How Natural is Natural? And Who Are You to Decide?

[MonPetite]

I agree. That's why I said...this is more an issue on hairboards than IRL. If I see you and your friend, and you both have nappy or kinky or curly hair, I would consider you both natural without knowing the circumstances. I don't see how I would even know the circumstances unless I walked right up to you and asked you exactly how you got your hair that way.

It's funny...I wore a twistout this weekend and got lots of compliments from strangers. My hair looked 3C (which it's not), and for some reason, I felt obligated to tell everyone who complimented me that my hair was not naturally curly like that. One lady, before I told her this, said, "your hair is so pretty! You better not ever perm it!!!"

So I told her that I had just cut my perm off, that my natural hair is kinky, and that I was wearing a twistout (I had to explain what that was).

Anyway, that wasn't really relevant.The point is...I applaud anyone who wears natural looking hair, because I know that just wearing it is a deviation from the "norm".[/quote]


As do I.

Offtopic (which is a shame as I started the thing ): Your babydoll is sooooo cute!

 

[Irresistible]

I agree. That's why I said...this is more an issue on hairboards than IRL. If I see you and your friend, and you both have nappy or kinky or curly hair, I would consider you both natural without knowing the circumstances. I don't see how I would even know the circumstances unless I walked right up to you and asked you exactly how you got your hair that way.

It's funny...I wore a twistout this weekend and got lots of compliments from strangers. My hair looked 3C (which it's not), and for some reason, I felt obligated to tell everyone who complimented me that my hair was not naturally curly like that. One lady, before I told her this, said, "your hair is so pretty! You better not ever perm it!!!"

So I told her that I had just cut my perm off, that my natural hair is kinky, and that I was wearing a twistout (I had to explain what that was).

Anyway, that wasn't really relevant.The point is...I applaud anyone who wears natural looking hair, because I know that just wearing it is a deviation from the "norm".

aint that a trip how our minds are so jacked up. I mean if I press my hair and go out it always poofs! I'm always walking around afraid someone is gonna yell out 'GET A RELAXER ****** and the whole crowd is gonna go into a roar of laughter at my expense. LMAO

I think I had nightmares about that ish!

To be honest I think the hair boards made it all worse for us!

cause your right, that never happened to me in real life, but DAMN @ the shyt I have seen on here!!!!!

 

[Crackers Phinn]

Who am I to tell her she isn't natural?

Who are you to decide how natural I am or am not?

Ahhh....my favorite subject.

I'd never just roll up on somebody with a pink BAA or platinum blonde locs or lavender twists and staple a scarlett "N" to their chest. But I would definitely think to myself, "that ain't natural", which is totally my perogative.

Here's the thing, when these topics come up on the hairboards or IRL if someone ASKS FOR THE OPINIONS OF OTHERS, folks are well within their rights to explain what they deem to be natural and what's not.

But unsolicited condemnation is just a-hole behavior and people who do that should be pointed in the direction of the nearest pile of rocks for them to go kick.

 

[MAMATO]

I don't think it matters how natural you are, people need to worry about themselves.

It not that serious.

People act like being natural will get you into heaven or answer the problem to world peace, it doesn't so why does it matter so much? It shouldn't.


~Liyah

Alleluiah!! I am still trying to figure it out why it is so important to get the "Natural" pedigree for some people. All that matters is whatever you do to your hair, wear it with pride and enjoy it. Well, I do have a question though, what about jheri curls. The hair is not straight, can that hair be considered as natural. It's just a thought

 

[blasianbeauty]

Because when people say "natural" and talk about "natural" hair, they are generally talking about "natural texture". I think it's as simple as that. Someone with pink hair is seen as "natural" because they still have their natural hair texture. When people are talking about natural in relation to colour, they usually specifically state "natural colour", thats when you hear "natural blond".

If you dye your hair and experience a texture change, then you no longer have your natural texture...

Lys

I agree with this, especially the bolded.

 

[Harmony0221]

Well mine didn't. I understand what you're saying because the color is a chemical but it just makes things messy. So because i have highlights only 3/4's of my hair is natural? It's probably more than that now since the color is only on the very tip. And once I cut that does that mean I'm back to being all natural again? I usually only use the word natural to refer to texture. Not color. When somebody says that have natural hair I take it to mean they do not relax or texturize their hair. Nothing more. The whole process of going natural does not refer to choosing not to color your hair anymore. People are just making it out to be more than it needs to be.

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY!I think the general standard for natural is no relaxer! period! If we take it further than that then you limit all the fun possibilities of being natural!

 

[Sui Topi]

Ahhh....my favorite subject.

I'd never just roll up on somebody with a pink BAA or platinum blonde locs or lavender twists and staple a scarlett "N" to their chest. But I would definitely think to myself, "that ain't natural", which is totally my perogative.

Here's the thing, when these topics come up on the hairboards or IRL if someone ASKS FOR THE OPINIONS OF OTHERS, folks are well within their rights to explain what they deem to be natural and what's not.

But unsolicited condemnation is just a-hole behavior and people who do that should be pointed in the direction of the nearest pile of rocks for them to go kick.

I agree with this...and also the person who said nappy is not always natural and natural is not necesarily nappy. If your hair is texlaxed and it comes out looking fried and nappy...well, your hair is nappy...but not natural. You may get the same funny looks as someone who is natural, but you are not. But as J Coily said..if you're running around saying you are natural with this texlax...I am not going to be the one correcting you. But if you ask me if you are still natural, I would have to say no.

 

[Whimsy]

MY OPINION: if your hair is texlaxed/relaxed or curl pattern is otherwise chemically altered, you're not natural.

If your hair's curl pattern is the same as it grows from your head to the tip of your ends, then you're natural.

coloring has no bearing on your natural status to me.

 

[1QTPie]

I use the term "virgin" to describe hair that is unaltered by chemicals (color and/or relaxer/perm/texturizer, etc.)

I use "natural" to describe texture that has been unaltered even if color has been applied to the hair.

Naw girl. Not virgin. Born again virgin.

 

[carib_n_curly]

I use the term "virgin" to describe hair that is unaltered by chemicals (color and/or relaxer/perm/texturizer, etc.)

I use "natural" to describe texture that has been unaltered even if color has been applied to the hair.

i like that definiton
so i have virgin hair

i count coloured hair as natural as your texture is still the same but it has an unnatural colour that's it but colour is never really the issue it's the texture.when i say natural i am talking about the texture

if i did dye my hair i would just say "i'm a colour treated natural"

 

[1QTPie]

I concur with the above. If there is a chemical alteration of your texture than you are no longer natural. You are a nappy, but you are not growing your hair out the way it was "intended".

I have no opinion on color.

 

[secretrose]

This is a very interesting topic. I know a friend who has been taking MSM for 3 years and her texture has been altered from a 4a to 3b ish hair. Is this still natural? It is growing out of her scalp that way and it doesn't revert unless she stops taking it. What about naturals thats use yorgurt to loosen their hair pattern? Is lactic acid a chemical?

 

[Southernbella.]

I agree. That's why I said...this is more an issue on hairboards than IRL. If I see you and your friend, and you both have nappy or kinky or curly hair, I would consider you both natural without knowing the circumstances. I don't see how I would even know the circumstances unless I walked right up to you and asked you exactly how you got your hair that way.

It's funny...I wore a twistout this weekend and got lots of compliments from strangers. My hair looked 3C (which it's not), and for some reason, I felt obligated to tell everyone who complimented me that my hair was not naturally curly like that. One lady, before I told her this, said, "your hair is so pretty! You better not ever perm it!!!"

So I told her that I had just cut my perm off, that my natural hair is kinky, and that I was wearing a twistout (I had to explain what that was).

Anyway, that wasn't really relevant.The point is...I applaud anyone who wears natural looking hair, because I know that just wearing it is a deviation from the "norm".[/quote]


As do I.

Offtopic (which is a shame as I started the thing ): Your babydoll is sooooo cute!

Thank you!

 

[ladylibra]

i see this subject brought up a lot on NP, so i will say the same thing i say over there.

in the technical sense:

*NATURAL - unchemically processed hair, regardless of whether you sport your natural texture or press it straight. no relaxer, texturizer, silkener etc., no color.

*NAPPTURAL - natural hair in its natural state, unaffected texture-wise by a chemical process. natural color or processed color aside, as long as you are sporting your natural texture.

now, if i was to meet someone out on the street with hair like mine, and she tells me, "oh i'm natural too, i just get it texturized every few months because <insert reason here> ." i might tell her i don't consider that natural because she uses a chemical. but i wouldn't be nasty about it, i wouldn't pass judgement on her for it and i wouldn't discount her product recs or hair experiences just because of that. she can call herself whatever she wants to, in my mind we're not on the same exact level but we can still exchange hair tips and ideas. i'm not gonna tell her to kick rocks or anything. same as if i were to meet one with colored hair that was still a big coily fro.

i'm not doing her hair on a daily basis, and SHE'S the one who lives with it on her head. as long as she's taking care of it, keeping it healthy and presentable... my motto is, "if you like it, i love it." i feel the same way about women with relaxers. your head, your choice. do your thing.

 

[aja1121]

And that's whole other can of worms. Because heat can permanently alter your texture too. Next they'll be saying conditioner is a chemical.

Yes tell me about. So because I made a couple of mistakes with a blow-drier and flat iron and I can't get a perfect revert am I no longer natural? PLEASE DON'T REALLY ANSWER THAT!

 

[BrockStar]

I say it's just texture...If i put color in my hair I'd still consider it natural b/c i could color it back..can't go back from a perm though...

 

[LadyEuphoria007]

For the sake of the hair boards I agree with the term virgin hair and natural for colored. I only say this b/c of coloreds using products that may run the risk of color fade. (I'm a colored natural to that term though LOL)

IRL though, my coworker went "natural" and was the one that kinda motivated me to do the BC. Well I just found out recently that she's actually texturized. Her hair looks and behaves like natural hair, she even calls herself natural. I don't feel that she's natural but I wouldn't tell her that mainly b/c it really doesn't matter that much to me AND she's gone through the same ridicule at work for "going natural" that I have.

I feel like she is a liar though b/c she says "I'm Natural" knowing damn well she texturizes her hair. That's like wearing a afro wig (over a relaxer) and being like "I'm natural" well at least to me.

How is that natural and how is that not a lie? But we still talk about hair stuff, share tips and go to natural hair salons together.

If I was asked I would say whatever it is she calls herself...not tryna start drama at work over another chicks deff. of natural.

Good POVs yall.

 

[naturalgurl]

I'm a natural that uses all natural. Not because I think I'm being super natural, but because MY experiences with chemicals and lab produced products have been detramental to my hair. If I could use cones, gosh darn it, I'd use them. I get accused of being "too natural" or that I think I'm better. I don't push my views on others and bash what they use or do to their hair. Everyone's hair is so different. It's like damned if you do damned if you don't. I could see if I were militant but I'm not. I'm more of a flower child type. Live and let live...ya know. I just came to a realization about MY hair and that I want to use all natural on MY hair. Not being an advocate. So I see both sides, but really, who is to judge??? And why in the world do people want to push their opinions on others???

 

[JustKiya]

I use the term "virgin" to describe hair that is unaltered by chemicals (color and/or relaxer/perm/texturizer, etc.)

I use "natural" to describe texture that has been unaltered even if color has been applied to the hair.

Yes, precisely! I'm natural - my hair isn't virgin, and hasn't been for ages because I use henna. I've actually been kicking around the thought of going virgin again - I dunno.

Ahhh....my favorite subject.

I'd never just roll up on somebody with a pink BAA or platinum blonde locs or lavender twists and staple a scarlett "N" to their chest. But I would definitely think to myself, "that ain't natural", which is totally my perogative.

Here's the thing, when these topics come up on the hairboards or IRL if someone ASKS FOR THE OPINIONS OF OTHERS, folks are well within their rights to explain what they deem to be natural and what's not.

But unsolicited condemnation is just a-hole behavior and people who do that should be pointed in the direction of the nearest pile of rocks for them to go kick.

And PRECISELY once again, to the bold. I've seen siggys where people say they are natural, go to look at their fotki, and see them talking about needing a touchup - and we ain't talking bout color, neither. No matter what their texture is, they aren't natural anymore - but I'm not finna leave them a nasty fotki comment pointing out the fact - I'm just going to make a mental note and roll on. Ain't my place to comment on their confusion.

However - all that said - I feel that using any chemical process (be it changing the color or the texture) does have an impact on the hair. What a virgin 3b needs is going to be different from what a color treated 3b needs, which is going to be different from what a 4a texturized to be a 3b needs - simply because the use of relaxer/color changes/breaks down the hair - and that is a crucial difference that DOES need to be clearly stated on the hairboards.

IRL - *shrug* I really don't care. Heck, on the hair boards, I really don't care if you call yourself natural and get a touchup every 10 weeks (I might think you are deluded, but I won't care) - all I know is that I won't be using your products/suggestions/recommendations as if they would work in a similar way on my natural hair.

 

[MonPetite]

There seems to be an unspoken desire for "natural" to be its own exclusive little group....Perhaps as a way to deal with the negativity being natural can bring?

A sort of "We're special in our own way, so we don't care if YOU don't like it because WE know who WE are and WE like it."

But if there are no tidy lines, the feeling of "Safety in numbers" of community and a sense of standard and validation (not over others, just that natural is good in its own right, and I think it is) can be lost.

Or perceived as lost.

I don't see how a women who texturizes from 4b to 4a is "limiting all the fun possibilities of being natural" as mentioned by an above poster. I'm not going after her statement but it made me think.

It bothers me I may be screaming NO CHEMICALS! NO CHEMICALS! just because it further validates my "naturalness".

LACTIC ACID IS A CHEMICAL.

So...do all the resident naturals who use yogurt need to change their signatures?

If LACTIC ACID is okay...why not calcium hydroxide?

Why are people so willing to let some things slide and not others?

Or is this just an LHCF norm? Like how some threads in relation to heritage are permissable and others are not?

Changing your hair color is a CHEMICAL PROCESS. Your hair has been chemically altered. Some would say, "But my texture is the same!" Yes...but you're still no longer "natural" as we define it: No chemical processes.

Why are some things allowed to slide, some allowed to seemingly have their cake and eat it too...while others are not? Just to maintain this definition that tends to exclude rather than include those who suffer the same social condemnation as others?

It boggled my mind. I still haven't figured out where I stand, but I'm getting a better picture of how my own mind works thinking about it.

 

[DivaD04]

well said ladylibra ita whicha
unless i'm included about hair....
personally i don't think about what other folks got going on with their heads, i only have time for my own, my dd's, and my hubb's (once a week when he's ready for a cut). now if a person wants to take that up and beyond....that's their prerogative.
littlegoldenlamb...who has that kind of time to go around being the natural police? are folks going around giving out citations for not being "politically" natural in the ooh's (officer of hair) eyes?

Irresistible...ah yeah! i remember the fro being called a natural....wow what a glimpse! that just gave me a happy feeling from childhood...lol

 

[Christa438]

I consider natural to mean relaxer free. So as long as the texture is natural, that's what really matters to me, I will not say someone is not natural because she has colored her hair just like I will not say someone isn't natural because she has thermally straightened her hair (the woman who thermally straightened her hair didn't have her hair grow out of her scalp like that either, but yes I still consider her natural.)

 

[MonPetite]

well said ladylibra ita whicha
unless i'm included about hair....
personally i don't think about what other folks got going on with their heads, i only have time for my own, my dd's, and my hubb's (once a week when he's ready for a cut). now if a person wants to take that up and beyond....that's their prerogative.
littlegoldenlamb...who has that kind of time to go around being the natural police? are folks going around giving out citations for not being "politically" natural in the ooh's (officer of hair) eyes?

Irresistible...ah yeah! i remember the fro being called a natural....wow what a glimpse! that just gave me a happy feeling from childhood...lol

I hope nobody. I sure as heck don't plan to, want to, or have the time or emotional energy, LOL!

 

[DivaD04]

I hope nobody. I sure as heck don't plan to, want to, or have the time or emotional energy, LOL!

okay! folks can really take a little nothing and push it beyond it's limit. we should be out here encouraging each other instead of tearing each other down about their heads.....
OFF TOPIC: why is it 1045 pm right now and playhouse disney is on....some little muppet lambs were just singing mary had a little lamb and since that was't enough, took mary to CHUCH! it was just too cute!
...okay back to the subject; twice 've challeged my sister to grow her hair(me and her are always growing our hair or doing whatever to it) and this last time i dare her to go w/o a relaxer for a year( and then was like okay 3 mths), since we were talk'n about hair...she kinda shrugged me off and that right there told me she was not agreeing w/me, her response was i haven't used one in a min. but i need one so i was like oh! se was already stretc'n and didn't even know it, due to being broke...but i knew to back off, it's her head and not mine, she disagreed with me but that was solely her right since it was hu head

 

[Neith]

Just responding to the first post...

Your hair isn't natural if you color it. You have your natural texture (or very close to) of course, but your hair is permanently changed. Hence, it isn't what naturally came out of your scalp. It's not opinion, it's a fact.

When we talk of naturals here or on most other forums, we are really talking about texture only. Dunno why, but that's how it is around these part.

HOWEVER...

Hair shouldn't mean SO much to people. You are not your hair.

Hair texture isn't something you should be ashamed of. Relaxed or not, it means... NOTHING. Except that it's the way you choose to wear your hair.

Black women have such a complex about their hair.

You don't see curly vs. straight debates on "non ethnic" long hair boards.

It's such a deep rooted issue. It's not just about hair... it's tied into racial identity and other issues.

I understand where everyone is coming from, but sometimes it's just wise to step back and look at ourselves.

Why are we arguing about HAIR TEXTURE?

It seems silly, and something that is truly not important. There are much bigger issues in the black community and we can't get past hair.

 

[naturalgurl]

There seems to be an unspoken desire for "natural" to be its own exclusive little group....Perhaps as a way to deal with the negativity being natural can bring?

A sort of "We're special in our own way, so we don't care if YOU don't like it because WE know who WE are and WE like it."

But if there are no tidy lines, the feeling of "Safety in numbers" of community and a sense of standard and validation (not over others, just that natural is good in its own right, and I think it is) can be lost.

Or perceived as lost.

I don't see how a women who texturizes from 4b to 4a is "limiting all the fun possibilities of being natural" as mentioned by an above poster. I'm not going after her statement but it made me think.

It bothers me I may be screaming NO CHEMICALS! NO CHEMICALS! just because it further validates my "naturalness".

LACTIC ACID IS A CHEMICAL.

So...do all the resident naturals who use yogurt need to change their signatures?

If LACTIC ACID is okay...why not calcium hydroxide?

Why are people so willing to let some things slide and not others?

Or is this just an LHCF norm? Like how some threads in relation to heritage are permissable and others are not?

Changing your hair color is a CHEMICAL PROCESS. Your hair has been chemically altered. Some would say, "But my texture is the same!" Yes...but you're still no longer "natural" as we define it: No chemical processes.

Why are some things allowed to slide, some allowed to seemingly have their cake and eat it too...while others are not? Just to maintain this definition that tends to exclude rather than include those who suffer the same social condemnation as others?

It boggled my mind. I still haven't figured out where I stand, but I'm getting a better picture of how my own mind works thinking about it.

So is it safe to say I use chemicals in their natural state versus chemical compounds??? Look at the chart of elements. Elements are either basic or acidic. Everything is a chemical, but when you combine them, now that's a different topic altogether. So none of us are natural...You can split hairs until infinity. I think people should just be who they are and not judge or find rhyme or reason with what others do unless it's to better themselves.

ETA~ I sound like I'm attacking you Littlegoldlamb. I'm just making general statements to support what you're saying...I thinK. LOL!

 

[Southernbella.]

Just responding to the first post...

Your hair isn't natural if you color it. You have your natural texture (or very close to) of course, but your hair is permanently changed. Hence, it isn't what naturally came out of your scalp. It's not opinion, it's a fact.

When we talk of naturals here or on most other forums, we are really talking about texture only. Dunno why, but that's how it is around these part.

HOWEVER...

Hair shouldn't mean SO much to people. You are not your hair.

Hair texture isn't something you should be ashamed of. Relaxed or not, it means... NOTHING. Except that it's the way you choose to wear your hair.

Black women have such a complex about their hair.

You don't see curly vs. straight debates on "non ethnic" long hair boards.

It's such a deep rooted issue. It's not just about hair... it's tied into racial identity and other issues.

I understand where everyone is coming from, but sometimes it's just wise to step back and look at ourselves.

Why are we arguing about HAIR TEXTURE?

It seems silly, and something that is truly not important. There are much bigger issues in the black community and we can't get past hair.

Regarding the two bolded statements...I totally agree with them. I WISH hair was just hair. I WISH it wasn't a deep rooted issue tied into racial identity. But it IS. When the vast majority of black women are unwilling or unable to wear their hair in it's natural state (I include myself in that because I was relaxed too), then it's more than just hair.

So we should continue to talk about it, don't you think? It's just like racism...trying to brush it under the rug does nothing, IMO.

 

[Neith]

Regarding the two bolded statements...I totally agree with them. I WISH hair was just hair. I WISH it wasn't a deep rooted issue tied into racial identity. But it IS. When the vast majority of black women are unwilling or unable to wear their hair in it's natural state (I include myself in that because I was relaxed too), then it's more than just hair.

So we should continue to talk about it, don't you think? It's just like racism...trying to brush it under the rug does nothing, IMO.

I feel that people should realize what we are doing. All of the emphasis put into whether it's natural, coily, relaxed, colored... it's misdirected anger/shame/who knows what else. It's not truly important.

The hair is not the problem, it's the underlying issues that REALLY need to be worked out. I wish that we could talk more about that.

Of course, this is only for natural vs relaxed or any debate over hair types specifically. Sharing tips and techniques is different.

 

[DarkVictory]

These are very thought-provoking questions. I'm trying to get a hold of what you're asking, but am not getting part of it.

Consider this:

If I and another woman are walking down the street and I am 3c/4a and she is "naturally" 4abcdefg and texlaxes to a 4a, and an obnoxious individual drives by and yells: "DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT NAPPY HAIR!" at the both of us,

With you so far...
does it make ANY SENSE AT ALL for me to turn to her and say, "You're not natural...that was just about me. What're you looking funny about? I'm the one who should be astonished/angry/surprised/etc.!"

Whoah! Big leap! Isn't everyone entitled to her opinion about what natural is?

As far as anyone is concerned we're both "natural" and in this case apparently "nappy". Is it worthwhile or even SENSIBLE for me to then decide to segregate her from myself when the rest of the universe does not? It seems like the problem would lie with ME and MY perceptions.
Anyone care to take a nibble?

Stick with me, here:

Suppose my cousin and I are walking down the street. Someone drives by and yells, "Get out of here, you welfare mothers!"

Does it matter that neither of us is on welfare and that I'm not a mother? Of course not. An insult is an insult.

Being natural is like being a mother - a fact - if you're not, you're not. What names people call you, what problems they give you, anybody's opinion on it - not related to the fact.

When I say I'm not a mother, I'm not "segregating" myself from ladies who are. Same with hair being natural or virgin or untreated or whatever you want to call it.
Am I saying something bad when I say someone's hair is not natural? Why is the designation of "natural" important?

 

[naturalgurl]

Why is the designation of "natural" important?

Exactly!

I don't throw rocks at people for their hair choices, why people got to throw them at me? I just let them slide by. If you want to get technical, none of us are natural. Chlorine in the water system, preservatives in our food, etc. etc. All of these chemicals everywhere makes us not natural. I just prefer to LIMIT my chemical intake and just let my hair be. If putting yogurt in my hair(lactic acid) or limes (citric acid) or whatever means I'm not natural SO WHAT. I like this hairstyle option and that's what it is and should be for EVERYONE. I'm just me whether I choose to get the broken down natural "chemicals" or the compounds they mix in the lab. So does that drive the point home??? Let's keep it light.