Bible, Christianity, and people's interpretation. After exploring other's interpretations and comparing them with each other, I can actually see where different interpretations come from. Most interpretations come from hidden agendas in order to keep the "man-made church" afloat (I am not talking about the Church which is the true Body of Christ that the bible speaks of). (I understand that too....I will tell you what....You may find that church you love, after a while, they may say something you don't 100% agree with....but also remember---you'll be looking forever before you find a church that agrees and believes everything you agree with.....But its a journey, just a means to an end...)

I also never felt like I was subjected to what other people think. That's why I questioned it all to begin with. And I guess you don't worry or never worry about things? I guess you get a good nights sleep every night? To me, faith and figuring out what I believe is something serious to me. I am not about to just be gullible and believe anything and everything someone tells me. (I definitely sleep well at night MOST DAYS. Ex: Sometimes I come back in prayer and after reflection of my day I realize I may have said something to a subordinate that may have hurt them or said something out of the way. I may have had a sinful thought or mean thought, and I will get down and repent and I won't get sleep sometimes until I do because I am convicted and I listen to what I am being told. Then I seek forgiveness from that employee....And yes if you feel convicted you should believe all of what you have been told.....But here is one way to think of it: You initial upbringing introduced Christ into your life, and your maturity and deeper understanding and desire to be closer to the Lord rather than just a superficial knowledge is taking you to another level! Taking it serious is the right thing to do.)

And being away from others is what I actually ended up doing a couple of years ago. I do not care about getting flack from others which is something I did receive and still do sometimes mainly from my father because I left his church. I just did not agree with the teachings/beliefs. (Do you feel your father is leading his flock astray? Do you believe he is leading them INTO sin rather than away from it?)

And I don't waste my time arguing with others. I only discuss, ask questions, try to understand the other person, and share my views now. And I don't try to change people's minds because I am not totally set on my beliefs just yet. (Ah! This is why you have so many questions!) However, yesterday I studied with a woman online which has really helped me understand the Bible even more and what to truly believe. (It takes time. You will get there!)

Poohbear! ^^^^ Oh no no no!
I didn't take it personally. I was just trying to see where you were coming from Reading through this response helped me get an understanding of the heart of your concerns

 

[naturalgyrl5199]

As concerning holidays (and other traditions) these verses should put it in perspective for all of us (some have been quoted already):

Colossians 2:16
"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath."
(THANK YOU!)
Romans 14:1-23
"As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. ... " (Yes, yes, and yes!)

Romans 14:5-6, 13-14
"One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean." (I am just screaming!!!!----I Love this! The word of the Lord is so plain, so true!)



So the division over these kinds of things shouldnt even be an issue because it doesnt have any bearing on our salvation or our central purpose. But whether you celebrate holidays or not just make sure that whatever traditions you adhere to you do from the heart. God despised those who simply did things (or refrained from doing things) out of habit.
(Screams: YESSSS!)

Isaiah 29:13

13 Then the Lord said,

“Because this people draw near with their words
And honor Me with their lip service,
But they remove their hearts far from Me,
And their reverence for Me consists of tradition learned by rote,

CoilyFields: I just can't AMEN enough on this one...I can only hit "Thanks" once!

 

[Poohbear]

Poohbear! ^^^^ Oh no no no!
I didn't take it personally. I was just trying to see where you were coming from Reading through this response helped me get an understanding of the heart of your concerns

naturalgyrl5199 - Oh okay. My responses are in blue:

(I understand....But then can the prostitute who has had many sins ever be saved? Can the liar ever be saved? SCRATCH THAT: Can the one who confesses before the Lord all his sins, then a year later backslides once, should he waste time trying to repent for a slip-up? Or is he automatically doomed to hell? Does it mean the backslider lied from day one? I do believe no matter how many times you sin, ***IF YOU REPENT...with your WHOLE heart...and the LORD knows the difference...we humans do NOT***....you will be forgiven!)

A prostitute who has had many sins can be saved. A liar can be saved. As long as they realize that trying to keep the law/commandments is not what is going to save them or grant them salvation. Matthew 16:26 says, "For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" Also, the wages of sin is death and the gift of God is eternal life (Romans 6:23).

A person who confesses before the Lord all his sins then a year later backslides is not automatically doomed to hell. 1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." However, he must realize that there is no life in keeping the law or commandments. We cannot depend on the law to get us into Heaven or keep us out of Hell. No, it does not mean the backslider lied from day one. Yes, if you repent and do not do that sin again, you are forgiven and that is true repentance. But Jesus is the only way to salvation and eternal life. John 14:6 says, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

(I need to clarify: What I was saying is that, people will sin. Whenever you sin, repent and run away from it. I definitely am not talking about committing the SAME SIN 1000 times....no way! Thats reprobate mind! That was all. Being truly delivered from sin means you DO NOT commit that sin again. It doesn't mean you won't commit another (different) sin again. That's what I meant)

I see what you mean, but this is the thing... James 2:10 says, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." Basically, If you commit one sin, it's as if you have committed them all. For example, let's say Tom used to be a habitual liar. He repented of that sin and has never ever done again. However, the next day, he decides to steal from the store. A week later, he has premarital sex. Him committing those two sins is as if he lied, a sin he had repented of. No sin is greater than another. The number of times we sin doesn't make it any worse than someone who doesn't sin as much. Sin leads to death. We can only be delivered from sin through Jesus Christ.

(Was the teachings leading you into sin? It may have just been your youth. You were raised in that church, so its normal to get of age and yearn for something deeper, and look for those missing links!)

I wouldn't say the teachings lead me to sin, but it made it seem like it was okay to sin in way, even though they preached against sin. It's really hard to explain. It's basically what a lot of churches are teaching these days. The teach "once saved always saved" and that "we're forgiven of all sin past present future". They make it like staying away from "certain sins" or made up sins is what saves you. They do not realize what the true saving grace in Jesus Christ. They think going to "church" and doing church activities gains favor with God while you can go gossip behind your neighbor's back, however, they won't admit that it's gossip, they'll say it's Christian discussion. If you're a homosexual, don't tithe, are a woman preacher, then you're hellbound... but if you verbally abuse your wife and children that is okay since you're a forgiven sinner.

To me, true salvation is Jesus Christ...confession/witnessing and belief in His birth, death, burial, and resurrection... salvation is not in the law. As Hebrews 10:26 says, wilful sin is not forgiven, only sins of ignorance are forgiven, so we cannot depend on keeping the law for salvation. Now this does not mean we should just live any way we want to, if you want to be blessed on this earth and in this physical life, then it's best to use the the commands of God as a guide for living right.

(Good question. I don't think a person is truly delivered from that sin if they continue to commit THAT SIN. Maybe they were not talking about the SAME sin....but people don't clarify every statement every time. I would have asked them that....)

I agree that a person is not truly delivered from a sin that they continue to commit. However, if they commit a different sin, it's still as if they did that previous sin. Sin is sin to God. No sin is greater than another.

(I understand that too....I will tell you what....You may find that church you love, after a while, they may say something you don't 100% agree with....but also remember---you'll be looking forever before you find a church that agrees and believes everything you agree with.....But its a journey, just a means to an end...)

I'm not necessarily looking for a church that I 100% agree with. I know there are flaws in churches as well as good things in some churches. I just don't see the need for me to waste my time being in a church building with other Christians that I have no fellowship or assembly with. People always wanna use Hebrews 10:25 "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together" as a way to scare people into coming to church but that verse doesn't mean that. They don't realize that you can be sitting up in a church and not be assembled with the people in that church. And that's how I felt. I do better with one-on-one fellowship or small group bible studies with people.

(I definitely sleep well at night MOST DAYS. Ex: Sometimes I come back in prayer and after reflection of my day I realize I may have said something to a subordinate that may have hurt them or said something out of the way. I may have had a sinful thought or mean thought, and I will get down and repent and I won't get sleep sometimes until I do because I am convicted and I listen to what I am being told. Then I seek forgiveness from that employee....And yes if you feel convicted you should believe all of what you have been told.....But here is one way to think of it: You initial upbringing introduced Christ into your life, and your maturity and deeper understanding and desire to be closer to the Lord rather than just a superficial knowledge is taking you to another level! Taking it serious is the right thing to do.)

That's great that you sleep well most nights. It's good to pray and reflect on things. And yes, my initial upbringing did introduce me to Christ and I am thankful for that. Right now, I am just trying to prepare myself to be a better witness for Christ rather than worry about the superficial things. I just want people to be aware of those superficial things that may entice us or put us in fear of living.

(Do you feel your father is leading his flock astray? Do you believe he is leading them INTO sin rather than away from it?)

I'm not really sure how to answer that question because my father says a lot of mixed up things. He doesn't see sin as all the same. He has a hierarchy of some sins being worse than others. And he has made some things out to be sins that really aren't sins. That's a different story.

 

[naturalgyrl5199]

naturalgyrl5199 - Oh okay. My responses are in blue:

(I understand....But then can the prostitute who has had many sins ever be saved? Can the liar ever be saved? SCRATCH THAT: Can the one who confesses before the Lord all his sins, then a year later backslides once, should he waste time trying to repent for a slip-up? Or is he automatically doomed to hell? Does it mean the backslider lied from day one? I do believe no matter how many times you sin, ***IF YOU REPENT...with your WHOLE heart...and the LORD knows the difference...we humans do NOT***....you will be forgiven!)

A prostitute who has had many sins can be saved. A liar can be saved. As long as they realize that trying to keep the law/commandments is not what is going to save them or grant them salvation. Matthew 16:26 says, "For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" Also, the wages of sin is death and the gift of God is eternal life (Romans 6:23).

A person who confesses before the Lord all his sins then a year later backslides is not automatically doomed to hell. 1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." However, he must realize that there is no life in keeping the law or commandments. We cannot depend on the law to get us into Heaven or keep us out of Hell. No, it does not mean the backslider lied from day one. Yes, if you repent and do not do that sin again, you are forgiven and that is true repentance. But Jesus is the only way to salvation and eternal life. John 14:6 says, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

(I need to clarify: What I was saying is that, people will sin. Whenever you sin, repent and run away from it. I definitely am not talking about committing the SAME SIN 1000 times....no way! Thats reprobate mind! That was all. Being truly delivered from sin means you DO NOT commit that sin again. It doesn't mean you won't commit another (different) sin again. That's what I meant)

I see what you mean, but this is the thing... James 2:10 says, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." Basically, If you commit one sin, it's as if you have committed them all. For example, let's say Tom used to be a habitual liar. He repented of that sin and has never ever done again. However, the next day, he decides to steal from the store. A week later, he has premarital sex. Him committing those two sins is as if he lied, a sin he had repented of. No sin is greater than another. The number of times we sin doesn't make it any worse than someone who doesn't sin as much. Sin leads to death. We can only be delivered from sin through Jesus Christ.

(Was the teachings leading you into sin? It may have just been your youth. You were raised in that church, so its normal to get of age and yearn for something deeper, and look for those missing links!)

I wouldn't say the teachings lead me to sin, but it made it seem like it was okay to sin in way, even though they preached against sin. It's really hard to explain. It's basically what a lot of churches are teaching these days. The teach "once saved always saved" and that "we're forgiven of all sin past present future". They make it like staying away from "certain sins" or made up sins is what saves you. They do not realize what the true saving grace in Jesus Christ. They think going to "church" and doing church activities gains favor with God while you can go gossip behind your neighbor's back, however, they won't admit that it's gossip, they'll say it's Christian discussion. If you're a homosexual, don't tithe, are a woman preacher, then you're hellbound... but if you verbally abuse your wife and children that is okay since you're a forgiven sinner.

To me, true salvation is Jesus Christ...confession/witnessing and belief in His birth, death, burial, and resurrection... salvation is not in the law. As Hebrews 10:26 says, wilful sin is not forgiven, only sins of ignorance are forgiven, so we cannot depend on keeping the law for salvation. Now this does not mean we should just live any way we want to, if you want to be blessed on this earth and in this physical life, then it's best to use the the commands of God as a guide for living right.

(Good question. I don't think a person is truly delivered from that sin if they continue to commit THAT SIN. Maybe they were not talking about the SAME sin....but people don't clarify every statement every time. I would have asked them that....)

I agree that a person is not truly delivered from a sin that they continue to commit. However, if they commit a different sin, it's still as if they did that previous sin. (I think that's the only place we MAY disagree.......that sin is washed by the blood of Jesus...doesn't give one carte Blanche to just sin all willy nilly though, but once it's done its done. Once forgiveness is given its done. If you sin again---a different sin, you must repent, if you do the same sin again, you are reprobate and not delivered). . Sin is sin to God. No sin is greater than another.[/COLOR
I agree...sin is sin to the Lord....liars burn in the same fire as the murderer.
(I understand that too....I will tell you what....You may find that church you love, after a while, they may say something you don't 100% agree with....but also remember---you'll be looking forever before you find a church that agrees and believes everything you agree with.....But its a journey, just a means to an end...)

I'm not necessarily looking for a church that I 100% agree with. I know there are flaws in churches as well as good things in some churches. I just don't see the need for me to waste my time being in a church building with other Christians that I have no fellowship or assembly with. People always wanna use Hebrews 10:25 "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together" as a way to scare people into coming to church but that verse doesn't mean that. They don't realize that you can be sitting up in a church and not be assembled with the people in that church. And that's how I felt. I do better with one-on-one fellowship or small group bible studies with people.

(I definitely sleep well at night MOST DAYS. Ex: Sometimes I come back in prayer and after reflection of my day I realize I may have said something to a subordinate that may have hurt them or said something out of the way. I may have had a sinful thought or mean thought, and I will get down and repent and I won't get sleep sometimes until I do because I am convicted and I listen to what I am being told. Then I seek forgiveness from that employee....And yes if you feel convicted you should believe all of what you have been told.....But here is one way to think of it: You initial upbringing introduced Christ into your life, and your maturity and deeper understanding and desire to be closer to the Lord rather than just a superficial knowledge is taking you to another level! Taking it serious is the right thing to do.)

That's great that you sleep well most nights. It's good to pray and reflect on things. And yes, my initial upbringing did introduce me to Christ and I am thankful for that. Right now, I am just trying to prepare myself to be a better witness for Christ rather than worry about the superficial things. I just want people to be aware of those superficial things that may entice us or put us in fear of living.

(Do you feel your father is leading his flock astray? Do you believe he is leading them INTO sin rather than away from it?)

I'm not really sure how to answer that question because my father says a lot of mixed up things. He doesn't see sin as all the same. He has a hierarchy of some sins being worse than others. And he has made some things out to be sins that really aren't sins. That's a different story.

Poohbear: I pray you find the peace and understanding you seek! In the meantime: Phillipians 4:6 NIV: Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

This scripture has gotten me through times of deep concern, reflection, and even worry! Be well my sister in Christ

 

[SimplyBlessed]

Poohbear & SimplyBlessed:

Are you questioning the Bible? Christianity in general? or are you questioning PEOPLE'S interpretation of the Bible or how someone else practices Christianity?

Fasting and praying is a good way to focus on God 100% and gain understanding of the things you have concerns about. And they are legit concerns!

But whatever GOD decrees to YOU AND YOUR family, you MUST hold true to that. That may mean setting yourself apart from family members....So you may get flack but why worry about it?

I think I'm def do for some fasting n prayer

But yes my problem and concern is NOT with the Bible but the way things are done and said and how ppl want to say that its from the Bible lol

 

[dicapr]

I think I'm def do for some fasting n prayer

But yes my problem and concern is NOT with the Bible but the way things are done and said and how ppl want to say that its from the Bible lol

I am at the same place you are.

 

[blazingthru]

SimplyBlessed

I haven't had a chance to read all the post, but I was where you are now four years ago, and I was floundering trying to find the truth too. Trying to make sense of what I have been told and what I was reading. Finally, with a lot of prayer and I met a friend on here Divya, in fact, and a lot of studying I could decide that was to change my life forever, and I have no regrets, and I did get the answers to all my questions until I no longer had those heart-wrenching questions burning in me. I had answers to them. So my prayers are certainly with you, because it's not easy to go against the things, you were raised to believe your entire life and its not easy to follow a God you do not really know with your whole heart that you question all of his motives. I was there, and I guess this would be a cliche, I was once lost and now I am found. I will come back to this I heading out to church now, and I am late for Sabbath school.

 

[jbwill36]

I think I'm def do for some fasting n prayer

But yes my problem and concern is NOT with the Bible but the way things are done and said and how ppl want to say that its from the Bible lol

SimplyBlessed! Like me...it sounds like you have been introduced to the TRUTH...and your eyes have been opened to the deceptions of Christianity. As the Bible states in (2 Timothy 2:15) "Study to shew thyself approved unto God." Read the "whole" bible, not just the new testament...all of the answers are there! Shalam to you! : )

 

[SimplyBlessed]

SimplyBlessed! Like me...it sounds like you have been introduced to the TRUTH...and your eyes have been opened to the deceptions of Christianity. As the Bible states in (2 Timothy 2:15) "Study to shew thyself approved unto God." Read the "whole" bible, not just the new testament...all of the answers are there! Shalam to you! : )

jbwill36

I was just saying that I sooo badly want to and I am going to read the WHOLE Bible...I think it is sooo important and needed!!

I also want to read the Apocropher

thanks for ur advice and not thinking i'm crazy lol

 

[auparavant]

How did I miss this thread? Interjecting...there is such a simplicity in following Him. I didn't say "easy." But it's all mapped out and with faith and trust the He wants the best for you, you can find rest in Him. Sounds like a simplistic explanation, I know, but where I am is just full of ease. I never have to doubt that it's the right thing to do. Pray that He shows you WHERE you are to be and then be obedient to His will. If we start doubting and over-analyzing every single thing christians do to celebrate Christ, we can become too legalistic. I don't mean "holidays" and "rituals," I'm referring to intent. Sometimes, His complicated order is truly more simplistic than any "simplistic" order we can design. I hope that makes sense. If you think about it a minute, it's pretty profound a thought and can apply in a variety of situations. In other words, if He has fashioned it, then go with it in full confidence and peace. But you can't get to that place until you trust Him.

 

[jbwill36]

jbwill36

I was just saying that I sooo badly want to and I am going to read the WHOLE Bible...I think it is sooo important and needed!!

I also want to read the Apocropher

thanks for ur advice and not thinking i'm crazy lol

SimplyBlessed Crazy! Never that...you sound like you are in your RIGHT mind to me! Ha! And too...it's as if we are on the same journey. I have not read the whole bible yet....I keep jumping around.....but I will. And yes...the Apocrypha is a must. There is much to be learned in the 14 books missing from the bible. If you have an android phone...you can download it on your phone.

 

[SimplyBlessed]

I will def look into downloading it! thanks!!