When You're Just Too Independent!

PrissiSippi

PrissiSippi

Simply Komplex
I'm just not that feminine to me. I can read a book all day but I have my ish together, have my ducks in a row for the most part, and I just don't NEED a man for anything.

But men are natural protectors. I feel They NEED to feel like they are protecting providing and helping their mate. Captain save a chick so to speak.

Now I shouldn't be comparing myself to basic chicks I know but these girls have not a care in the world. They know they don't have enough money to take care of their basic needs or children needs but they don't care because they know their SO will take care of it.

Nails done, car note paid, daycare paid, they're not using their own money for that lol. That's what ole dude for.

Is it just as simple as a closed mouth doesn't get fed? Or is more? What's simple tips or thoughts to keep in mind?

How can you be strong and independent but still feminine and dependent on a man.
 
PrissiSippi said:
How can you be strong and independent but still feminine and dependent on a man.
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This is something I have often wrestled with in the past. Now a days, I just say what I need. If he gives it to me, great. If not, and I really need it- I ask. If he doesn't do it (with no valid explanations) move on.
I have gotten passed the mentality of doing things for myself. I know I can but I am tired of spending my own money, doing stuff myself, etc. What can YOU do for me? What are you good for besides coloring?
 
Hmm. In the kind of relationship and marriage I'm looking for, the man is definitely not a captain save a woman. At all.

The successful marriages I see (more my parents and my friends parents vs my grandparents) both the man and woman had successful, professional careers. They both brought in enough money to support the household which meant they could go above and beyond.

The woman is still a woman and feminine, but the man likes to attend her work functions and bring an educated and intelligent woman to his.

It seems the key is not to dumb yourself down or act like you need the man to buy you things, but to find a man that's proud and supportive of you while still working and being successful himself.

Plus I think men appreciate the idea that you're with the because you enjoy them. And there's always a threat that you could leave because you're not dependent on them at all.

But I will say this is more in a marriage than in a dating relationship. When dating the man should be putting his best foot forward.
 
You can be feminine and independent but still want a man who likes to provide. I think a problem arises when guys see your independence as an excuse to be lazy - a way out of being chivalrous, romantic or supportive.

I've had guys tell me they love that I'm independent and we didn't last long because they're searching for women who are caught up in being Ms. Independent, don't need a man, can buy my drinks and yours too (or in extreme cases, can pay my bills and yours too :nono:).

That's not me and I've been very disappointed in how lazy men can be when they think you have so much going for yourself that they can just show up for a good time. No gift on my b-day, no gift or flowers for Valentine's Day, one guy actually made plans for how we would spend my money. They gave the same excuses: well you don't seem like you need anybody or I didn't think you cared about things like that.

If I put in work to provide myself with the best, why would I be with a man who thinks he can do next to nothing?

Generally, your expectations and mentioning what you like should be enough. I've learned to move on if a guy is going on about gold diggers, questioning why he should provide or I have to demand things. That's a permanent tug-of-war and I'm not interested. I've always wanted to work as an option, not a necessity to keep the family afloat.

Tips:
  • Be upfront about what you want/expect (this is really the beginning and the end, right?)
  • When making a request, approach a man from the side, not head on because they see face to face convo as confrontational. I read that somewhere and it really works. Also, it's not what you say, it's how you say it.
  • Not you Priss, but for singles, be willing to cut your losses. If someone told me what they weren't going to tolerate but still let me in their space then I'd keep acting stupid too.
  • Don't set the tone for being a roommate or Ms. 50/50 by picking up the tab or splitting expenses to impress him/win him over.
  • Don't refuse help. He wants to fill up the gas tank and wash the car? He wants to take over a bill or take you shopping just because? Simply say thank you, not "oh, I got it babe". Matter of fact, throw "I got it" out of your vocabulary. And don't criticize small things. I might like Tysons Corner better than Montgomery Mall, but I know how to keep my mouth shut when that money is flowing. :lol:
  • Show appreciation/give praise. Men really are like children looking for their gold star, lol.
I'm sure hopeful and lux have some great input, maybe tag them.
 
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I've been guilty of refusing help. Not in this relationship but in previous ones. Someone may have said I'm going to pay your electricity bill or buy you some new clothes and instead of saying aww thank you baby I always said thanks so much but I got it. Epic Failure lol. I didn't want them to think I was using them or owed them anything.

I feel if I needed more DH would do more. He does the basics. But nails, spontaneous gifts, just because notes it's like the stage has already been set. He knows I can hold my own. But I need some surprises.
 
I'm not basic by far but I like my man taking care of me and taking care of things. I like to be taken care of period and I like men who take care of women. Because you or other women like your financially independent status doesn't mean that women who like to be taken care of are basic as you put it. In fact it's biblical. My job is to help not provide.

In that light, there are types of women and types of men so honestly I do not see if issue is I like my man giving me money to do my nails though I can afford it, vs another woman dipping into her pocket to do the same.
 
LoveLiLi said:
I've had guys tell me they love that I'm independent and we didn't last long because they're searching for women who are caught up in being Ms. Independent, don't need a man, can buy my drinks and yours too (or in extreme cases, can pay my bills and yours too :nono:).
Click to expand...

My ex who I made a topic here recently about, told me that when we were together years ago. Oh his mother and grandmother are strong independent black women :eyeroll:. This year he's telling me that he wants to spend all his money on me and take care of me. Set your own standards from the beginning and give no inches whatsoever!
 
RocStar said:
I tend to think it is more about the values/beliefs of the man, than the actions of the woman. Men who want to take care of women, take care of women.
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I guess this is a case of on the outside looking in. I've always had a chip on my shoulder since I noticed a trend. Man I was the ish to this one guy I absolutely loved during college. Helped him with his homework, booked his dentist appointments, paid his phone bill once (wtf), let him borrow money, helped him with his parents. I was captain save a heaux and he decided to leave for this illiterate chick who could t write, wasn't smart, and needed his help on a lot because she lacked experience. Really dog? Now he told me he couldn't do xyz but currently he's with this girl. Same way. He has a low paying job but he's paying ole girl car note, moved ole girl in with him, and being captain save a heaux to her and I simply believe it's only because she needed him. I understand I dodged a bullet but I feel like I did something wrong.

Dude after that left me simply because "She needs me more" which could easily be bs. And plus ole girl was crazy. She slit her wrists while we were together just to get and keep his attention. He had a decent job but almost went broke after moving in with her paying all her bills taking care of a kid not his and more.

I don't need to be cared for but I want to be. I feel like I deserve it. And I've been independent for far too long that I've missed out.
 
RocStar said:
I tend to think it is more about the values/beliefs of the man, than the actions of the woman. Men who want to take care of women, take care of women.
Click to expand...

I agree with you 110% :yep:. You don't have to convince a provider to provide or overcommunicate. And it's so much more than financial. For me it's how he makes you feel, it's concern, kindness, listening, loyalty, sexual. He wants you to be good in all areas. No one is perfect but generally speaking he aims to please you.
 
I had to learn to fall all the way back. One guy told me that he felt like he was dating his homie. I was taken aback. Even in my own family, my bros never really bothered to check up on me because in their heads they figured out that I was cool. One even asked me what I needed a man for because he had seen me do it all.

Well, life happened and I fell apart. The first time my bros saw me cry as an adult woman left them a little traumatized. These days, I call and they come running to help me. Even my SIL finds it amusing. I stopped trying to do everything on my own. I call them for all the heavy lifting I need even if I can do it myself. It's been wonderful never having to shovel snow and move my car by myself all the time. When I need furniture assembled I call, when my car is acting up I call and if it something they can fix, they do so saving me mechanic money.

Change is hard but it can be done.
 
Oh. Maybe I misread the post. Being independent means having the ability to provide for yourself.

Having someone be kind to you and listen to you is the basic foundation of any relationship.

I don't really see the connection?

If you're snotty and standoffish and people don't want to be around you or be nice to you, that has nothing to do with your independence, that's a personality issue.

ETA: that's a general "you", not directed to anyone in the thread
 
I've had this issue as well....I've been taking care of my business since I was in high school so it never really came naturally for me to ask for anything from anyone, matter of fact I hate it. I wasn't good at making men feel like they're needed, that was one of my ex's top complaints about me back in the day but he was a bum so his opinion doesn't and didn't matter.

However; as I've gotten older I've learned how to use my feminine wiles, even simple things like pretending I don't know to how to open up a preggo jar :giggle: or asking them if they can put air in my tire can remind them that you're the "weaker" sex and their little chest will puff out:giggle: . I can easily do all those things but since I can buy all my cute clothes and keep these nails done then why would you want me to dirty them up boo? :gorgeous:

I used those subtle things on my last BF a LOT and he spent on me and was always surprising me with things so sometimes the difference is the man that you're dealing with. He was a true southern gentleman and would go out of his way to do things for me and remedy any problem I had, even when I didn't ask him to, he is probably the one that helped me to soften up a bit.
 
I don't need a "man" to do anything for me, either. But I do need my parents, or mentors, or strangers, or help otherwise, in some form, from someone. We're not just out here literally doing everything on our own. We have people in our corner, that's why we're so successful.

The question is never "can I do this myself?". That is irrelevant. Duh. Let's not waste our time wondering if I can do/pay for something. Like come on now. I'm an adult human successfully navigating life. I can do any and everything, just like everyone else, if they had to. No. The question is "what can you do for me?"

If someone wants to do something for me/give me something...here is my account number/this is where you can reach me. I don't turn down help from loved ones. The hayle? You do it for me, so I don't have to and can focus on something else? You pay for it, so I can spend my money on something else? You never have to ask me...that's a stupid question :confused:

You want to leverage all of your resources, including your human capital. Makes things easier for you. Less stress. Less thinking about those things, so you can think about other things.

Oh crap. Yea idk about the feminine thing lol. But...you should let people help you...just because that's what successful people do.
 
I had to learn the hard way as well. I became so independent that a few of my exes didnt mind taking money from me... lesson learned.

Now I run for the hills for any signs of that. Being feminine meansto me:

1. Let him initiate (calls,dates etc)
2. Let him do the planning
3. Don't lead in the relationship. Mirror his actions. Dont put the carriage before the horse.
4. Allow your feminine energy to take over . No power play
5. Take care of yourself (shopping, nails, friends,etc)
 
RocStar said:
I tend to think it is more about the values/beliefs of the man, than the actions of the woman. Men who want to take care of women, take care of women.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure that's true. I knew a girl who was dating this guy (serious relationship). She didn't have a car, when they went on dates, she'd take a moto-taxi to go see him. He had this singer friend who also didn't have a car. When he had to meet with her, he sent her a car to pick her up :look:

This made GF insanely jealous when she found out, but she never said anything. They broke up eventually, he left her.

But that's definitely an actions of the woman vs beliefs/values of the man situation. Haitian women don't do the whole moto-taxi thing, that's a very white foreigner mentality. When I first moved down here, no man (platonic or romantic) would ever ask me to grab a motorcycle and meet them somewhere, but they let the white girls do it though :look:

Certain situations I'm independent, others, it would never even occur to me to not just allow/expect the man to handle it so they have no choice but to step up and handle it :yep:
 
For me, it's about keeping my mouth shut and letting him make the move. I even move slower when I'm with DH. By moving slowly, it allows him time to open my door, reach for his wallet and make plans.
Keep my mouth shut means, I don't let the words "I got this" or "I'll drive" "I'm getting gas".
It's not that I don't know how or I can't do those things without him. It's making the choice, that I don't HAVE to when he is around.
I changed my perspective and raised my expectations.
 
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When you give off the vibe that you will not accept help, you will not receive it. Men know the difference between a user and a real lady. Also, a man that feels respected and appreciated by a woman that makes him feel like a man will give her the world without having to ask.

Case and point: my car battery died. I drive less than 30 miles a month now. So my SO will remind me to start it. Sometimes I remember sometimes I don't. It completely died and the jump would only last while the car was on. While I was at work, he used his spare key and took it for a new battery and to be winterized. I didn't ask and he did more than my car needed.

After, I lavished him with praise. He blushed and acted like it was no big deal but I know he felt good about it.

The key is accepting help from men that you trust. I think this is what causes women to feel apprehensive. Yes, a man can be good and a woman can still feel ambivalent but the trust is necessary for her to let her guard down.
 
sweetvi said:
I had to learn the hard way as well. I became so independent that a few of my exes didnt mind taking money from me... lesson learned.

Now I run for the hills for any signs of that. Being feminine meansto me:

1. Let him initiate (calls,dates etc)
2. Let him do the planning
3. Don't lead in the relationship. Mirror his actions. Dont put the carriage before the horse.
4. Allow your feminine energy to take over . No power play
5. Take care of yourself (shopping, nails, friends,etc)
Click to expand...

I like this.
 
These threads pop up occasionally and the framing is always interesting to me. There is nothing wrong with being a functional adult. No one will ever fault you for that. But the framing cracks me up bc it's always a 'strong, independent woman' wondering why men don't take care of her like they take care of 'basics' (another interesting framing). If you're not getting what you want from the same man but she is, maybe she ain't the 'basic' one. :look: You can't look down on people while, in the same breath, wanting to know the secrets to their hustle. It don't work that way. :spinning:

Here's the thing. 1, Smart people utilize other people. If you haven't figured out how to do that with the person you screwing/ making babies for, you're expending energy unnecessarily. 2, As I said in another thread recently, if you don't want to be the mule, stop acting like it. You can't be 'Miss Independent, I don't need no man' and then act surprised when... no men step up. :look: They're following your cues. Send out different cues and you'll get different results.
 
hopeful said:
I agree with @Honey Bee
Women also have to understand that all men aren't providers or chivalrous no matter how you behave. You can bring out chivalrous behavior but you can't force it if it's not present. Women waste a lot of time trying to coax it or force it.
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There's a small window very early on when you might be able to coax, but it's usually long over before the woman even realizes the problem.
 
Honey Bee said:
These threads pop up occasionally and the framing is always interesting to me. There is nothing wrong with being a functional adult. No one will ever fault you for that. But the framing cracks me up bc it's always a 'strong, independent woman' wondering why men don't take care of her like they take care of 'basics' (another interesting framing). If you're not getting what you want from the same man but she is, maybe she ain't the 'basic' one. :look: You can't look down on people while, in the same breath, wanting to know the secrets to their hustle. It don't work that way. :spinning:

Here's the thing. 1, Smart people utilize other people. If you haven't figured out how to do that with the person you screwing/ making babies for, you're expending energy unnecessarily. 2, As I said in another thread recently, if you don't want to be the mule, stop acting like it. You can't be 'Miss Independent, I don't need no man' and then act surprised when... no men step up. :look: They're following your cues. Send out different cues and you'll get different results.
Click to expand...

Great points @Honey Bee !
 
Fine 4s said:
I missed my mark this weekend :(
He offered to pay for my Uber to work this weekend and I said no. Here were the thoughts that came to mind:
  • Why not just take the bus because it's cheaper
  • I should have woken up earlier and given myself enough time to take the bus as planned (maybe subconsciously punishing myself?)
  • I didn't want to be a burden
While I've improved in this area of dating, I still need to remember to surrender and I'm way more aware of this issue.
To your points @sweetvi sometimes I have to check myself on the initiation of calls and dates. However, I tend to default to him for very unhealthy reasons. I'm scared that he won't pick up for whatever reason, unavailable for a particular date and time etc. and I HATE when people don't respond to my calls or texts ASAP. Mind you, after the years of being together that has never been an issue lol. But yet, I'm still scared.
I also noticed that this pattern makes me feel like I'm waiting on HIM when I also want to initiate. So I think for me, the healthy balance is to call when I want to call or initiate an activity when I want to but not all the time. Confession over.

For example, he mentioned going away for a long weekend before thanksgiving. I said cool and started researching where I'd want to go but I never told him. He still has no idea I already know what state I want to go go lol. He reminded me this am. The only thing is that he's a late planner so if I wait on him to make plans, we'd be paying higher priced hotels, plane tix and cars etc.
Click to expand...



That is still your masculine energy coming through! I read that its an innate fear that you're going to lose him or afraid to so you do most of the leaning forward lol

You're haitian right? I noticed in my culture that we have 2 types of women..the ones that will suck a man dry and keep it moving or the ones who tend to be doormats and let the man use her and walk all over her ( im kinda like that). However its good that you noticed you should of accepted the uber offer. That is a start!!

Here is an article she wrote about that:

@Fine 4s

http://katarinaphang.com/forums/topic/why-you-should-not-call-a-man-you-date-ever/
 
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