hair typing... why???

[MonPetite]

IMO with afro-textured hair, sometimes it just takes to make it "look" like a different curl type is product and technique. that's the versatility of our hair. which is another thing that makes typing difficult. i think it should be done on dry hair that hasn't had any extra product added or been styled in any fashion. but how many people with afro-textured hair are really willing to do that? then you gotta re-do your hair to actually style it afterwards

Co-sign.

I thought I was 4a then I saw a thread where people all agreed a woman with hair far tighter than mine was 4a and some guessed 3c though she had little curl pattern. At least that I could see.

So I thought, "Well, goodness! Am I a 3a then? Here I am unintentionally misleading people because my idea of 4a is different! Because I have defined coils that actually shine?". But they are as dense as "4z" hair....

So I guess I'm 3c with a couple 4a patches. Because my "4b" was her "3c".

I can't stand the system, personally.

Hair is hair.

A product is either going to give you too much or too little hold/protein/moisture. Not rocket science.

I think is anything we should go by INGREDIENTS, with the addition of techniques.

Not hair type.

I know 1as whose hair loves 4abcdefz products!

 

[Christa438]

I could see how people can get annoyed because there's always someone asking to be "typed" right after the last person asked. then they may not even have enough NG.

It doesn't bother me. I dont care, I'm not sensitive or insecure about hair typing. I look at it the same way as someone saying whether they are natural, texed, relaxed, transitioning... I dont always agree with some ladies, but since it aint serious to me I sho aint about to go out my way and tell a person I think she wrong about her own hair type. I dont ever feel separated just because im a 4 and someone else is a 3, we both on lhcf, we both be in most of the same threads, we both probably use some of the same products. It aint algebra [math was not my best subject lol], it's hair; therefore a number and letter dont worry me.

 

[FAMUDva]

Co-sign.

I thought I was 4a then I saw a thread where people all agreed a woman with hair far tighter than mine was 4a and some guessed 3c though she had little curl pattern. At least that I could see.

So I thought, "Well, goodness! Am I a 3a then? Here I am unintentionally misleading people because my idea of 4a is different! Because I have defined coils that actually shine?". But they are as dense as "4z" hair....

So I guess I'm 3c with a couple 4a patches. Because my "4b" was her "3c".

I can't stand the system, personally.

Hair is hair.

A product is either going to give you too much or too little hold/protein/moisture. Not rocket science.

I think is anything we should go by INGREDIENTS, with the addition of techniques.

Not hair type.

I know 1as whose hair loves 4abcdefz products!

I concur with ya sista... I concur!

 

[FAMUDva]

I could see how people can get annoyed because there's always someone asking to be "typed" right after the last person asked. then they may not even have enough NG.

It doesn't bother me. I dont care, I'm not sensitive or insecure about hair typing. I look at it the same way as someone saying whether they are natural, texed, relaxed, transitioning... I dont always agree with some ladies, but since it aint serious to me I sho aint about to go out my way and tell a person I think she wrong about her own hair type. I dont ever feel separated just because im a 4 and someone else is a 3, we both on lhcf, we both be in most of the same threads, we both probably use some of the same products. It aint algebra [math was not my best subject lol], it's hair; therefore a number and letter dont worry me.

I see what you're saying...
but it still confuses the hell outta me...

 

[Cheleigh]

You know what hair typing really does? It provides validation. It shows you that your hair is not alone in the world, and so you can admire how cute/long/curly/fly someone else's hair is with the same type and you have hope that you can or have achieve it too

That's about it. I will use products recommended by "any" hair type that has ingredients that my hair likes. Even if someone has my same hair type, if their hair likes ingredients I know my hair hates, forget it. The other thing hair typing doesn't tell you is about strand density, or texture, or porosity, or anything like that.

Hair typing enables me to say--oh, I'm a hair cousin of LadyLibra, a hair sister of Glamazon, a hair twin of whooptie whoop and aren't we all beautiful and fabulous?!

That said, I will shorthand say that I'm a type 4 because all that generally tells people is that I have "afro" textured hair. But I will rarely go into the 50% 4a/30% 3c/20% 4b type stuff because I don't know it at that level of detail and because it doesn't matter.

 

[Morenita]

Had a nightmare, so I'm kinda up for the moment.

Neway...I agree with so much of what has already been said, so I'm not going to go through and multiquote everyone, that'd be too much All in all though, yes, it is confusing, no, it doesn't matter that much and why do we do it? Partially for comparison's sake so we can get advice on what works best for our hair (even though most of us have "afro textured hair") and mainly because it is just a natural human tendency (I am part sociologist) to categorize ourselves into groups. Read, short, tall, lightskin, darkskin, here. For better, or for worse...

As an aside though, there aren't 11 types, there are just 9. Type 1 hair is just type 1, with no sub-categories. Type 1 hair is "asian straight" with no curl, wave or anything. The girl with knee-length hair from the other thread was like a 2a. She had several pics of her "naked" hair.

ETA: Ladylibra and Irresistible... beautiful, just beautiful. Brings a tear to my eye I hope that when I am finished growing out all of this relaxer, I can make my hair do all of those things too

 

[ladylibra]

OT Cheleigh, but i love that french braid in your avi!

As an aside though, there aren't 11 types, there are just 9. Type 1 hair is just type 1, with no sub-categories. Type 1 hair is "asian straight" with no curl, wave or anything. The girl with knee-length hair from the other thread was like a 2a. She had several pics of her "naked" hair.

ETA: Ladylibra and Irresistible... beautiful, just beautiful. Brings a tear to my eye I hope that when I am finished growing out all of this relaxer, I can make my hair do all of those things too

thanks hun!

IA with you that it's human nature to categorize.

however... the fact that Type 1 has no sub-categories but all the other types do bothers me. not all straight hair is created equal. now yes that girl with the knee-length hair appeared to be in the 2 family to me too. but i'm saying as far as Andre's "curl typing" system goes... it would be fine to say there are only 4 types - straight, wavy, curly and kinky. but IMO that should have nothing to do with curl SIZE, which also bothers me. that's where the 3c confusion comes from, cuz we know black people can be a huge 3b-sized curl, or even type 2 waves but it is still AFRO-TEXTURED. the sub-types should only explain that some wavy (2a) hair and some curly (3a) hair starts out straight and gets more texture as it grows longer, whereas other wavy (2b) hair and other curly (3b) hair shows its texture from the moment it pops up out of the scalp. that's why i think if hair typing is really gonna work, we have to classify curl type, texture, strand thickness and density. realistically, i know that is a lot of work and consideration... even though it would be more accurate. it's easier to just jump into a simple category i guess. just like when we say, "i'm black." if that's all i told you about myself over the Internet and you had NO photos to go off of... yeah you could conjure up a general idea of what i look like and some things about me. but it's not all there is to me obviously.

but i think i'm just biased cuz i don't fit neatly into any category

 

[glamazon386]

It wasn't that helpful when I was relaxed but as a natural it has been a big help. From looking at other people who have the same type hair as mine I've been able to find products and techniques that work well for my hair. It has eliminated a lot of trial and error and buying unneccessary products. Like for instance a lot of naturals use grease or oil... My hair doesn't like either one. Or heavy products. Or cheapie conditioners. Lots of things... I also like to look at fotkis that are the same hair type to get an idea of how my hair will look and behave when it gets longer.

I do think it gets annoying when all these threads keep popping up and people don't even have enough NG to tell. That or they have products and what not in their hair. You're supposed to wash your hair and let it airdry with no products or manipulation to see what the type is. I never really had a problem typing my hair I knew right off the bat. But if you have more that one texture I can see how it would be hard to tell.

 

[glamazon386]

Okay, so a new question... Do 3c, 4a, and 4b really behave that differently????? I mean in the grand scheme of things. I'm just curious since I'm thinking of taking some of the advice from that biracialhair.org page.

Yes, but it also depends on the hair. There are certain characteristics that are specific to each type. I've noticed more of this over at NP than here. Maybe because there is more of a variety to look at since the whole board is natural. We seem to have a lot more 3c and 4a people than true 4bs or Cnapps.

Like for instance a lot of the issues I've heard 4b's (not all but I have noticed a trend with certain posts) describe over there I do not have. I use shampoo reguarly (No Poo or cowashing did not work for me), I do not have issues with tangling/detangling, I don't have issues with dryness (or just looking dry. Some naturals have hair that always looks dry even though it isn't to the touch), I don't have problems with getting my edges to lay down or getting my hair to lay smooth/flat, I don't have massive shrinkage, and so on down the line.

But on the flip side, I do not like how my hair looks in some styles because of the texture and the density. I hate twists. I can't wear a fro without a lot of manipulation and even then it still doesn't stand up how I want it to so I don't bother. Now of course I didn't know all these things right away; I learned them over time from dealing with my own hair.

I also think we have to factor in the actual texture of the hair and the density. Fine hair no matter what the type is going to behave differently vs thick hair. Coarse hair is going to behave differently than hair that is not coarse.

 

[glamazon386]

You know what hair typing really does? It provides validation. It shows you that your hair is not alone in the world, and so you can admire how cute/long/curly/fly someone else's hair is with the same type and you have hope that you can or have achieve it too

That's about it. I will use products recommended by "any" hair type that has ingredients that my hair likes. Even if someone has my same hair type, if their hair likes ingredients I know my hair hates, forget it. The other thing hair typing doesn't tell you is about strand density, or texture, or porosity, or anything like that.

Hair typing enables me to say--oh, I'm a hair cousin of LadyLibra, a hair sister of Glamazon, a hair twin of whooptie whoop and aren't we all beautiful and fabulous?!

That said, I will shorthand say that I'm a type 4 because all that generally tells people is that I have "afro" textured hair. But I will rarely go into the 50% 4a/30% 3c/20% 4b type stuff because I don't know it at that level of detail and because it doesn't matter.

Your posts and album have been very helpful for me.

ETA: Lady Libra my hair is the same way. Depending on what I do to it it can look like different types.

 

[discodumpling]

Hair typing is bogus. My hair defy's catagorization...it will never fit comfortably into someone else's little box. I take tips from Becky, Yesenia, Rupee, & Yoko-San

 

[AfroKink]

Okay, so a new question... Do 3c, 4a, and 4b really behave that differently????? I mean in the grand scheme of things. I'm just curious since I'm thinking of taking some of the advice from that biracialhair.org page.

Yes. People seem to focus a lot on products but what about styling and techniques.

3c: "I wash my hair loose and I make sure not to pile my hair on top of my head and I detangle/comb going down with the stream of water."
--> 4b trying to the same could be at risk of cleaned and well conditioned knots tangles and more knots

4b: "I put my hair in 8 fat twists when I wash. I squeeze the shampoo and conditioner through and give my scalp a good rub"
--> 3c trying to the same could be at risk of having the twists slip out when wet with conditioner, defeating the purpose of spending time to twist in the first place

3c: "My wash n' go's are just that, I wash then I shake my hair so the coils/curls come together, then I'm out the door."
--> 4b trying to do the same could be at risk of whiplash because her curls/coils do not have definition

4b: "My gravity defying chunky fro is the best. I sleep in 8 fat twists overnight. In the morning I undo them fluffy them out and I'm ready for a day of occluding the sun.
--> 3c trying to do the same could be at risk of a nice but floppy twist out

3c: "To create my bun/ponytail/ponypuff I wet my hair and smooth it back with my hands and into the holder. If I want to define my waves more or if I want an even more slick look I use some aloe gel."
-->4b trying to do the same could be at risk of high shrinkage due to water and thus having nothing to pull back. She could also be at risk of pulling back to tight trying to get that slick look but only succeeding in losing her edges.

4b: "To create my two strand twists I just grab and twist. No I don't use any products for hold and they can last 2 weeks even with washes"
--> 3c trying to do the same could be at risk of a pretty head of twists that slowly unravel during the day, having to retwist every night and having the twists not make it through wash day.

that's my take anyway...



Lys

 

[AfroKink]

OT Cheleigh, but i love that french braid in your avi!



thanks hun!

IA with you that it's human nature to categorize.

however... the fact that Type 1 has no sub-categories but all the other types do bothers me. not all straight hair is created equal. now yes that girl with the knee-length hair appeared to be in the 2 family to me too. but i'm saying as far as Andre's "curl typing" system goes... it would be fine to say there are only 4 types - straight, wavy, curly and kinky. but IMO that should have nothing to do with curl SIZE, which also bothers me. that's where the 3c confusion comes from, cuz we know black people can be a huge 3b-sized curl, or even type 2 waves but it is still AFRO-TEXTURED. the sub-types should only explain that some wavy (2a) hair and some curly (3a) hair starts out straight and gets more texture as it grows longer, whereas other wavy (2b) hair and other curly (3b) hair shows its texture from the moment it pops up out of the scalp. that's why i think if hair typing is really gonna work, we have to classify curl type, texture, strand thickness and density. realistically, i know that is a lot of work and consideration... even though it would be more accurate. it's easier to just jump into a simple category i guess. just like when we say, "i'm black." if that's all i told you about myself over the Internet and you had NO photos to go off of... yeah you could conjure up a general idea of what i look like and some things about me. but it's not all there is to me obviously.

but i think i'm just biased cuz i don't fit neatly into any category

That's the LOIS system, isn't it? I think if more of us adopted that we would be able to use the "type" to make better hair recommendations than we can with Andre's system.

Yes, but it also depends on the hair. There are certain characteristics that are specific to each type. I've noticed more of this over at NP than here. Maybe because there is more of a variety to look at since the whole board is natural. We seem to have a lot more 3c and 4a people than true 4bs or Cnapps.

I've noticed that too. Both over there and here.

Lys

 

[anon123]

I also think we have to factor in the actual texture of the hair and the density. Fine hair no matter what the type is going to behave differently vs thick hair. Coarse hair is going to behave differently than hair that is not coarse.

I think so, too. The Andre system is just a starting point. I do identify as 4b, and fortunately (?) I don't really need any slashes or dashes or anything for that. But also all 4b isn't exactly like mine, and the difference between fine/sparse hair and dense hair is a really big one, too.

As for the LOIS system, in my particular case I think that one would be more confusing for me because I see almost every letter of the alphabet not only on my head, but in a single strand (well, maybe not 'I')

Yes. People seem to focus a lot on products but what about styling and techniques.

3c: "I wash my hair loose and I make sure not to pile my hair on top of my head and I detangle/comb going down with the stream of water."
--> 4b trying to the same could be at risk of cleaned and well conditioned knots tangles and more knots

4b: "I put my hair in 8 fat twists when I wash. I squeeze the shampoo and conditioner through and give my scalp a good rub"
--> 3c trying to the same could be at risk of having the twists slip out when wet with conditioner, defeating the purpose of spending time to twist in the first place

3c: "My wash n' go's are just that, I wash then I shake my hair so the coils/curls come together, then I'm out the door."
--> 4b trying to do the same could be at risk of whiplash because her curls/coils do not have definition

4b: "My gravity defying chunky fro is the best. I sleep in 8 fat twists overnight. In the morning I undo them fluffy them out and I'm ready for a day of occluding the sun.
--> 3c trying to do the same could be at risk of a nice but floppy twist out

3c: "To create my bun/ponytail/ponypuff I wet my hair and smooth it back with my hands and into the holder. If I want to define my waves more or if I want an even more slick look I use some aloe gel."
-->4b trying to do the same could be at risk of high shrinkage due to water and thus having nothing to pull back. She could also be at risk of pulling back to tight trying to get that slick look but only succeeding in losing her edges.

4b: "To create my two strand twists I just grab and twist. No I don't use any products for hold and they can last 2 weeks even with washes"
--> 3c trying to do the same could be at risk of a pretty head of twists that slowly unravel during the day, having to retwist every night and having the twists not make it through wash day.

that's my take anyway...

Lys

So well said! Hair care is not all products! It isn't that I won't take advice from all hair types. Well, let me be honest, it kinda is. But that wasn't the case when I first came on the hair boards. I was having so much difficulty with my hair. I had been natural for over a decade but didn't know how to retain length or do very many styles. So I tried a lot of suggestions. And how good those suggestions were for my hair was more than a random association based on the hair type of the person who gave the advice. The more they were my type (4b + dense) the more likely that what they suggested was actually going to be feasible for my hair. Was it a guarantee? No. Was it the case that I had never gotten good advice from someone who doesn't share my hair type? No. But those were definitely strong patterns.

I'm still heartbroken over that no wash and go thing for me. For real, y'all, that broke my damn heart.

 

[LaPetiteCoquette]

I agree the hair typing can/does lead to separatism and also is not totally accurate. I guess its just for descriptive purposes , even though its lacking totally still. I also agree that there isnt that vast of a difference in what products will work for us or what wont, IMO thats more of your own hair's preference thing rather than a hair type thing.

I totally agree with this, Irresistible. And that's why the hair typing thing annoys me. erplexed. There are some things that 1As use that I can use, and there are some things that 4zzzzs use that I wouldn't even dream of putting on my hair. I feel like it's just another way to separate hair types and honestly IMO it's just a fancier and modern way of saying "good hair" or "bad hair." Since not everything or every method works for everybody in the same hair type, it really doesn't make sense to hair type.

I "hate" those threads that are based solely in hair type. I read some of them and I'm like "ok ... so a type 3 is asking the question only to other type 3s and I can answer it but I better not b/c they didn't ask me " Transitioners do it sometimes, naturals sometimes do it (though I understand why it may be relevant in those two cases), so do type 4s and I'm thinking "Why do we gotta discriminate like that?" Anyway, let me be done with my Saturday AM rant.