3c? 4c? Unfortunately, it has always mattered.

[GoingNatural]

My friend had people telling her water is drying!!! Water is one of the most natural hydrating substances on earth and you aren't going to listen to me bc I'm light skinned and I have worked for 3 yrs to keep my hair manageable? Shooot come to the hair shop with me--yall see the fro in the siggy

 

[Long-n-Strong_Naturally]

Thread Derailment Imminent. Danger, Danger!

You are awesome!

 

[cmw45]

My whole post was about your #1 point. Universal points that serve as a foundation for hair care. In my conversation with my friend I did not mention anything that 90% of the board doesn't do regularly regardless of hair type. I did not give tips or techniques. Did not suggest product types etc. I said water is not a drying agent. FACT. I told her to cowash and detangle because she had knots. What does any of that have to do with my skin color or perceived hair type?

I hear you. I really do. *sneaks off to rearead your post*

But, then again as I tried to state clearly in my my disclaimer, a lot of my post doesn't have anything to do with what you specifically stated and has more to do with other points that were raised in the thread. I mean, your post/thread is not the first to bring this issue up. I also recall a thread from Bubblin' (sp) where she brought up the issues of not being listened to because of the 3ish texture of her hair.

Ummm...I am not saying that I disagree with you...because in a lot of ways I don't but...I mean, the title of your thread did suggest that you might be listened to more if you had more highly textured hair. Maybe it was just to grab attention but judging from the responses and co-signing that went on in the thread I think the title of the thread struck a nerve and that it was the source for a lot of the discussion...not whether or not you were correct to say that water is not drying...which, clearly you were as it is not.

 

[naijamerican]

Thanks Mwedzi

OP, great post and great thread. I understood GoingNatural's intentions (as I think many of us did) as trying to highlight fundamental similarities in hair care practices. Having said that, I totally agree with what you stated.

Honestly, I appreciate having this forum as a way to discuss these issues. I have great African and African American women in my life but this is one topic that people cannot seem to discuss face-to-face without controversy.

 

[diva24]

I sighed when I read this. There are mixed women with 4b hair. There are non black women with 4b hair. There are dark skinned women with 1a hair. People just find any excuse for the state of thier hair and any way to discount the next womans achievement. When they give excuses that means they aren't ready to do what they have to or need to do to get thier hair in good condition. If someone thinks my hair texture is why I achieve certain lengths then its thier loss. Same goes for skin color.

ETA I've shown people pictures of women with waistlength 4b hair and there is still an excuse. "Oh she probably has Indian in her family." Rightttttttttt!

 

[cmw45]

My friend had people telling her water is drying!!! Water is one of the most natural hydrating substances on earth and you aren't going to listen to me bc I'm light skinned and I have worked for 3 yrs to keep my hair manageable? Shooot come to the hair shop with me--yall see the fro in the siggy

I don't think that is what anyone is saying.

I think Mdwezi is right and the issues of race and hair texture are being conflated...which is probably my fault...Ladylibra chimed in with a good point and I of course started engaging a good point.

 

[music-bnatural-smile]

Well correct me if I'm wrong...
I think skin has plenty to do with it... she put skin in the original post...

but anyways its not getting deep in here nobody should be so sensitive to get cranky about this thread i love this discussion

 

[cmw45]

I sighed when I read this. There are mixed women with 4b hair. There are non black women with 4b hair. There are dark skinned women with 1a hair. People just find any excuse for the state of thier hair and any way to discount the next womans achievement. When they give excuses that means they aren't ready to do what they have to or need to do to get thier hair in good condition. If someone thinks my hair texture is why I achieve certain lengths then its thier loss. Same goes for skin color.

I agree with all of this. And I don't think they are many people on the board that would disagree. It's not about skin color. In getting riled up, I think I disucssed way to much and may go back and edit the original post.

The point that I am making as a woman and a 4a/3c is that there hair texture does make a difference. That while we should expect that everyone should be open and listen to the advice of other, that there is a LOT of hair info out there and that we really shouldn't be surprised that people tend to listen to people who have hair "like" them.

 

[cinnamin2891]

It would be silly for me to deny that the affirmation that I get from outsiders about how nice my natural hair looks doesn't have something to do with my motivation to stay natural. It would also be silly for me to deny that she has had a more difficult time staying natural when everyone, including members of her own family, think she should "slap a relaxer" on her head.[/LEFT]

I totally agree with you on this and I notice it a lot when ppl comment on others photos who have a defined curl and say "you have a nice texture." What is a nice texture??? I feel like it's the same as saying someone has "good hair." BUT, no doubt, it's "easier" logistically and socially to maintain hair with a curl pattern and the difficulty faced by sisters who do not have a discernible curl should not be dismissed, ignored, or trivialized. I'm going to step out on a limb here and say that this distinction is somewhat analogous (not the same by any means, but a parallel) to white privilege. Hope someone doesn't get mad at me for that statement (ducks and runs for cover).

 

[diva24]

What I want to get across is that texture matters for those that know nothing and want to maintain that state. All 4a's will not get the same results when using the same products. Same goes for all 3b's and 2c's and 1b's. Same equation for skin color.

I am not SURPRISED when people who do not share my hair texture ignore my advice. Im just saying I think it is stupid. If I wanted to learn to play basketball and only talked to women my height and size and color, I would lose out on so much information.

 

[cmw45]

Thanks Mwedzi

OP, great post and great thread. I understood GoingNatural's intentions (as I think many of us did) as trying to highlight fundamental similarities in hair care practices. Having said that, I totally agree with what you stated.

Honestly, I appreciate having this forum as a way to discuss these issues. I have great African and African American women in my life but this is one topic that people cannot seem to discuss face-to-face without controversy.

THANK YOU! I had to go back and reread my original post because I really wasn't trying to get folks angry, but the women of this forum seemed to be able to host great discussion. I happened to disagree with some sentiments I have heard ushered before and GoingNatural to a smaller degree and that's why I posted the thread. I stand by everything I have said. They are just my thoughts. If you feel different, I am open to enlightenment.

 

[Dposh167]

My friend had people telling her water is drying!!! Water is one of the most natural hydrating substances on earth and you aren't going to listen to me bc I'm light skinned....

this just cracked me up.

when you REALLY think about it. It doesn't make sense. You're complaining how dry your hair is....but yet you stay away from WATER?...


eta: the next person who tells me this, I'm gonna ask them "okay...HOW does water dry out your hair?"...and if they pause for 10 secs, then i rest my case

 

[PerplexingComplex]

I sighed when I read this. There are mixed women with 4b hair. There are non black women with 4b hair. There are dark skinned women with 1a hair. People just find any excuse for the state of thier hair and any way to discount the next womans achievement. When they give excuses that means they aren't ready to do what they have to or need to do to get thier hair in good condition. If someone thinks my hair texture is why I achieve certain lengths then its thier loss. Same goes for skin color.

ETA I've shown people pictures of women with waistlength 4b hair and there is still an excuse. "Oh she probably has Indian in her family." Rightttttttttt!

The bolded is the gist of it all. I doubt it had to do with hair type, when she was giving out basic information.

 

[cmw45]

PLUS... not only do white people give me a hard time, but black people tell me that I'm white! so then its like... who the f am I????
I mean I used to think like that but I know who I am now...
I used to play up my blackness by wearing wooden beads and twists and chunky earrings LOL. I still dress like that but I wonder if I wouldve stuck with my emo look in middle school if people didn't start questioning my blackness...

Lol...I think that has less to do with skin color and more to do with other socioeconomic factors. I mean seriously, if I had a dollar for evertime I got picked on cause I "talked like a white girl." LOL...again, another issue for another day...thread.

 

[naijamerican]

THANK YOU! I had to go back and reread my original post because I really wasn't trying to get folks angry, but the women of this forum seemed to be able to host great discussion. I happened to disagree with some sentiments I have heard ushered before and GoingNatural to a smaller degree and that's why I posted the thread. I stand by everything I have said. They are just my thoughts. If you feel different, I am open to enlightenment.

No problem.

I think that part of it is, you have to read GoingNatural's thread to understand what you yourself are trying to accomplish in this thread. This has nothing to do with skin color gradation (well, partially so, but not entirely). We keep imputing skin color as if to suggest that light-skinned Blacks all have 2a-3c hair. That is not the case, as evidenced by people's pictures and even by what has been posted in this thread. Yes, our hair and skin are fundamentally shaped by our ancestry, but that is not the point of this thread. I do think that the reason people started commenting on skin color struggles is because you cited Rihanna, Beyonce, and Halle - but that is not the crux of this thread.

Again, GN's thread was really good, because it demonstrates that there are definite, fundamental ways of taking care of hair across the board. But your thread demonstrates the complexities in the way we view our hair as women of color. Speaking for myself, my hair is not just my hair. It has taken me the entire time of being natural - 9 years - to accept that my hair is essentially 4A to 4C. I am still striving to accept it. I have resigned myself to the fact that it might not look the way I want it to, and that even how I want it to look is shaped by my internalization of images of what constitutes beauty in this society.

 

[vainღ♥♡jane]

oh my goodness. stop while ahead. thanks in advance.​

 

[chellero]

Oooh, so they couldn't actually see your curls.

......

 

[SweetSpirit86]

Lol...I think that has less to do with skin color and more to do with other socioeconomic factors. I mean seriously, if I had a dollar for evertime I got picked on cause I "talked like a white girl." LOL...again, another issue for another day...thread.

Ugh...I get that...but like you said...another issue, another day, another thread...so I won't get started. If I don't, I may not shut up for awhile!

 

[Neith]

Oh, lordy. I didn't expect a spinoff

I think people have some really deep issues when it comes to hair. And as apparent in this thread, skin color.

All I was saying in the original thread is that just because someone has a different hair type, it doesn't mean that you can't learn anything from them.

Theories and ideas sprout up all the time that benefit us all. I get checking out people of your own hair type a lot... but I don't get why someone would straight ignore such a large group of informed individuals. Listen and you might learn something new!

That's all.

I come back and we are on light vs. dark?

Daaaaang. I'm sorry, but yeah... nono:

 

[PeaceFlow]

Skin colour does have a little to do with it.
The start of my journey was impulse buying the Cathy Howse book. Her front cover really stood out to me as she looked like a seemingly regular black woman with long hair and swang, which I sadly had never seen before.

If she looked like Mya or Alicia Keys I almost certainly wouldnt have bought it. I think we expect a little too much from people off the board. When I was opened up to the Black long hair world I came to forums that had proof, proof everywhere and pics galore. People off the board go along with stereotypes about who can grow hair and who can't all their lives.

Then one person comes to them who has looser hair and says you can do this and that, it works for me! Well if they believe that stereotype then they may not register.
Likewise if a 4 a/b who has been on the boards a while, and has figured out a routine to keep their soft and moisturized, goes up to a friend who has the same 4 a/b hair, sometimes they will think it cannot be the same as theirs. The LCHF member must have soft hair naturally.
I have had hairdressers gasp at how soft my hair is, if they don't feel moiturized, non-greasy hair often then they will view you as an exception.

I don't think its about lazyness all the time, its the lifelong messages in the BC that you cannot grow 4b WL hair. The message is deeply ingrained for some.

 

[SleekandBouncy]

Excellent points.
There are some areas of hair advice that I take from fellow black women regardless to hair type (assuming it's textured in some form). For example a good friend recommended a dekinkifying mixture/practice, and conditioner that I owe her a toe for sharing with me. It worked well on my 4A hair. There are other things that I generally only try out if it's recommended by a fellow nap head. When said curly headed friend suggested I straighten my hair in the winter and wear it natural in the Summer I laughed. She can do that and it makes going natural much easier (if texture versatility is your goal). For me I have to make a firm decision. I will never get straight swoosh from a flat iron and there isn't enough money I can pay Dominicans to blow straight my naps so there isn't weekly switching for me

I can definitely understand why many BW erplexed @Rihanna, Bey, Vanessa, and Halle being the only examples of black beauty. We are used to reinforce white superiority, but because we still aren't white at the end of the day we're moving in the same circles with other BW that exposes us to the resentment and mistreatment the setup fosters.
I'd be pissed too, matter of fact I'm pissed on behalf of other BW. And it's not as some ppl simplistically suggest that there isn't room for "blackness" in all forms (one vs the other), but rather that there very literally isn't room made for all forms of blackness. One form is represented disproportionately to it's occurrence IRL.

On a side note. Reality is apparently highly subjective and subject to alteration when those afflicted look in the mirror. The awareness of certain complexions of a situation and textures of reality so traumatic some ppl block it from their memory. Tis all.

 

[claudia05]

On a side note. Reality is apparently highly subjective and subject to alteration when those afflicted look in the mirror. The awareness of certain complexions of a situation and textures of reality so traumatic some ppl block it from their memory. Tis all.

Okay?

 

[msa]

I have a question...where is everyone seeing all these light skinned 4ab chicks and dark skinned 1a-3c chicks? Irl there aren't even enough women wearing their hair naturally for me to make that determination...but of the naturals I've seen, I haven't seen any of the aforementioned women walking around.

 

[music-bnatural-smile]

I have a question...where is everyone seeing all these light skinned 4ab chicks and dark skinned 1a-3c chicks? Irl there aren't even enough women wearing their hair naturally for me to make that determination...but of the naturals I've seen, I haven't seen any of the aforementioned women walking around.

all the brownies who are 2-3 somethings that i know are ethiopies...
that was funny lol
my LS friends are all 3s... im trying to think of one that is a 4... im the kinkiest

 

[music-bnatural-smile]

oh btw... to the ladies clowning me, they did see my curls i wore my hair out...
touche' lol

 

[silvergirl]

thats weird, alicia keys and halle barry seem like reg ole black people to me... in terms of skin color...even beyonce isnt light skinned to me...

 

[Kurlee]

I have a question...where is everyone seeing all these light skinned 4ab chicks and dark skinned 1a-3c chicks? Irl there aren't even enough women wearing their hair naturally for me to make that determination...but of the naturals I've seen, I haven't seen any of the aforementioned women walking around.

i see it alot. I think people sometimes so badly want to believe in the stereotypes that when we see someone with who is light skinned with 4ab or dark with 1b- 3b we automatically negate and rationalize. I have seen so many people rationalize why so and so looks x and has y hair and it's very sad, how hard many try to make the categories gospel.

 

[diva24]

I have a question...where is everyone seeing all these light skinned 4ab chicks and dark skinned 1a-3c chicks? Irl there aren't even enough women wearing their hair naturally for me to make that determination...but of the naturals I've seen, I haven't seen any of the aforementioned women walking around.

The light skinned ladies are bone laxed and everyone thinks the dark skinned ladies are wearing lace front or got INDIAN in thier family.

The issue is why do you need to "make that determination"?

 

[diva24]

i see it alot. I think people sometimes so badly want to believe in the stereotypes that when we see someone with who is light skinned with 4ab or dark with 1b- 3b we automatically negate and rationalize. I have seen so many people rationalize why so and so looks x and has y hair and it's very sad, how hard many try to make the categories gospel.

I am sure she sees it a lot too. She is just probably one of those people that find it hard to believe dark skinned woman can actually have naturally 1a-3b hair. Or find it hard to believe light skinned women can have 4b hair and be "100% black." One of those excuse having folks.

 

[SleekandBouncy]

I have a question...where is everyone seeing all these light skinned 4ab chicks and dark skinned 1a-3c chicks? Irl there aren't even enough women wearing their hair naturally for me to make that determination...but of the naturals I've seen, I haven't seen any of the aforementioned women walking around.

The majority of the light skinned BW I see/know/sit across from in the salon are in the 4s. I can spot naps a mile away, 3 hair hair relaxes differently, plus roots are a dead give away.
I'm in the 4s and as you can see from my siggy I'm of the diminished melanin crew.

BUT, I can agree that black women with 1-3 hair are more likely of the Halle or lighter persuasion.
Part of it also is that ppl will sooner assume a darker woman is wearing a weave and a lighter woman just has "good" hair. My hair used to be almost to the middle of my back and now it looks wiggy because it's thick and dark and yet I've never been asked if I'm wearing a weave. I marvel at all the weave accusation threads. I thoguht well dang maybe my hair isn't all that long.