Why the desire to use the word "curls" in reference to kinky natural hair?

[SweetSpirit86]

I understand what they mean when they say they don't have a curl PATTERN. The absence of curl completely, and the absence of a pattern are two different things. My hair is a constant ring, whether it is a tight ring, or a slightly larger one. But that ring constantly repeats itself in a pattern. You're not going to look and suddenly see a "z" in the pattern of "o" somewhere.

Now if someone's hair goes from..."z" to "s" in no particular pattern...zzszsszssszzs...or something, that would be lack of a pattern, but the curl is indeed there. Like you said...no curl whatsoever would be straight. "-----" If any of us had that characteristic, no...our hair would not be a 4b-z, but a 1something, and not in "need" of a relaxer.

 

[1QTPie]

It all means the same thing to me. Kinky, coily, curly, nappy.

 

[Neith]

Im thinking of something along the lines of "4C" that's naturally "afrolike" & knots up easily.

Me too.

How can it be afro-like if it doesn't have any type of curl/kink/coil/wave though?

Hair without any texture is straight... It's not a question of coarseness either. People have very coarse, straight hair and there is nothing afro-like about it.

In all seriousness, I've never understood that one...

 

[Lucia]

Asians have coarse straight hair, it doesn't hold a curl, they can't style it.

 

[SweetSpirit86]

Asians have coarse straight hair, it doesn't hold a curl, they can't style it.

Yes they can. It's stubborn, but it CAN.

 

[Neith]

I remember on NP there was one girl that was confused about her hair type. She couldn't find anyone with hair like hers. Her hair was quite unique, unless she was pulling legs. Her natural hair was very straight - no curl. Yet it was obviously textured. It didn't look at all like caucasian hair. It looked sort of like blow dried afro text hair except it wasn't blowdried. It was very strange and perplexing.

I've seen people like that.

I just assumed that they had very coarse, but very loosely wavy/curly hair that is really frizzy. Or heat damage...

but it's nothing like a c napp. I definitely see tons of "texture" in that.

 

[dynamic1]

Wouldn't that describe straight hair?

Human hair comes straight, wavy and various degrees of curl - from kinky to loose curls.

I always wondered about people who say they don't have a curl pattern. I always thought of it as kinky/coily hair that just doesn't clump together into neat coils on it's own.

The absence of curl/coil/kink/wave = straight Right?

How can one be highly textured and not have any texture?

That's my thoughts on it...

I could be wrong though... what do you guys think?

Some hair has a pattern of sharp angles and bends rather than loops or an s pattern. I have noticed that many with this hair characteristic indicate they have no curl pattern. But it is all variations on a theme to me.

 

[Neith]

Some hair has a pattern of sharp angles and bends rather than loops or an s pattern. I have noticed that many with this hair characteristic indicate they have no curl pattern. But it is all variations on a theme to me.

So... I'm thinking it's more like an uneven coil?

There are plenty bends and turns, but they don't neatly form the "O" shape or "S" shape?

Makes sense Thank you!

Wow. That would be hard to define.

but saying no curl pattern is confusing because I think "straight" when I hear that.

 

[music-bnatural-smile]

No offense but, this post rubs me the wrong way. Especially since you are 3c (as noted in your siggy). How is 4b hair "blackness?" Are those without it less black? Calling it "blackness" sound like you're stereotyping.

That was like a childhood thing... Pople hounded me for having my hair thats all...
I'm not stereotyping but the world stereotyped me as "white" for my hair... thats why I wanted 4b hair cuz I thought then ppl would leave me alone...
its not my personal opinion, just a previous reaction I had from an experience in the past
don't be rubbed wrong we all have pretty hair

 

[Carrie A]

I've seen people like that.

I just assumed that they had very coarse, but very loosely wavy/curly hair that is really frizzy. Or heat damage...

but it's nothing like a c napp. I definitely see tons of "texture" in that.

right. It's different than a c-napp. That girl was pushing wavy-really pushing (honestly I didn't remember seeing any waves) and claimed to not heat style so IDN. None of the c-napps claimed her poor thing.

 

[SEMO]

That was like a childhood thing... Pople hounded me for having my hair thats all...
I'm not stereotyping but the world stereotyped me as "white" for my hair... thats why I wanted 4b hair cuz I thought then ppl would leave me alone...
its not my personal opinion, just a previous reaction I had from an experience in the past
don't be rubbed wrong we all have pretty hair

I understand. Thanks for responding. I apologize for jumping to conclusions. I just know, from personal experience, how living in cerain environments can mess a person's mind up when it comes to certain things.

 

[Priss Pot]

I call my hair kinky curly, but most times I just say kinky. Doesn't bother me any.

 

[bablou00]

I just call it what I feel like that day. If it looks curly its curly if it looks nappy and kinky its nappy and kinky. I have hair all thru out that has a so called "curl" pattern but mostly my hair is dominanted by 4b coils, curls, kinks, naps, etc....its just hair! IMO

 

[silvergirl]

i usually refer to my hair as coils, or waves, cause thats what it is. if it were curly or kinky or nappy. then thats what id call it but isnt. i actually remember when i was relatively new and i called my hair nappy at one time and i got schooled lol. and told that my hair wasnt like that at all.

my hair is
coily. - like a phone wire
wavy..... like an S wave


.........
my hair is not
kinky... tiny tiny z like angles
curly - partially stretched coils but not waves
nappy - very thick hair almost bush like, very very compact

i dont see any of those as negative

 

[Ediese]

I hate to see or hear the word 'nappy', so I prefer not to describe my hair that way. It carries a negative connotation. I describe my hair as coarse, kinky, coily, or curly. It's formed of hundreds of spiral 'curls', so I think my description is pretty accurate.

 

[Netta1]

OP, So why the desire...well..

It depends on who you ask and who is willing to be honest with you. The fact of the matter is that nappy hair has been viewed historically as BAD. Curly ( European hair didn't have a bad rep non-curly non-European hair did...um Assimilation....

...long after Assimilation (even though we weren't there, most of us were taught...)

SO

Many of us are still trying to PASS. I am not saying its anyone here on LHCF (goodness forbide), I am not saying that all black folks who call their hair curly are trying to PASS...

However

I am saying that going natural is uncomfortable (for most) and after years of thinking that straighter hair is right and nappy hair is wrong...I mean should we really be surprized that people opt for curly vs "plain old nappy"?

 

[Shandell]

I am a 4b/a with some coils in the front and back when it dries it does not look curly it looks like black cotton with sporadically placed coils. Someone saw may hair today and said, "she needs a perm quick." I looked her in the eyes and smiled. LOL. Trust me they were not considering my hair 'curly' either or they would have never been bold enough to express their ignorance. My hair is considered 'nappy' but I call it 'natural'

 

[tocktick]

I've sometimes used the word "curls" when describing something about my hair. Personally, I just never put too much thought into it. As far as I'm concerned, coils are just smaller, compact looking curls. I've also used the word coily to describe my hair. *shrug*. If someone thinks I'm trying to "elevate" my hair to a higher "status" (because they openly or subconsciously view type 3/type 2 hair as superior) then that's on them. Imo, they need to be questioning their own mindset because it just isn't that deep for me.

Disclaimer: in case anyone's looking at my current sig or avi thinking WTF erplexed, my hair is stretched out and manipulated in both pics.

 

[Junebug D]

It's all the same to me. Though when I am being descriptive, I would generally call type 3 hair curly and type 4 hair coily, kinky, nappy. Nappy is not a negative word to me.

 

[vkb247]

My hair is coily. It does not look anything like a curl, it looks like an actual spring coil.

I understand why ppl refer to their hair as curly but it just doesn't "fit" in my opinion.

When people get a straw set or use rods to get spiral curls don't we call this a curly hair do? I don't see the difference except size of the spiral.

I understand what they mean when they say they don't have a curl PATTERN. The absence of curl completely, and the absence of a pattern are two different things. My hair is a constant ring, whether it is a tight ring, or a slightly larger one. But that ring constantly repeats itself in a pattern. You're not going to look and suddenly see a "z" in the pattern of "o" somewhere.

Now if someone's hair goes from..."z" to "s" in no particular pattern...zzszsszssszzs...or something, that would be lack of a pattern, but the curl is indeed there. Like you said...no curl whatsoever would be straight. "-----" If any of us had that characteristic, no...our hair would not be a 4b-z, but a 1something, and not in "need" of a relaxer.

What your describing is lack of uniform pattern but this is definitely still a pattern.

I am actually insulted by the fact that many people do not consider kinky/nappy/natural hair to be curly as if it is not good enough to be included in this category. My 13 year old niece was shocked to discover that she had curls when I taught her to cowash this summer. When left alone her whole head forms beautifully perfect 4a coils all over. I asked her what type of hair she thought she had and she said she didn't know. So sad. Like Neith said, hair is either straight, wavy, or curly. What are the other options?

 

[dynamic1]

curl

1. To have or cause to have a curved or sinuous form or surface: curve, undulate, wave.
2. To move or proceed on a repeatedly curving course: coil, corkscrew, entwine, meander, snake, spiral, twine, twist, weave, wind 2, wreathe

 

[LiberianGirl]

If it's technically true, it's true. Period.

I don't see how one would come from that conclusion when a person is speaking the logical truth.

A coil is a small curl. They are synonyms. There is just a shadow of difference between the two when you are talking about hair. Coil LITERALLY means small curl.




How can one be in denial when they actually DO have curls in their head?


I get what y'all are saying somewhat, but I don't agree. Just because someone says that their hair is curly doesn't mean that they are talking about large curls.

It's not like anyone is thinking that they are fooling anybody. It's easy to see what people's curl diameters are

MY hair is kinky, coily, curly, highly textured, "rough", nappy and anything else you wanna call it.

And nope, I'm not in, nor ever was in denial about that

THANK YOU! 3's can't give 4's advice, 4's can't give 3's advice, 4's can't call
their hair curly...etc. So much division amongst ourselves, when it's not even necessary.

 

[msa]

When people get a straw set or use rods to get spiral curls don't we call this a curly hair do? I don't see the difference except size of the spiral.

For me, the size of the spiral matters. Because my coils are small they don't fit the definition of the word "curly" as it is commonly used in real life. There is no one who would describe my hair as curly, including me.

 

[Carrie A]

For me, the size of the spiral matters. Because my coils are small they don't fit the definition of the word "curly" as it is commonly used in real life. There is no one who would describe my hair as curly, including me.

This is a good point. The image of curly as we know it is very Eurocentric. Historically it is viewed as a very loose coil or wave. Yet that is not the true definition. We have created our own definitions to describe our hair which is definitely distinct from European. What's wrong with expanding the definition to include the description of our hair as curly (as by definition it already does) vs. rejecting the definition altogether. Is it because no one else accepts it? Why do Europeans have to have a lock on curly?

ETA: While still embracing all if the other unique terms to describe our hair.

 

[Solitude]

For me, the size of the spiral matters. Because my coils are small they don't fit the definition of the word "curly" as it is commonly used in real life. There is no one who would describe my hair as curly, including me.

I hope you would agree that's it's your personal opinion that the size of the curl matters. (I'm sure you do since you said "for me") Most black people (IRL) that I know simply refer to our hair as curly or wavy. The majority of people are simply not familiar with the terms "kinky" or "coily." Those are hair care/hair board terms. For example, if a man gets a hair cut and has has any type of visible curl or wave, no matter how small, people will say he has "curly" or "wavy" hair. That doesn't mean he would have wide, 3-type curls. "Curly" includes all types/sizes of curls.

If the hair is not styled and there is no visible curl or wave, that is what I usually heard being referred to as nappy or frizzy growing up. I don't understand why someone said we are mimicking "their" language by saying curly - the English language??? lol, what other language are we supposed to be using?

I know I'm not natural, but I just had to jump in this convo because my new growth literally curls around itself. I can see the curls. The other day I was detangling my hair and I said to my friend, "my new growth is so curly!" There was no hidden meaning behind what I said. It's just what I saw in the mirror.

Anyway, conversations like this make me want to get to know my natural texture. My hair in the front never kinks, coils, curls, waves, or anything else . I just don't get the hair typing thing.

 

[Shandell]

When people get a straw set or use rods to get spiral curls don't we call this a curly hair do? I don't see the difference except size of the spiral.



What your describing is lack of uniform pattern but this is definitely still a pattern.

I am actually insulted by the fact that many people do not consider kinky/nappy/natural hair to be curly as if it is not good enough to be included in this category. My 13 year old niece was shocked to discover that she had curls when I taught her to cowash this summer. When left alone her whole head forms beautifully perfect 4a coils all over. I asked her what type of hair she thought she had and she said she didn't know. So sad. Like Neith said, hair is either straight, wavy, or curly. What are the other options?

I understand your point. I personally believe that 4b hair has so called coiled curls; however, when most people use that term they are referring to people with larger curls like a 3a/b/c my daughters hair; not a tightly coiled 4b like myself. But, when I cowash I see a lot of coils or curls; it is the unmanipulated state that matters and my hair to me is not curly it is a chunky shrunken fro unless it is stretched using twist or braids then the coils are defined.

 

[Kurlee]

curls are curls whether they are big or small. Kinky and nappy have historically been used in a negative and derogatory way. Our hair is curly, whether it is big or small, it is still curly. A coil is a tight curl, so no matter which way you slice it, unless you are a CNAPP or 4b or type 1, your hair is curly in some way.

 

[msa]

CarrieA, it is a Eurocentric term but you're right, it's not exclusive to them and they surely don't, and shouldn't, have the lock on it. I'm not saying I don't use it only because the common definition doesn't fit me, but it is one of the reasons.

Solitude, you're right, it is my personal opinion in regards to my hair. "Curly", as the word is generally used, just doesn't describe my cottony mass of coils.

I like to acknowledge how my hair is different from others and describing it in it's own terms is a way to do that. Curly is a catch-all description that doesn't illustrate the unique characteristics of my hair.

 

[jennboo]

curls are curls whether they are big or small. Kinky and nappy have historically been used in a negative and derogatory way. Our hair is curly, whether it is big or small, it is still curly. A coil is a tight curl, so no matter which way you slice it, unless you are a CNAPP or 4b or type 1, your hair is curly in some way.

LOL. I know you meant to use 'Our' in a collective sense...bc my hair is most definitely not curly. I guess i must be the only member among the 20,000 here who does not have curls or coils or S patterns, just Z, zigzag, bends, crinkles, and frizz

And to the bolded, I don't think thats whats being disputed. Some folks' hair IS curly. But i frequently see people refer to c-napp, 4b hair, in general, as curly.

 

[Austro-Afrikana]

I don't say curly, wavy, kinky, coily and definitely not nappy (i think it's rude). I've always just said that i have afro hair, simple.