"Why Educated Black Men Won't Settle Down" (blog post)

[Bunny77]

The funny thing though is that most of the black men I met while in college were really cool and down-to-earth men.

The ONLY one I met who wanted to "stunt" was a guy who came from the 'hood high school and thought he was hot stuff for just going to college. It was kind of silly how he'd brag about getting a 3.2 from Hood High and how various chickenheads would drop the panties when he said he was in college.

Meanwhile, I was going to an all-black college prep PUBLIC high school where black men got 3.2s or better with much tougher curriculums and were NOT bragging about it. Going to college was merely another expected step along their life path -- one to be celebrated, sure, but one that was mapped out from day one.

I went to a decent college, but it wasn't even the best in Michigan... so the first guy looked really foolish to black women who grew up in a different environment to be bragging about merely being close to graduation at a decent state school and getting a 3.2 when he was in high school.

All of this to say that the blog that Glib Gurl posted seems to describe a certain type of educated black man that sorely lacks a broader perspective. Those are the types of men to be avoided...

 

[Syrah]

To go back and address more on this topic...

I find that too often, if one's "black experience" is not a tale from the 'hood or one of struggle, it is dismissed as not being authentic. Which I find to be rather offensive, but even more bothersome when it comes from black folks who would be oh-so-pissed if a white person made the same comments.

Now, that being said, I do think that we are approaching (or are in the middle of) a social shift in which more women are attending college and the men aren't following suit. It's not so much, from what I can tell, that male enrollment is declining significantly, but female enrollment is increasing so much that the gap is becoming obvious.

So... because more black women than ever are getting college degrees (and going for advanced degrees) and the number of black men doing the same might be stagnant, a situation is created where the men might be more inclined to think of themselves more highly than they should.

At the very best, they simply might put off marriage for a while to enjoy their options (which is what many of us are seeing now), but still maintain a goal of marrying. These guys usually do marry, and their wives are often black. You just might not catch them until they're 35.

At the worst, they start stuntin' and strutting like peacocks about being some rare gem, and black women should bow down in their presence. The bad thing is, too many black women do this figuratively, which only serves to blow up their heads even more.

The way I always addressed this was to simply say, "Cool, that's great!" when such men mentioned their educational background and then begin talking about other things. That was a good way to weed out the types that expected a black woman to pay homage to them for just inhaling their essence, versus the really good guys who took pride in their education, but didn't see it as something that made their doo-doo smell good.

True that there is a definite shift occurring as evidenced by the number of women vs men attending colleges - a disparity that widens the further along you go in your post-secondary education. But I'm of the belief that if we stop tolerating nonsense, those rarities amongst us who have college degrees rolleyes men will begin to realize that in order to find a suitable partner, THEY will have to follow suit.

I think 33 is the prime age for attracting one of these. Why? Because they're on their way to being established in a career (in other words - the path is visible and is no longer a dream) and they're slowly being surrounded by more married people. At the same token, they've had some time to play and experience the good, bad and ugly of dating.

It's interesting - my DID (34) mentioned that his boss took note of the fact that in the past 3 years, he's brought 3 different girls to the company Christmas party. And he said the comment was sarcastic, but definitely not positive. At some point, its viewed as a sign of "immaturity" and while it won't have serious professional ramifications, folks start paying attention. And a lot of companies, when you move into management positions and rotational programs, they have events for you and your spouse to meet with other management folks and their spouses. Corporate America (unless you're running a hedge fund) oddly expects you to be married at some point...

Instead of discussing why educated black men won't settle down, when they are and do - we should be discussing ways of knowing that a man when a man is trying to find Ms Right rather than Ms Right Now.

I dunno - I just wish we'd kill this notion that success black men are adverse to getting married, when that's not the case.

 

[Bunny77]

I think 33 is the prime age for attracting one of these. Why? Because they're on their way to being established in a career (in other words - the path is visible and is no longer a dream) and they're slowly being surrounded by more married people.

LOL, I'll be 33 two days after I get married. (Dude isn't black, but the same general standard applies... and in general, I'm seeing more of my black male friends posting wedding pictures on their FB pages.)

It's interesting - my DID (34) mentioned that his boss took note of the fact that in the past 3 years, he's brought 3 different girls to the company Christmas party. And he said the comment was sarcastic, but definitely not positive. At some point, its viewed as a sign of "immaturity" and while it won't have serious professional ramifications, folks start paying attention.

I see this all over the place. Men (not just black) moving up in the career world, maybe getting management jobs or getting considered for some... and they're starting to get the side-eye from the higher-ups. While they're talking about taking little Billy to baseball practice and little Madison to soccer practice, here these dudes are talking about the latest chick they met in the VIP last night.

These single men really start to notice the difference when everyone is talking about the wife/kids/new baby and they suddenly have nothing to contribute.

Instead of discussing why educated black men won't settle down, when they are and do - we should be discussing ways of knowing that a man when a man is trying to find Ms Right rather than Ms Right Now.

I dunno - I just wish we'd kill this notion that success black men are adverse to getting married, when that's not the case.

Right. What I did was not even entertain the ones who would constantly be noncommittal. These were the types who would usually send a random text/FB message out of the blue and go, "Hey Bunny! Long time no chat! We need to get together soon!"

Then I'd say, "Great! Pick a time and place and I'm there!"

Crickets.


So, I stopped responding to such messages and didn't even keep them around as just cool friends. Didn't need the energy of a bunch of unready men around. If a man didn't ask for a date very early on in our interactions, I knew he wasn't ready.

 

[BGT]

Heh heh heh... okay, you want to talk about perspective? Let's talk about perspective.

In the past year, you have interrupted numerous posts about dating/relationships with your "woe is me, no one wants me," story.

When black women on this board have discussed their experiences dating and enjoying the company of successful, good-looking and generally nice men (black or otherwise), you jump in with the most incredulous questions, pretty much saying, "HOW do you find these men? Where are you? How is this possible?"

In fact, your wording is almost exactly the same as what you asked me above... as if you can't stand the idea that unlike you, there are black women living in black areas having success forming relationships.

What else, hmmm... you've jumped into threads to "inform" the posters that they should just make peace with the idea that they might not get married because the numbers are against them and it's "so hard" for black women...

Then you declared in a thread in which we were ogling non-black soccer players that none of them were likely to be on a board talking about how attractive black women were... and you ran away quickly when folks called you out on your foolishness...

Oh yes, and then you disputed a statistical fact about the longterm success about black women in marriages with non-black men, saying it was from a biased website, when in fact, it came from Census statistics.

And as for the most disturbing thing you've posted... your impassioned defense of a white gunman who shot up a group of women in an exercise class, saying that you could "understand" the feeling of being rejected, and maybe if people were just nicer to him, he wouldn't have gone on a homicidal rampage.

Hmmmm...

So, the reason I can't take any of your posts seriously is because your perspective is one of someone who's had a spectacularly poor time trying to date, and you want to spread your poison among other black women who aren't wearing ashes and sackcloth and weeping and wailing about no one wanting them.

Everything you've posted in this thread is more of a reflection of YOUR confused mindset rather than anything about how black women are unsuited for relationships with good men, black or otherwise.

Oh snap Bunny!

 

[Xerxes]

I can sit here and go on and on all day about the dudes that I go to business school who are all college educated, who have had at least 4 years of work experience prior to pursuing their MBAs, who admittedly talk a lot of sh!t about how they get down, but are honestly and openly marriage minded and have that not only as a goal in mind, but something worth pursuing etc.

I don't think its a matter of being in denial about the numbers of available successful BM. I think its having ACCESS to relationship-minded successful Black Men that is the issue. And moreso, its access to them in an environment where they are thinking "Barack and Michelle" (healthy relationship) not Ice-T and Coco . It's meeting them at the Playboy Jazz Festival not the NBA After Party. Because the other truth about these successful BM is that until they meet Ms. Right One, they're ok playing with Ms. Right Now.

And while I agree that we all have limited experiences, aren't we also focusing on limited groups of the population? We're not sitting here talking about the average black man (whatever that is) or the average American man (whatever that is).

To take a step back and have to consider the broader picture seems counterintuitive in this discussion if the broader picture or "general population" isn't part of the consideration set. Why would you consider what is average if "average black man" isn't what you're after?

No. The bulk of my discussion has not been focused on the limited pool of successful blacks.

I responded to Bunny's assertion that a black male having a degree is a dime a dozen.

Bunny made a general remark about black males and I refuted it with facts.

In general and in everyone's personal experience, focusing your attention on just black men with degrees, greatly narrows the amount of men you can consider. A black man with a degree is something to be given some distinction, since all of us blacks are lagging so horribly in education. Although, I only consider high-achievers as mates, I still have the ability to see how few men that leaves available to me to choose from. I still have perspective and I am grateful for each guy that makes the cut. lol

Now, for your sake, let's just consider the small pools of successful single BW to successful BM (there is no stat to support how many of each group are truly "marriage-minded"), the ratio is still unbalanced.

I looked up the stats on black women with master's and doctorate degrees and it was way more depressing than I thought. So if I try to limit myself to just MS/PhD holding blacks, then there are 209 black women for every hundred black men.

So we have not gained anything from narrowing our discussion. There simply aren't enough black men in that group to "access" the way you wish to.

Now individually, you can make this work, it's just as a group, we all are not going to be happy.

If you are determined to "access" these well-educated brothers, just keep going to your professional group's conferences and hang out at places where intellectual blacks frequent, like museums, alumni meetings, etc.

Also, focus on those $hit-talking brothers you go to school with. Every single woman who wishes to marry, regardless of background should focus on the men she readily attracts currently as her pool of potential future husbands. In your niche, you already are around some of the men you seek, be honest and forthright about your intentions and take it from there.

If you are a high-achieving BW surrounded by nonblacks and nonBM ask you out, try them out. If you are a regular BW surrounded by BM and they ask you out, try them out. I don't think that a woman should read the stats and ignore her pool of eligible bachelors already asking her out in pursuit of men who have never shown her any interest.

I think you're in a good spot at your program and I wish you the best in men and in attaining your degree.

 

[Rastafarai]

I find it interesting how "educated black men" and the potential for success are being defined by the type and number of degrees a man has.

I'm not saying that higher education isn't important, however, why do we continue to use it to define a man's worth and by extension limit ourselves in finding a great mate?

 

[Rastafarai]

The truth is an educated, successful, single brother is in limited supply and on astronomically high demand.

I simply don't understand why a number of BW are still in denial about the numbers of available successful BM.

Maybe I am living on another planet but I've come across more than enough "successful single brothers" (I'll add "who prefers black women") in my neck of the woods.

I really really really think the media has done a number on our psyche in trying to convince us there aren't enough educated/successful single black men around.

There are a number of great black men out there. Some degreed, others not, all equally successful. Hardworking. Single...AND looking...to MARRY.

I don't know where ya'll be living, fo' real.

 

[Syrah]

No. The bulk of my discussion has not been focused on the limited pool of successful blacks. I responded to Bunny's assertion that a black male having a degree is a dime a dozen. Bunny made a general remark about black males and I refuted it with facts.

In general and in everyone's personal experience, focusing your attention on just black men with degrees, greatly narrows the amount of men you can consider. A black man with a degree is something to be given some distinction, since all of us blacks are lagging so horribly in education. Although, I only consider high-achievers as mates, I still have the ability to see how few men that leaves available to me to choose from. I still have perspective and I am grateful for each guy that makes the cut. lol

I would say that the only difference between you and Bunny is the basis for your arguments. You're focused on black men as a whole. She's focused on what she considers to be "datable" black men. And my question is why are you focusing on black men on a whole or average black man if average black men is not what you seek? At some point you need to narrow your focus or risk dilution.

I agree that a small proportion of us have degrees, or multiple ones. I disagree that a black man with a degree is worthy of distinction. Like Bunny, amongst my friends, 90% of the Black men have degrees. And the one who doesn't has been traveling the world as a musician for the past 6 years (currently on tour with Herbie Hancock). He perfected his craft outside of the classroom.

What about having some standards? Where is the cutoff point? I like to travel. I like wine (hence the screen name). I snowboard and play tennis. None of that is cheap. So as a black woman, who while being open to dating men of other races, is attracted to and prefers black men, I have two options:

1. Widen my dating my pool and recognize that I may have to give up the things that I like. Or
2. Narrow my dating pool and recognize that there is a greater likelihood that I will either date/marry outside of my race (to widen the pool) or be alone.

THIS I recognize. However, I chose option 2. And what I realized in making that decision, I started meeting more of BM2.0. With a change in my mindset came a change in where I went, the people I surrounded myself and the things that I liked to do. Oddly enough, now that I am seriously dating someone, I'm SURROUNDED by BM2.0s. And the first time DID came to visit me at school and came out with me and my friends, HE realized I'm surrounded by BM2.0s and started playing for keeps.

Now, for your sake, let's just consider the small pools of successful single BW to successful BM (there is no stat to support how many of each group are truly "marriage-minded"), the ratio is still unbalanced.

I looked up the stats on black women with master's and doctorate degrees and it was way more depressing than I thought. So if I try to limit myself to just MS/PhD holding blacks, then there are 209 black women for every hundred black men.

And to this I say get your game face going. The fact is, if you want IT and it being a long term relationship with a successful BM2.0 you're going to have to compete for it only in the sense that in sheer numbers there are 2 of you for every one of him. Someone has got to lose.

My attitude: I will NOT lose. Some other woman can choose to be single - I choose NOT to be.

Also, focus on those $hit-talking brothers you go to school with. Every single woman who wishes to marry, regardless of background should focus on the men she readily attracts currently as her pool of potential future husbands. In your niche, you already are around some of the men you seek, be honest and forthright about your intentions and take it from there..

This I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with. Ladies need to look around and look at what they're attracting. If you're attracting bums, as hard as it may be to admit to yourself, THESE are the men who currently see you as datable or marriage-able. It's time to stop and ask yourself why. I had to do the self assessment. Cuz for a while AFTER college, I was notorious for attracting gang-bangers - shoot, I could be at Mr. Chow and attract the one negro in the place who couldn't report his income to uncle Sam. I figured out why and I changed that. Although I did get approached by a Weezy lookalike in the airport this weekend...DID and his friends thought it was funny.

It's all about getting yourself into the consideration set - how do you get considered?? We do it. Men do it. All of us like tall, bow-legged men. But most men are not tall or bow-legged. Some of us who swore we had a 6'0" minimum are dating men who are 5'10" on a GOOD day....how they'd get into the consideration set?

How do you get into his consideration set? It's access!

 

[Syrah]

Maybe I am living on another planet but I've come across more than enough "successful single brothers" (I'll add "who prefers black women") in my neck of the woods.

I really really really think the media has done a number on our psyche in trying to convince us there aren't enough educated/successful single black men around.

There are a number of great black men out there. Some degreed, others not, all equally successful. Hardworking. Single...AND looking...to MARRY.

I don't know where ya'll be living, fo' real.

If I understand Xerxes' point in terms of educated black men and straight census numbers, there are more of us then there are of them. It's a numerical fact. It is not a 1:1 ratio and the ratio is NOT in our favor.

The problem is, it sounds as though her and others have bought into the notion that "it will not be me that he chooses". That mentality is a CHOICE. And it is a mentality I do not and will not subscribe to. I'm too fly for that.

 

[Bunny77]

Like Bunny, amongst my friends, 90% of the Black men have degrees. And the one who doesn't has been traveling the world as a musician for the past 6 years (currently on tour with Herbie Hancock). He perfected his craft outside of the classroom.

Exactly. I know that in Michigan (and especially Detroit), educational attainment for the general black population is beyond horrible.

But honestly, most of the folks that are being referred to in that struggling statistical group wouldn't be in my circles anyway... not because I'm deliberately excluding them, but simply because similar people hang around each other.

Let's see... to do my job, you have to have a college degree, so the black men at my workplace all have degrees. There's one who doesn't, but he's skilled in a special technological area in which it's very difficult to find employees, so he doesn't need one. He does quite well for himself and operates his own business.

I don't work around the factory employees who might have lower educational levels and usually don't go to the same hangouts where they are. They wouldn't be at the professional conferences and mixers where the college educated black men would be... and neither would the black women without a college education.

So... there's really not much chance that I would really get to know those undereducated black men very well because we would not be interacting to any degree on a day-to-day basis. So they might as well be irrelevant to me and my college-educated (or otherwise well-trained) black female friends unless we specifically sought them out. And obviously, I'm not going to do that... why would I?

I have to think long and hard to even come up with one black man in my age range that I know that does NOT have a degree (and it's that dude I mentioned above). I'm not talking about the random brotha I passed on the street this morning, but the ones I know as colleagues, friends, associates and the like.

However, I chose option 2. And what I realized in making that decision, I started meeting more of BM2.0. With a change in my mindset came a change in where I went, the people I surrounded myself and the things that I liked to do. Oddly enough, now that I am seriously dating someone, I'm SURROUNDED by BM2.0s. And the first time DID came to visit me at school and came out with me and my friends, HE realized I'm surrounded by BM2.0s and started playing for keeps.

Yep. It's funny how when I NARROWED my dating pool, the selection actually got better.

 

[LunadeMiel]

Educated Black me are a rarity now No wonder why some of these AA men are walking around like they are God's gift to the world. I feel so sorry for AA women if that is what they are being fed. I can name 5 black men off the top of my (with Masters degrees) right now who are single and looking.

Really, ya'll need to stop this

 

[calmsensual1]

Has it ever occurred to some of y'all that maybe the media/powers-that-be/white people/ (illuminati? lol) don't want to see black men and women together?

Movies very rarely have black couples in them anymore.
hitched, hancock (i think it was hancock, i dont feel like googling it), guess who, various commercials, music videos and songs, archer, the last star trek movie that came out, avatar and the list goes on.

I know that there are occurrences where black men & women date each other in the movies and on tv etc but this new interracial trend seems to be growing, at least in the media. I remember reading the textbook for my latin american history class and it stated that they tried to phase blacks out of the countries future by promoting interracial relationships. It may have worked, to some degree, in some countries (I've never met a black person from Mexico. Although I know they're there).

Anyway, perhaps they're trying the same thing- eliminating as many black men as they can by throwing them in jail forever. When they get out they're deemed "not marriage material." For the ones who don't get thrown in jail they tell them to date outside their race. And yes, I realize (or believe rather) that many black men are being told by OTHER black men to date interracially.

With that said, I honestly believe men do want to get married but it happens MUCH later in life for them. Especially black men. There's nothing wrong with that. What that means for women is we have to get them when they're young (before they start going around thinking they're IT) or when they're in their 30's or whenever the heck they realize they want to settle down. Furthermore, I'm sure they DO want to settle down. But the way the legal system is, doesn't make it very appealing for them.

Lastly, I think it depends on where you are. I'm in central Texas. The chances of me finding a black men here who is interested in dating black women, much less ME, is slim. I'd have to go to Houston or Dallas. I'm with a black man now (don't know how that happened), but if I weren't, I'd probably be dating outside of my race.

 

[Bunny77]

Has it ever occurred to some of y'all that maybe the media/powers-that-be/white people/ (illuminati? lol) don't want to see black men and women together?

Not really.

It has occurred to me that it's easier for us to blame outsiders instead of recognizing that we are largely responsible for our own relationship issues and the breakdown of the family in the black community.

(We being black folks in general.)

 

[Xerxes]

Heh heh heh... okay, you want to talk about perspective? Let's talk about perspective.

In the past year, you have interrupted numerous posts about dating/relationships with your "woe is me, no one wants me," story.

WTF! Seriously, that's a lie and you typed it.

I have never written anything that said I have dating problems and no one wants me. I have talked about me ending my relationships because I'm chaste. If you thought I wanted you to feel sorry for me, I feel sorry for you.

I do bring up the stats on BW and marriage, but since I don't limit myself to BM, I'm not a part of that problem. And I have stated repeatedly as I'm sure you have read, that intelligent BW who are in primarily nonBlack niches, should consider the nonBM asking them out instead of hoping for a high-achieving, marriage-minded BM to appear when they don't know any.

Finally, I can't "interrupt posts". What, were you trying to type a post and I prevented your post from appearing??? Come on, now.

Perhaps, what you meant is I threw in some logic/facts and that disrupted the flow of conversation. The thread changed direction and was no longer the way you liked it.



When black women on this board have discussed their experiences dating and enjoying the company of successful, good-looking and generally nice men (black or otherwise), you jump in with the most incredulous questions, pretty much saying, "HOW do you find these men? Where are you? How is this possible?"

Huge lie number 2. The only time I asked a chick about where she found her guy was when she said he was celibate. I have never met a truly celibate attractive, successful BM.

In fact, your wording is almost exactly the same as what you asked me above... as if you can't stand the idea that unlike you, there are black women living in black areas having success forming relationships.

What else, hmmm... you've jumped into threads to "inform" the posters that they should just make peace with the idea that they might not get married because the numbers are against them and it's "so hard" for black women...

I created a thread where I asked the ladies in a poll how they would feel if they never married since about 45% or more of BW have never married regardless of age and 70% of BW are single currently.

When you consider the glaring evidence, that it's possible that 45% of us might never marry, then it makes sense to discuss how I feel about it personally if I never find a suitable mate and I wanted to hear from others how they felt.

Bunny, the odds are against us as a group, but individually, we determine our unique paths that may go against the grain. I loved some of the comments from that thread because a number of girls showed little interest in ever marrying anyway. It ended with I think just a bit over 60% of posters saying they could not imagine never marrying and that's great since 55% of us should marry anyways.

It was not a pity party. It was a presentation of facts and then an open discussion to find out from each person what truly mattered to them. I like being brutally honest and I did not mind then nor do I mind stating now that marriage is a part of my plans, but should it not happen, I will be let down, but I will still live and make the most of my life raising adopted children.

Then you declared in a thread in which we were ogling non-black soccer players that none of them were likely to be on a board talking about how attractive black women were... and you ran away quickly when folks called you out on your foolishness...

Sigh. This is getting odder and odder. No one "called me out" and I don't "run out" of threads. I leave when I get bored. Answer this question, on any Maxim Top 100 sexiest women polls, how many are BW???? I remember this thread because there were only a handful of black male pics posted and I found that to be odd considering all of you are overwhelmingly black. I maintain that girls should focus their attention on men that want them. I said it then and I just repeated myself. To break it down further, only 3% of BW are in IR marriages compared to about 9% of BM. There's a very small group of BW that should focus their attention on nonBM, since only that small group has a shot with them.


Oh yes, and then you disputed a statistical fact about the longterm success about black women in marriages with non-black men, saying it was from a biased website, when in fact, it came from Census statistics.

It didn't. What I refuted was a statistic on how many nonBM desired BW, that was NOT from the census! It was from whitementhatloveblackwomen.com or something similar!CTFU


And as for the most disturbing thing you've posted... your impassioned defense of a white gunman who shot up a group of women in an exercise class, saying that you could "understand" the feeling of being rejected, and maybe if people were just nicer to him, he wouldn't have gone on a homicidal rampage.

This is some really old stuff you're dragging up. Yes, Bunny, I still believe that sensitive individuals who feel marginalized by society, can be pushed to act out under stress. If you treat anyone like crap or ignore them, please believe that mental strain will result in some sort of manifestation, not always of violence but usually self-destructive behavior, suicide. That man could have been stopped, but none of the people around him alerted the proper authorities. However, he as the killer is to blame for the actions he chose, he should have sought help from a therapist. I always maintained that he was ultimately guilty, but we must put an end to bullying and reach out to people with kindness.

I find it unsafe to simply label individuals as crazy or wackos and not look for trends that shows culpability. Seriously, if you know an antisiocial guy or see one misbehaving, take it upon yourself for your safety and others and report him. We all can help stop massacres like that if we are compassionate.

As a woman, I hate how other women attack each other based not upon reason but emotions. I remember a while back that a horde of you turned against one young poster, Msa. That kind of childish taunting is what led one young girl to commit suicide a year ago.

So if you find me to be "disturbed," fine.

Hmmmm...


So, the reason I can't take any of your posts seriously is because your perspective is one of someone who's had a spectacularly poor time trying to date, and you want to spread your poison among other black women who aren't wearing ashes and sackcloth and weeping and wailing about no one wanting them.

Everything you've posted in this thread is more of a reflection of YOUR confused mindset rather than anything about how black women are unsuited for relationships with good men, black or otherwise.

I'm shocked that you seem so preoccupied with my life and posts. Also, what's sad is that you maintain that I am "interrupting posts" and "jumping into threads" as opposed to simply posting my opinion just like you and every other poster on this entire board. I accept your opinions and don't call them disruptive, I just don't agree with them at all and I like that you have them. However, it's important for everyone's opinion to have a space and then we can all argue equally.


So now I have to ask you some rhetorical questions. Aren't you getting married?

If you are, why are you spending your wedding planning time worrying about me? Why are you bringing up posts from years past?

Why are you fuming for over a year about things I have said and nearly forgotten?


For the record, when I state the BW stats and say "that's why I'm an equal opportuntist and God help me as I begin my little countdown to marriage with this new guy," I mean it. When you put all of my posts together, that's how they read.

Black people as a whole are screwed and we need to make better decisions individually and collectively, but Xerxes is in God's hands and is trying to make sure that the men she's currently dealing with are appropriate for her.

To be completely honest, if I were engaged right this second, there's no way in hell I would be typing to you. It was hard enough finding time to do it today. This is pointless.

 

[Xerxes]

Thanks Bunny....

I haven't been on LHCF to know the history of various posters but I got the distinct feeling that Xerxes was dismissive of my experience and perspective as a happily married BW to an educated BM who knows other similarly educated, professional Black couples. Like I said in my post, we need to peel back the layers and figure out what role media (via blogs, television and even discussion boards) play in creating this hysteria that Black men and women cannot or will not get along. There are too many successful Black marriages (not shown in media but still present) to claim otherwise.

Xerxes - Do you honestly believe a educated black man should get a pass to act funky toward sistas? Puh-lease. That's like men who want extra credit for taking care of their kids.

Getting a degree is a minimum given what past generations endured so we could even get a college education. Besides, why set standards so low for Black folks? I don't give a damn what white folks do in terms of education because their skin privilege more often than not trumps our education. We need a college degree as cultural and social capital to help us enter spaces that are closed off to the "average Black man and woman." That is an inarguable fact. So getting a degree was and is a minimum standard for most middle-class Blacks and even many lower-class, uneducated Blacks bust their tail to move into good areas so their kids have a fighting chance at an education. Sure, we should celebrate when a black person gets educated but let's not make out like this is such a rare occurrence that this person deserves to have their name added to some walk of fame. Black men have been getting degrees since the 1800's and still managed to marry Black women. It's not the fact that they are educated that's at issue.

I contend the BW have changed a great deal since the '60's/'70's wherein we are less likely to sit by and allow the man to take the lead and will not wait for a man before we get educated, etc. BM haven't fundamentally changed all that much. They still want a traditional nuclear family arrangement with the father as the head of the household. Since BM can't control much outside of the home, they want to be masters of their domain at home. I'm not saying these BM want a subservient wife but they do want to feel some locus of control over decisions regarding money, children, etc. I think the fundamental problem for Black folks is unwillingness to give a little. I know it was hard for me given I had been alone, putting myself through school and working many jobs to rely on someone else and ask for help. There were times when I expected my husband to drop the ball. But I had to put my faith in the strength of our relationship and his maturity as a man. Basically, I had to stop being a control freak and he had to stop thinking I was going to run our household like his momma ran theirs as a kid. Honestly, I think we need to surrender the need to be in control of everything. Until we do that, we're going to continue to have relationship strife, IMO.

It's great you're around successful blacks, but there's a whole race of people around you failing miserably at attaining the marital bliss you and your network of friends are enjoying.

And please reread my posts because we as a nation, whites, blacks and others are failing at getting degrees. Currently just 1 out of 4 WM have degrees. We all have quite a bit of work to do so it is retarded for the bulk of our group to expect others to all have degrees just because we might have one. Education is a sore point for all and we are the worst of the pack.

 

[calmsensual1]

I agree Bunny, it is easier to blame everyone but ourselves.

The only reason I started thinking that our relationship problems may be caused by something other than us is because I read about it in my textbook. For the big-wigs in latin american countries to devote time to break African families up is shocking, to me, anyway. So I thought why wouldn't they be doing the same thing here? That's when I started looking for evidence in the media to support this claim. Which is why its just a (conspiracy) theory.

I really believe that we created our own problems and now the media is noticing our dysfunction and running with it. They love black dysfunction.

 

[Valerie]

There's some truth to what she posted in her blog but at the end of the day, an educated black man is not required to settle down and if he does, he can choose whoever he wants.

Totally agree with you, women have to be honest with themselves. Women have to do what is in the interest of them, if they are with a man that is not committed to them, leave him and get someone else.

 

[Bunny77]

I agree Bunny, it is easier to blame everyone but ourselves.

The only reason I started thinking that our relationship problems may be caused by something other than us is because I read about it in my textbook. For the big-wigs in latin american countries to devote time to break African families up is shocking, to me, anyway. So I thought why wouldn't they be doing the same thing here? That's when I started looking for evidence in the media to support this claim. Which is why its just a (conspiracy) theory.

I really believe that we created our own problems and now the media is noticing our dysfunction and running with it. They love black dysfunction.

Latin American history is something else, isn't it? Crazy stuff!

While I'm sure greater American society has no great love for black folks, the reason I can't see a conspiracy here is because black folks are still reproducing with each other, but we're simply not doing it all that much in a stable structure.

We're not marrying interracially in large numbers (not large enough to eradicate black people)... but the fact that we're creating so many children outside a traditional family structure eventually hurts everyone... which is why I can't see how white society is benefitting in any way by the lack of marriage among black people.

 

[Bunny77]

So now I have to ask you some rhetorical questions. Aren't you getting married?

If you are, why are you spending your wedding planning time worrying about me? Why are you bringing up posts from years past?

Why are you fuming for over a year about things I have said and nearly forgotten?


For the record, when I state the BW stats and say "that's why I'm an equal opportuntist and God help me as I begin my little countdown to marriage with this new guy," I mean it. When you put all of my posts together, that's how they read.

Black people as a whole are screwed and we need to make better decisions individually and collectively, but Xerxes is in God's hands and is trying to make sure that the men she's currently dealing with are appropriate for her.

To be completely honest, if I were engaged right this second, there's no way in hell I would be typing to you. It was hard enough finding time to do it today. This is pointless.

Quick answers: Regarding what you posted in bold, I can find the exact posts that back up exactly what I said. It's not worth doing so, but trust me, I don't just make up "lies" for fun. Some of the posts that I am referring to are not the ones you're thinking of, by the way (like the one about the celibate guy... that's not the thread I was talking about).

I have a fantastic memory and believe me, you are FAR from the only poster whom I remember, so your posts alone are not the only ones that I've filed in the back of my head. But when I notice a pattern of folks being a little "off," I will call such folks out when they continue to post nonsense when more reasonable posters are trying to have a conversation with them. It's not worth arguing a point when one poster with a history of left-field ideas wants to keep coming back with them.

Now, about your marriage question... although rhetorical, I'll answer anyway...

-Since when does getting married mean that you drop your hobbies? Shoot, some of the main posters on this board are married with kids. Unless I'm posting to you on the week before my wedding, my wedding day or my honeymoon, what does getting married in say, four months, have to do with whether or not I should be posting on the board?

Plus, my man lives in another state and he's on a trip with his dad. I'm off work for the summer. What am I supposed to do, sit in a chair, look at his picture and cry because he's not with me? FH is cool and all, but uh, I hope you know that having a boyfriend/husband/fiance doesn't stop you from doing all the stuff that you did before you met him.

Like posting on LHCF...

 

[Bunny77]

Last reply....

I said...

Oh yes, and then you disputed a statistical fact about the longterm success about black women in marriages with non-black men, saying it was from a biased website, when in fact, it came from Census statistics.

And you said...

It didn't. What I refuted was a statistic on how many nonBM desired BW, that was NOT from the census! It was from whitementhatloveblackwomen.com or something similar!CTFU

Oh, those statistics about the success of marriage? They were LINKED (ever heard of that) to the IR website from the National Council on Family Relations, which got their stats from the CDC National Survey on Family Growth. Not the Census (my bad), but a GOVERNMENT AGENCY.

Since you struggled to understand this concept, here is the abstract from the actual study.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119400377/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

"But Will It Last?": Marital Instability Among Interracial and Same-Race Couples*
Jenifer L. Bratter** & Rosalind B. King**
Correspondence to **Jenifer L. Bratter is an assistant professor in the Department of Sociology at the Rice University, P.O. Box 1892-MS 28, 6100 Main Street, Houston, TX 77005 ([email protected]). Rosalind B. King is a Health Scientist Administrator in the Demographic and Behavioral Sciences Branch at the Center for Population Research, National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, 6100 Executive Boulevard, Room 8B07, MSC 7510, Bethesda, MD 20892-7510 ([email protected]).

*We would like to acknowledge the editors and the anonymous reviewers for all of their helpful comments on this manuscript.
Copyright © 2008 by the National Council on Family Relations
KEYWORDS
divorce • family • interracial marriages • marital dissolution • race
ABSTRACT

Abstract: The literature on interracial families has examined social stigmas attached to interracial relationships but has not thoroughly documented whether crossing racial boundaries increases the risk of divorce. Using the 2002 National Survey of Family Growth (Cycle VI), we compare the likelihood of divorce for interracial couples to that of same-race couples. Comparisons across marriage cohorts reveal that, overall, interracial couples have higher rates of divorce, particularly for those marrying during the late-1980s. We also find race and gender variation. Compared to White/White couples, White female/Black male, and White female/Asian male marriages were more prone to divorce; meanwhile, those involving non-White females and White males and Hispanics and non-Hispanic persons had similar or lower risks of divorce.


So the only one who needs to, "CTFU," apparently, is you.

 

[BroadstreetBully]

Not really.

It has occurred to me that it's easier for us to blame outsiders instead of recognizing that we are largely responsible for our own relationship issues and the breakdown of the family in the black community.

(We being black folks in general.)

Exactly. People tend to forget that outside of the world of blogs and message boards, most black people have no idea that these "issues" exist. Black people hook up everyday and outside of the professional bunch, there is no black male shortage. Blue-collar black men are in high numbers, and black women who prefer these men will never have a problem finding them. As for the media, it only affects those who buy into it. If black women are losing self esteem points because of the media, perhaps we should watch less TV and go out and live more.

 

[BeautifulFlower]

Educated Black me are a rarity now No wonder why some of these AA men are walking around like they are God's gift to the world. I feel so sorry for AA women if that is what they are being fed. I can name 5 black men off the top of my (with Masters degrees) right now who are single and looking.

Really, ya'll need to stop this

Really?? Are they cute?

 

[Syrah]

Really?? Are they cute?

Tangent: why does it seem like black men get shorter with more education?!

 

[Syrah]

It's great you're around successful blacks, but there's a whole race of people around you failing miserably at attaining the marital bliss you and your network of friends are enjoying.

And please reread my posts because we as a nation, whites, blacks and others are failing at getting degrees. Currently just 1 out of 4 WM have degrees. We all have quite a bit of work to do so it is retarded for the bulk of our group to expect others to all have degrees just because we might have one. Education is a sore point for all and we are the worst of the pack.

I guess I'm not quite following your education argument. Agreed - the more educated you become, the fewer of US (Black folks) there are and the more the statistics skew in favor of US (Black women). Honestly, what does this have to do with whom I choose to date and ultimately marry? Or with whom you choose to date and ultimately marry?

You can choose to allow these statistics to convince you that the likelihood of you finding an equally yoked man are slim to nil. I just don't understand why you would CHOOSE that mentality...

 

[Syrah]

Exactly. I know that in Michigan (and especially Detroit), educational attainment for the general black population is beyond horrible.

But honestly, most of the folks that are being referred to in that struggling statistical group wouldn't be in my circles anyway... not because I'm deliberately excluding them, but simply because similar people hang around each other.

Let's see... to do my job, you have to have a college degree, so the black men at my workplace all have degrees. There's one who doesn't, but he's skilled in a special technological area in which it's very difficult to find employees, so he doesn't need one. He does quite well for himself and operates his own business.

I don't work around the factory employees who might have lower educational levels and usually don't go to the same hangouts where they are. They wouldn't be at the professional conferences and mixers where the college educated black men would be... and neither would the black women without a college education.

So... there's really not much chance that I would really get to know those undereducated black men very well because we would not be interacting to any degree on a day-to-day basis. So they might as well be irrelevant to me and my college-educated (or otherwise well-trained) black female friends unless we specifically sought them out. And obviously, I'm not going to do that... why would I?

I have to think long and hard to even come up with one black man in my age range that I know that does NOT have a degree (and it's that dude I mentioned above). I'm not talking about the random brotha I passed on the street this morning, but the ones I know as colleagues, friends, associates and the like.


Yep. It's funny how when I NARROWED my dating pool, the selection actually got better.

I get the fact that depending on where you go, what you do and who you're around, meeting successful black men is difficult. So change those factors.

I had to stop putting myself in situations where I was a small fish in a HUGE pond. So I stopped going to "First Fridays" and "professional black mixers" because they were filled with nothing but women. Black ski weekends? Nothing but men...I was there with my mother because we were there for a women's camp. We got off the ski lift and we're like .I stopped going to the clubs and started going to music events. I still got my dance on, just instead of Hollywood Blvd I'm at the Hollywood Bowl. And low-and-behold - groups of brothers EVERYWHERE. UCLA Jazz Fest and the Playboy Jazz Festival (don't worry - there are no bunnies)...groups of brothers EVERYWHERE.

 

[cheetarah1980]

^^^ Yep, it's all about knowing where to go. Why go to a place/event that's going to be a chickfest? If you want to meet men, go where the men are. I also have noticed that the more active the activity (lol) the more men I find (i.e. road races, golf events, sporting events, etc.). A woman on another message board I frequent gave some good advice when she said to volunteer to work the welcome table at professional networking and charity events (even if it means waking up early). You get to see the potentials before every othe woman, but more importantly they get to see YOU. She never has problems finding men.

 

[nappystorm]

He hit the nail on the head with point #2 (from my experience anyway). Tis all

 

[clevagirl73]

It's great you're around successful blacks, but there's a whole race of people around you failing miserably at attaining the marital bliss you and your network of friends are enjoying.

And please reread my posts because we as a nation, whites, blacks and others are failing at getting degrees. Currently just 1 out of 4 WM have degrees. We all have quite a bit of work to do so it is retarded for the bulk of our group to expect others to all have degrees just because we might have one. Education is a sore point for all and we are the worst of the pack.

Why are you so preoccupied with what white folks are doing with regards to education? As I pointed out in my post, with or without a degree, their skin privilege almost guarantees them a decent job, access to home loans, etc. Black folks don't have that luxury...Every statistic says in order for us to be successful, we need a college education. So to intimate that it's retarded for me to expect Black folks to either have or want a degree because I have multiple degrees is ridiculous and it contradicts your very last statement. "We are the worst of the pack" indicates that you think there is something wrong with Blacks' lack of educational attainment but you wanted to chastise me for expecting Black folks to have or want to pursue a college education.

Nevertheless, I still don't understand, like Syrah, your defeatist mentality regarding BW's chances of marrying an educated BM. But when you allow selected news reports and blog posts become your reality, I guess there isn't much more for there to be said.erplexed

 

[Miss_C]

Enjoyed this thread so much I decided to bump it. Interesting points made throughout. I'd be interested to see how or if the viewpoints of the posters have evolved since then.

 

[CaraWalker]

this was a nice conversation, i guess, but i see yall were still deep in denial about the eligibility issue a few years ago.

there are black people that come from and live in upwardly mobile circles. true.

there are people that would invalidate a person's "black experience" if it wasnt a hard luck from the hood story. true.

the majority of black people (men and women) come from "the hood" and do not have a college education - ALSO TRUE.

you hear that black people? things that seem seemingly different can ALL be EQUALLY TRUE, ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

yall were looking on the bright side to the point of delusion in this conversation. it really bordered on gaslighting, tbh.