What REALLY Sends Someone to HELL?

[poookie]

what about suicide? i've always been told that suicide = a one way ticket to Hell.

 

[Ms.Honey]

I think I'm following you.... It's just that I think that the premise behind your statements are better founded on Adam and Eve's fall in the Garden, not the establishment of the 10 Commandments.

The atonement rituals were established not because the Lord did not "expect" us to keep His commandments, but in order to position ourselves "rightfully" before Him. It's not a matter of expectation because we have free will. We can "freely choose" not to obey anything or anyone.

And the Lord knew He had to come and complete the fullness of work that the atonement rituals could not adequately fulfill.

I wasn't saying that He didn't expect for us to obey Him. What I'm saying is that He doesn't expect us to be able to keep them all, all of the time. I expect for my children to obey me but I know that they are going to mess up also. I don't think that they are going to do everything I tell them to do all of the time and they don't. That's why I have established consequences for when they disobey me.
Jesus also repaired the breach between us and the Father through His death, burial and resurrection so that we could have a relationship with Him.

 

[Choclatcotton]

Sin separates from God, because he cannot fellowship a sinful spirit, so Sin is the separator that will send to hell. Then said Je sus again unto them," I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, YE CANNOT COME." John 8:21 KJV Christs sacrifice has the power to deliver you from the hold that sin has on you and break its power.

 

[Choclatcotton]

Sin is a WILLFUL transgression of the law. WHat law? Gods laws and boundaries set for the health and happiness of his lovely creations, you. Christ came to break the power of sin so you will not have to say sorry every night on your knees, which is what I used to do until I got real tired and sick of it and I cried out to God for help. I could not help myself to constantly cross his law.

 

[AfroKink]

"If you want to go to hell, find value and worth in something that God hates and wants to destroy"

You can watch the pastor explain how to go to hell in this video clip of the sermon. Or you can listen to the full 20mins at p4cm.com.

Lys

 

[pearlygurl]

what about suicide? i've always been told that suicide = a one way ticket to Hell.

I grew up believing that but that's nowhere in the bible.

 

[pearlygurl]

To answer the question I believe the only thing that sends someone to hell is UNBELIEF (not accepting Jesus as your savior).

 

[metamorfhosis]

what about suicide? i've always been told that suicide = a one way ticket to Hell.

I heard someone say that if you are saved and ask for GOD's forgiveness before committing suicide, there is a possibility that HE will forgive you. So since you brought this up poookie, I decided to read a little more about this subject.

You know this reminds me of Phyllis Hyman. She seemed to be unlucky at love. She had one failed relationship after another. And from what I understand, she didn't love herself, and had low self-esteem. When she deceided to commit suicide, she called her ex-boyfriend up and told him. He said that she was at peace with her decision and was going to hang up on him if he tried to stop her. That beautiful, talented, woman took her own life and I didn't read anything about a relationship with GOD. She seemed to have it all but said that she couldn't live another 46 years like that. It just seems like if she had a relationship with GOD, she wouldn't need the love of a man to validate her; GOD would have been her validation.

If someone is not saved, and commits suicide, then they never knew JESUS and they would go to the hell. However, if someone is saved and commits suicide it is considered murder and it's blasphemy against GOD.

However, I think this is another subject in which the LORD would have the final call.

Here is a link for more info----> What is the Christian view of suicide? What does the Bible say about suicide?

 

[discobiscuits]

How is it impossible for anyone to keep the commandments?

The Lord wouldn't ask us to do something that was impossible for us to do, right?

I think Romans 7:7-13 sums it up. If people could keep the commandments, then they never would have needed sacrifices for their sins offered to God by the priests. We were all born in sin which preempts humans as a whole from keeping all of the commandments (at least in the OT).

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Romans 7:7-13[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. 13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.[/FONT]​

Jesus also gave instructions to people to "go and sin no more" after he forgave them. I have always believed that ALL believers could do exactly that: go and sin no more once we were born of God's spirit, walking in the newness of life (but I don't see people doing that-sinning no more). This is in the context of the New Testament under grace not the OT under the Law (AKA the 10 commandments).

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]John 5:14[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]John 8:11[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.[/FONT]
​

According to Jesus he said that the greatest commandments are to love God and to love others and they superseded the others because if you do those two, you won't commit any of the other sins the commandments tell you not to do. All of them are done against God or another person. The commandments, for the most part, are a list of SINS that we are not supposed to do. The OT takes up chapter upon chapter of specific punishments for those who are found committing said sins.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Romans 7[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]:14[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Mark 12:28-34[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?" 29 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' 31 The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."[/FONT]​

Additionally there is no commandment on fornication, yet Paul taught on it excessively. The sin of fornication is committed vicariously against God within one's own body which belongs to the Lord through Jesus' sacrifice since he purchased us with his blood. How does that relate to love God and your neighbor? Because if we love God, then we would not sin against him. If we love our neighbors as ourselves, we won't sin against our own bodies which belong to God and we will extend that love to our neighbor, since we would not do to them what we would not do to ourselves IF we loved God and ourselves and our neighbor.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 John [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]3:9[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.[/FONT]​

So I again say, sin (without repentance) is what sends one to hell.

If we acknowledge our individual sins (willful, deliberate acts), trespasses (unintentional and sometimes unknowing transgressions of the law) and sin nature (that which is in us through the blood of Adam), speak our confession of our sins to God, ask to be forgiven and cleansed, Jesus (our advocate) will go to the Father on our behalf and we will be cleansed. We can then be filled with the Holy Spirit which gives us the power of Jesus and with the HS and following those two commandments we can conceivably do what Jesus said: go and sin no more.

Since, through Jesus, we are redeemed from the curse and the law; in the end, the result should be that people will know us by our fruit as children of the Most High, and God will know we are His through our works (not the things we do but our "conversation" AKA attitude in what we do and how we do it through following the commandments Jesus referred to) which we obediently do through faithing.

My apologies in advance for any unintentional errors or if I missed anything. It is approaching 3am and I'm sleepy so I may have typos or have forgotten something.

["The ABCs of Faith." Faith is Action, based on Belief, and sustained by Confidence that God is going to do what He said. -credit: Dr. Gene Scott]

(I think this post was for me cause God showed me something as I was typing. *sigh* I need Jesus.)

 

[discobiscuits]

I think I'm following you.... It's just that I think that the premise behind your statements are better founded on Adam and Eve's fall in the Garden, not the establishment of the 10 Commandments.

The atonement rituals were established not because the Lord did not "expect" us to keep His commandments, but in order to position ourselves "rightfully" before Him. It's not a matter of expectation because we have free will. We can "freely choose" not to obey anything or anyone.

And the Lord knew He had to come and complete the fullness of work that the atonement rituals could not adequately fulfill.

IMO the establishment of the 10 commandments were because of Adam's fall in the garden (I only list Adam b/c it is written that though one man's disobedience sin came -Adam... and again written through one man's obedience -Jesus.... Additionally, Adam was instructed not to eat of that tree prior to Eve being created see Gen. 3:16-18 but Eve was aware of God's instructions). Man's wickedness was so great that God was grieved that he even created man and sent a flood. He destroyed Sodom an Gomorrah for the same reason - man's sins and wickedness. The tree that they ate from was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Knowing the Law (the 10 commandments) meant knowing sin which meant no flesh was justified. Paul said that the law itself is not sin but in the law is the knowledge of sin.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Romans 3:19-31[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty F14 before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; [/FONT]

God could no more "expect" than not expect man to not sin or to keep his commandments because sin is in man from birth. All have sinned and fallen short. Paul even gave that awesomely confusing soliloquy about the war inside between the flesh/mind and the spirit.

Mankind does have free will and we can choose to obey or not. Under the Law they had to have the atonement rituals, as was stated to get right before God, but that does not mean that the rituals were inadequate. They were a stop gap measure until the Messiah came. Now that He has come, we no longer need animals for blood sacrifices and priests to present the sacrifice to God in periodic rituals; but we do still need a blood sacrifice (Jesus shed his blood for us) and an advocate to bring it before God (Jesus ascended to deliver himself to God as an acceptable sacrifice which is why he said not to touch him b/c he had not ascended and had he been touched the sacrifice would have been tainted and unable to be accepted by God).

IMO if the rituals were inadequate, God would not have instructed the people to perform them.

Summary: I do not agree that the rituals were inadequate*. My opinion is that the commandments were created as a result of the sin in the world because of the fall of man in the garden.


Note:
If inadequate is being used in the sense of insufficient since the rituals had to be repeated vs. the one time sacrifice of Jesus then I would agree. However, if inadequate is being used in the sense of "not good enough" or unsatisfactory then that is where I disagree b/c God would not establish or accept something that he would find unsatisfactory.

 

[PaperClip]

IMO the establishment of the 10 commandments were because of Adam's fall in the garden (I only list Adam b/c it is written that though one man's disobedience sin came -Adam... and again written through one man's obedience -Jesus.... Additionally, Adam was instructed not to eat of that tree prior to Eve being created see Gen. 3:16-18 but Eve was aware of God's instructions). Man's wickedness was so great that God was grieved that he even created man and sent a flood. He destroyed Sodom an Gomorrah for the same reason - man's sins and wickedness. The tree that they ate from was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Knowing the Law (the 10 commandments) meant knowing sin which meant no flesh was justified. Paul said that the law itself is not sin but in the law is the knowledge of sin.



God could no more "expect" than not expect man to not sin or to keep his commandments because sin is in man from birth. All have sinned and fallen short. Paul even gave that awesomely confusing soliloquy about the war inside between the flesh/mind and the spirit.

Mankind does have free will and we can choose to obey or not. Under the Law they had to have the atonement rituals, as was stated to get right before God, but that does not mean that the rituals were inadequate. They were a stop gap measure until the Messiah came. Now that He has come, we no longer need animals for blood sacrifices and priests to present the sacrifice to God in periodic rituals; but we do still need a blood sacrifice (Jesus shed his blood for us) and an advocate to bring it before God (Jesus ascended to deliver himself to God as an acceptable sacrifice which is why he said not to touch him b/c he had not ascended and had he been touched the sacrifice would have been tainted and unable to be accepted by God).

IMO if the rituals were inadequate, God would not have instructed the people to perform them.

Summary: I do not agree that the rituals were inadequate*. My opinion is that the commandments were created as a result of the sin in the world because of the fall of man in the garden.


Note:
If inadequate is being used in the sense of insufficient since the rituals had to be repeated vs. the one time sacrifice of Jesus then I would agree. However, if inadequate is being used in the sense of "not good enough" or unsatisfactory then that is where I disagree b/c God would not establish or accept something that he would find unsatisfactory.

Good, robust conversation overall....

Per the bolded: I think both suggestions you describe can apply. Certainly the first part about the one-time all-sufficient sacrifice of Jesus Christ. And then with the second part, I wouldn't (necessarily) say "not good enough", but more like "unequal", like when you have an original document and you make a copy on a copy machine. The copy (e.g., the rituals, in this case) are only a SUBSTITUTE for the original atonement (JESUS CHRIST). The Lord God ESTABLISHED and ACCEPTED the earthly rituals out of His mercy and grace and because HE knew what he was going to do re. executing His ultimate plan of redemption: the Lord God Almighty putting on an earthsuit and coming to Planet Earth through a woman and being that PERFECT (one-time) SACRIFICE for us all.

 

[Luxlii]

The bible says blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin. Right?

 

[Dove56]

The bible says blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin. Right?

Right. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is tantamount to rejecting Christ. If you reject Christ then you reject the Holy Spirit that warns/convicts us of sin and leads us to Christ. After the Holy Spirit there will not be anyone to convict of us sin and point us to Christ.