How Natural is Natural? And Who Are You to Decide?

[MonPetite]

These are very thought-provoking questions. I'm trying to get a hold of what you're asking, but am not getting part of it.

Whoah! Big leap! Isn't everyone entitled to her opinion about what natural is?

Apparently not, otherwise this thread wouldn't be 4+ pages.

Also, the stereoype of welfare and black women is coming from a different era and is based on socio-economic predjudice tied to race.

I'd like to believe everyone is entitled to her own opinion, but it seems on LHCF there are certain rules to follow in determining what ends up in your siggie. Whether or not I agree with them, I still don't know.

But I'm having a heck of a good time, finding out.

 

[Irresistible]

Apparently not, otherwise this thread wouldn't be 4+ pages.

Also, the stereoype of welfare and black women is coming from a different era and is based on socio-economic predjudice tied to race.

Our hair texture was a matter of whether we were human or not and used as evidence to support the latter. "Scientific" evidence at that.

I'd like to believe everyone is entitled to her own opinion, but it seems on LHCF there are certain rules to follow in determining what ends up in your siggie. Whether or not I agree with them, I still don't know.

But I'm having a heck of a good time, finding out.

LMAO

Stop picking people's brains!

It hurts!

rotfl

 

[MonPetite]

I feel that people should realize what we are doing. All of the emphasis put into whether it's natural, coily, relaxed, colored... it's misdirected anger/shame/who knows what else. It's not truly important.

The hair is not the problem, it's the underlying issues that REALLY need to be worked out. I wish that we could talk more about that.

Of course, this is only for natural vs relaxed or any debate over hair types specifically. Sharing tips and techniques is different.

I hope you're not implying that is what's happening in this thread. I for one, am not angry nor ashamed and did not intend for either to proliferate this thread that I started.

I agree with you hair is the least of our troubles in this crazy world. However, this IS a hair board. Ergo...we can nitpick, day dream, debate, celebrate, and whatever else about hair to the infinite degree.

The underlying issues WOULD be great to talk about. But they'd be off topic for this thread AND this forum. It'd be a great start in the Off Topic forum though.

I also don't see relaxed vs. natural as a debate about type. That's going far deeper. This is a matter of semantics and the connotations and meanings assigned to a specific word that seems to have a universal meaning but clearly as we're seeing in this thread does not: natural.

ETA: Wow...that sounded harsh. I'm not attacking you! I think it's the red font.

Why is the designation of "natural" important?

Exactly!

I don't throw rocks at people for their hair choices, why people got to throw them at me? I just let them slide by. If you want to get technical, none of us are natural. Chlorine in the water system, preservatives in our food, etc. etc. All of these chemicals everywhere makes us not natural. I just prefer to LIMIT my chemical intake and just let my hair be. If putting yogurt in my hair(lactic acid) or limes (citric acid) or whatever means I'm not natural SO WHAT. I like this hairstyle option and that's what it is and should be for EVERYONE. I'm just me whether I choose to get the broken down natural "chemicals" or the compounds they mix in the lab. So does that drive the point home??? Let's keep it light.

SO WHAT?! You're using chemicals! You hate yourself and your naturalness! EGADS! J/K!!

But in all seriousness, I agree with you 100%. I just couldn't resist.

 

[Sweet_Ambrosia]

With all these different definitions of what natural hair is, I really doubt that anyone would walk up to a natural sista IRL and tell her that her natural hair isn’t natural for xyz reasons. I’m bold but I’m not that bold, just saying. Personally, when I think of natural hair I think of the texture, not the color. If the texture isn’t chemically altered by relaxers, perms or texturizers the hair is still natural IMO. That’s my own personal definition of what natural hair is, but I wont try to push my opinion or slap labels on anyone who thinks/feels differently.

Peace!
~SA

 

[Neith]

I hope you're not implying that is what's happening in this thread. I for one, am not angry nor ashamed and did not intend for either to proliferate this thread that I started.

I agree with you hair is the least of our troubles in this crazy world. However, this IS a hair board. Ergo...we can nitpick, day dream, debate, celebrate, and whatever else about hair to the infinite degree.

The underlying issues WOULD be great to talk about. But they'd be off topic for this thread AND this forum. It'd be a great start in the Off Topic forum though.

I also don't see relaxed vs. natural as a debate about type. That's going far deeper. This is a matter of semantics and the connotations and meanings assigned to a specific word that seems to have a universal meaning but clearly as we're seeing in this thread does not: natural.

That IS what I think is happening in this thread.

I don't literally mean that every single person is angry or ashamed.

We all have had to live with/overcome the bad hair syndrome. This is why people are oversensitive, angry, militant, insecure, or what have you.

I feel that the hair isn't really the issue. It's all the underlying racial muck that we walk through everyday.

I know it's wishful thinking... but I'd like to see the end of black people struggling with things like this. Threads like this just... suck. (no offense to anyone) It just proves how torn up we are over the most simple things.

I'm not saying that we shouldnt have meaningless chit chat here, but it's plain to see that there is a big problem here, and arguing over how natural our hair is isn't fixing anything.

I'm sure anyone of average intelligence knows the difference between virgin/natural hair and relaxed hair. Everyone KNOWS that permanently colored hair isn't truly natural even if it isn't relaxed.

Why do people grip on to the term so fiercely? Should you get more respect because you're natural? Are you any less of a person if you aren't labeled as natural? Especially when in the back of your mind, you know you aren't? What is so special about the word "natural" and why does it matter to black people so much?

It shouldn't matter that much. We shouldn't be so wound up and on edge about our hair or any of our African features.

 

[JustKiya]

Apparently not, otherwise this thread wouldn't be 4+ pages.

Also, the stereoype of welfare and black women is coming from a different era and is based on socio-economic predjudice tied to race.

Our hair texture was a matter of whether we were human or not and used as evidence to support the latter. "Scientific" evidence at that.

I'd like to believe everyone is entitled to her own opinion, but it seems on LHCF there are certain rules to follow in determining what ends up in your siggie. Whether or not I agree with them, I still don't know.

But I'm having a heck of a good time, finding out.

And see, I disagree with that. I think that truly, the only 'rule' is what Ms. Siggy Owner herself believes is natural. If Ms. SO considers herself natural, then she does. I, personally, might disagree with her, and I, personally, might not consider myself natural if I did to my hair what Ms. SO is doing to her hair - but ya know what? It's her hair, her opinion of natural, and I'm not going to knock it - OR try to change it. It's her hair. She can call it whatever she wants to.....

<snip>
I'm not saying that we shouldnt have meaningless chit chat here, but it's plain to see that there is a big problem here, and arguing over how natural our hair is isn't fixing anything.

I'm sure anyone of average intelligence knows the difference between virgin/natural hair and relaxed hair. Everyone KNOWS that permanently colored hair isn't truly natural even if it isn't relaxed.

Why do people grip on to the term so fiercely? Should you get more respect because you're natural? Are you any less of a person if you aren't labeled as natural? Especially when in the back of your mind, you know you aren't? What is so special about the word "natural" and why does it matter to black people so much?

It shouldn't matter that much. We shouldn't be so wound up and on edge about our hair or any of our African features.

Wow. That's kinda deep. I see where you are coming from more here, now.

I don't know, the answers to any of those questions right now. None of them - for me - have a simple yes or no answer, even while at the same time I feel like I have no particular attachment to being 'natural'.

Fabulous food for thought.

 

[divya]

I see natural as being the hair that God gave you...

 

[MonPetite]

That IS what I think is happening in this thread.

I don't literally mean that every single person is angry or ashamed.

We all have had to live with/overcome the bad hair syndrome. This is why people are oversensitive, angry, militant, insecure, or what have you.

I feel that the hair isn't really the issue. It's all the underlying racial muck that we walk through everyday.

I know it's wishful thinking... but I'd like to see the end of black people struggling with things like this. Threads like this just... suck. (no offense to anyone) It just proves how torn up we are over the most simple things.

I'm not saying that we shouldnt have meaningless chit chat here, but it's plain to see that there is a big problem here, and arguing over how natural our hair is isn't fixing anything.

I'm sure anyone of average intelligence knows the difference between virgin/natural hair and relaxed hair. Everyone KNOWS that permanently colored hair isn't truly natural even if it isn't relaxed.

Why do people grip on to the term so fiercely? Should you get more respect because you're natural? Are you any less of a person if you aren't labeled as natural? Especially when in the back of your mind, you know you aren't? What is so special about the word "natural" and why does it matter to black people so much?

It shouldn't matter that much. We shouldn't be so wound up and on edge about our hair or any of our African features.

Fabulous!

What you're getting at is what makes people come to this thread and explore all the issues of color, what type of chemical, what and what isn't natural. There is something in saying you are "natural" that has a ring of "specialness" to it....

And I lurve to think of myself as special.

This explains though while people are willing to let things slide like loosening your texture with limes and lactic acid and getting it colored....But then want to draw the line at the woman who goes from 4abcd to 4abc. erplexed

If natural has too "loose" a defintion...the "specialness" is diluted.

I still (respectfully) disagree that what you see in THIS thread is anger and shame being thrown around. No one's arguing. Otherwise I would personally PM the mods and ask for it to be closed.

I also disagree that this thread sucks, for obvious reasons.


Thanks though.


If people are getting that worked up then I asked a worthwhile set of questions.

I hope I, the original poster, count as a part of "everyone". I won't "jump" on that however. Though I do find it a bit...forward...to tell someone their thread "sucks".

Furthermore, I don't find this meaningless. It's not fair to reduce all of the thoughtful and sincere comments from those who have posted to "meaningless".

Though I'm sure you're not being that abrupt, it can just seem that way through text, devoid of mannerism and inflection.

I know you extend the same respect and courtesy to myself as the OP and to the other posters in giving their opinion as we do to you. Possibly disagreeing, but respecting and validating anyone's right to say what they wish.

It DOES "suck" however that we do still have hair issues and that being natural is even "being natural".

Why does it even need to have a label. Shouldn't it be a matter of "being black" and being "relaxed" should be the deviation from the norm needing a different label to be discussed?

I don't know.

But I DO know I'm not going there and I advise no one else to so I DON'T have to PM the mods and respectfully ask them to close my thread and thank those who added meaningful responses, which would be everyone thus far.


Carry on, ladies. I love the thoughtful and (most of the time) polite discourse of LHCF members.


And as for picking brains, Irresistable...I can't help it. I sowwy!

 

[Southernbella.]

Why do people grip on to the term so fiercely? Should you get more respect because you're natural? Are you any less of a person if you aren't labeled as natural? Especially when in the back of your mind, you know you aren't? What is so special about the word "natural" and why does it matter to black people so much?

.

Why do texlaxed heads call themselves texlaxed? They applied relaxer to their hair, right? So why split hairs and come up with a different term?

Come on, now. It's not that hard to understand, is it? It's a way to distinguish yourself for purposes of hairboards. In real life, I never even tell people I'm "natural". I just say I don't relax my hair. Why? Because most people IRL have no concept of the term.

It's a HAIRBOARD THING. Not the name of our religion or something.

 

[MonPetite]

Why do texlaxed heads call themselves texlaxed? They applied relaxer to their hair, right? So why split hairs and come up with a different term?

Come on, now. It's not that hard to understand, is it? It's a way to distinguish yourself for purposes of hairboards. In real life, I never even tell people I'm "natural". I just say I don't relax my hair. Why? Because most people IRL have no concept of the term.

It's a HAIRBOARD THING. Not the name of our religion or something.

That right "thurr", is hilarious.

 

[Neith]

Why do texlaxed heads call themselves texlaxed? They applied relaxer to their hair, right? So why split hairs and come up with a different term?

Come on, now. It's not that hard to understand, is it? It's a way to distinguish yourself for purposes of hairboards. In real life, I never even tell people I'm "natural". I just say I don't relax my hair. Why? Because most people IRL have no concept of the term.

It's a HAIRBOARD THING. Not the name of our religion or something.

You may have misunderstood my post.

I wasn't asking WHY people call themselves natural.

I was wondering why some would people call themselves natural when they have used substances that permanently alter their hair texture or color. It's irrational.

It's as if some people hold on to the word "natural" like it is some sort of trophy and makes them special.

My opinion is that 100% natural hair is beautiful, but it's still just hair. Not any better or worse than relaxed, texturized or colored hair. I don't understand why some feel the NEED to be labeled natural if they just aren't.

I truly don't get it and feel that people act irrational because of deeply rooted beliefs/insecurities. This is coming from someone who was natural/virgin up to February of this year and is transitioning back.

Hope it's better worded this time...

 

[MonPetite]

You may have misunderstood my post.

I wasn't asking WHY people call themselves natural.

I was wondering why some would people call themselves natural when they have used substances that permanently alter their hair texture or color. It's irrational.

It's as if some people hold on to the word "natural" like it is some sort of trophy and makes them special.

My opinion is that 100% natural hair is beautiful, but it's still just hair. Not any better or worse than relaxed, texturized or colored hair. I don't understand why some feel the NEED to be labeled natural if they just aren't.

I truly don't get it and feel that people act irrational because of deeply rooted beliefs/insecurities. This is coming from someone who was natural/virgin up to February of this year and is transitioning back.

Hope it's better worded this time...

This totally clears up your POV for me...and I absolutey see what you are saying now. Also, good luck on your transition.

 

[LadyKaypnyc]

I asked this question a while back and all hell broke loose

It doesn't matter what someone else's definition of Natural is...as long as you don't try to impose your views on others... It's not like we are walking down the street putting stamps on people's foreheads that say : "Yo You Ain't Natural"....Who Cares?

I color my hair, and yes, I still consider myself natural, despite anyone else's opinion, we are never going to agree on this issue, so why not agree to disagree?

 

[MonPetite]

I asked this question a while back and all hell broke loose

Sorry that happened. erplexed

It doesn't matter what someone else's definition of Natural is...as long as you don't try to impose your views on others... It's not like we are walking down the street putting stamps on people's foreheads that say : "Yo You Ain't Natural"....Who Cares?

People on hairboards. J/K

I color my hair, and yes, I still consider myself natural, despite anyone else's opinion, we are never going to agree on this issue, so why not agree to disagree?

I wouldn't be naive enough to imagine there would be consensus on such a topic (not implying you are saying I am, though).

It's the journey in this case.

I was simply puzzling through a question that made me reevaluate some of my thoughts on the subjects and invited others to take a stab at it as well.

I've throughly enjoyed the discourse myself. As evident by how often I've posted.

 

[beautifulisaunderstatment]

not natural, whats natural, not natural enough

she doesnt embrace her naturalness, anti straights, anti products to manage natural hair or if you do use said products, then your anti natural and not embracing your natural hair, anti curly, anti color, anti heat , anti styles, shyt!

Ive seen it all

makes my brain hurt

Mines too. Juices n berries my ***.

Ahhh....my favorite subject.

I'd never just roll up on somebody with a pink BAA or platinum blonde locs or lavender twists and staple a scarlett "N" to their chest. But I would definitely think to myself, "that ain't natural", which is totally my perogative.

Here's the thing, when these topics come up on the hairboards or IRL if someone ASKS FOR THE OPINIONS OF OTHERS, folks are well within their rights to explain what they deem to be natural and what's not.

But unsolicited condemnation is just a-hole behavior and people who do that should be pointed in the direction of the nearest pile of rocks for them to go kick.

 

[beautifulisaunderstatment]

Well mine didn't. I understand what you're saying because the color is a chemical but it just makes things messy. So because i have highlights only 3/4's of my hair is natural? If you think permanently highlighted hair is natural then sure It's probably more than that now since the color is only on the very tip. And once I cut that does that mean I'm back to being all natural again? I usually only use the word natural to refer to texture. Not color. When somebody says that have natural hair I take it to mean they do not relax or texturize their hair. Nothing more. The whole process of going natural does not refer to choosing not to color your hair anymore. Everyone doent think that. I can think of 2 people off the top of my head with fotkis that are transitioning from color ONLY (never relaxed) People are just making it out to be more than it needs to be.

People make it what it means to be to THEM. You dont have to agree. No one is calling you a non-natural. I just feel that since we all agree that bleaching/coloring your hair can change the texture and permanently alters the hair that its considered processed.

 

[PeaceFlow]

Im bi-natural at the moment, clocked up 21+ years on the virgin/non coloured natural clock and tried chemical maybe 3/4 times which knocks my hair clean off and puts me into semi or full naturaldom again(unhappy face at hairloss).

4/5 natural hair with 1/5 texlaxed nappy ends ready to drop off: people will and have tried to tell me I am a percentage natural when I say how I see myself in that situation. To cut it short I'm not having someone tell me what I should consider myself in order to make them more focused on their own crack rehab. The dye business is crazy never heard that one
Next someone will say mixed race people cant call themselves Black

I agree with someone else, natural isn't a word I use everday IRL and saw myself as a girl with afro hair before the board. In relation to the boards when I want help with afro maintenence I want to call for people with them! I dont bother anymore, you can't technically call for naturals and if you say your texlaxed or not 100% thread wont get touched unless its a transition query.

 

[Curlytime]

I have two perspectives with regard to "natural hair". I believe when people say their hair is "natural" the "term" "what is meant" is their hair is "relaxer free". However, the work itself 'natural" not 'term" to me means the persons hair is not altered, meaning not chemically processed (relaxed, texlaxed, silkener, colored) or pressed. When I use the work pressed I mean the hair is not in its natural state at that time and not "natural" (it has been altered) however, in most cases (can be altered permanently if pressed too hard) temporarily altered from it's natural state. However, as I stated, I believe when people use the TERM "natural" they are referring to non-relaxed hair.

I am with the folks that say it's what your perspective of natural is and what it means to you. If your hair is chemically processed (texlaxed or whatever), colored (permanent, hena, semi-colored) and you believe it is "natural" it is natural from your perspective.

Maybe there should be some type of break down to different degrees of "natural"/terms for "natural". Something like the different types of vegetarians. Some vegans do not consider folks that eat eggs or say honey as "vegetarians" But do we really want to go there???????

 

[fluffylocks]

I suppose I am, as for the first time I'm having to find exactly what I mean by it when I say it to describe myself.



Agreed.



I agree. However the pressing vs non-pressing issue is more easily defeated in a discussion, IMHO. Are you going to tell a Japanese woman who uses a curling iron she's no longer "natural"? No. Yet, a natural-hair wearing Black woman use a pressing comb or flat iron and she's suddenly not natural? Even if, when she and the Japanese woman who curls her hair with a curling iron both get caught in a rainstorm thier hair "reverts".



In this case a lot of naturals on this board have some siggies to clarify. Again, this touches on, what is "natural". Is it a figurative adjective given definition by the society that spawns it or just simply a matter of chemical + hair. If it was, we wouldn't have relaxed vs. natural debates. Because given the right spin, I could argue how relaxed hair is still natural. I think it'd be silly and quite insane...but given some time to think about it I could. And if any of ya'll want to pay me to do so...PM me. College is expensive!




This...breaks my <3.


Being natural or defined as such mainly comes down to how your hair "looks". A step further how it looks + how it behaves under certain conditions.

Posters are get bogged down in chemicals + hair = relaxed. I'm inquiring about the social construct of the "natural" label itself.


Consider this:

If I and another woman are walking down the street and I am 3c/4a and she is "naturally" 4abcdefg and texlaxes to a 4a, and an obnoxious individual drives by and yells: "DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT NAPPY HAIR!" at the both of us, does it make ANY SENSE AT ALL for me to turn to her and say, "You're not natural...that was just about me. What're you looking funny about? I'm the one who should be astonished/angry/surprised/etc.!"

As far as anyone is concerned were both "natural" and in this case apparently "nappy". Is it worthwhile or even SENSIBLE for me to then decide to segregate her from myself when the rest of the universe does not? It seems like the problem would lie with ME and MY perceptions.


Anyone care to take a nibble? I'm loving all these thought provoking responses. I hoping for more that move beyond the usual replies and poke at some of the things that have become norms for us "natural heads"...when what is natural can be so easily redefined.

This is what im thinking....

In this world, most people think that straighter hair equals better.

Another general notion is that the straighter the hair, the easier it is to take care of.

The purpose of the relaxer is to straighten hair.

Going/being natural for a black person IMO (even though its not that serious to alot of people) is a strike against all of that even if thats not your purpose because your taking care of your hair as it is, and activly not feeding in to everything around you

Sure a woman has put a relaxer in her hair, and it still has curl and to the rest of the world, she is still natural (and i think that the rest of the world doesnt even know what "natural" is, to them its just nappy/curly so thats another reason why "natural" is so sacred)

BUT what was her reason for putting a chemical in her hair? Even though she still has curl...was her reason to have "less curl" or for her hair to be "easier" to deal with?

I dont think anyone should look down on her curls or hair

But WHY should she really have the same tittle as someone who is without any chemical on their hair to make it easier or straighter/less curl?

I think your looking at it like

Their is a person with two black parents....She black

Theirs a person with a white and black parent.....in this world/to the outside world she's still black

And in this world we know that lighter skin is sometimes favored, or being mixed over fully black may be favored. (Same as straighter hair)

You would not give the same credit to the white/black parents (used a relaxer) as the black/black parents (no relaxer) saying you've both produced fully black (natural hair) kids on purpose even if they come out looking like twins....

Because, even though they've had their kid out of love, being black (natural hair) is looked down on more than being white/mixed (natural hair straightened a bit), and people take pride in bein fully black (natural)

The black/black parents probally would not feel too happy about the white/black parents trying to be in a black parents (being called natural) club, or a mixed person would probally get looked at sideways trying to attend a club (being called natural) about the hardships of being black in a room full of all black people.

And its not that deep for some, but for others it is.

I dont really care, but i think thats the reason. Just the reasons behind things and the way the world is, everything has to have intentions behind it even if that wasnt really the purpose.

 

[fluffylocks]

On the terms of no relaxer, no color equals natural

No relaxer, but color equals not natural.....

I think that because their is no set name for it, that it just has to go into one category or the other when people are describing it, not based on what it actually is...natural or not....and IMO it fits more into natural


But wait, even naturals who get thair hair "rinsed/semiperm" are not natural?

 

[Irresistible]

Im bi-natural at the moment, clocked up 21+ years on the virgin/non coloured natural clock and tried chemical maybe 3/4 times which knocks my hair clean off and puts me into semi or full naturaldom again(unhappy face at hairloss).

4/5 natural hair with 1/5 texlaxed nappy ends ready to drop off: people will and have tried to tell me I am a percentage natural when I say how I see myself in that situation. To cut it short I'm not having someone tell me what I should consider myself in order to make them more focused on their own crack rehab. The dye business is crazy never heard that one
Next someone will say mixed race people cant call themselves Black

I agree with someone else, natural isn't a word I use everday IRL and saw myself as a girl with afro hair before the board. In relation to the boards when I want help with afro maintenence I want to call for people with them! I dont bother anymore, you can't technically call for naturals and if you say your texlaxed or not 100% thread wont get touched unless its a transition query.

laughing and thinking 'damn this is deep'

very comical yet thought provoking post

 

[vestaluv1]

OK...
Natural = Produced by nature; inherent = relaxer free, colour free, chemical free, moisturiser free, spray free, gel free, mousse free, shoot: HAIR PRODUCT OF ANY SHAPE OR FORM FREE!
So can we just say there are different degress of 'naturalness' .

 

[NikStarrr]

When I refer to "natural", I mean no texture altering chemicals, for ex, relaxers. I don't include hair coloring in with that.

 

[tinkat]

Natural to me is not altering your natural hair texture.