4th date = coloring???

[sunnydaze]

While I am rather conservative when it comes to sex, I can appreciate Nina's viewpoint.

I understand the viewpoints of grown (stress grown) women who wait till the 22nd date, till marriage and even those who choose not to wait at all...if it is truly what they want and they own the decision and are doing it for themelves and not just in the name of rewarding a man.

 

[Triniwegian]

Like Ninadef said, a man is not defined by rules.
Color when you are ready.

Shoot, if you want to color on your 1st date then go ahead, sometimes there is that spark that just triggers all kids of tingling emotions..lol

Do it at your own time and screw the rules...no pun intended.

 

[tiara76]

never heard that from a dude

 

[BeautifulFlower]

Thanks for the compliment.

Now if coloring is your thing by all means more power to you. i used to do this too so no judgment placed. If that's what you do, then my comment don't apply to you.

Now, I am proudly a Christian and this is my perspective on the matter of premarital sex.

But like the old saying goes, "Why buy the cow when you can have the milk for free?" I hated hearing it growing up but its old wisdom at its best.

Not to say if you do have sex, he wont marry you but ALOT of my good friends that are good men will tell me time and time again...if you having sex with your man without the commitment, you're in a losing battle already. There are exceptions to every rule but they are the exception not the rule.

Because for majority of the women out there, they dont want to just be having sex with men. They want to be in a committed relationship and sex (at its best) should be shared with someone that has your best intentions at heart (preferrably a husband or for some a committed to be husband).

ETA: I would never encourage sex as a bargaining tool.

Hold up, wait!

Sex is not only for the man, if I "give it up" (haven't heard that since high school) it's because I want the SEX.
For me.

Sex is not a tradeable commodity, it's for my enjoyment.
And, in my experience, it doesn't scare men, it most of the times make them harder to get rid of.

I would never get serious, pronounce the C word or even let him near my finger with a ring until he has provened himself in that category (among a few others).

That said, I LOVE your hair!

 

[MissJ]

Seriously, this thread is too much. I would never pay attention to such a rule.

 

[Ramya]

If you're screwing in order to 'get' a man then I can see how you would be upset if that didn't work out.

As a christian my celibacy has NOTHING to do with trying to get/keep/marry a man. It is simply following instructions. I don't even think that's why God told men and women to be celibate.

 

[Glib Gurl]

If you're screwing in order to 'get' a man then I can see how you would be upset if that didn't work out.

As a christian my celibacy has NOTHING to do with trying to get/keep/marry a man. It is simply following instructions. I don't even think that's why God told men and women to be celibate.

What do you think re: the bold? (I have my own ideas but I'm interested to see what you have to say on this point.)

 

[BeautifulFlower]

If you're screwing in order to 'get' a man then I can see how you would be upset if that didn't work out.

As a christian my celibacy has NOTHING to do with trying to get/keep/marry a man. It is simply following instructions. I don't even think that's why God told men and women to be celibate.

Thank you for this post.
I dont know if this is a valid reason but...

Coloring and emotions are so powerful. Its bonds people together. It can make you (men or women) put up with things you wouldnt normally put up with. Someone once said, Sex will make you dumb. If enjoyed with the wrong person, you can get caught in an emotionally trap and deal with all kinds of crap. This aint for the younger girls either because alot of older women do alot of stupid stuff because the coloring is sooo good.

This is just one reason, I reserve sex for a commitment. If I am going to give my body, I want to make sure my emotions are cared for too.

 

[Glib Gurl]

I reserve sex for a commitment. If I am going to give my body, I want to make sure my emotions are cared for too.

This is worthy of quoting

 

[Rastafarai]

T
Not to say if you do have sex, he wont marry you but ALOT of my good friends that are good men will tell me time and time again...if you having sex with your man without the commitment, you're in a losing battle already. There are exceptions to every rule but they are the exception not the rule.

Please definite commitment

Because for majority of the women out there, they dont want to just be having sex with men. They want to be in a committed relationship and sex (at its best) should be shared with someone that has your best intentions at heart (preferrably a husband or for some a committed to be husband).

And the majority of women are having sex with men who they are dating/in a relationship with without having an engagement ring, wedding ring, wedding date, etc.

Like they say, you're single until married. IMHO, a man and woman are not truly committed to each other until they have that paper.

Verbal commitments/dating with intent to marry/engagements can end at any given moment. Why should a woman hinge her decision to open up the cookie jar on such variables?

 

[Rastafarai]

I don't even think that's why God told men and women to be celibate.

He did? Let me guess..."fornicators and adulterers shall not inherit God's Kingdom"...?

If only people knew the true meaning/definition of "fornicator"...

 

[tiara76]

He did? Let me guess..."fornicators and adulterers shall not inherit God's Kingdom"...?

If only people knew the true meaning/definition of "fornicator"...

care to expand?

 

[MissJ]

Ahhhhh NO! Not even close.

If this is the general rule, no wonder we have so many messed up folks.

And baby mamas!

 

[Ramya]

What do you think re: the bold? (I have my own ideas but I'm interested to see what you have to say on this point.)

I don't want to move this thread far off course but in my own studies I realized that there is no reference to 'pre-marital sex' nor did fornication really mean pre-marital sex. Sexual immorality is usually what it translates to or prostitution. Paul uses marriage as a 'cure' for sexual immorality although I personally wouldn't want to be married to someone who is sexually immoral in the biblical sense.

The best argument *to me* is that it creates a spiritual bond and physical familiarity between the two lovers. I certainly buy physical (especially if it was enjoyable) as you both will *know* each others bodies but I'm not totally sold on spiritually because for a spiritual bond to occur the partner(s) have to be spiritually *open* to one another. Studies have shown however that sometimes women release the hormone that allows them to bond with their children, during sex. (to a lesser degree of course) and I'm sure God knew that in His design but in order for that to be believable He'd need to have created man in a similar fashion.. at least in my mind.

But that's about as far as I've gotten so far.

 

[MD_Lady]

I was just talking to a friend and she was saying that guys have told her that if you don't color with them on the fourth date then they won't date you any further.

Generally true in your experience?

We wouldn't have any dates after he told me this. And to answer your question, I've never dated a man who gave me a timeline.

 

[Rastafarai]

care to expand?

It was first introduced in 1303 and comes from the Latin word "fornix" which is translated to mean "a vault" or "an arch" which was a place where prostitutes would gather to trade their commodity, similar to a brothel.

Of course the Bible was not originally written in Latin but written in Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic and took on a meaning of itself through the course of history. To date it is used as an umbrella to categorize fornication to mean pre-marital sex, oral sex, sexual fantasies, masturbation, and so on and so forth. On this basis, I suppose even married folks are fornicators if they were to engage in such acts as oral sex, masturbation, etc etc.

I don't want to make this into a religious debate but I would be interested in knowing the difference between "adultery" and "fornication" or if there exist such a difference.

 

[song_of_serenity]

adultery=between married individuals or one married/one non married. Breaking the law of marriage by having sex with a person other than your husband/wife

fornication=premarital sex.

And Glib, I've never heard this rule. :S

 

[Ramya]

It was first introduced in 1303 and comes from the Latin word "fornix" which is translated to mean "a vault" or "an arch" which was a place where prostitutes would gather to trade their commodity, similar to a brothel.

Of course the Bible was not originally written in Latin but written in Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic and took on a meaning of itself through the course of history. To date it is used as an umbrella to categorize fornication to mean pre-marital sex, oral sex, sexual fantasies, masturbation, and so on and so forth.

I don't want to make this into a religious debate but I would be interested in knowing the difference between "adultery" and "fornication" or if there exist such a difference.

from my understanding adultery is the sin not 'premarital sex' or fornication the way it is used today.

 

[tailormade84]

what fool has this rule? ladies, please have enough class and self-dignity to let his sorry tail walk right on out the door....

 

[Rastafarai]

adultery=between married individuals or one married/one non married. Breaking the law of marriage by having sex with a person other than your husband/wife

fornication=premarital sex.

And Glib, I've never heard this rule. :S

Where in the Bible does it explicitly state fornication = pre-marital sex?

And I know there are quite a few scriptures in the Bible that associate married men as being fornicators, so its not as cut and dry as it appears.

 

[Rastafarai]

from my understanding adultery is the sin not 'premarital sex' or fornication the way it is used today.

Interesting. Then why does the Bible state fornicators will also not inherit God's Kingdom? It associates fornication as a sin.

 

[tailormade84]

from my understanding adultery is the sin not 'premarital sex' or fornication the way it is used today.

she got it right - premarital sex falls under the context of adultery (one reason is because as Christians our bodies are "married"/dedicated to God and only He has the right to our bodies. He may allow for you to marry, but at that time you are still coming before Him to bless and unite your union with a man.)

 

[southerncitygirl]

Thats some bull.

Sorry this is one of the reason so many women (black, women, or indifferent) are single because we give it up with no ring and no commitment. If we just had enough strength and savvy to make these men wait before they get to color all over you , you wouldnt complain everytime a man got the goods then dropped you anyway.

Contrary to popular belief, if a man wants you, he WILL wait for you.

I don't think this is the only reason women are single as there are multiple factors:
1. I like many women prefer quality to quantity and this is why I'm single not dating,and celibate.
2. Holding out doesn't equal marriage or enagagement even if he likes you, in life there are no guarantees.
3. I like many women,want to date someone at or above my level not below, black men need to step up their game.
4.women need to stop relying on men to approach us, often they get tired of rejection and would find it refreshing if the tables were turned, and they wouldn't be as mean to us as we are to them ( been told this by male friends many times)
5. We need to expand our options and date outside our race, yes men of other ethinicities are checking for us.
6. Many black women want to focus on their careers and being the best person they can be so they take a breather from dating.

Realistically I could have a man and be married by now or color 24/7 but I want a quality SO or mate when I'm ready for one. Marriage isn't in the picture for me and may never be. I go through cycles of being alone or wanting to be with someone, but i think whats most important is making sure I'm happy, fufilled, healthy/fit with or without a man, cause relationships don't make or complete you. OP i've colored with men "too soon" and not gotten dropped in fact quite a few i have remained friends with.

Lastly I'm a person who will color cause I want to and Mama needs to test drive her vehicle round the block and on the hwy before making a a long term commitment, cause vehicles depreciate once you drive them off the lotI don't want to be stuck with a lemon.

I don't know about this 4th date thing GG, never heard of it. At some point any man dog or not is going to want to color whether he's just about sex or not, its human nature. Some just might play it cooler than others and not be so obvious.

 

[NaturalPath]

wow I waited a whole full year! It was hard, trust me but I figured if he really loved me...like my momma used to say; he would wait.

IMO I can't imagine coloring only after knowing someone for 4 days

 

[likewtr4chklit]

You color when you want to, whether it's the 4th date or the 40th. I don't see a rule saying you have to give a man your body by a certain time.

 

[likewtr4chklit]

Because for majority of the women out there, they dont want to just be having sex with men. They want to be in a committed relationship and sex (at its best) should be shared with someone that has your best intentions at heart (preferrably a husband or for some a committed to be husband).

ETA: I would never encourage sex as a bargaining tool.

This I agree with b/c a lot of women like to fool themselves into believing that sex isn't connected with emotion for them. Very few women can pull that off, so if you know that you can't pull it off and you will be heart broken if a dude hits and quits shortly after....you should wait until you and the man you are interested in are exclusive.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

Coloring happens when you as the grown woman feels that the time to get some crayon is appropriate for you. Period. If it's the first, fourth or four hundredth date. Now men are well within their rights to decide they don't want to wait and bounce, but the womans decision shouldn't be affected by the fear that he may leave.

I am a fan of whatever a woman wants to do with her body and she should proceed how she sees fit, but I do think that if you are trying to be in a nonsexual relationship til marriage you are going to seriously have to tap into some other uber feminine skills to keep that relationship from fizzling out. I'm not talking about cooking and cleaning neither.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think that sex is a commodity. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be so much debate/speculation over why it's right or wrong to do it at whatever time from both the male and female perspectives.

People look at sex as a commodity as a negative, but the truth of the matter is that most of us women just aren't trying to let any and everybody run through us. I'd like to think that there is still a majority who is picky when it comes to who is fathering their children. We hold out for the man we want as opposed to just any dude who offers. So there is an intrinsic value of sex for most of us. On the other side of the fence, you'd be hard pressed to find a healthy virile man who'd say that sex adds no value to his life and that he wouldn't make adjustments in his life to get access to sex.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tonight is Shabbat so if anybody has questions I probably won't be able to answer until tomorrow night.

 

[Theo]

No... the fourth date thing is bs.

That being said, guys will tailor the length of time they are willing to wait based on a lot of different things. I've heard a guy say that he figured he'd have to wait "xx" amount of months because that particular girl had a lot going for her and her self-esteem was high.

I found that really interesting, if not a bit sinister. I was a little irritated, then I realized sex is really important to some people, and they are just not willing to gamble on personal satisfaction in that area.... no matter how great of a "catch" a person is.

 

[LadyPaniolo]

This topic reminds me of a guy I met way back in high school. When we met, he told me cockily how he had met another girl and laid down the law: if she doesn't give up the booty in x time period, he's out. I just made a noncommittal sound and changed the subject.

Years later, he had gotten to know me and to respect and admire me... he wanted us to have an exclusive relationship. I refused again and again. He never understood the reason why; he thought it was because he was physically ugly to me. The real reason is because that mentality he revealed with his nasty comment years prior.

 

[LadyPaniolo]

Hold up, wait!

Sex is not only for the man, if I "give it up" (haven't heard that since high school) it's because I want the SEX.
For me.

Sex is not a tradeable commodity, it's for my enjoyment.
And, in my experience, it doesn't scare men, it most of the times make them harder to get rid of.

I would never get serious, pronounce the C word or even let him near my finger with a ring until he has provened himself in that category (among a few others).

That said, I LOVE your hair!

You know, Nina_Def... things are a bit different here in the US. Culturally, we have a different view of casual sex than I have read that Swedes do, generally.

BUT. The bolded has been my experience 1,000%! When I don't even think too deeply about the relationship, when I'm not stressed over how much he likes me etc and I just decide that I want some pleasure and by god, he's gonna give it to me... those men just HAD to have me. I would try to shake them loose but they would be like gnats buzzing around me for ages after I was done with them!

I wonder why that is? I guess maybe it does play into that "chase" theory, because the man knows he has lain with you physically but he still has not captured your heart, so now he keeps trying for that? Or it could be that the sex ends up being hotter when the woman can totally relax? I don't really know how or why... but I have definitely had that experience with men.