Boundaries ~ Let's Discuss

hopeful

hopeful

Well-Known Member
@caribeandiva has discussed the importance of good boundaries here in the relationship forum and has recommended the book, Boundaries, by Henry Cloud and John Townsend. I just ordered two of their books and they should arrive soon. I can't find it now, but I found a quote the other day that said having good boundaries is a way of showing love and respect for yourself. I really liked that.
 
I haven't read the books but I believe that the phrase "having boundaries" is a condensed way of saying, I know what I want and I know what I don't want so I am not going to accept things, people, and situations that does not align with this. You can achieve boundaries by knowing who you are and subsequently loving yourself for it.
 
@hopeful
In this setting, do you mean boundaries in a romantic relationship, everyday life, or all family relationships.
It'll just help guide how I describe my experience in each area.

I will say that I've gotten very good with boundary setting in all of my relationships, but sometimes I think I come off a little anti-social or standoffish when doing so.
 
What I've seen is that the better we get with boundaries the slicker people get. When people want something from you that they know you won't want to do they try to find any way in. That's why firm boundaries are so important. If there is a hole somewhere in your boundary, a loose plank if you will, slick people will find it.

As far as boundaries with our SO's or DH's it becomes more complicated because unlike other people, what they do, how they are in the world, how strong their boundaries are around a host of areas, impacts us deeply. But initially our boundaries around what they do can look controlling and like you are saying you can or can't do that. But that is not really what it is about. It is about YOU, your life, and what you want. If your SO/DH spends money recklessly that impacts your finances. If your SO/DH has poor boundaries around his time and gives his time away to others that impacts how much time he spends with you. But you can't make anyone do anything or convince anyone of doing anything. We only have control of our own selves.

I also think about how on here a lot of times people will say well you started out accepting this in the relationship so you can't expect things to change now. To me that is unkind. IMO we all change and evolve. As we grow we sometimes discover later that we are unhappy or that our boundaries are being crossed in some way. I think it is good to realize something isn't right and have the courage to speak on it.

My books should arrive today. Once I start reading I'll be back with more.
 
Thank you for your mention @hopeful ! What a great idea for a thread! I'm always talking about this book because it changed my life. :yep: I grew up in a very dysfunctional family with narcissistic parents. I got beaten up for saying NO to them or told how selfish and disrespectful I was. So I became a people pleaser who let everyone walk all over me. All of my relationships were dysfunctional. I didn't know what boundaries were. It wasn't until I landed in therapy because of depression that I finally learned that I don't have to live like that.

When I first read Boundaries it's like a light bulb went off in my head! Letting people walk all over me is NOT love. It's OK to say no to people and it's OK for them to say no to me. That doesn't mean we don't love each other. I don't have to get involved in their drama and try to solve it. Doing things for people that they can do for themselves is NOT helping them. Back off, live my life and let people deal with the consequences of their actions. I lost a lot of "friends " over this. I was hurt at first but then I realized that they were never really my friends to begin with. They were just using me. My life has improved 100% since I started setting limits with people and myself. My life is drama-free and I work hard to keep it that way.
 
Kimbosheart said:
I learned quite a bit from these books. It may not be available now but I was able to read the whole series on Oyster. My monthly membership was $10 and the books are quick reads so I read through 2 in one month.
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Which are the other 2 books you read? Is one of them Boundaries in dating? If so I read that one too. Good stuff. :yep:
 
LovingLady said:
I haven't read the books but I believe that the phrase "having boundaries" is a condensed way of saying, I know what I want and I know what I don't want so I am not going to accept things, people, and situations that does not align with this. You can achieve boundaries by knowing who you are and subsequently loving yourself for it.
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idk about this because this is how i operate and all it does it make it easy for me to kick people out of my life

sounds good til your life has no one else in it.
 
LovingLady said:
Could you give a specific example. I think I have a idea of what you are referring to but I want to be sure so I could elaborate correctly.
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it goes with anything really. i guess an example would be when i was seeing this guy and decided i was entitled to more of his attention and felt like i was a low priority to him. i forced the issue, figuring either he would get it together or else we would stop seeing each other. i would tell myself either way it is a win: either he does what i want, or i get to move on with my life because this guy isnt good for me.

i do that with everything, but especially people. forcing an ultimatum where you either do what i want or prove that your intentions arent good and you have to go. thats not really boundaries i suppose...
 
CaraWalker said:
idk about this because this is how i operate and all it does it make it easy for me to kick people out of my life

sounds good til your life has no one else in it.
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Or you can look at it as getting rid of bad people so you have room/ energy for good.

With your example if your request for time was coming from a selfish immature place then yes it was bad move to cut off nose to spite your face. But if he was always busy, making you feel like an afterthought and that's not the type of relationship you want that being rid of him is no loss. Now you have time to date and hone your interview skills with new applicants so you have better shot of weeding out those that are not your type.

The key is keeping boundaries that you are willing to live with not fronting for others. Some people are better off gone.
 
bklynbornNbred said:
Or you can look at it as getting rid of bad people so you have room/ energy for good.

With your example if your request for time was coming from a selfish immature place then yes it was bad move to cut off nose to spite your face. But if he was always busy, making you feel like an afterthought and that's not the type of relationship you want that being rid of him is no loss. Now you have time to date and hone your interview skills with new applicants so you have better shot of weeding out those that are not your type.

The key is keeping boundaries that you are willing to live with not fronting for others. Some people are better off gone.
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yeah. i mean, i never got his deal. we would have so much fun hanging out together and text literally all day long but it would be so hard getting him to make time for me. i guess that just meant he really did not want to date me in a relationship kind of way :lol: its not like he was not in the market for a girlfriend. oh well.

really, i have the opposite problem in relationships ie relaxing boundaries rather than enforcing them. that is bad in a way, too.
 
CaraWalker said:
it goes with anything really. i guess an example would be when i was seeing this guy and decided i was entitled to more of his attention and felt like i was a low priority to him. i forced the issue, figuring either he would get it together or else we would stop seeing each other. i would tell myself either way it is a win: either he does what i want, or i get to move on with my life because this guy isnt good for me.

i do that with everything, but especially people. forcing an ultimatum where you either do what i want or prove that your intentions arent good and you have to go. thats not really boundaries i suppose...
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@CaraWalker
If you look at what I bolded I think the difference between setting and maintaining boundaries and giving ultimatums is where your heart and focus is. With ultimatums the focus is on the other person's bad behavior, them being disrespectful or unloving etc. So it becomes this either/or situation and the person is backed in a corner.

With boundaries the focus is on you, your dreams, your feelings, and what you hope for in a relationship. It comes from a softer and at the same time, a stronger, place. So it's like I get that you are a busy man and it appears you don't have time for a relationship, or at least a relationship with me. I need a relationship with a man who is willing to carve out enough time in his day to make me feel precious and like a priority. The amount of time you are investing is not enough for me and that's okay, and your choice. I wish you the best, but if this continues I will not be able to go out with you so much (or whatever it is you need to do to protect your heart). I like you a lot and I wish this could work out. And then you have to follow through with some type of action if the behavior continues. It's not taking other people's behavior so personally. It's taking how you feel in that situation personally. What really hurts is not their behavior it's our staying in a situation that hurts our hearts and makes us feel unimportant and unlovable, us not making the right choice for us.

Because a man pursuing a relationship while also giving so much to work or whatever is actually him having poor boundaries with work or whatever is taking up so much of his time and energy. Or yes, he could just be a jerk. But either way we aren't responsible for their behavior or actions, only ours.

And yes, this all HARD, especially with men we like, an especially if we are intimate with them too :look:. And I haven't even started reading the book yet, but these are my thoughts at the moment.
 
hopeful said:
The amount of time you are investing is not enough for me and that's okay, and your choice. I wish you the best, but if this continues I will not be able to go out with you so much (or whatever it is you need to do to protect your heart). I like you a lot and I wish this could work out. And then you have to follow through with some type of action if the behavior continues. It's not taking other people's behavior so personally. It's taking how you feel in that situation personally. What really hurts is not their behavior it's our staying in a situation that hurts our hearts and makes us feel unimportant and unlovable, us not making the right choice for us.

Because a man pursuing a relationship while also giving so much to work or whatever is actually him having poor boundaries with work or whatever is taking up so much of his time and energy. Or yes, he could just be a jerk. But either way we aren't responsible for their behavior or actions, only ours.

And yes, this all HARD, especially with men we like, an especially if we are intimate with them too :look:. And I haven't even started reading the book yet, but these are my thoughts at the moment.[/USER]
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damnit. you are so right. if i had done it that way i probably would have won him over. which is probably why i default to ultimatums in the first place, because i dont want to feel like im manipulating him into doing what i want.

but thats crap. one guy asked me out after just being friends for over a year and i was like how come you never really showed this kind of interest in me before? and he said something about wanting it to be my choice and not wanting to goad me into wanting to be with him. we are stupid that way because i wouldnt have felt goaded at all if he had made his intentions known.
 
CaraWalker said:
@hopeful you always post things that everyone is like OMG YES THANK YOU and while i see the wisdom peripherally its usually on things i already agreed with you with, so it doesnt read as groundbreaking to me :lol: you finally got me with one :lol:
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:lol: :kiss: I understand, the other way feels more vulnerable because you are showing your heart vs. your tough side and disaappointment with them.
 
hopeful said:
that the better we get with boundaries the slicker people get. When people want something from you that they know you won't want to do they try to find any way in. That's why firm boundaries are so important. If there is a hole somewhere in your boundary, a loose plank if you will, slick people will find it.
Click to expand...
That reminds of something that happened to me 2 years ago. I met this firefighter and we agreed to start dating. Before the first date he kept asking me to come to his job so his coworkers can meet me. I said no but he kept asking. I kept refusing and he kept asking. That was strike one. When that didn't work he asked to have lunch with me the very next day. I said no I already have plans which was true. Mind you our first date was only a few days away that same week. But noooo he switched tactics. He then asked if he could bring me lunch instead. By then I was pissed off. So I texted him: "This isn't going to work. It was nice meeting you but it's over before it even started. Goodbye."
 
In relationships, boundaries are essential, especially at the beginning, because they set the tone for the future. IMO, it's harder to change course than to start out in the right direction.

Boundaries sometimes force us to choose between people we love and ourselves - and that's never fun. As women, we're taught early about self-sacrifice, but not so much about self-preservation. That's something we learn through living and learning how to navigate the world. Boundaries are a container that defines the edges of our wholeness.

But the thing about boundaries - and the reason I find some of us have problems enforcing them - is the sense of vulnerability we have when we assert them. We wonder if it's going to push the person away or if they decide they don't want to give us what we want. I found this quote by Cheryl Strayed about that and I reread it ever so often. It's about ultimatums, but some of it's just as true for boundaries:

Ultimatums have negative connotations for many because they're often used by bullies and abusers, who tend to be comfortable pushing people's backs against a wall, demanding that others choose this or that, all or nothing. But when used right, ultimatums offer a respectful and loving way through an impasse that would sooner or later have destroyed a relationship on its own anyway. They require us to ask for something we need from someone else, yes, but they demand the most from us. They require us to acknowledge that the worst-case scenario - the end of a cherished relationship - is better than the alternative - a lifetime of living with sorrow and humiliation and rage. They demand that we ask of ourselves: What do I want? What do I deserve? What will I sacrifice to get it? And then they require that we do it. In fear and in pain and in faith, to swim there.
-Cheryl Strayed
 
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caribeandiva said:
Thank you for your mention @hopeful ! What a great idea for a thread! I'm always talking about this book because it changed my life. :yep: I grew up in a very dysfunctional family with narcissistic parents. I got beaten up for saying NO to them or told how selfish and disrespectful I was. So I became a people pleaser who let everyone walk all over me. All of my relationships were dysfunctional. I didn't know what boundaries were. It wasn't until I landed in therapy because of depression that I finally learned that I don't have to live like that.

When I first read Boundaries it's like a light bulb went off in my head! Letting people walk all over me is NOT love. It's OK to say no to people and it's OK for them to say no to me. That doesn't mean we don't love each other. I don't have to get involved in their drama and try to solve it. Doing things for people that they can do for themselves is NOT helping them. Back off, live my life and let people deal with the consequences of their actions. I lost a lot of "friends " over this. I was hurt at first but then I realized that they were never really my friends to begin with. They were just using me. My life has improved 100% since I started setting limits with people and myself. My life is drama-free and I work hard to keep it that way.
Click to expand...

I'm starting to enforce boundaries and enjoying peace and not having to cater to people or doing things to make them happy.

I actually lost my cousin because of this..
 
hopeful said:
Wow @ "a lifetime of living with sorrow and humiliation and rage." That is really deep.
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BK Bombshell said:
Unfortunately, I've watched this play out several times in relationships that, IMO, should have ended, but didn't. The damage is catastrophic for both parties.
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I know for myself every time that I've let someone trample all over my boundaries I ended up resenting them. What helps me is to ask myself: "Would I rather have that person be mad at me or would I rather be mad at myself later?" I discovered that it's a lot easier to have them be mad at me.
 
So I started reading the books yesterday. I kind of had a hard time getting into them and found them hard to follow. But I'm pushing through and am focussing on the chapters that are most helpful to me.

One point that I found enlightening was that "Creating boundaries involves a support network" and that "Attachment is the foundation of the soul's existence." The authors say that one of the reasons it is so hard to set boundaries and follow through on consequences is because it hurts so much to not feel loved and supported. They said that is why it is important to build a support network first so that if a relationship falls apart, you don't feel unloved and alone.
 
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