A black stylist came up with hair typing?

[Cherokee-n-Black]

Is anyone else surprised by this? I just think it's so odd that a black stylist would break it down into these few categories knowing all the different textures of AA that can occur. I know there are AA's who are type 1's, 2's and 3's, but there is a whole spectrum in between 3c and 4a - c. And here we are on a hair care forum for women of color with so many people not really knowing what their hair type is (myself included). We need a new system! Holla if ya' hear me!

 

[KynniB]

Not really. Hair typing can be really confusing and complex. Im glad it was introduced in simpler terms in the beginning. I havent even looked at that Andre method. Its doing too much for me. If you really want to be accurate, no two heads are going to have the exact same hair type.

 

[nichole21]

Possibly, though my question would be...
What added benefit would we gain breaking the type 3 or type 4 subsections down even further (or creating a new more intensive system). At some point the difference would be so minute they'd serve little purpose.

btw: There is another typing chart called LOIS, then there is FIA which is similar to Andre's but account for thickness and texture.

 

[glamazon386]

Not really. If most black women are relaxed (and even more back then when he created this system) how would we know there are all these variations in natural textures? And realistically if you're relaxed would the types even matter? Probably not.

Natural hair salons, products, techniques, etc. have all become increasingly popular in what the last 10 years? I think it was a good start but it's still just that. A start. 3c wasn't even in his system but the people at naturallycurly.com added it because there was a big gap between 3b and 4a. I think that's why there's so much confusion and overlap with 3c and 4a. The whole we need a new system thing has been discussed ad naseum. I've been here on the board since 2005 and they were talking about it back then just like they are now.

 

[Ronnieaj]

I don't think there's ever going to be a typing that will adequately address everyone's issues, and I don't think he even tried. And don't forget, the original typing doesn't have 3c or 4c, which is why they tend to cause so much confusion, IMO. Heck, they don't even adequately cover the spectrum of non-blacks, as far as I'm concerned. And correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the typing systems I've seen have been started by blacks, for better or for worse.

 

[nichole21]

Not really. If most black women are relaxed (and even more back then when he created this system) how would we know there are all these variations in natural textures? And realistically if you're relaxed would the types even matter? Probably not.

Natural hair salons, products, techniques, etc. have all become increasingly popular in what the last 10 years? I think it was a good start but it's still just that. A start. 3c wasn't even in his system but the people at naturallycurly.com added it because there was a big gap between 3b and 4a. I think that's why there's so much confusion and overlap with 3c and 4a.

Indeed. Many times I doubt whether 3c exists and other times I think its just a combo of 3b/4a. 3c looks alot like 4a in my opinion and when it doesn't look like 4a... its starting to look like 3b!

 

[glamazon386]

Indeed. Many times I doubt whether 3c exists and other times I think its just a combo of 3b/4a. 3c looks alot like 4a in my opinion and when it doesn't look like 4a... its starting to look like 3b!

ITA... I really think it doesn't exist either.

 

[glamazon386]

Right what is 4c anyway?!?!

 

[tatiana]

No.
I am surprise that Oprah have not have Andre on the show to revamp, revise, or go into further detail on his hair typing system in recent years.
I honestly think that Andre did not expect people would use his hair typing system like they have when he first created it.

 

[pookaloo83]

It's just another way to divide folks even more than we are now. We didn't need it then so we don't need it now IMO.

 

[tocktick]

^^ That was the reason why NP blocked words like 4a and 4b. Yet the last time I was there, the words that automatically replaced it were nappy (4a or a looser tex, I think) or nappy-nappy (4b). I suppose that's supposed to be amusing but I think it kind of defeats the purpose of the filter really.

I don't think the Andre system is complete because there are so many variations of hair. I think right now it's a very rough guide for hair that hasn't worked too badly. Although the list could probably do with some updating, I believe that there would still be confusion and people would continue to create their own sub-categories. A certain closed thread has me kind of wary of describing my hair as 4a and I'm still yet to know what 4C or 4Z looks like.

 

[Junebug D]

Right what is 4c anyway?!?!

That's something that was just added on after the fact also. 4c and 4z are pretty much 4b.

 

[silvergirl]

the types are a curl size, there arent/shouldnt refer to texture, therefore 3c is merely the size of a coil. pencil to fat marker size is 3c. fat marker size to sidewalk chalk is 3b. pencil to pen spring is 4a. obviously there will be an overlap. for instance if some has pencil sized coils are they 3c or 4a? its for them to decided or take the easy route and say 3c/4a since they're on the the borderline.

as far as texture characteristics that's aside from curl size. textures from fine , course, wirey, nappy, kinky, thick, these are all separate from curl size....

 

[Cherokee-n-Black]

the types are a curl size, there arent/shouldnt refer to texture, therefore 3c is merely the size of a coil. pencil to fat marker size is 3c. fat marker size to sidewalk chalk is 3b. pencil to pen spring is 4a. obviously there will be an overlap. for instance if some has pencil sized coils are they 3c or 4a? its for them to decided or take the easy route and say 3c/4a since they're on the the borderline.

as far as texture characteristics that's aside from curl size. textures from fine , course, wirey, nappy, kinky, thick, these are all separate from curl size....

And I think this sums up the issue. I don't have curls, period. I don't have coils or springs. I don't have a z pattern, and it's definitely not 1 or 2-type hair. ITA that the "typing" doesn't help, but I guess when I saw it, I thought anyone who would simplify (oversimplify) hair "types" into such narrow categories (with the entire spectrum of textures beyond spiral curls basically relegated to the 4th type) must be a white person who thinks AA hair is basically all the same. I don't see how any black stylist could come to that conclusion, but c'est la vie. I also don't think--and correct me if I'm wrong, that the "types" are completely texture blind beyond curls. A number of people on here have said their hair is coarse, but kind of straight or has a wave-like pattern, but I don't think in a million years they'd be considered 1 or 2. Oh well, I guess I'm just having sour grapes since I don't get to be a type. LOL

 

[mstar]

I think Andre's system is very useful, and I've never found it confusing. I think that's because I define the #3 and #4 categories by texture. When you try to define them strictly by curl size, there is overlap, and it gets confusing.

To me, type 4 is kinky, and type 3 is a silkier texture. This is usually self-evident (in my opinion), but the easiest way to identify kinky vs. silky is when the hair is blow dried. The type 3s will be shinier and smoother.

I see people getting all confused and hung up on whether their curls are pen spring size, pencil size, or chalk size, and I think all that is unnecessary.

I always thought that 4bs have plenty of curl (tight coils), but no curl definition, since their coils are all headed in different directions. 4c/4z doesn't really have coils, since the hair bends at sharp angles (zig-zag pattern). And 4a has a definite curl pattern, with a kinky texture. I know these aren't necessarily the standard, accepted definitions, but they work for me, so I'm never confused about hair typing.

 

[Cheleigh]

No.
I am surprise that Oprah have not have Andre on the show to revamp, revise, or go into further detail on his hair typing system in recent years.
I honestly think that Andre did not expect people would use his hair typing system like they have when he first created it.

He didn't. I'm not even sure "he" created it. A gal on naturally curly once said she was one of the writers of that book, and basically said they sort of "added" it almost as an afterthought. Certainly without a significant level of research and exploration.

 

[Ronnieaj]

I think Andre's system is very useful, and I've never found it confusing. I think that's because I define the #3 and #4 categories by texture. When you try to define them strictly by curl size, there is overlap, and it gets confusing.

To me, type 4 is kinky, and type 3 is a silkier texture. This is usually self-evident (in my opinion), but the easiest way to identify kinky vs. silky is when the hair is blow dried. The type 3s will be shinier and smoother.

I see people getting all confused and hung up on whether their curls are pen spring size, pencil size, or chalk size, and I think all that is unnecessary.

I always thought that 4bs have plenty of curl (tight coils), but no curl definition, since their coils are all headed in different directions. 4c/4z doesn't really have coils, since the hair bends at sharp angles (zig-zag pattern). And 4a has a definite curl pattern, with a kinky texture. I know these aren't necessarily the standard, accepted definitions, but they work for me, so I'm never confused about hair typing.

And I think this is where the problem is. 4c is a creation--the original system stopped at 4b. 4b were sharp angles; 4a were tight curls. People on boards created the "c" category in the 3 and 4 range; heck, I've heard people talk about 1a and 1b on other boards, and I'm like WTH? 1 is straight hair! Texture actually had no bearing on the original system. My secretary is pretty standard 3b, but her hair is coarse and all bejeebus. I can't get a much better blow-dry and flat iron than she can, and I've got pretty standard coily coarse hair. That's why systems like LOIS and FIA were created, because Andre didn't account for texture at all, even if we decide that we're going to.

 

[silvergirl]

ive seen 3a and 3b's that dont have silky texture. but they certainly arent type 4. even when blowdried it can turn into a big bush. an ive seen silky 4a's, and coarse type 1's this is why i truly believe the system is based on curl size only

but why create a system based on size is beyond me. if it is supposed to include texture, then it is truly flawed. because then we are missing a whole field of hair types. 1b? 1c? 3a.1? 4a.1 course loose textures, silky tight textures, ppl with coarse kinky hair and no curl pattern, fine textured hair with kinky curls......

u really need both curls size and textures for the system to be effecient.