3c? 4c? Unfortunately, it has always mattered.

[msa]

Thanks to everyone who answered my question. Since most black women in my area wear weaves or straight styles I doubt I'll be able to see this variation in hair texture irl. I've seen it on the board so that will suffice.

 

[nysister]

I have a question...where is everyone seeing all these light skinned 4ab chicks and dark skinned 1a-3c chicks? Irl there aren't even enough women wearing their hair naturally for me to make that determination...but of the naturals I've seen, I haven't seen any of the aforementioned women walking around.

I have a Black friend (brown skin) that's 2A, though it can look like a one. Many of the women in my family on my Mom's side, were/are brown with 2a/b hair. Someone mentioned where you live makes a difference. I think that's probably the case.

 

[SmartyPants]

PLUS... not only do white people give me a hard time, but black people tell me that I'm white! so then its like... who the f am I????
I mean I used to think like that but I know who I am now...
I used to play up my blackness by wearing wooden beads and twists and chunky earrings LOL. I still dress like that but I wonder if I wouldve stuck with my emo look in middle school if people didn't start questioning my blackness...

OK... I have to ask...

Did you go to school with all blind folks? Did all they have to go on in determining your race is listening to you speak? Seriously, I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around the possibility of black folks calling you white!

 

[hairsothick]

Interesting that you should point this out! Because as a PF, I took good advice from PGs and Cs.

Same with my haircare journey - I've taken good advice from people with looser textures, as well as people with tighter textures. And I believe my hair has benefitted from it.

Okay, but I still think that the best advice will come from someone who shares the same hair type.

If I was a quarterback, I'd want advice from other quarterbacks. If I was a base on a cheer squad, I'd want advice from other bases. If I was a pitcher on a baseball team, I'd want advice from other pitchers.

Sure the other players could give me good advice, but no one would be able to give better advice than the player who shares the same position that I do. IMO.

 

[NikStarrr]

I have noticed that threads like these are prime territory for folks to "toot" their own horn.

LOL. I kinda' agree...



I also agree with the OP's original post. You explained it well.

 

[ladylibra]

Sure the other players could give me good advice, but no one would be able to give better advice than the player who shares the same position that I do.

Yes, I agree with that. But, I think if someone gives you good advice that doesn't play your position/have the same hair type as you... you shouldn't discount it, just because they don't play your position/don't have the same hair type.

As I've said before, I think most of us on the board aren't like this... it's people IRL who quickly dismiss good advice because they won't open up their minds.

 

[*Muffin*]

DISCLAIMER: This thread is partially in response to the thread started by GoingNatural on her difficulties of getting women to listen to her hair advice as someone who does not have 4a/b or highly textured hair. That being said, most of the comments and/or observations in this post are not in direct response to anything GoingNatural said or posted but are in response to something that has been bothering me for awhile. She has lovely hair, a lot of the points she brought up in her post were vaild and no one should use her hair texture as a reason to invalidate the hard work and effort she puts into having lovely hair. That being said...

1) Some hair care practices are universal.--I think that there are a lot of "general" hair care principles that are applicable and can be beneficial to all hair types. An example would be protective styling. Whether you like to practice it or not, protective styling is generally beneficial for all hair typles.
2) Hair texture DOES play a role in how successful certain hair techniques are.--Whether or not Andre got it right or not with his limited hair typing system I think that most of us can acknowledge that there is a difference in how certain hair textures respond to different techniques and/or products. Especially those of us with multiple hair textures on our heads. That being said, what work for one 3c might not work for another and what works for a 1b just might work for a 4a. Ultimately, it is up to the individual and how willing they are to try different techniques. However, as someone else has stated there is a LOT of hair advice out there.
3) People are more likely to take advice from someone who is like them. AND it makes sense.--It makes sense to gravitate towards the advice that comes from someone who is "like me." As someone with dry skin that almost never has acne, it is unlikely that I will take advice on my skin care regimen from someone with oily acne prone skin. Is it possible the same things could work for both of us? Yes. Does it make more sense to take advice from someone else with dry sking that is not prone to acne? Yes.
4) While it can be frustrating, it doesn't really make any sense to deny that a lot of the variations among Blacks, especially as it realtes to our hair and skin color, are a result of mixing.--I understand that as a lighter skinned BLack person it can be frustrating to work hard at caring for your hair and to have all of your success attributed to being mixed or lighter skinned. But ya know what? As a darker skinned woman I am tired of people assuming that I can't grow long hair because I have dark skin. Or automatically assuming that it's not mine. I am tired of seeing little dark skinned girls with low self esteem because they rarely see women who look "like" them held up as beautiful. I am also tired of hearing ignorant young men call me and women who look like me "dark butts." I am tired of people assuming that I am going to hate on a lighter skinned woman just because she is lighter skinned. The fact that Halle Berry is considered the most beautiful Black woman in the world burns my grits. Why does a Black woman have to have lighter skin or European features (in her case, rhinoplasty) to be considered beautiful by the masses at large? Before you get mad at me, think about it. Is it ugly? Yes. Does it make it any less true? No. If you think I am lying please spend 5-10 minutes watching BET. (Anything more might be tramatic)

Is any of this the fault of lighter skinned women? HECK NAW! But, I think that it is somewhat undermining for us to pretend that the world, and especially the Black community, doesn't see us as different.

5) People with "looser" textured hair are treated differently than those with more tightly curled hair. --Let's admit it. I have 4a/3c hair that forms loose s curls in the back and coils at the front. Since I went natural there has been no end to the stream of support I have received from most people to stay natural. One of my sorors has 4b/cish hair and people are constantly asking her, "When are you going to do something to your hair?" It would be silly for me to deny that the affirmation that I get from outsiders about how nice my natural hair looks doesn't have something to do with my motivation to stay natural. It would also be silly for me to deny that she has had a more difficult time staying natural when everyone, including members of her own family, think she should "slap a relaxer" on her head. This mentality isn't new. All we have to do is talk to our parents about how different Afros were perceived back in the 70's. While I am not suggesting that there is anything to pity about someone with more highly textured hair it really is annoying when I hear someone like one of my other sorority sisters (3b) brag about how she has been natural her whole life and never had a relaxer. Um, well chick, no one ever told you, you NEEDED a relaxer. I am not saying that we don't all face pressure, I just think that it is important that we acknowledge differences.​

*sighs* There is so much more that could be said, and it a lot of ways I am sure that I have said too much. That being said, I think that it is important that we all CELEBRATE the beauty we see in eachother...which includes the differences.​

This is perhaps one of the best posts I ever read on this site. Everything I've ever felt about this subject (light skinned vs. darkskinned; loose hair texture vs. tightly coiled; how those with looser textures are commended for going natural IRL whereas those with tighter textures are constantly told "You need to fix your hair") It's all there. I especially like the part about the girl having 3b hair bragging that she never relaxed nor did she ever feel the need to relax. She was never urged to! Not all of our hair care experiences are similar and all of us face different pressures. People with the socially "ideal" hair type may face unfair jealousy and scrutiny from people who don't have the "ideal" hair type, and also those who don't have the "ideal" hair type will probably be mocked or looked down upon by those who do fit the "image".

 

[GoingNatural]

This is perhaps one of the best posts I ever read on this site. Everything I've ever felt about this subject (light skinned vs. darkskinned; loose hair texture vs. tightly coiled; how those with looser textures are commended for going natural IRL whereas those with tighter textures are constantly told "You need to fix your hair") It's all there. I especially like the part about the girl having 3b hair bragging that she never relaxed nor did she ever feel the need to relax. She was never urged to! Not all of our hair care experiences are similar and all of us face different pressures. People with the socially "ideal" hair type may face unfair jealousy and scrutiny from people who don't have the "ideal" hair type, and also those who don't have the "ideal" hair type will probably be mocked or looked down upon by those who do fit the "image".

A lot of "3's" are encouraged, urged, forced to relax. That's why many of us are on the board. learning to maintain our relaxers, transitioning to natural and then maintain that style or if we never relaxed, learning to maintain the unruly, frizzy mess that is 3hair when you don't know what to do with it.

 

[LaBelleLL]

I have a question...where is everyone seeing all these light skinned 4ab chicks and dark skinned 1a-3c chicks? Irl there aren't even enough women wearing their hair naturally for me to make that determination...but of the naturals I've seen, I haven't seen any of the aforementioned women walking around.

Africa is a great place to start. Among the Hausa people (a nomadic people) - many have what we would classify as 3C hair; they are dark skinned and extremely beautiful women.

My Somalian, Eritrean, Kenyan friends are also of the 3a, b, c persuasion.

For dark skinned 1a women, I have yet to see that in person but i'd give a go at Australia , South America, Cap Vert and Madagascar.

ETA: Perhaps it's your location, or yes, you just haven't noticed it, but these women are mos def around here in the US.....you don't have to go up and down in the world searching for them, lol.

ETA: AND I just realized that you say you've seen this in the boards AFTER posting this...

 

[nichole21]

A lot of "3's" are encouraged, urged, forced to relax. That's why many of us are on the board. learning to maintain our relaxers, transitioning to natural and then maintain that style or if we never relaxed, learning to maintain the unruly, frizzy mess that is 3hair when you don't know what to do with it.

I agree. My mom slapped a relaxer in my hair at 5 years old. I was always raised to have a relaxer... whether big curls, tight curls, coils, etc many women choose to relax or feel pressured to relax, from type 2 - 4. I'm glad to finally break free of that pressure and going natural has been liberating. I still have family members looking at me half crazy at the thought of natural hair.

 

[SweetSpirit86]

OK... I have to ask...

Did you go to school with all blind folks? Did all they have to go on in determining your race is listening to you speak? Seriously, I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around the possibility of black folks calling you white!

As you can see from my picture, I'm clearly not white...but as someone stated (I don't remember which thread, sorry!), black people can be very cruel to things they don't understand. Or things they simply feel is a betrayal. Speaking proper English is an example of this. I've been told I'm not black enough, or that I'm a burnt white girl. People make me so mad. It's not only an insult to me, but our entire race. It's like saying black people are incapable of intelligent speech.

 

[SweetSpirit86]

Africa is a great place to start. Among the Hausa people (a nomadic people) - many have what we would classify as 3C hair; they are dark skinned and extremely beautiful women.

My Somalian, Eritrean, Kenyan friends are also of the 3a, b, c persuasion.

For dark skinned 1a women, I have yet to see that in person but i'd give a go at Australia , South America, Cap Vert and Madagascar.

ETA: Perhaps it's your location, or yes, you just haven't noticed it, but these women are mos def around here in the US.....you don't have to go up and down in the world searching for them, lol.

ETA: AND I just realized that you say you've seen this in the boards AFTER posting this...

The little girl who was adopted by the white couple. Um, her foster dad learned how to take care of her hair and was on the news for it. Wasn't she Ethiopian or something? Little grown was as brown as can be, and looked 3c/4a to me.

 

[LaBelleLL]

The little girl who was adopted by the white couple. Um, her foster dad learned how to take care of her hair and was on the news for it. Wasn't she Ethiopian or something? Little grown was as brown as can be, and looked 3c/4a to me.

Yep, many Ethiopians can mos def be found to have 3c/4a hair as well.
and 4b
4c
4z

 

[Cherokee-n-Black]

Interesting that you should point this out! Because as a PF, I took good advice from PGs and Cs.

Same with my haircare journey - I've taken good advice from people with looser textures, as well as people with tighter textures. And I believe my hair has benefitted from it.

Ohh! I love sports metaphors (former SG--although we called it a "wing" in my day). Here's the thing, PG's C's et al have different functions. I would compare this to styling techniques. But when it comes to care and maintenance of hair, I would compare this to "how do I run faster, jump higher, put on more muscle?" Techniques for improving in those areas (all of which you would need to be effective in your role) don't change--And that would be your basic hair care regimens, tips, and tricks. Now, there are physical differences that may mean someone's technique may not work for you, but some of them are tried and true and work for a lot of people, so why not try them? Just being a little devil's advocate-y, as I understand why like would listen to like. Just sayin'.

 

[FlowerHair]

ive seen "white" ppl with type 4 hair, but ive never seen a black person with type 1 hair. (i dont mean dark skinned indian ppl that looks black from far away that happen to have straight hair. i mean black ppl)

and black ppl with 3c isnt a shocker to me, because 3c hair is still an "african" texture. i dont associate other races with 3c hair.

when ppl talk about mixed hair , i think 3b, but ironically the vast majority of mixed ppl ive met either had type 2 hair or type 3c upwards to 4c. thats just my experience.

I think Ananda Lewis has one of the straightest hairs I've seen in a black person...it seems to be 2c or something.

I think we've had ppl on the board claiming to have type 1 hair, but I don't know if they went with their relaxed texture or not...

 

[SEMO]

A lot of "3's" are encouraged, urged, forced to relax. That's why many of us are on the board. learning to maintain our relaxers, transitioning to natural and then maintain that style or if we never relaxed, learning to maintain the unruly, frizzy mess that is 3hair when you don't know what to do with it.

I think natural hair as a whole has become more accepted in the last five years. On my first trip to the stylist (in 6th grade) she offered me a relaxer, when I had come in for a press (and I did end up relaxing though I hadn't planned on it).

When I went back natural a few years ago some told me I should never have been relaxed in the first place. But back when I became relaxed I got no flack and only kudos on my decision.

But I do think that some people give more kudos now to naturals with a looser texture. And I find that sad. But even having what some consider "good" hair, I still get WAY more attention (male and female), compliments, and affirmation when my hair is flat ironed straight (but that may also have to do with the fact that it looks much longer then).

 

[ladylibra]

Ohh! I love sports metaphors (former SG--although we called it a "wing" in my day). Here's the thing, PG's C's et al have different functions. I would compare this to styling techniques. But when it comes to care and maintenance of hair, I would compare this to "how do I run faster, jump higher, put on more muscle?" Techniques for improving in those areas (all of which you would need to be effective in your role) don't change--And that would be your basic hair care regimens, tips, and tricks. Now, there are physical differences that may mean someone's technique may not work for you, but some of them are tried and true and work for a lot of people, so why not try them? Just being a little devil's advocate-y, as I understand why like would listen to like. Just sayin'.

Thank you for expressing what I could not!

 

[SleekandBouncy]

Thanks for your honesty about the bolded because most lighter skinned women I have encountered are not honest about their experiences. I am "medium" complected (whatever that means) like Sanaa Lathan, Jada Pinkett, etc and when I get my hair blown out and it's hanging APL/BSLish, you better believe people are asking what brand hair I have in, where did i get my wig and trying to sneakily do weave checks. I have had my ponytail yanked to check to see if it would come off and I KNOW if I was off the beyonce, alicia keys persuasion people wouldn't make those assumptions. When I wear it curly, same assumptions. After refuting it all, then they say oh well you look kinda mixed anyway. Ummmmmm ok. Two seconds ago, I was too "black" to have this hair, now I'm "mixed". People and their nonsense amaze me. Black people need to get over this colour and hair nonsense, it so damn extra and illogical.

Yeah I couldn't lie, plus I didn't see what the purpose is with ppl pretending these subtleties in experience don't exist.
A year or two ago (when my hair was long) reading the threads on LHCF I genuinely wondered if my hair wasn't all that long or maybe it wasn't as thick/healthy as I thought because I was like dang I never get that stuff. No weave checks, no side eye, nothing I gotz no attention!

 

[Nelli04]

As you can see from my picture, I'm clearly not white...but as someone stated (I don't remember which thread, sorry!), black people can be very cruel to things they don't understand. Or things they simply feel is a betrayal. Speaking proper English is an example of this. I've been told I'm not black enough, or that I'm a burnt white girl. People make me so mad. It's not only an insult to me, but our entire race. It's like saying black people are incapable of intelligent speech.

I've been told the same things ever since I was little (around 9 years old)...I grew up in a mostly white town, but the few black people there I would hang with.

I've been told 'you're a white girl stuck in a black girl's body' 'are you white? Oops, sorry I am color blind' 'You're not black enough, you haven't memorized every line in the color purple??'
I was just told I was white washed for being educated...by someone not black.

I've even been told I had white girl hair lol, the things people say never cease to amaze me.

 

[SmartyPants]

As you can see from my picture, I'm clearly not white...but as someone stated (I don't remember which thread, sorry!), black people can be very cruel to things they don't understand. Or things they simply feel is a betrayal. Speaking proper English is an example of this. I've been told I'm not black enough, or that I'm a burnt white girl. People make me so mad. It's not only an insult to me, but our entire race. It's like saying black people are incapable of intelligent speech.

But she said they actually CALLED her white. She didn't say they said she talked like a white girl. I got that one too (a lot of us did). But no one ever actually CALLED me white!

 

[*Muffin*]

A lot of "3's" are encouraged, urged, forced to relax. That's why many of us are on the board. learning to maintain our relaxers, transitioning to natural and then maintain that style or if we never relaxed, learning to maintain the unruly, frizzy mess that is 3hair when you don't know what to do with it.

There's no arguing there. People of all different hair textures could be forced to relax. There's even some people in the 2's that feel the need to get rid of their natural wave. There's always exceptions to every rule, but honestly, if you stood a person with type 3 hair next to a person with type 4 hair in a public square and asked everyone who "needs" a relaxer more, who do you think the people are more likely to point to? I'm not saying that nobody with type 3 hair ever had to face a relaxer, I'm just saying that it's more prevalent with people who have hair in the 4's.

 

[Kurlee]

Africa is a great place to start. Among the Hausa people (a nomadic people) - many have what we would classify as 3C hair; they are dark skinned and extremely beautiful women.

My Somalian, Eritrean, Kenyan friends are also of the 3a, b, c persuasion.

For dark skinned 1a women, I have yet to see that in person but i'd give a go at Australia , South America, Cap Vert and Madagascar.

ETA: Perhaps it's your location, or yes, you just haven't noticed it, but these women are mos def around here in the US.....you don't have to go up and down in the world searching for them, lol.

ETA: AND I just realized that you say you've seen this in the boards AFTER posting this...

many argue that these africans are "mixed", so using that argument won't work. It's been beat into the black mind that our hair is only good if another race "contributes" to it.

 

[SEMO]

There's no arguing there. People of all different hair textures could be forced to relax. There's even some people in the 2's that feel the need to get rid of their natural wave. There's always exceptions to every rule, but honestly, if you stood a person with type 3 hair next to a person with type 4 hair in a public square and asked everyone who "needs" a relaxer more, who do you think the people are more likely to point to? I'm not saying that nobody with type 3 hair ever had to face a relaxer, I'm just saying that it's more prevalent with people who have hair in the 4's.

I understand what you're saying. I also think certain regions of the country are more likely to act as you've described than other regions.

 

[Amerie123]

Two things:
-Thank you OP for that well written Post!!
-Mwedzi's Poll's proves it all!!!

 

[isabella09]

As you can see from my picture, I'm clearly not white...but as someone stated (I don't remember which thread, sorry!), black people can be very cruel to things they don't understand. Or things they simply feel is a betrayal. Speaking proper English is an example of this. I've been told I'm not black enough, or that I'm a burnt white girl. People make me so mad. It's not only an insult to me, but our entire race. It's like saying black people are incapable of intelligent speech.

I absolutely concur with you! Some people used to say to me that I’m not black enough because they said that I’m well spoken and like classical music, Cold Play (UK band), Nickelback, Norah Jones and dislike rap music

 

[vainღ♥♡jane]

I have noticed that threads like these are prime territory for folks to "toot" their own horn.

or at least they think they are. but hey, their perception is their reality, no matter how true it is. ​

 

[LaBelleLL]

many argue that these africans are "mixed", so using that argument won't work. It's been beat into the black mind that our hair is only good if another race "contributes" to it.

Hm....do you mean people here in the US think that these Africans are mixed?

Over there (I only speak for West/Central sub saharan Africa and those specific East African countries), the concept of being mixed has more to do with skin color as opposed to hair type.

Either way, very interesting comment.

My main point is still that black women with 3abc hair (and maybe 1abc) do in fact exist regardless if someone would not think they are 100% black.....even though they are very dark and lovely....

 

[Kurlee]

Hm....do you mean people here in the US think that these Africans are mixed?

Over there (I only speak for West/Central sub saharan Africa and those specific East African countries), the concept of being mixed has more to do with skin color as opposed to hair type.

Either way, very interesting comment.

My main point is still that black women with 3abc hair (and maybe 1abc) do in fact exist regardless if someone would not think they are 100% black.....even though they are very dark and lovely....

oh for sure, i totally agree. The point i was trying to make is that even though this is very true, people WANT to not believe it, so no matter how many 3 type darker women you show, like many Africans, people will brush it off anf say they are mixed. I see it on the board constantly and IRL. It's annoying, but alot of black folk are hard pressed about this mindset.

 

[silvergirl]

i still want to see this type 1 black woman everyone is talking about. i dont deny the "black gene" can reach into the type 2's ive seen it, but never type 1. i think its a myth.
ill have as much luck seeing a unicorn in my backyard. :|

 

[LaBelleLL]

oh for sure, i totally agree. The point i was trying to make is that even though this is very true, people WANT to not believe it, so no matter how many 3 type darker women you show, like many Africans, people will brush it off anf say they are mixed. I see it on the board constantly and IRL. It's annoying, but alot of black folk are hard pressed about this mindset.

Oh ok, I got your point.

Yeah, it's actually not a surprise to hear that now that I think of it. That sort of stuff will always make me really sad...every single time. So unfortunate.