Abstinence vs. Marriage

[Bunny77]

The thing is though I have noticed, especially among minorities, that the parents (who have the best intentions) encourage their kids to work for years and go to school for years and that marriage is just a distraction from all this. Which has some truth to it, but sometimes you have to weigh the benefits of each scenario.

I have several married friends and they are mostly young, white Christians. They dated for like a year and went home, talked to their parents and got married. The parents were very supportive. Whereas myself, when I thought of marriage, I knew I'd be eaten alive if I suggested it despite being in a relationship for 4 years. However, my family was surprisingly supportive, but FH's weren't. They said we should continue to date or another 10-16 years! Marriage is tertiary, not a blessing but a distraction.

I agree with you.

Now, I wasn't even thinking about marriage when I was 21-22 or otherwise, but I remember coming home from college sometimes and people were saying, "You aren't going to get married are you?" (they meant in the near future)

When I'd say no, they'd say, "Good. Get your education, you have your whole life ahead of you, follow your dreams, men are trouble, blah blah blah."

The funny thing is, they would just bring this topic up out of nowhere, like they had to "warn" me just in case I was thinking of "derailing" myself by getting married young.

In some ways, I understand where they're coming from, because they want me to take advantage of opportunities they didn't have. At the same time, when young women are constantly told to wait wait wait until... whenever... I think it puts a negative perception in your head eventually... like you can't even say, "Well, I'd like to get married at some point," without hearing the boo-birds come out.

Of course, then you hit 35 and you're still single and it's like, "Why are you single???"

Again, it's all about that disconnect I'm talking about...

 

[Bunny77]

You always take the words out of my mouth!!! In my experience, I feel that in church I either get talked to about how "everyone won't get married" or I hear things that only pertain to married folks. Of course there's a singles ministry which is full of women although in my church we just have an Adults Ministry and it is pretty mixed thankfully.

Yet another problem!

I think if this message is repeated too much, you will find people who might just say, "Well what's the point of being abstinent then if I'm never going to marry?"

Churches can respond that you should abstain simply because God wants you to do that, but I can see how people might say to themselves, "Why bother? You're telling me to wait until marriage before having sex, but then you're implying that I possibly won't get married. Then I see all of these great single Christian women in my church who are 30, 40 and older and never married and I'm being told this could possibly be MY future? No thanks!"

In cultures and faiths that emphasize marriage, marriage rates are high because the people are taught that getting married is as natural as waking up and going to sleep. I think that if churches began taking this approach more, there wouldn't be a need to say "Well, everyone won't get married."

And abstinence teaching would be so much more effective if people knew they had something to look forward to in a few years -- not a few decades!!! Yikes!

 

[Farida]

I agree with you.

Now, I wasn't even thinking about marriage when I was 21-22 or otherwise, but I remember coming home from college sometimes and people were saying, "You aren't going to get married are you?" (they meant in the near future)

When I'd say no, they'd say, "Good. Get your education, you have your whole life ahead of you, follow your dreams, men are trouble, blah blah blah."

The funny thing is, they would just bring this topic up out of nowhere, like they had to "warn" me just in case I was thinking of "derailing" myself by getting married young.

In some ways, I understand where they're coming from, because they want me to take advantage of opportunities they didn't have. At the same time, when young women are constantly told to wait wait wait until... whenever... I think it puts a negative perception in your head eventually... like you can't even say, "Well, I'd like to get married at some point," without hearing the boo-birds come out.

Of course, then you hit 35 and you're still single and it's like, "Why are you single???"

Again, it's all about that disconnect I'm talking about...

ITA... marriage is discouraged for years and all of a sudden it gets to a point where everyone, including the people who were discouraging you, are like, "why aren't you married yet? are you gay? why are you scaring men?"

It is also very hard to work towards a goal that seems to have no definition. It is frustrating in the least...

 

[janiebaby]

ITA... marriage is discouraged for years and all of a sudden it gets to a point where everyone, including the people who were discouraging you, are like, "why aren't you married yet? are you gay? why are you scaring men?"

It is also very hard to work towards a goal that seems to have no definition. It is frustrating in the least...

I really can't wait until I have children....Why do parents teach children these things?? I've heard men encourage their sons to not get married and I've also seen mothers encourage their sons not to get married (which repulses me). The women were single, divorced and married mothers .

Meanwhile I don't see people saying don't have sex AND don't get married. I mean they say "have fun" which is my whole point, people are going to want to have sex today, tomorrow, someday, forever....why not encourage marriage instead of giving up hope and throwing condoms at people?

Am I in Bizarro land????

 

[PaperClip]

I really can't wait until I have children....Why do parents teach children these things?? I've heard men encourage their sons to not get married and I've also seen mothers encourage their sons not to get married (which repulses me). The women were single, divorced and married mothers .

Meanwhile I don't see people saying don't have sex AND don't get married. I mean they say "have fun" which is my whole point, people are going to want to have sex today, tomorrow, someday, forever....why not encourage marriage instead of giving up hope and throwing condoms at people?

Am I in Bizarro land????

Because encouraging marriage in and of itself does not automatically mean COMPATIBILITY in marriage. It helps (A LOT, I presume) to marry somebody that you are compatible with, whether a person is a Christian or not.

I have been at my church for almost 20 years, and in that entire time, I have not met ONE DUDE who I felt I was compatible with enough to consider a third date. Marriage is strongly encouraged at my church. And when I look around, I ask: who can I marry? Who would want to marry me?

I want to have sex. I have TRIED to make appointments for sex...as most recently as last fall. Got blocked. I am knocking strong on the door of 40....

A sad, sad, heartbreaking situation INDEED....

And from a conversation I had with somebody over the weekend, it appears that more folk are "helping each other" sexually.... Wow.... The Holy Spirit did give me a "check" on the slippery slope of "am I the only holding out" theory.

 

[janiebaby]

Because encouraging marriage in and of itself does not automatically mean COMPATIBILITY in marriage. It helps (A LOT, I presume) to marry somebody that you are compatible with, whether a person is a Christian or not.

I have been at my church for almost 20 years, and in that entire time, I have not met ONE DUDE who I felt I was compatible with enough to consider a third date. Marriage is strongly encouraged at my church. And when I look around, I ask: who can I marry? Who would want to marry me?

I want to have sex. I have TRIED to make appointments for sex...as most recently as last fall. Got blocked. I am knocking strong on the door of 40....

A sad, sad, heartbreaking situation INDEED....

And from a conversation I had with somebody over the weekend, it appears that more folk are "helping each other" sexually.... Wow.... The Holy Spirit did give me a "check" on the slippery slope of "am I the only holding out" theory.

Sex can be good and sex can be bad so don't fall into the "I just wanna know what it feels like" trap because you just may get one of the bad ones. Also, you don't want to feel the guilt and emotional pain not to mention physical setbacks in some cases that comes with it.

In light of the marriage thing, I think that people should be taught what marriage is all about instead of saying "Women don't give it up to these men until they put a ring on your finger" or "Men marry these women". My pastor does however tell us about how to conduct ourselves in marriage but what I want to know is "how do we get there?". Since women are supposed to be found, why not encourage men to look for a wife with the same fervor they look for a bed mate and women to be sought after for marriage with the same fervor that we seek attention (mostly negative by way of sex appeal)?

 

[PaperClip]

Sex can be good and sex can be bad so don't fall into the "I just wanna know what it feels like" trap because you just may get one of the bad ones. Also, you don't want to feel the guilt and emotional pain not to mention physical setbacks in some cases that comes with it.

In light of the marriage thing, I think that people should be taught what marriage is all about instead of saying "Women don't give it up to these men until they put a ring on your finger" or "Men marry these women". My pastor does however tell us about how to conduct ourselves in marriage but what I want to know is "how do we get there?". Since women are supposed to be found, why not encourage men to look for a wife with the same fervor they look for a bed mate and women to be sought after for marriage with the same fervor that we seek attention (mostly negative by way of sex appeal)?

At this point, a choice I would make to have sex out of marriage would be my own choice. I couldn't say "I didn't know" or "I couldn't control myself". Not saying I'm perfect, but it would be "Hey Lord, can you forgive me for this later" kind of thing (YIKES!) While I don't know first-hand the physical and emotional traumas that occur with having sex outside of marriage (regardless of if the sex is good or otherwise), I have heard A LOT of stories and most days I'm grateful for where I am....

You ask about encouraging men to seek a wife with the same fervor, etc.? Well, for one thing, how can the men hear the message if the men are not in church to hear it? Also, it seems that a man can get a woman for sex without much effort, so why should they put effort into something that doesn't need effort?

 

[janiebaby]

At this point, a choice I would make to have sex out of marriage would be my own choice. I couldn't say "I didn't know" or "I couldn't control myself". Not saying I'm perfect, but it would be "Hey Lord, can you forgive me for this later" kind of thing (YIKES!) While I don't know first-hand the physical and emotional traumas that occur with having sex outside of marriage (regardless of if the sex is good or otherwise), I have heard A LOT of stories and most days I'm grateful for where I am....

You ask about encouraging men to seek a wife with the same fervor, etc.? Well, for one thing, how can the men hear the message if the men are not in church to hear it? Also, it seems that a man can get a woman for sex without much effort, so why should they put effort into something that doesn't need effort?

I had to laugh at the first question, because you are right! I guess it goes back to what I was saying a few posts ago about mothers and fathers encouraging their sons to get married and it may be more of a cultural issue than a church issue.

Yes a man can get a woman for sex but I don't think men seek wives for just sex and I don't think encouraging them to see a wife sooner than later is going to make them seek out a wife for sex alone (though it may be a motivator).

I wish I had a link to an article written by a man that said that women are more likely to bring up sex than men which in my experience is true and I have been guilty of this in the past. This can also be backed up by comparing the ages of when most girls and boys lose their virginity. Most girls lose their virginity at a younger age than boys. How is this so? Because they're having sex with older guys.

The ones that have tried me first in the past were impressed when I didn't give in. I've also read a book by a man (I like to read things written by men on this subject) that sometimes men will try "not" to have sex with a woman he is serious about because he does not want to put her in the "all the others" category. I have also seen real life examples of this with friends and myself.

Below is a link to a very good (very, very long) article about this whole sex thing in our culture....
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,878002-1,00.html

 

[PaperClip]

I had to laugh at the first question, because you are right! I guess it goes back to what I was saying a few posts ago about mothers and fathers encouraging their sons to get married and it may be more of a cultural issue than a church issue.

Yes a man can get a woman for sex but I don't think men seek wives for just sex and I don't think encouraging them to see a wife sooner than later is going to make them seek out a wife for sex alone (though it may be a motivator).

I wish I had a link to an article written by a man that said that women are more likely to bring up sex than men which in my experience is true and I have been guilty of this in the past. This can also be backed up by comparing the ages of when most girls and boys lose their virginity. Most girls lose their virginity at a younger age than boys. How is this so? Because they're having sex with older guys.

The ones that have tried me first in the past were impressed when I didn't give in. I've also read a book by a man (I like to read things written by men on this subject) that sometimes men will try "not" to have sex with a woman he is serious about because he does not want to put her in the "all the others" category. I have also seen real life examples of this with friends and myself.

Below is a link to a very good (very, very long) article about this whole sex thing in our culture....
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,878002-1,00.html

The guys ALWAYS brought it up first with me. I never brought it up first. I think that a man who wrote that was either projecting his own experience or shifting blame to avoid responsibility/accountability for his own actions.

 

[janiebaby]

The guys ALWAYS brought it up first with me. I never brought it up first. I think that a man who wrote that was either projecting his own experience or shifting blame to avoid responsibility/accountability for his own actions.

Ooops, I just reread what I wrote. He was talking about his experience with women. I'll try to find the link and post it.

 

[Farida]

The point of this thread (OP correct me if I am wrong) is to say that we need to encourage the beauty of marriage (not just to anyone) with the same fervor as celibacy seems to be sold nowadays.

R&R the problem is a lot of men are not encouraged to seek wives. I have heard several Christian men teach their sons to go out and "sow wild oats." Outside of church the encouragement seems lacking.

Also, I don't think some people are raising sons to be men. They allow them to behave like boys way too long. Some men are embarrassed to admit that they want a wife.

 

[DayStar]

Abstinence is hard. Especially if you aren't a virgin . We messed up a few times last year and we've had a difficult road to travel trying to keep our hands off of each other and waiting till we get married in March.

God forgive me for my stupidity.

To me, churches do need to teach marriage - BUT they need to not teach that sex is the reason you get married.

I don't really know how they are to do it but I guess you can only teach them to pray for guidance on who their life partner should be.

I keep saying on this site over and over that I believe the reason it is so difficult to wait for christians today is because we wait so long to seal the deal.

I don't think they had engagements that lasted YEARS back in the bible days.

Now we find it normal to date for 2 years and have a year engagement and then we tell folks they have gone to fast if they've gotten married before that.

It sure makes it hard to abstain when you gotta wait 3 years to marry a person.

GREAT response! Abstinence is hard EVEN as a virgin .......but im sure it is more even difficult for those already experiencing the goods.

 

[DayStar]

I've been in a long-term relationship and it is disheartening that several people are telling us to wait, "you guys are just having fun." Basically, they want us to achieve soooo many things before we even consider marriage. Some even said get married when you get pregnant.

Abstinence is hard and I am so glad I wasn't allowed to date until I was in college. IMO you should not date unless you can feasibly get married soon if you plan to be chaste.

i so agree ..

 

[janiebaby]

The point of this thread (OP correct me if I am wrong) is to say that we need to encourage the beauty of marriage (not just to anyone) with the same fervor as celibacy seems to be sold nowadays.

R&R the problem is a lot of men are not encouraged to seek wives. I have heard several Christian men teach their sons to go out and "sow wild oats." Outside of church the encouragement seems lacking.

Also, I don't think some people are raising sons to be men. They allow them to behave like boys way too long. Some men are embarrassed to admit that they want a wife.

Hey Viv! I agree with you, our society is encouraging men and women to prolong their childhood and now everyone is wondering why our men and women are "failing to launch".

I thought the whole purpose of childhood was to prepare boys and girls for adulthood. Since this is the Christianity forum here's some scripture,
Pr 22:6 ¶ Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Viv, in regards to something else you said, I think both men and women are embarassed to admit that they want to be married for fear that, like Bunny said, people will discourage you then turn around and ask later "Why aren't you married yet?"

Keyword: Train

Main Entry: 3train Function: verb Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French trainer, from Vulgar Latin *traginare; akin to Latin trahere to draw Date: 15th century transitive verb1: trail drag2: to direct the growth of (a plant) usually by bending, pruning, and tying3 a: to form by instruction, discipline, or drill b: to teach so as to make fit, qualified, or proficient4: to make prepared (as by exercise) for a test of skill5: to aim at an object or objective

 

[Ms Red]

Viv, I agree.

I have experienced the product of discouraging a son from marriage. My boyfriend grew up hearing 'Don't get married, get your education' from his mother... He was not raised as a 'future husband' and he has emotionally paid for it. His mother was married to his dad and then later divorced and spent the majority of my bf's childhood (and now) as a single parent. None of her children (5 boys, ages 30 to 19) are married, and none (except my bf) are even thinking in the realm of marriage.

They were raised in the church but didn't get the message there either. erplexed Once we had dated for 2 years he confessed that he never really pictured himself with a wife. Ever. Things have drastically changed since he made that comment but I'm just using this as an example. Some are not teaching their sons to be men, future fathers or husbands. To this day, I don't think his mother is concerned at all about him marrying (as a matter of fact, she might dislike the idea, actually )