Can I ask a DUMB question

[Saludable84]

Ok ladies dumb question lol.1. When deep conditioning and just regular conditioning is it wise to rinse it out with cold or cool water. 2. if you dont, what happend? I know cool water closes your cuticles but can't a leave in do that ? Smh Soo confused.

1. After a DC I use a rinse out or smoothing shampoo and I rinse both times with cool water. Not freezing cold, but cold as I can stand. My hair may get a lil hard while combing under the water, but once I go to do my rollersets there is less detangling and breakage. During the week, I have less drizzling, less breakage and shedding, I have to moisturize less and my hair is more manageable. So you don't have to, but I have never had any negative effects with it.

2. I've read on numerous hair and non-hair sites that using cold water will allow the cuticle to fall flatter. Warner and hotter waters raise the cuticles. Think of it like pores. Warmer and hotter water and weather open them but cold water and weather keeps them closed. Now you don't have to. You can do rinses or you use a smoothing product before or after your DC, but since you asked about cold water I wanted to tell you my personal experience and what I have learned abt hair.

 

[wheezy807]

Are u referring to this?

@Froreal3 Actually! I was reading this thread and got all confused. Acidic/base didn't cross my mind.

 

[texasqt]

Dumb question from me:

Ladies who have done BKT or BKT alternatives, when they say not to manipulate you hair for how ever long afterwards (no hair ties, pushing behind the ear, etc) what do you do with your hair when you sleep? I can't imagine just leaving it all loose.

Thx.

I think I loosely wrapped my hair when that time period overlapped with my beauty sleep.

 

[Nonie]

1. After a DC I use a rinse out or smoothing shampoo and I rinse both times with cool water. Not freezing cold, but cold as I can stand. My hair may get a lil hard while combing under the water, but once I go to do my rollersets there is less detangling and breakage. During the week, I have less drizzling, less breakage and shedding, I have to moisturize less and my hair is more manageable. So you don't have to, but I have never had any negative effects with it.

2. I've read on numerous hair and non-hair sites that using cold water will allow the cuticle to fall flatter. Warner and hotter waters raise the cuticles. Think of it like pores. Warmer and hotter water and weather open them but cold water and weather keeps them closed. Now you don't have to. You can do rinses or you use a smoothing product before or after your DC, but since you asked about cold water I wanted to tell you my personal experience and what I have learned abt hair.

@Saludable84 it is not true that cold water closes cuticles and that hot water opens them. A change in pH is what opens or closes cuticles. That is why relaxers are not heated up to raise cuticles and relax hair but are applied cold because the high pH in them is what will open the cuticles to break bonds. Then after that you follow with an acidic neutralizer (low pH) to close the cuticles. Doing a final rinse with a dilute ACV solution (too strong can break your hair) will close your cuticles.

The idea that hot water opens pores and cold closes is also a myth. Pores don't have muscles that contract and expand to open and close. Pores will get large if oil, dirt and dead cells clog them. To minimize pores you need to use a deep cleansing mask and exfoliate. They won't shrink immediately but if you keep this up so that there's no gunk collecting in them, they will shrink up.

It's funny how a rumor is started and then passed on as fact even by people you'd expect to have studied the skin and therefore to be well versed in dermatology. Not talking about you, Saludable, but I keep seeing this myth passed on by beauticians when it is so not true.

 

[Arian]

Can someone point me in the direction of a thread that discusses the care of one's hair while in senagalese twists?

I need spray recs and advice on washing them. I have searched Google, but haven't found what I was looking for yet.

 

[Nonie]

Arian, maybe this thread can help: http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=464822

 

[Froreal3]

@Froreal3 Actually! I was reading this thread and got all confused. Acidic/base didn't cross my mind.

Oh ok. Then base refers to foundation if I'm not mistaken. The underlying ingredients that make a product work.

 

[Froreal3]

Nonie Thanks for that explanation. I didn't even come in this thread looking for answers to anything! Now i don't have to cold water rinse.....not that I ever have....aint nobody got time for that.

 

[Nonie]

Oh ok. Then base refers to foundation if I'm not mistaken. The underlying ingredients that make a product work.

Froreal3 then wouldn't that be ALL products? Coz don't they all have underlying ingredients that make them work. What would be the point of stating "products with a base" or "products made with bases" if it's what is in all products? Yanno wha' I mean?

 

[Cattypus1]

Froreal3 then wouldn't that be ALL products? Coz don't they all have underlying ingredients that make them work. What would be the point of stating "products with a base" or "products made with bases" if it's what is in all products? Yanno wha' I mean?

Base is the term for alkaline or the opposite of acidic..both are measured on the pH scale. This is important in hair care because the higher the pH in a particular product the higher the potential for dryness and damage. Relaxers have a pH of between 10 and 14, hair is between 4.5 and 5.5. This is why we must "neutralize" after relaxing because we must bring the pH of our hair back to its naturally acidic pH or the risk damage because the processing continues until the pH is reduced.

 

[venusfly]

I have two questions.

1. Is it possible to make your individual hair strands thicker or is that genetics?

2. Does your hair really get used to products if you use the same ones all the time?

Re question #2: if you feel like your hair stopped responding to a product you thought worked really well on your hair at first, you might just have product build-up and need to clarify with a good clarifying shampoo. Try clarifying when that happens and see if that works.

 

[frobellete]

is there any need to clarify if i use regular shampoo with sulfates even though i dilute it? i use products with dimethicone and understand (maybe unrightfully so as i havent verified that information) that its water soluble.

 

[venusfly]

I don't use cones as a rule and I still clarify so If you use cones I would think you would need to clarify because of buildup. I don't know if I'm allowed to post a link from elsewhere but here is some info I copied:

Dictionary: Dimethicone
Dimethicone (or polydimethylsiloxane) is one of the main silicones used in hair products. Let me start by clearing a common myth. It does not evaporate. I have included an image showing you some dimethicone fully set as a disc just to emphasize the point.

The type of silicone used in hair is not exactly like that solid though it still does not evaporate. It behaves like an oil and is sometimes referred to as silicone oil.

Here is the dish on dimethicone:

DIMETHICONE (polydimethylsiloxane)


Property Notes
What is it? A silicone.

Where is it derived from? Chemically synthesised
Does it evaporate? No
Is it water soluble? No. It can be rubbed off to a very small extent but in general water is not sufficient to clean it off.
Do you have to use a sulphate (SLS) shampoo to clean it off? SLS containing shampoo is the ideal for good removal. However, other milder sulphate free surfactants can slow or stop silicone build up.

ACTION IN HAIR CONDITIONER
What does silicone do in shampoo and conditioner? It is added in as a conditioner
How much dimethicone is added? Varies greatly. 3-5% is around the mark for most rinse out conditioners and shampoos. Leave in conditioners can be in the same range but can equally go as high up as 80-90% for serums.
Is dimethicone a major component of shampoo or hair conditioner No it is not for shampoo. It varies greatly in conditioner but is generally within (or just outside) the first 5 ingredients after water.

ACTION ON HAIR
Does dimethicone do anything to hair itself 1. It adsorbs (sticks on) on to the outer cuticle of hair.
2. It forms a film on the hair which smoothes down the cuticle
3. It lubricates the hair and is thought to contribute to easier wet combing (i.e less friction).
4.In hair serum, for thermal processing, dimethicone is a heat protectant
Does dimethicone penetrate hair? It is not known to. It has no charge and tends to form a film outside hair rather than penetrate.
Does dimethicone prevent hair from absorbing water? In shampoo and rinse out conditioners, it is actually considered a permeable water barrier. Which means it is a barrier to water but it does not fully prevent water entry and exit.

Sources
J Soc Cosmet Chem, pp 275-284, 1992
J Soc Cosmet Chem, pp 131-136 , 2001
J Soc Cosmet Chem, pp 135-148, 1994
J Investig Dermatol Symp Proc 10:201 –204, 2005

 

[Froreal3]

@Froreal3 then wouldn't that be ALL products? Coz don't they all have underlying ingredients that make them work. What would be the point of stating "products with a base" or "products made with bases" if it's what is in all products? Yanno wha' I mean?

I guess you could say that. What I gathered from reading that post is that rather than mixing their own products from scratch, some vendors are using pre-made/mixed base products, then adding a little fragrance or something on top and then charging an arm and a leg. I could be wrong.

 

[Froreal3]

Base is the term for alkaline or the opposite of acidic..both are measured on the pH scale. This is important in hair care because the higher the pH in a particular product the higher the potential for dryness and damage. Relaxers have a pH of between 10 and 14, hair is between 4.5 and 5.5. This is why we must "neutralize" after relaxing because we must bring the pH of our hair back to its naturally acidic pH or the risk damage because the processing continues until the pH is reduced.

Right, but what does this have to do with the base in the context of the linked post? erplexed *scratches head* From what I understood from it, vendors are trying to sell products at a premium that they didn't make from scratch.

 

[Nonie]

is there any need to clarify if i use regular shampoo with sulfates even though i dilute it? i use products with dimethicone and understand (maybe unrightfully so as i havent verified that information) that its water soluble.

@frobellete, I say yes you do need to clarify simply because you dilute your shampoos. Why, may I ask, do you do that?

I don't believe 'cones are water soluble, otherwise you would be able to rinse them off w/o any soap. It is because they are not water soluble that they make great anti-humectants and can keep straightened hair from reverting. If they were water soluble, then they'd not work well as products that keep humidity out of your hair.

ETA: I see venusfly already answered you. (I should read to the end before responding. )

 

[sckri23]

@frobellete, I say yes you do need to clarify simply because you dilute your shampoos. Why, may I ask, do you do that?

I don't believe 'cones are water soluble, otherwise you would be able to rinse them off w/o any soap. It is because they are not water soluble that they make great anti-humectants and can keep straightened hair from reverting. If they were water soluble, then they'd not work well as products that keep humidity out of your hair.

ETA: I see venusfly already answered you. (I should read to the end before responding. )

Before I found lhcf, I read that diluting shampoos was healthier for your hair because it lessens the effect of the detergents or something. That was a long while ago.

 

[Nonie]

Before I found lhcf, I read that diluting shampoos was healthier for your hair because it lessens the effect of the detergents or something. That was a long while ago.

@sckri23, IMO shampoos are made in concentrations that are supposed to clean hair. Yes some are harsher than others, but I honestly don't know how anyone can expect to get clean hair diluting the shampoo. I mean, you use shampoo while your hair is wet. Isn't that enough diluting? The people who write the directions for using shampoos have tested and tried them on different things to get the correct formula that cleans hair w/o destroying the strands. If someone doesn't like sulfates, get a shampoo w/o them but for crying out loud follow directions on it and stop weakening it by diluting it and making it lousy at doing its job. Giovanni 50:50 is gentle and is sulfate free. I cleans well.

I find it funny that folks will dilute shampoo then in a few weeks use really strong alkalis like baking soda to clarify. I have never diluted shampoos and I have no problems with using silicone products because my shampoos get them off. (I use both sulfate and sulfate-free shampoos indiscriminately.) And I never have problems with build up to the point of needing to clarify. I did use Paul Mitchell clarifying shampoo a few months ago but that was coz I went swimming...and it was the first one that caught my eye when I was shopping in haste. But to be honest, my regular shampoo could've sufficed and I haven't Paul Mitchell since. I think if people followed directions instead of being creative or just believing stuff they read, there'd have less problems.

 

[sckri23]

@sckri23, IMO shampoos are made in concentrations that are supposed to clean hair. Yes some are harsher than others, but I honestly don't know how anyone can expect to get clean hair diluting the shampoo. I mean, you use shampoo while your hair is wet. Isn't that enough diluting? The people who write the directions for using shampoos have tested and tried them on different things to get the correct formula that cleans hair w/o destroying the strands. If someone doesn't like sulfates, get a shampoo w/o them but for crying out loud follow directions on it and stop weakening it by diluting it and making it lousy at doing its job. Giovanni 50:50 is gentle and is sulfate free. I cleans well.

I find it funny that folks will dilute shampoo then in a few weeks use really strong alkalis like baking soda to clarify. I have never diluted shampoos and I have no problems with using silicone products because my shampoos get them off. (I use both sulfate and sulfate-free shampoos indiscriminately.) And I never have problems with build up to the point of needing to clarify. I did use Paul Mitchell clarifying shampoo a few months ago but that was coz I went swimming...and it was the first one that caught my eye when I was shopping in haste. But to be honest, my regular shampoo could've sufficed and I haven't Paul Mitchell since. I think if people followed directions instead of being creative or just believing stuff they read, there'd have less problems.

I looked it up its called the low poo method, and its supposed to be less stripping. I don't do it anymore. When I first started my hair journey without lhcf, All I did was shampoo once a week with diluted shampoo. I hadn't learned anything else yet.

 

[Cattypus1]

Right, but what does this have to do with the base in the context of the linked post? erplexed *scratches head* From what I understood from it, vendors are trying to sell products at a premium that they didn't make from scratch.

I don't really have a dog in this fight...I have never heard of products with base or no base in this context. I'm stepping down from the witness stand...

 

[venusfly]

I looked it up its called the low poo method, and its supposed to be less stripping. I don't do it anymore. When I first started my hair journey without lhcf, All I did was shampoo once a week with diluted shampoo. I hadn't learned anything else yet.

@ sckri . Maybe that would work for naturals who don't use cones or people who don't pre-poo? Just guessing here, but sounds like the rationale behind Low-poo is the same as Pre-poo, i.e. to reduce the effect of harsh sulfates on the hair? Low poo sounds like another alternative to pre-poo to me? I've never low poo'ed but I do pre-poo. Anyway, Just my humble opinion, but I think if you use cones, occasional use of a clarifying shampoo is probably necessary becuase cones coat the hair and can build up.

 

[sckri23]

@ sckri . Maybe that would work for naturals who don't use cones or people who don't pre-poo? Just guessing here, but sounds like the rationale behind Low-poo is the same as Pre-poo, i.e. to reduce the effect of harsh sulfates on the hair? Low poo sounds like another alternative to pre-poo to me? I've never low poo'ed but I do pre-poo. Anyway, Just my humble opinion, but I think if you use cones, occasional use of a clarifying shampoo is probably necessary becuase cones coat the hair and can build up.

Yea I read about it on alot of natural hair sites including curly nikkie

 

[Nonie]

I looked it up its called the low poo method, and its supposed to be less stripping. I don't do it anymore. When I first started my hair journey without lhcf, All I did was shampoo once a week with diluted shampoo. I hadn't learned anything else yet.

Less stripping eh? I guess that's another way of saying not removing dirt. Oil attracts dirt, whether it's natural oils or stuff you've applied. So if you're not washing that gunk off, then you're leaving hair dirty. No thanks! I'd rather have hair that is clean.

 

[sckri23]

Less stripping eh? I guess that's another way of saying not removing dirt. Oil attracts dirt, whether it's natural oils or stuff you've applied. So if you're not washing that gunk off, then you're leaving hair dirty. No thanks! I'd rather have hair that is clean.

It still gets clean. Idk if the less stripping thing is true, but my hair was definitely more healthy. But that might have been from increase in washes. If what you say is true then that means cowashes don't work, you and I both know they do lol.

 

[greenandchic]

@sckri23, IMO shampoos are made in concentrations that are supposed to clean hair. Yes some are harsher than others, but I honestly don't know how anyone can expect to get clean hair diluting the shampoo. I mean, you use shampoo while your hair is wet. Isn't that enough diluting? The people who write the directions for using shampoos have tested and tried them on different things to get the correct formula that cleans hair w/o destroying the strands. If someone doesn't like sulfates, get a shampoo w/o them but for crying out loud follow directions on it and stop weakening it by diluting it and making it lousy at doing its job. Giovanni 50:50 is gentle and is sulfate free. I cleans well.

I find it funny that folks will dilute shampoo then in a few weeks use really strong alkalis like baking soda to clarify. I have never diluted shampoos and I have no problems with using silicone products because my shampoos get them off. (I use both sulfate and sulfate-free shampoos indiscriminately.) And I never have problems with build up to the point of needing to clarify. I did use Paul Mitchell clarifying shampoo a few months ago but that was coz I went swimming...and it was the first one that caught my eye when I was shopping in haste. But to be honest, my regular shampoo could've sufficed and I haven't Paul Mitchell since. I think if people followed directions instead of being creative or just believing stuff they read, there'd have less problems.

Nonie

That's the thing, I don't always want to totally "clean" my hair, but concentrate the shampoo on my scalp. That's why I dilute a little in an applicator bottle before putting it on my scalp, massage a little and letting the residue from that cleanse my hair. No problems with that, but I also cowash my hair, use some rinse out conditioners as a leave in and so on. That's surely not following the directions on the bottles. What don't do is use baking soda on my hair.

The people who tested the shampoos tested them to make sure its safe and it works, and I'm sure it was tested on hair that looks and acts nothing like mine. Long, thick, super curly hair? I don't think so. (I could be wrong).

I do like Giovanni 50:50 if I need a deeper cleansing. I do use it as/is at that point.

 

[Nonie]

It still gets clean. Idk if the less stripping thing is true, but my hair was definitely more healthy. But that might have been from increase in washes. If what you say is true then that means cowashes don't work, you and I both know they do lol.

@sckri23, you're wrong about me. I do not think condition washing is a cleansing technique. When I condition wash it is to moisturize my hair not get it clean. I use shampoo to get my hair clean. I know many people do it, but you won't catch me doing it and calling it a cleansing process.

Conditioners are supposed to coat your hair to make it smooth and less likely to tangle and keep cuticles protected. So there's no way anyone can convince me that they also grab dirt and take it off. If your hair is dirty and you CW, you just add perfume to dirty hair and then coat it nicely.

I shampoo my hair twice a week and I do not use any leave ins. Yet if I do a CW, it would not be to replace a shampoo day but would be an extra wash in between my shampoos. And since my hair has no products, and I wear wraps a lot, chances are it's not dirty.

So the thought of CWing alone, never using shampoo, makes my head itch.

Oh and another thing, I do not believe conditioner belongs on the scalp or can clean the scalp. Don't care what anyone else thinks. No one will ever convince me differently.

 

[Nonie]

@Nonie

That's the thing, I don't always want to totally "clean" my hair, but concentrate the shampoo on my scalp. That's why I dilute a little in an applicator bottle before putting it on my scalp, massage a little and letting the residue from that cleanse my hair. No problems with that, but I also cowash my hair, use some rinse out conditioners as a leave in and so on. That's surely not following the directions on the bottles. What don't do is use baking soda on my hair.

The people who tested the shampoos tested them to make sure its safe and it works, and I'm sure it was tested on hair that looks and acts nothing like mine. Long, thick, super curly hair? I don't think so. (I could be wrong).

I do like Giovanni 50:50 if I need a deeper cleansing. I do use it as/is at that point.

@greenandchic, and using dilute shampoo cleans your scalp better than undiluted?

What's more, I can't half wash things. I guess I'm different because there's no way I'd clean my scalp and not my hair. I'd imagine all sorts of smell smells and mold even if not there. (Wetting something and then not cleaning it while cleaning stuff close so leaving some dirt behind just makes me think of an environment for breeding microbes. ) That'd be like getting in the bath and washing half my body. I couldn't do it!

When I shampoo my hair, I apply undiluted shampoo using fingers directly to my scalp because I want to make sure it's uber clean. There's no way dilute shampoo would make me feel clean. When I start rinsing, diluted shampoo goes through my hair--and you have to remember that is hair that has been bare since 2009! No products on it. If I were using products, I'd not just squeeze the suds running off through my hair. I'd have to apply more shampoo directly on my hair to ensure it gets very clean.

*shrug* To each his own.

 

[greenandchic]

@greenandchic, and using dilute shampoo cleans your scalp better than undiluted?

What's more, I can't half wash things. I guess I'm different because there's no way I'd clean my scalp and not my hair. I'd imagine all sorts of smell smells and mold even if not there. (Wetting something and then not cleaning it while cleaning stuff close so leaving some dirt behind just makes me think of an environment for breeding microbes. ) That'd be like getting in the bath and washing half my body. I couldn't do it!

When I shampoo my hair, I apply undiluted shampoo using fingers directly to my scalp because I want to make sure it's uber clean. There's no way dilute shampoo would make me feel clean. When I start rinsing, diluted shampoo goes through my hair--and you have to remember that is hair that has been bare since 2009! No products on it. If I were using products, I'd not just squeeze the suds running off through my hair. I'd have to apply more shampoo directly on my hair to ensure it gets very clean.

*shrug* To each his own.

For me, its easier to apply the shampoo this way. I apply it to my scalp while still dry - I don't have water on my hair at this point, not yet. It does get to my hair eventually. Since I wash in sections anyway, its easier for me to do this before hitting the shower where I'm more likely to waste more water, or get cold standing there sectioning, washing, making sure my hair doesn't get too tangled etc.

I do wash fairly often and use cleansing conditioners between shampoos and cowashing so I doubt my hair is that nasty. If I was washing <1x per week, I could understand your disgust.

 

[Nonie]

For me, its easier to apply the shampoo this way. I apply it to my scalp while still dry - I don't have water on my hair at this point, not yet. It does get to my hair eventually. Since I wash in sections anyway, its easier for me to do this before hitting the shower where I'm more likely to waste more water, or get cold standing there sectioning, washing, making sure my hair doesn't get too tangled etc.

I do wash fairly often and use cleansing conditioners between shampoos and cowashing so I doubt my hair is that nasty. If I was washing <1x per week, I could understand your disgust.

OK, since you're applying dilute shampoo to dry hair, then that is not unlike applying undiluted shampoo to wet hair @greenandchic.

Girl, I wash twice a week and I couldn't do what you do (ie wash scalp and not hair) on one of those washes...and I don't even use leave-in products!!!

Yeah, we're definitely different folks with different strokes.

 

[frobellete]

I apply diluted shampoo on my scalp and hair while its still dry for it is easier for me and to be honest i also read that it was less stripping - it made sense at the tims. I also cowash in between shampoos. I also use products with cones specifically joico moisture recovery (maybe once a month) and ocassionally infusium 23.

Having said that would you advise I clarify? I dont have access to many options for clarifying shampoos (i searched for a few weeks without luck) where I live unless I search online and was hoping to find another solution. I honestly havent seen any visible product build up on my scalp or hair at all yet.

This is a dumb question but i do need help .