When both are virgins, divorce rate is only 2%

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Supergirl said:
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ballet_bun said:
this is interesting ... what about those who commit themselves to celibacy, after having been with others in the past.

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I'd like to know this too.

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Very interesting indeed! I'm no longer a virgin but I did take a vow of celebacy. Does that mean that if I finally marry my marriage will last??? I don't think so. Nothing's a guarantee these days. And to be quite honest, I've heard horror stories about people who are virgins or who took a vow of celebacy only to find that the sex was dysfunctional. There's a little part of me that is fearful that I'll have sexual problems or that my husband will.
 
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vevster said:
Ok guys, I'm glad y'all are happy but you aren't talking about men and women over 30!

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Yes, you're right Vester. It becomes harder when you reach 30. I vowed to be a virgin until marriage, but when I turned 29, I felt that I just couldn't wait any longer. Now I'm 33 and while I still regret that I didn't wait, the odds that I'll ever marry continue to decline the older I get and with the more education I receive. That's a statistical fact. What am I to do in the meantime?? I am celebate and will pray and try hard to remain so, but it's a really tough situation. When I do marry, does that mean that my marriage will/will not last based on my past experiences. Surely I don't expect my husband, who will probably be in his 30's if not 40's to be a virgin...although that'd be nice. And certainly he wouldn't expect for me to be...
 
Just remember guys, stats, even when accurate, are helpful bits of information, not a prescription or prediction for every individual's life and circumstances.
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Laginappe said:
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ayeshia said:

Im not a virgin, but Im not experienced either. Because I refuse to talk about sex or my sexual history with people that I just met on the phone, they assume Im a virgin
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Well good for me
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And then I have people telling me that I dont look like I have sex?
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Anyway Bree dont even tell them you are unless you bring it up on your own
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If they assume you have sex then let them assume and vice versa. It will keep them guessing and theyll get tired after a awhile and leave you alone. The ones who stick around after that...well those are the people that are interested in you and not your sex life
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You know what? I totally agree. Your sexual history – regardless of what that history consists of – is no one’s business but yours. No one should have to explain why they don’t want to have sex with another person. Be it virginity, celibacy, or they just think that other person is not worth the nakedness. I personally think relationships – especially in those early getting to know you stages – would be a lot healthier if we took sex and sexuality totally out of the equation. These days its completely “normal” for a guy you’ve only recently met to query you on your sexual history and position preferences. Its sickening. What business is that of his? Its not likely that he’s going to get to experience any of those positions with me anyway!

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Lag, I think this is absolutely key!!!
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My greatest mistake is informing my partner about my history and he ended up breaking up with me over that! But anyway, I learned my lesson over that and in the future, my past will remain in the past...or at least we can broach the subject if it comes to that. Otherwise it will remain on wrap.
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[ QUOTE ]
Supergirl said:
Good point Lag
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!!!!

Caralexis,

What emotional baggage do virgins carry? If anything--I would think that they would have less or no emotional baggage.

I do kind of see your male friend's point. I think that V's have a diff. mentality than non-V's. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but there's a certain naivety there. I think that was one of the issues with me and my ex. He was the V and I was not. We never had sex or anything and didn't plan to until marriage, but he was just altogether in a different state of mind from myself.

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I agree with this. As a virgin, I was VERY naive. On some level, I felt as though I was entitled to a relationship with this man because I had given him something that I had kept sacred for a long time. He told me that the burden was too heavy and that he couldn't accept the responsibility. Even when I told him that it was MY choice to lose my virginity [my God, it's not like he raped me!], he still had a difficult time. What ended up happening is that he broke my heart anyway because he thought that I should gain more "experience". In the end, the other reason was that he was seeing other women, so that quadripled my heartbreak even more. He was using my virginity as an excuse to get out of the "relationship," when in fact that wasn't the total reason at all...
 
I'm feelin' you LON,

It may sound silly, but I like Celibacy over virginity (for me personally). I feel like I have enough experience to enjoy myself on my wedding night and thereafter.

LON,

Also, in your post about informing your partner of your history--I think I've kind of learned that lesson too. But what do you say if they ask? And if they specifically ask if you're a virgin--what should you say? A male friend of mine said that it's not necessary that I put it out there with men that I'm celibate. He says they'll find out in time. I called myself being upfront and letting them know they wouldn't be getting any. I don't have any regrets about that. Anyone who was there only with sex in mind would immediately show their true colors.
 
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Supergirl said:
I'm feelin' you LON,

It may sound silly, but I like Celibacy over virginity (for me personally). I feel like I have enough experience to enjoy myself on my wedding night and thereafter.

LON,

Also, in your post about informing your partner of your history--I think I've kind of learned that lesson too. But what do you say if they ask? And if they specifically ask if you're a virgin--what should you say? A male friend of mine said that it's not necessary that I put it out there with men that I'm celibate. He says they'll find out in time. I called myself being upfront and letting them know they wouldn't be getting any. I don't have any regrets about that. Anyone who was there only with sex in mind would immediately show their true colors.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I hear you loud and clear. As I start dating again, sex will eventually become a discussion topic. If they ask, I suppose you don't have to be specific about the number of people. If you're a virgin, I don't know. I told my partner when it was clear that there was a sexual attraction. He was more considerate and very concerned about me. I loved him for that. He never pressured me and once I thought that I wanted to do it, but then changed my mind in the heat of passion. He wasn't angy at all [well, probably because the a$$hole was already getting it from someone else]. Anyway, there's no easy answer to this question. If I have to broach the subject again, I'll just simply tell the truth without being specific. If he can't handle it, well, then he wasn't the right one for me afterall.

Then, it what to do you when you've fallen for someone but he doesn't want to be with you if you're celebate. A tougher question, but an easier answer: if he can't respect your oath of celebacy then again, he wasn't right for you in the first place. Even if you give in, eventually it'll come out that he's not right for you if he couldn't respect your wishes in the first place.

Everything hidden in the dark will be revealed in the light.
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I agree and I believe that God is preparing the right people for us who will fully be able to accept, understand, and value our personal standards and personal history (without detail of course
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)
 
Supergirl,
you totally grasped what i was trying to say! When I said emotional baggage, I was referring to the naivete and attachment to your first. I see how that was confusing.
But you and LON hit it on the head.

LON, that is exactly what I'm talking about. most guys just leave it alone because they don't want to be the dude that broke your heart and took your virginity.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Supergirl said:
I agree and I believe that God is preparing the right people for us who will fully be able to accept, understand, and value our personal standards and personal history (without detail of course
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)

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you 100%! I think I have come full-circle in my thoughts about sex and relationships, which means that I am more receptive now to the "one" God might be willing to send me.

I'm not a virgin and haven't had all that much experience, but I did go through a period of flings for a short time. Finally, after being hurt one time too many, I decided to try celibacy.

It's been about a year and three months now, and I did have the pleasure of dating a guy without having to worry about sex. Although we aren't together now (for unrelated reasons), that relationship taught me so much about how you can "survive" without having sex and that it can actually make this relationship much stronger. This man is now one of my good friends, which may not have been possible if we had broken up after being sexually intimate.

So now, there's another possibility on the horizon, and I think God showed me through the last guy that celibacy in a relationship is possible and that I should stick to my guns on my beliefs.
 
Bunny, I applaud you, girl!! You have shown considerable strength. I've heard that it's really difficult to become friends with someone you've been physically intimate with, much less maintain your vow of celebacy. I think it's terrific!!! You have an amazing resolve to stick with your moral and social principles. Congrats and God bless!
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Thanks LON...

It took a while to reach this decision, but after a tough breakup early last year (and a subsequent flameout), I decided I didn't want to go through that pain again.

I enjoy the peace that comes through celibacy. And sure, those "urges" come every once in a while, but then I think back to how I felt during my depressed period and it snaps me back into reality.

And you are correct about maintaining friendships with those you've been intimate with -- I haven't been able to do that. But now that I see that I can still be friends with those I dated but didn't have sex with, it strengthens my resolve even more.

And God bless to you too in your search for the one!!
 
I realize now that it is all the same in the dark. The grass isn't greener and if two people are committed and willing to learn about each others likes and dislikes then two virgins can have just as good a sex life as people with many previous partners.

Now that I think on it even more. Maybe the divorce rate is so low cuz they don't have all that past relationship baggage that comes with numerous relationships.

I know for me at least the non-sexual relationships I had were less painful as breakup time approached then the sexual ones. I tried to have a "modern" attitude about sex but I'd get emotionally attached and hurt when it all came crashing down.

Oh, well the horse is already out of the barn for me but maybe some virgins on LHCF will see that they ain't missing nothing by not having more than one partner for life.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I tried to have a "modern" attitude about sex but I'd get emotionally attached and hurt when it all came crashing down.


[/ QUOTE ]

You said it! I did this at one time too--and came to the same conclusion. We as women are built to become emotionally attached to a sex partner pretty much. There's even a hormone called Oxytocin that causes this bonding with the male sex partner. It's the same hormone that is released during child birth and causes the mother to bond with her baby.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Falon said:
I know for me at least the non-sexual relationships I had were less painful as breakup time approached then the sexual ones. I tried to have a "modern" attitude about sex but I'd get emotionally attached and hurt when it all came crashing down.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yup yup.
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I was Miss Modern Attitude about sex, yet I still got hurt during breakups. While I don't regret my first time at all, I do perhaps regret later experiences.

So even if the horse is out of the barn for me, it's staying locked in the pasture now so it doesn't get further away!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Supergirl said:
[ QUOTE ]
I tried to have a "modern" attitude about sex but I'd get emotionally attached and hurt when it all came crashing down.


[/ QUOTE ]

You said it! I did this at one time too--and came to the same conclusion. We as women are built to become emotionally attached to a sex partner pretty much. There's even a hormone called Oxytocin that causes this bonding with the male sex partner. It's the same hormone that is released during child birth and causes the mother to bond with her baby.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup...you get even more attached if you let them suck on your breasts (i heard this somewhere) and to be quite honest I think its true. Ive had three partners, and one sucked on my chest all the time, while the others really didnt pay that much attention to them. Guess who I was attached to?
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I know that sounds stupid but I believe it somewhat
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Ok, think about this scenario:

What if a female had say 1 previous sexual partner and then began a relationship with a man who had a fair share of experience. What if these two individuals began building an emotional foundation way before they considered being intimate and then later down the line they both decided that it was the right time. Imagine that in this long term relationship(maybe about 3 years), sex wasnt everything but was a bonus in that every so often, this is the way in which they express their love. Lets say that this couple are not cohabiting but were so in love that there was no possibility of either of them being unfaithful as they are emotionally fulfilled by their significant other. How benefical do you think a declartion of celebacy (by both partners)would be for this relationship in order to make their wedding night feel special and sacred. Could this do more harm than good?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Supergirl said:
[ QUOTE ]
I tried to have a "modern" attitude about sex but I'd get emotionally attached and hurt when it all came crashing down.


[/ QUOTE ]

You said it! I did this at one time too--and came to the same conclusion. We as women are built to become emotionally attached to a sex partner pretty much. There's even a hormone called Oxytocin that causes this bonding with the male sex partner. It's the same hormone that is released during child birth and causes the mother to bond with her baby.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is oxytocin only released after unprotected sex or protected sex where there's still exchange of fluid (withdrawal, pill, etc)? My personal experiences kinda show this.
 
I don't think it matters if it's unprotected or protected. I believe it's the penetration that triggers the hormone.
 
Quote
What do you ladies think would account for two virgins having a better chance (statistically) of their marriage going the distance?
Unquote

God knew what He was doing when He made His laws. My daughter got married at the age of twenty five and she was still a virigin. She married her third boyfriend. She did not start dating till college and every single boy that she dated on a regular basis wanted to marry her. The first was muslim and tried to convert her to be muslim, while she tried to conver him to be a christian. They decided to be friends in the end. The second tried her belief in staying pure til marriage and when he saw that she was serious, he dumped her. Now here her husband comes along and he treated her like a queen and is absolutely crazy about her.

I think we women could save ourselves a lot of heartache by saving ourselves til marriage. I see a lot of women who are bitter over failed past relationships where they have given their hearts and bodies to men who were unworthy of them.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Edie said:
Quote
What do you ladies think would account for two virgins having a better chance (statistically) of their marriage going the distance?
Unquote

God knew what He was doing when He made His laws. My daughter got married at the age of twenty five and she was still a virigin. She married her third boyfriend. She did not start dating till college and every single boy that she dated on a regular basis wanted to marry her. The first was muslim and tried to convert her to be muslim, while she tried to conver him to be a christian. They decided to be friends in the end. The second tried her belief in staying pure til marriage and when he saw that she was serious, he dumped her. Now here her husband comes along and he treated her like a queen and is absolutely crazy about her.

I think we women could save ourselves a lot of heartache by saving ourselves til marriage. I see a lot of women who are bitter over failed past relationships where they have given their hearts and bodies to men who were unworthy of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Not to mention saving the heartache inflicted on the children that result from those bitter and broken relationships.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think we women could save ourselves a lot of heartache by saving ourselves til marriage

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That is not neccessarily a guarrantee. I think women should be VERY discriminatory in who they choose to sleep with HOWEVER saving one's virginity doesn't guarantee a happy marriage.

I think we are put on this earth to have life experiences and learn from them.

I also don't agree with this tidal wave of women just dropping kids left and right without the benefit of marriage.
 
[ QUOTE ]
vevster said:
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I think we women could save ourselves a lot of heartache by saving ourselves til marriage

[/ QUOTE ]

That is not neccessarily a guarrantee. I think women should be VERY discriminatory in who they choose to sleep with HOWEVER saving one's virginity doesn't guarantee a happy marriage.

I think we are put on this earth to have life experiences and learn from them.

I also don't agree with this tidal wave of women just dropping kids left and right without the benefit of marriage.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think she is saying that being a V guarantees a happy marriage. I think she is saying that there is unnecessary pain that comes with giving yourself (sexually) to a man that is not your husband and I agree with that. That's not to say that a husband won't disappoint or break your heart too--but a man that is not in a covenant with you definitely has NO obligation to you.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Edie said:
God knew what He was doing when He made His laws. My daughter got married at the age of twenty five and she was still a virigin. She married her third boyfriend. She did not start dating till college and every single boy that she dated on a regular basis wanted to marry her. The first was muslim and tried to convert her to be muslim, while she tried to conver him to be a christian. They decided to be friends in the end. The second tried her belief in staying pure til marriage and when he saw that she was serious, he dumped her. Now here her husband comes along and he treated her like a queen and is absolutely crazy about her.

I think we women could save ourselves a lot of heartache by saving ourselves til marriage. I see a lot of women who are bitter over failed past relationships where they have given their hearts and bodies to men who were unworthy of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for sharing your daughter's story! I also agree that God's plan is still (and always will be) the best plan.
 
Quote
I don't think she is saying that being a V guarantees a happy marriage. I think she is saying that there is unnecessary pain that comes with giving yourself (sexually) to a man that is not your husband and I agree with that. That's not to say that a husband won't disappoint or break your heart too--but a man that is not in a covenant with you definitely has NO obligation to you.
Unquote

That is precisely what I mean Supergirl. And men are made a lot differently then women (both physically, mentally and emotionally). Sex for most of them is a conquest rather than a sharing of their heart. And unfortunately (please don't beat me over the head ladies) we women have made this game of conquest easier for them. In the 70's during the so called love generation, people toted the statement "make love not war". It was the men of that generation who were screaming the loudest. And the men today are counting on the vulnerability, loneliness and insecurities of women so they can continue to have multiple sex partners. Ladies, I know we have urges, but we are not animals. And even when animals go into heat, it is for one purpose - to procreate.
Believe me I have had my share of bad relationships and I would rather be alone than in a bad relationship. I think if women started holding back sex as an "honored priviledge" rather than as a "gotta do it urge", men would spend more time nurturing the relationship in terms of emotions, commonalities and spiritual connections. These are foundations on which strong relationships are built. Don't sell yourselves short ladies. You do not need a man, you want one. But in the wanting, do not loose yourselves.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Edie said:
Quote
I don't think she is saying that being a V guarantees a happy marriage. I think she is saying that there is unnecessary pain that comes with giving yourself (sexually) to a man that is not your husband and I agree with that. That's not to say that a husband won't disappoint or break your heart too--but a man that is not in a covenant with you definitely has NO obligation to you.
Unquote

That is precisely what I mean Supergirl. And men are made a lot differently then women (both physically, mentally and emotionally). Sex for most of them is a conquest rather than a sharing of their heart. And unfortunately (please don't beat me over the head ladies) we women have made this game of conquest easier for them. In the 70's during the so called love generation, people toted the statement "make love not war". It was the men of that generation who were screaming the loudest. And the men today are counting on the vulnerability, loneliness and insecurities of women so they can continue to have multiple sex partners. Ladies, I know we have urges, but we are not animals. And even when animals go into heat, it is for one purpose - to procreate.
Believe me I have had my share of bad relationships and I would rather be alone than in a bad relationship. I think if women started holding back sex as an "honored priviledge" rather than as a "gotta do it urge", men would spend more time nurturing the relationship in terms of emotions, commonalities and spiritual connections. These are foundations on which strong relationships are built. Don't sell yourselves short ladies. You do not need a man, you want one. But in the wanting, do not loose yourselves.

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Well said Edie!
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Speak the truth...I think alot of non-v's and v's need to to be encouraged...letting each other know that we are worth far more than what men claim.
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If we set standards they WILL follow.
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