What is a Sinner?

[divya]

So if Christians are no longer sinners when they accept Christ, then why did Paul refer to himself as the chief sinner?

1 Timothy 1:15 - This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

It is a present tense statement, not a statement referring to his past.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

Does anyone here think that it is possible not to ever sin again before we physically die?

If so, would it mean we are finally perfect like Christ?

If not, are we still considered alive in Christ?

I believe it is possible. I think that if we die in perfect grace, we go straight to heaven. If we die in mortal sin, we go to hell. If we die with venial sin, we burn off the effects of that venial sin in purgatory. That's my take. I'll choose straight to heaven for 200 Alex (but I need the daily graces to make it happen...monopoly money is not quite cutting it...I need greenbacks!)

 

[Crown]

So if Christians are no longer sinners when they accept Christ, then why did Paul refer to himself as the chief sinner?

1 Timothy 1:15 - This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

It is a present tense statement, not a statement referring to his past.

Time to meditate the Psalm 1 !

When one verse seems to contradict the others, it’s time to put this verse in the whole context in reading the entire chapter and it’s time to pray for revelation.

Please, do a search in the Bible (online) with the word sinner.

Paul also said :
Rom. 3.7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Gal. 2.15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,

In the Bible, sinner refers to someone who sins and does not fear GOD.

Pro. 23.17 Let not thine heart envy sinners: but be thou in the fear of the LORD all the day long.

Prov.11.31 Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner.

And David said -my sin-, -I have sinned-, not I am a sinner :
Ps. 32.5 I acknowledge my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.
[FONT=&quot]1Chr. 21.8 And David said unto God, I have sinned greatly, because I have done this thing: but now, I beseech thee, do away the iniquity of thy servant; for I have done very foolishly.

God bless your night!
[/FONT]

 

[ROZELIDA_80]

I don't want this to come off the wrong way. These are honest questions. I would appreciate honest answers ok? So, if we are all sinners still what were we saved from? What is the meaning of salvation? What is the meaning of redemption? Everyday several times a day (but esp before bed) I ask God for forgiveness of sins committed unintentionally and intentionally that day b/c I know I have done both over the course of the day but it is not ok with me to have done so. I ask him to continue the tranformation process and as I overcome certain things I thank him for the victories. If we are stuck as sinners do we have to get saved again or redeemed again? Wouldn't that make Jesus' sacrifice at the cross null and void instead of finished? Maybe I don't understand the question...

IMO we are saved from the consequences of sin, death.

According to the definition when sinning you are a sinner, just as if I were to teach I would be a teacher (maybe not a certified teacher, but a teacher according to the definition).

 

[JinaRicci]

It seems the confusion comes from the different definitions of 'sinner.' We all sin- Christian or not. When we ask forgiveness from our sins everyday- we are confessing to our sins, right? So what is the definition of someone who sins? How do you define someone who lies, cheats, or steals? A sometimes liar?

I think of being pardoned from our sins (which is a continual process) as a criminal who is pardoned from getting the death penalty. The wages of sin is death- that's our penalty. The criminal who is pardoned is still a criminal- but they've now been given the gift to live- the opportunity to do better!

In the same way- we who now have the gift of eternal life are now commissioned to do better- to walk in the newness of life. How would we expect a criminal pardoned from death to act? Like he is really sorry, like a changed person, grateful for the pardon (& spreading his good fortune). We on the other hand have a much greater gift- not only do we have a changed life here on earth- we are promised life eternal.

The pardon means so much more to the one desperately in need of it- the person guilty of sin-not the one who is righteous. None of us are righteous- so that means we need this pardon every single day. We walk differently because of our repentance, but we're not perfect.

We continue to need Jesus' cleansing blood-the gift of salvation just as those 'lost in sin' need to know of this perfect gift that is freely available to them to save them from their sins.

 

[Poohbear]

It seems the confusion comes from the different definitions of 'sinner.' We all sin- Christian or not. When we ask forgiveness from our sins everyday- we are confessing to our sins, right? So what is the definition of someone who sins? How do you define someone who lies, cheats, or steals? A sometimes liar?

I think of being pardoned from our sins (which is a continual process) as a criminal who is pardoned from getting the death penalty. The wages of sin is death- that's our penalty. The criminal who is pardoned is still a criminal- but they've now been given the gift to live- the opportunity to do better!

In the same way- we who now have the gift of eternal life are now commissioned to do better- to walk in the newness of life. How would we expect a criminal pardoned from death to act? Like he is really sorry, like a changed person, grateful for the pardon (& spreading his good fortune). We on the other hand have a much greater gift- not only do we have a changed life here on earth- we are promised life eternal.

The pardon means so much more to the one desperately in need of it- the person guilty of sin-not the one who is righteous. None of us are righteous- so that means we need this pardon every single day. We walk differently because of our repentance, but we're not perfect.

We continue to need Jesus' cleansing blood-the gift of salvation just as those 'lost in sin' need to know of this perfect gift that is freely available to them to save them from their sins.

Thank you for your response, JinaRicci. I agree.

 

[divya]

Time to meditate the Psalm 1 !

When one verse seems to contradict the others, it’s time to put this verse in the whole context in reading the entire chapter and it’s time to pray for revelation.

Please, do a search in the Bible (online) with the word sinner.

Paul also said :
Rom. 3.7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Gal. 2.15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,

In the Bible, sinner refers to someone who sins and does not fear GOD.

Pro. 23.17 Let not thine heart envy sinners: but be thou in the fear of the LORD all the day long.

Prov.11.31 Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner.

And David said -my sin-, -I have sinned-, not I am a sinner :
Ps. 32.5 I acknowledge my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.
[FONT=&quot]1Chr. 21.8 And David said unto God, I have sinned greatly, because I have done this thing: but now, I beseech thee, do away the iniquity of thy servant; for I have done very foolishly.

God bless your night!
[/FONT]

That just it. The verse isn't in contradiction any of these verses above at all. In fact, Romans 3:7 actually supports the verse in 1 Timothy, as does the entire of Romans 3 supports Paul's statement in 1 Timothy.

When we read 1 Timothy, we learn that because God truly is love, that we obtain mercy. Paul goes on to state that in him, "Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting."

Why would Jesus Christ need to show longsuffering, if we no longer sin? We are still sinners. Christ shows longsuffering towards us because as Christians, we strive for righteousness - not because we are not longer sinners. It is precisely because we strive to do right that He is loving enough to call us righteous.

The difference between the righteous and the sinner in the Scriptures is not that the righteous cannot/do not sin. The difference is that the righteous are those who truly strive for righteousness, and God mercifully recognizes that.

 

[divya]

IMO we are saved from the consequences of sin, death.

According to the definition when sinning you are a sinner, just as if I were to teach I would be a teacher (maybe not a certified teacher, but a teacher according to the definition).

Exactly! When one accepts Jesus Christ, it does not mean that they can never sin or rather, be a sinner. Every time we sin, we are sinners. Unless we cease to sin and have reached the point of being sinless, we cannot say that we are no longer sinners. Christ chooses to call us righteous out of His abounding love.

 

[divya]

It seems the confusion comes from the different definitions of 'sinner.' We all sin- Christian or not. When we ask forgiveness from our sins everyday- we are confessing to our sins, right? So what is the definition of someone who sins? How do you define someone who lies, cheats, or steals? A sometimes liar?

I think of being pardoned from our sins (which is a continual process) as a criminal who is pardoned from getting the death penalty. The wages of sin is death- that's our penalty. The criminal who is pardoned is still a criminal- but they've now been given the gift to live- the opportunity to do better!

In the same way- we who now have the gift of eternal life are now commissioned to do better- to walk in the newness of life. How would we expect a criminal pardoned from death to act? Like he is really sorry, like a changed person, grateful for the pardon (& spreading his good fortune). We on the other hand have a much greater gift- not only do we have a changed life here on earth- we are promised life eternal.

The pardon means so much more to the one desperately in need of it- the person guilty of sin-not the one who is righteous. None of us are righteous- so that means we need this pardon every single day. We walk differently because of our repentance, but we're not perfect.

We continue to need Jesus' cleansing blood-the gift of salvation just as those 'lost in sin' need to know of this perfect gift that is freely available to them to save them from their sins.

Beautifully put.

 

[Crown]

The difference between the righteous and the sinner in the Scriptures is not that the righteous cannot/do not sin.

Nobody said this! So, you agree that there is a difference in the Scriptures between righteous and sinner.

The difference is that the righteous are those who truly strive for righteousness, and God mercifully recognizes that.

I totally agree with you, you answer to the question and that's the point : It is what we are supposed to be, as Christians.

I would not call fireman, someone who helps someone else to escape out of a place on fire.
As I would not call pyromaniac, someone who lets the oven on and his house is on fire.

I would not call you sinner because you said that you are a Christian, so I know, even if you sin, you sincerely and truly strive for righteousness in Jesus-Christ and if so, in the eyes of God : you are righteous.

But what someone is calling himself/herself is up to him/her.

[FONT=&quot]In Jesus-Christ.[/FONT]

 

[Poohbear]

That just it. The verse isn't in contradiction any of these verses above at all. In fact, Romans 3:7 actually supports the verse in 1 Timothy, as does the entire of Romans 3 supports Paul's statement in 1 Timothy.

When we read 1 Timothy, we learn that because God truly is love, that we obtain mercy. Paul goes on to state that in him, "Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting."

Why would Jesus Christ need to show longsuffering, if we no longer sin? We are still sinners. Christ shows longsuffering towards us because as Christians, we strive for righteousness - not because we are not longer sinners. It is precisely because we strive to do right that He is loving enough to call us righteous.

The difference between the righteous and the sinner in the Scriptures is not that the righteous cannot/do not sin. The difference is that the righteous are those who truly strive for righteousness, and God mercifully recognizes that.

Thanks for saying this! The "righteous" still sin, but we are dead to sin because we have salvation in Christ. Having salvation is what makes us righteous. We are striving for righteousness and to be more Christ-like. This is what I thought after reading the Bible.

Romans 3:10 - "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

Galatians 3:11 - "Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.""

Hebrews 10:17 - "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more."

Hebrews 10:38 - "Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him."

 

[Poohbear]

Nobody said this! So, you agree that there is a difference in the Scriptures between righteous and sinner.

I totally agree with you, you answer to the question and that's the point : It is what we are supposed to be, as Christians.

I would not call fireman, someone who helps someone else to escape out of a place on fire.
As I would not call pyromaniac, someone who lets the oven on and his house is on fire.

I would not call you sinner because you said that you are a Christian, so I know, even if you sin, you sincerely and truly strive for righteousness in Jesus-Christ and if so, in the eyes of God : you are righteous.

But what someone is calling himself/herself is up to him/her.

[FONT=&quot]In Jesus-Christ.[/FONT]

That's a positive way of looking at it. Christians are righteous rather than sinners. Doesn't mean we are sinless... we're just striving for perfection.

 

[Laela]

Righteousness is a gift .. it's available to everyone but only those who believe the declaration of faith in Jesus actually become righteous. I believe I am righteous, therefore I am --and it is when I accepted Jesus.

Rom 3:22

We cannot strive to be righteous when we already are; but I do agree that the Righteous can sin.

What separates the Righteous from sinners is a repentant heart and the ability to not give in to temptation (choosing not to deliberately sin). But even when a Righteous person sins they still are Righteous because they're not bound to the guilt of sin.

I am a sinner saved by Grace but I won't abuse my Righteousness to sin.

Why would Jesus Christ need to show longsuffering, if we no longer sin? We are still sinners. Christ shows longsuffering towards us because as Christians, we strive for righteousness - not because we are not longer sinners. It is precisely because we strive to do right that He is loving enough to call us righteous.

The difference between the righteous and the sinner in the Scriptures is not that the righteous cannot/do not sin. The difference is that the righteous are those who truly strive for righteousness, and God mercifully recognizes that.

 

[Crown]

Righteousness is a gift .. it's available to everyone but only those who believe the declaration of faith in Jesus actually become righteous. I believe I am righteous, therefore I am --and it is when I accepted Jesus.

Rom 3:22

We cannot strive to be righteous when we already are; but I do agree that the Righteous can sin.

What separates the Righteous from sinners is a repentant heart and the ability to not give in to temptation (choosing not to deliberately sin). But even when a Righteous person sins they still are Righteous because they're not bound to the guilt of sin.

I am a sinner saved by Grace but I won't abuse my Righteousness to sin.

Why would Jesus Christ need to show longsuffering, if we no longer sin? We are still sinners. Christ shows longsuffering towards us because as Christians, we strive for righteousness - not because we are not longer sinners. It is precisely because we strive to do right that He is loving enough to call us righteous.

The difference between the righteous and the sinner in the Scriptures is not that the righteous cannot/do not sin. The difference is that the righteous are those who truly strive for righteousness, and God mercifully recognizes that.

Maybe, maybe it's just semantic, but this is not what divya said.
She said : we strive for righteousness (and it is true).
Laela said : we can not strive to be righteous, when we already are.

A Christian doesn't have righteousness by himself, not in the flesh. Jesus-Christ has righteousness and only by Him, we are righteous.

We don't strive to be righteous, we strive for righteousness. As Paul and John said :

Rom. 7.21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 7.22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 7.23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 7.24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 7.25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

1Tim. 6.12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

1John 5 : 16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.
18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself,[e] and the wicked one does not touch him.
19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

 

[Laela]

Crown... we're all saying the same thing. It's semantics, indeed.. thanks for pointing that out. I strive for clarity

 

[moonglowdiva]

To simply answer the question "What is a sinner? A sinner is you and me. All mankind sin and fall short of the Glory of God. Repentance is a daily thing that we all must do. If we repent God will surely forgive us.

 

[divya]

Righteousness is a gift .. it's available to everyone but only those who believe the declaration of faith in Jesus actually become righteous. I believe I am righteous, therefore I am --and it is when I accepted Jesus.

Rom 3:22

We cannot strive to be righteous when we already are; but I do agree that the Righteous can sin.

What separates the Righteous from sinners is a repentant heart and the ability to not give in to temptation (choosing not to deliberately sin). But even when a Righteous person sins they still are Righteous because they're not bound to the guilt of sin.

I am a sinner saved by Grace but I won't abuse my Righteousness to sin.

The Scriptures tell us to strive for, or rather, to seek righteousness. That God calls us righteous is due to His love and mercy but we must still seek after righteousness and other Godly qualities.

Matthew 6:33 - But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

Psalm 15:2 - He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.

Proverbs 11:18 - The wicked worketh a deceitful work: but to him that soweth righteousness shall be a sure reward.

Proverbs 21:21 - He that followeth after righteousness and mercy findeth life, righteousness, and honour.

2 Timothy 2:22 - Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Agree with the rest of your post!

 

[Poohbear]

If Christians are righteous but can still sin... are we considered "righteous sinners"?

Someone who is completely righteous is perfect and sinless...

Someone who is a flat out sinner is not righteous and sinful...

But a Christian is a combination of the two since we are alive in Christ and have a repentant remorseful heart and have God's mercy and forgiveness when we sin and fall short of His glory?

 

[Crown]

If Christians are righteous but can still sin... are we considered "righteous sinners"?

In the Bible, righteous and sinners are two opposite terms.
It's like life and death.
There is a choice : you are righteous or you are sinner.

Someone who is completely righteous is perfect and sinless...

Someone who is a flat out sinner is not righteous and sinful...

But a Christian is a combination of the two since we are alive in Christ and have a repentant remorseful heart and have God's mercy and forgiveness when we sin and fall short of His glory?

If I look just at me, I would just be a sinner.
But, I believe that I am in Jesus-Christ who has righteousness, then with repentance, even if I sin, I am righteous. If you believe that you are saved by grace, you can not be a sinner; even if you sin in your flesh, your spirit is living in Jesus-Christ and you are reaching at His righteousness. For me, saying that I am a sinner is rejecting Jesus-Christ (but as I said : for me). I think that I have no more to add.

 

[Laela]

Thank you....

[COLOR=Red[U]]If I look just at me, I would just be a sinner.[/U][/COLOR]
But, I believe that I am in Jesus-Christ who has righteousness, then with repentance, even if I sin, I am righteous. If you believe that you are saved by grace, you can not be a sinner; even if you sin in your flesh, your spirit is living in Jesus-Christ and you are reaching at His righteousness. For me, saying that I am a sinner is rejecting Jesus-Christ (but as I said : for me). I think that I have no more to add.

 

[Laela]

No.. someone who is Righteous is not perfect or sinless.

Someone who is completely righteous is perfect and sinless...

 

[Laela]

The scriptures below are supporting that the Righteous must continue to be obedient to God. But one of them, Prov 11:18, gives the clear distinction between the Righteous and a sinner.

The moment we accepted Jesus and declared through Faith that we are the Righteousness of God, we BECAME Righteous.

IOW, a sinner cannot/will not strive for righteousness. They must first become Righteous - through Jesus - to do so.

Again, we're saying the same thing.

The Scriptures tell us to strive for, or rather, to seek righteousness. That God calls us righteous is due to His love and mercy but we must still seek after righteousness and other Godly qualities.

Matthew 6:33 - But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

Psalm 15:2 - He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.

Proverbs 11:18 - The wicked worketh a deceitful work: but to him that soweth righteousness shall be a sure reward.

Proverbs 21:21 - He that followeth after righteousness and mercy findeth life, righteousness, and honour.

2 Timothy 2:22 - Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Agree with the rest of your post!

 

[Poohbear]

If I look just at me, I would just be a sinner.
But, I believe that I am in Jesus-Christ who has righteousness, then with repentance, even if I sin, I am righteous. If you believe that you are saved by grace, you can not be a sinner; even if you sin in your flesh, your spirit is living in Jesus-Christ and you are reaching at His righteousness. For me, saying that I am a sinner is rejecting Jesus-Christ (but as I said : for me). I think that I have no more to add.

Thank you for making that distinction.

Edited to add: Thanks for your posts too, Laela.