Who is sick and tired of hair typing?

[inthepink]

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jetcitygirl said:
I think that Andre probably didn't envision people taking the hair typing system to such a degree as we do on hair boards. I agree that typing one's hair can be very subjective, and not only that but pictures do not always convey the true nature/texture or hair. I take most of my pics when my hair is styled with products, and to me it looks coilier/frizzier in person than in my pics...<shrug> I use the hair typing system as a general guideline only, not an exact thing.For example if someone says they have type 4 hair I'm going to expect it to be afro-type hair with a high degree of fuzz/frizz (if natural). Type 3 hair is similiar to type 4a but less wiry etc...But it's still a range, not an exact number.

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I think you're right as far as the range is concerned. For example, I don't think anyone is a definite 2b or 4a...but they exist somewhere in the range. There could be 30 different 2bs and 30 different 4as to varying degrees. Just a thought.

 

[nurseN98]

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hairlove said:
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jetcitygirl said:
I think that Andre probably didn't envision people taking the hair typing system to such a degree as we do on hair boards. I agree that typing one's hair can be very subjective, and not only that but pictures do not always convey the true nature/texture or hair. I take most of my pics when my hair is styled with products, and to me it looks coilier/frizzier in person than in my pics...<shrug> I use the hair typing system as a general guideline only, not an exact thing.For example if someone says they have type 4 hair I'm going to expect it to be afro-type hair with a high degree of fuzz/frizz (if natural). Type 3 hair is similiar to type 4a but less wiry etc...But it's still a range, not an exact number.

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I think you're right as far as the range is concerned. For example, I don't think anyone is a definite 2b or 4a...but they exist somewhere in the range. There could be 30 different 2bs and 30 different 4as to varying degrees. Just a thought.

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ITA......I still can't figure out my hair type,I don't think I'm on the scale. Andre need to add a few more numbers

 

[FlowerHair]

I have been natural almost all my life (except for 2 times when I relaxed my hair), and I must say that my hair can take on ANY look I want. I can EASILY make my hair look everything from a type 2-4.
It all depends on how you treat your hair and what products you use.
For example, if I let my hair air dry and then comb it, it will look like a type 4.
If I put mousse or leave in conditioner and let it air dry and don't touch it, it can look like a type 2.
If I put mousse or leave in conditioner and blow dry my hair with my head leaning forward (you know what I mean haha) my hair looks like a huge 3c.
I'll have to start an album to show you.
It all depends on what you do with the hair after you wash it.

 

[Neroli]

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DahomeyAhosi said:
Hair typing has been fine for me. I don't think it makes a good/bad hair distinction unless you come into it with that preconception and/or opinion. People do have different hair types and this is just one way to try to categorize.

I am firmly mostly 4b with some 4a and I definitely find that if I listen to the recommendations of others with the same hair type I'll be better off in the long run

.

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I agree. I don't consider it some be all end all category but rather a broad framework that helps me loosely determine whether I share similar (NOT same, similar) hair type with someone else. Hair typing can probably never be precise no matter what system is used because too many variables and folks with too many textures, curl, etc. in order for anyone to come up with some precise, accurate chart. The broad typing has been a tremendous help to me in devising an excellent routine for what I loosely and probably very imprecisely generally categorize as my 4b hair (I've got different textures, curl pattern, etc., but majority is what I perceive to be 4b).

I hope folks keep attemtping to use the loose framework when discussing routines, because truly DOES help me.

As they say about democracy, it ain't perfect, but it's the best we can do right now. . .

 

[melodee]

If it works for you, than certainly use it. But for those who feel that it really isn't very valuable, than I suggest forgetting about labeling your hair and let it just be. This may be silly, but I feel my hair has grown longer and stronger when I decided to stop categorizing it. My textures just don't fit in a neat little box. Many people (NOT all) think that 4a/b are at a disadvantage in the hair care dept. It really is a matter of how you care for that hair, but sometimes the categorization helps to promote that notion.

 

[Cowgirl]

Well, under Andre's scale, I consider myself a 4a/b because my hair is naturally kinky, I think. But I kinda have my own method of determining whether some ones hair is similar to mine. I have my own 3 type system below.

1. Your hair texture (not pattern)is naturally straight.
A type 1 person would not put a "relaxer" or "pressing comb" in their hair because it would practically melt or use "grease"for that matter. They would typically have to "perm" the hair to get it curly or wavy. Typically Caucasian, Asian, hispanic. Some Caucasians have curly hair but I consider that a curly pattern, not a curly texture.

2. Your hair texture is naturally wavy.
A type 2 person could put a "mild relaxer" on their hair to make it straighter or just blow dry for a strait look. The hair when wet does not tangle excessively and is usually pretty straight until it starts to dry and then it begins to wave or curl up. Typically persons of mixed heritage, regardless of how far down the ancestral line the mix occurred.

3. Your hair texture is naturally coiled/kinky.
A "relaxer" or "pressing iron" is needed to straighten the hair. Can be partially straightened with a blow dryer but not fully straightened. If your naturally (not relaxed) hair can become an afro puff, then you're type 3. If Moms pressed your hair as a kid or you still press your hair then your a type 3.

Now don't beat me up for this, it's just my general way of making things easier for me to understand. Because a type 1 person who could not use a pressing comb or relaxer without melting their hair is not the person I would go to for advice. I would typically go to a type 3 person for advice because they would better understand my issues.

 

[JenJen2721]

I think the numbers in Andre's system are helpful, but the letters make it confusing.

For example, I know that I'm somewhere in the 4 range. Whether I'm 'a' or 'b' I don't really know and I don't think I necessarily need to know.

My daughter is somewhere in the 3 range because her natural hair can easily glide through a smaller tooth comb and although it's coily it's not kinky. So the hairtyping system is helpful for me for example if I decide to go natural, it will be helpful to get tips from others who have a similar hair type. Not necessarily for product recommendations, but just the way the hair behaves. Many product recommendations that have worked for type 2 hair have worked for me as well.

Also, if you read Andre's book, the pictures he has of the different hair types are very accurate and very helpful.

 

[babyblue]

i dont take the hair typing too seriously. Andre's system is very general, its up to the individual if they decide to explain their type further. I consider myself in the type 4 range but I can look more a or b depending on what shampoo/conditioner combo i use, or if my hair is picked out.

 

[Poohbear]

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babyblue said:
i dont take the hair typing too seriously.

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same here

 

[Poohbear]

Also...I don't see the relevance of knowing what your hair type is because there isn't any information on how to take care of each specific hair type so why care what your hair type is???

 

[GodMadeMePretty]

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cowgirl said:
Well, under Andre's scale, I consider myself a 4a/b because my hair is naturally kinky, I think. But I kinda have my own method of determining whether some ones hair is similar to mine. I have my own 3 type system below.

1. Your hair texture (not pattern)is naturally straight.
A type 1 person would not put a "relaxer" or "pressing comb" in their hair because it would practically melt or use "grease"for that matter. They would typically have to "perm" the hair to get it curly or wavy. Typically Caucasian, Asian, hispanic. Some Caucasians have curly hair but I consider that a curly pattern, not a curly texture.

2. Your hair texture is naturally wavy.
A type 2 person could put a "mild relaxer" on their hair to make it straighter or just blow dry for a strait look. The hair when wet does not tangle excessively and is usually pretty straight until it starts to dry and then it begins to wave or curl up. Typically persons of mixed heritage, regardless of how far down the ancestral line the mix occurred.

3. Your hair texture is naturally coiled/kinky.
A "relaxer" or "pressing iron" is needed to straighten the hair. Can be partially straightened with a blow dryer but not fully straightened. If your naturally (not relaxed) hair can become an afro puff, then you're type 3. If Moms pressed your hair as a kid or you still press your hair then your a type 3.

Now don't beat me up for this, it's just my general way of making things easier for me to understand. Because a type 1 person who could not use a pressing comb or relaxer without melting their hair is not the person I would go to for advice. I would typically go to a type 3 person for advice because they would better understand my issues.

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I like this one. It makes more sense. I mean, isn't a loose wave the same as an S shape just more elongated? Aren't Andre's 2s and 3s really the same? It's all so confusing. Yours makes a LOT more sense. I'm going to put this in my siggy. You better patent this, girl.

 

[Donda]

What system would you suggest we use? The Andre system gave one bennfit it help us have an idea of what each others hair was and how we could help.

Example:

Relaxar's, conditioners, etc that work on 3's may not work as well as 4's and so on. Many that I hear that like Motions relaxer's are 3's, and although it worked on my 3c hair (forgive me) it didn't do well with my 4a.

I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.............it would still be good to have something to base recomendations on.

 

[ms_kenesha]

I think another thing hair typing leaves out is the actual texture of the hair, you can have curls the size of a coffee stirrer and they be silky, cottony, or wirey which would change how people looking at your hair would type you. I've seen 3Cs with silky hair and 3Bs with cottony hair, so that is a major difference that gets left out that I think makes a big difference. Because I would have more in common with a cottony 3B than a silky 4A...does that make sense

 

[FlowerHair]

That makes a lot of sense MsKenesha. Here is what I found in the "Hair Bible" (Let's Talk Hair/Pamela Ferrell):

Cottony Hair, a fine texture with 50% or more shrinkage, actually feels soft and airy like cotton. Cotton soft hair is most affected by humidity and happiest au naturale.

Spongy Hair, medium to thick texture with 65% or more shrinkage, feels firm and cushiony to the touch. It usually has a medium to small tight crinkle. When wet the hair is very dense.

Heavy hair texture has a large diameter and a deep strong curl. This hair is typically recognized as if it is a mixture of Native American or Asian hair type with African hair. It may shrink 40% or less.

Wiry hair has a glossy finish and is not very pliable. The hair diameter is usually large and the crinkle is loose. Although this hair type may have a thick diameter, it is often not dense at the crown and is mixed with non-wiry hair. The shrinkage will vary because the wiry hair does not shrink much but the other hair does.

Wispy hair is fine, thin, very lightweight and fly away. This texture hair will feel static if the correct shampoo is not used. The shrinkage depends on how curly the wispy hair is.

Judging by these hair types, my hair is a mixture of heavy (crown and back) and wispy around the edges. I like this hair typing better as it is not as hierarchic (?) as André's hair types. I mean it's obvious that straight hair is number 1 and the kinkiest hair is at the bottom.

 

[Ipanema]

Well, in that case, my hair is "spongy."

 

[Ayeshia]

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ms_kenesha said:
I think another thing hair typing leaves out is the actual texture of the hair, you can have curls the size of a coffee stirrer and they be silky, cottony, or wirey which would change how people looking at your hair would type you. I've seen 3Cs with silky hair and 3Bs with cottony hair, so that is a major difference that gets left out that I think makes a big difference. Because I would have more in common with a cottony 3B than a silky 4A...does that make sense

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you described my hair to the T ms K

My hair looks silky when wet, but once its dry its a cottony/curly texture. Thanks!

 

[inthepink]

I get confused by s shape....what exactly is s shaped hair?

or o shaped hair for that matter?

For that reason, I tend to "get" Andre's system better than Lois' system.

 

[Ayeshia]

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hairlove said:
I get confused by s shape....what exactly is s shaped hair?

or o shaped hair for that matter?

For that reason, I tend to "get" Andre's system better than Lois' system.

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Lois system confuses me too

 

[Chimma]

I like the hair typing, because it helps me to figure out who's advice would probably help me and who's I should take with a grain of salt. I think that a lot of people hairtype the same way that I do although there are sometimes a few people who don't. For example, I doubt that a type 2a would have ever recommended to me a K-Cutter.


I - however - don't think that you can judge a hair type by someone's new growth or relaxed hair texture. That is sometimes what makes it confusing in my eyes, because I have no trouble distinguishing between hair types of those who aren't relaxed. I assume that relaxed hair textures know their hair type from remembering their childhood days or an off time when they decided to grow out the relaxer. But even a type 4's hair can look really straight if you are only seeing the first one and a half inch.


My version: a modified cowgirl:
This is your hair pattern before blowdrying, combing out, pressing, products like gels, etc:

cowgirl said:
1. Your hair texture (not pattern)is naturally straight.
A type 1 person would not put a "relaxer" or "pressing comb" in their hair because it would practically melt or use "grease"for that matter. They would typically have to "perm" the hair to get it curly or wavy. Typically Caucasian, Asian, hispanic. Some Caucasians have curly hair but I consider that a curly pattern, not a curly texture.

<<I agree!
1a Asian hair
1b Caucasian straight hair


2. Your hair texture is naturally wavy.
A type 2 person could put a "mild relaxer" on their hair to make it straighter or just blow dry for a straight look. The hair when wet does not tangle excessively and is usually pretty straight until it starts to dry and then it begins to wave or curl up. Typically persons of mixed heritage, regardless of how far down the ancestral line the mix occurred. But most type 2's do not relax.

<<I agree!
2a Slightly wavy
2b Very wavy



3. Your hair texture is naturally coiled/kinky.
A "relaxer" or "pressing iron" is needed to straighten the hair. Can be partially straightened with a blow dryer but not fully straightened. If your naturally (not relaxed) hair can become an afro puff, then you're type 3. If Moms pressed your hair as a kid or you still press your hair then your a type 3.

<<I agree!
3a Larger, looser curls
3b Curls like Kelis



4. Your hair is naturally kinky/so kinky that it is straight, but does not naturally have the silky look, looks more like wool.
4a - very kinky curls, but you still see a curl pattern, can easily comb their hair out to a 4b
4b - hair so curly that it appears semi-straight at times



This seems pretty simple to me- and it's my guideline.


As cowgirl said, and I agree:
Now don't beat me up for this, it's just my general way of making things easier for me to understand. Because a type 1 person who could not use a pressing comb or relaxer without melting their hair is not the person I would go to for advice. I would typically go to a type 3 person for advice because they would better understand my issues.


Lois system I find confusing and not too helpful

 

[AngelicRose07]

i have a link to a different way of describing your hair type

http://www.ourhair.net/hairtypes_bottom.htm

 

[SweetJamaica]

Hair typing gives people an Idea of what you hair looks like. If someone said type 1 I would think straight hair and if they said 4b I would think afro textured hair. I have no problem with hair typing.

 

[NubianAngel]

Os describe a strand of hair that forms small coils. Think of a folded slinky, and how it forms an o when it isnt stretched.

S shaped hair is exactly how it sounds. A strand of hair forms a repeating patten of S shape. Think "S" curl

 

[L80sbabygirl]

I think hair typing can be helpful to an extent. If someone starts a thread about 4A hair, I'm more apt to click on that thread than I would a 3B thread for instance b/c the products, styles, etc would probably work best on my hair than products, styles 3Bs are using. But I think there are many differences within these hairtypes and almost no one falls into one neat little category. I don't think the hair typing system is a hierarchy unless one makes it one or actually thinks like that. Someone posted that Andre's system is obviously a hierarchy b/c 4s are on the bottom, but I disagree. If 4s were 1s then someone would complain that afro textured hair gets the lowest number on the hair scale. I consider myself a 4A b/c I think my hair is afro textured. It also has silky, well-defined curls, high frizz and lots of shrinkage. It looks pretty much the same wet or dry--very coily/curly. Combing does nothing to the curls; they spring right back into place. However, when I brushed my hair for the first time in nearly a year, the coils/curls disappeared and I could see the length better. I was glad b/c shrinkage can be so annoying. I think anyone on this board could describe a variety of things their hair does and the multi-textures on their head. To me, that's the beauty of black natural hair.

 

[NubianQueen]

If it weren't for hair typing, I would have to quit my job and buy a bunch of social security numbers

to put down as dependents so I could collect welfare and be able to eat while reading

ALL these hair posts trying to figure out what MIGHT work for my hair.

I understand that it is not an exact science and even though I read similar hair types that not all products/tools are going to work the same on my hair as others, HOWEVER, it gives me a reference to go by. If a more accurate system is developed and utilized, then wonderful. Until then, I will stick with what I think I know and read all of the natural 4a/b posts.

 

[Neroli]

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NubianQueen said:
If it weren't for hair typing, I would have to quit my job and buy a bunch of social security numbers

to put down as dependents so I could collect welfare and be able to eat while reading

ALL these hair posts trying to figure out what MIGHT work for my hair.

I understand that it is not an exact science and even though I read similar hair types that not all products/tools are going to work the same on my hair as others, HOWEVER, it gives me a reference to go by. If a more accurate system is developed and utilized, then wonderful. Until then, I will stick with what I think I know and read all of the natural 4a/b posts.

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Amen!