***** vs. Shrew - what's crossing the line?

[Blu217]

I was just reading the thread about the "Why Men Love B*tches" and the number of responses from women who said this worked for them got me wondering:

Men may like a little drama and a little ***** in their lady, but at what point do you think the line is being crossed between keeping them sprung and driving them off? I've seen some demanding, screechy, impossible women whose men couldn't get away fast enough.

Obviously I don't have much ***** in me; I'm also very single and guilty of nice girl/no games syndrome. I'm working on being more assertive in my life anyway and figure this will make a great read.

So ladies for whom being a ***** has worked wonders for your relationships, can you give some specifics of what you did and how he reacted?

And what behavior is acceptable? What's crossing the line? What behaviors are liable to drive him away? What point passes keeping him guessing and is just making him miserable?

 

[FlowerHair]

I used to be a nice girl too

For most of us nice girls, we really can't go too far when learning to become more assertive...don't worry!

I've had so much success since I turned into a "bi*ch"
It's all about getting to him, making him ticked off once in a while...

I really suggest reading the book and practising on every man you meet.
Let us know how it goes!

Just think about all the women you know with successful relationships...most of them are bitc*y and not so nice erplexed Used to make me wonder why I was single, since I was so sweet and kind...

 

[Divine Inspiration]

Hmmm...my opinion is an unpopular one, but I don't believe a woman needs to be a ***** or anyone other than who she is to attract and keep the right man in her life. Granted, "b*tchy" behavior is subjective, but in general, I think it's entirely possible for nice girls to finish first. I don't want to be with a man who likes a woman who is dismissive/dramatic/game-loving.

I read The Technique of the Love Affair instead of reading WMLB because I simply am not and do not want to be a *****. I don't want to be mean or play games nor do I need to keep up drama to keep a man. That is not the kind of love I want to attract in my life so I opted to leave that alone. If I start out as *****, I have to keep it up to maintain the standard, and I have no desire to do that because I don't want a marriage based on me being a *****. Dr. Laura's book, The Proper Care & Feeding of Husbands, is wonderful at exploring why this "I am *****, hear me roar" approach does not work. No man wants to play reindeer games for the rest of his life. It gets old after a while, and I would imagine that it's difficult to maintain an environment of love, respect, and emotional safety when the woman is constantly putting herself and her needs ahead of his and the family's.

Anyway, TTOLA was great! It offered wonderful tips about how to maintain your position as a lady and be courted as such. It showed how a woman can maintain her power in the courting phase without forfeiting her feminine sensibilities.

So, Blu, I think you're on to something because while I do know a handful of not-so-nice women in relationships, their men are NOT happy...and sometimes neither are they. The happily married/coupled women I know are those who are benevolent with their woman power. As women, we have a tremendous amount of power in our dealings with men, and I believe that if we would learn how to do a better of job of owning and loving ourselves as human beings and understanding the gifts we've been given, there would be no need to be a ***** because men would be eating out of our palms as we are. There's a way to command respect and to maintain standards without manipulating a man or being a *****.

That's my $15.89...

 

[FlowerHair]

Well I have read both books and they are very similar
In fact, I think that Sherry Argov has "borrowed" a lot from The technique of the love affair. I'm 100% sure she has read it and just created a modern spin on that book.

And the term Bit*ch is not meant to take literally...I'm far from it! (As I'm sure you know from my posts...)

It's supposed to be eyecatching in order to sell books, she gives an explanation of what a bitc*hy woman is in her book...

If you're anything like me - I was single for 10 years - and you know you're "too nice" to anyone else but yourself, there is no way you can become too bit*chy...

 

[lexi08]

Hmmm...my opinion is an unpopular one, but I don't believe a woman needs to be a ***** or anyone other than who she is to attract and keep the right man in her life. Granted, "b*tchy" behavior is subjective, but in general, I think it's entirely possible for nice girls to finish first. I don't want to be with a man who likes a woman who is dismissive/dramatic/game-loving.

I read The Technique of the Love Affair instead of reading WMLB because I simply am not and do not want to be a *****. I don't want to be mean or play games nor do I need to keep up drama to keep a man. That is not the kind of love I want to attract in my life so I opted to leave that alone. If I start out as *****, I have to keep it up to maintain the standard, and I have no desire to do that because I don't want a marriage based on me being a *****. Dr. Laura's book, The Proper Care & Feeding of Husbands, is wonderful at exploring why this "I am *****, hear me roar" approach does not work. No man wants to play reindeer games for the rest of his life. It gets old after a while, and I would imagine that it's difficult to maintain an environment of love, respect, and emotional safety when the woman is constantly putting herself and her needs ahead of his and the family's.

Anyway, TTOLA was great! It offered wonderful tips about how to maintain your position as a lady and be courted as such. It showed how a woman can maintain her power in the courting phase without forfeiting her feminine sensibilities.

So, Blu, I think you're on to something because while I do know a handful of not-so-nice women in relationships, their men are NOT happy...and sometimes neither are they. The happily married/coupled women I know are those who are benevolent with their woman power. As women, we have a tremendous amount of power in our dealings with men, and I believe that if we would learn how to do a better of job of owning and loving ourselves as human beings and understanding the gifts we've been given, there would be no need to be a ***** because men would be eating out of our palms as we are. There's a way to command respect and to maintain standards without manipulating a man or being a *****.

That's my $15.89...

I agree with your post. Being a bi*** in not me These type of women may have relationship, but in my experience they are not happy and the relationships are full of problems. I have read Technique of a Love Affair and I will check out the Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands.

 

[FlowerHair]

I take it none of you have actually read the book?

Read it, you might just change your minds...It's not about being bit*chy or rude, it's about being assertive and realize your position of power. It's an entertaining book that will have you laughing and smiling... And it's great if you know you've been a doormat in previous relationships.

And like I said, it's extremely similar to the Technique of the Love Affair, which I also recommend warmly even if it's a tad bit old.

Anything is better than The Rules!

 

[Divine Inspiration]

Well I have read both books and they are very similar
In fact, I think that Sherry Argov has "borrowed" a lot from The technique of the love affair. I'm 100% sure she has read it and just created a modern spin on that book.

And the term Bit*ch is not meant to take literally...I'm far from it! (As I'm sure you know from my posts...)

It's supposed to be eyecatching in order to sell books, she gives an explanation of what a bitc*hy woman is in her book...

If you're anything like me - I was single for 10 years - and you know you're "too nice" to anyone else but yourself, there is no way you can become too bit*chy...

This is interesting. I've never been called too nice nor do I think I've ever been too nice. My issue, at one point, was boundaries, but even that did not result in any extensive, involuntary periods of singlehood. TTOLA really put those things into perspective as did Secrets of An Irresistible Woman, and now I'm golden.

I'm backlogged on books through about 2010 so I doubt I'll be making room for this one, but I do appreciate your review.

 

[Divine Inspiration]

I agree with your post. Being a bi*** in not me These type of women may have relationship, but in my experience they are not happy and the relationships are full of problems. I have read Technique of a Love Affair and I will check out the Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands.

I think you'll really appreciate The Proper Care & Feeding of Husbands. There's also The Proper Care & Feeding of Marriage which is really good as well. Ten Stupid Things Women Do To Mess Up Their Lives is another GREAT one...it's um, RAW, but it's real, and I've yet to meet a woman who couldn't gain something from that book. Dr. Laura really spells out some of the mistakes we all make in plain English and offers up practical ways to handle the situations that we find ourselves in. I periodically read bits and pieces of it for good measure.

 

[lexi08]

I think you'll really appreciate The Proper Care & Feeding of Husbands. There's also The Proper Care & Feeding of Marriage which is really good as well. Ten Stupid Things Women Do To Mess Up Their Lives is another GREAT one...it's um, RAW, but it's real, and I've yet to meet a woman who couldn't gain something from that book. Dr. Laura really spells out some of the mistakes we all make in plain English and offers up practical ways to handle the situations that we find ourselves in. I periodically read bits and pieces of it for good measure.

Thanks for the recommendations.

 

[caribeandiva]

I take it none of you have actually read the book?

Read it, you might just change your minds...It's not about being bit*chy or rude, it's about being assertive and realize your position of power. It's an entertaining book that will have you laughing and smiling... And it's great if you know you've been a doormat in previous relationships.

And like I said, it's extremely similar to the Technique of the Love Affair, which I also recommend warmly even if it's a tad bit old.

Anything is better than The Rules!

I agree with everything u said. Read the book first and then say whether you agree with her advice or not.

 

[Blu217]

Well I have read both books and they are very similar
In fact, I think that Sherry Argov has "borrowed" a lot from The technique of the love affair. I'm 100% sure she has read it and just created a modern spin on that book.

And the term Bit*ch is not meant to take literally...I'm far from it! (As I'm sure you know from my posts...)

It's supposed to be eyecatching in order to sell books, she gives an explanation of what a bitc*hy woman is in her book...

If you're anything like me - I was single for 10 years - and you know you're "too nice" to anyone else but yourself, there is no way you can become too bit*chy...

Flowerhair, I'm rockin 6+ years of singlehood myself at the moment! Mostly by choice and I am quite content, but I do have and always have had difficulty meeting quality men. I lost a lot of losers tho, which wasn't much of a loss at all . I like being single, but I could stand to learn a thing or two about developing and maintaining healthy longterm relationships. If I met Mr. Fabu tomorrow, I'd be thrilled.

I absolutely agree with everyone who's said it's a lot of work trying to be a ***** if it doesn't come naturally. I'm too nice (read: forgiving) in general, but if I can get a feel for when and where to be assertive in my relationships--without being overbearingly so--it would be real progress.

Thanks for these suggestions, everyone; I'm gonna check out the books that have been suggested! I'm glad to hear from women who've found different approaches to this "*****" concept--or other ways altogether--to build and sustain lasting relationships.

 

[Divine Inspiration]

Flowerhair, I'm rockin 6+ years of singlehood myself at the moment! Mostly by choice and I am quite content, but I do have and always have had difficulty meeting quality men. I lost a lot of losers tho, which wasn't much of a loss at all . I like being single, but I could stand to learn a thing or two about developing and maintaining healthy longterm relationships. If I met Mr. Fabu tomorrow, I'd be thrilled.

I absolutely agree with everyone who's said it's a lot of work trying to be a ***** if it doesn't come naturally. I'm too nice (read: forgiving) in general, but if I can get a feel for when and where to be assertive in my relationships--without being overbearingly so--it would be real progress.

Thanks for these suggestions, everyone; I'm gonna check out the books that have been suggested! I'm glad to hear from women who've found different approaches to this "*****" concept--or other ways altogether--to build and sustain lasting relationships.

Also, read Safe People. VERY good for learning when and how to set boundaries...how to kick the toxic people to the curb and maintain your dignity and how to communicate love and appreciation to the safe people in your life. Ten Stupid Things would probably also be good if you've found that you've been too forgiving. Dr. Laura does not play that. She is explicit with intolerance of games, mess, okey doke, and general bad behavior. No excuses.

 

[FlowerHair]

This is interesting. I've never been called too nice nor do I think I've ever been too nice. My issue, at one point, was boundaries, but even that did not result in any extensive, involuntary periods of singlehood. TTOLA really put those things into perspective as did Secrets of An Irresistible Woman, and now I'm golden.

I'm backlogged on books through about 2010 so I doubt I'll be making room for this one, but I do appreciate your review.

That book sounds really interesting...
I know about having a lot of books on the to-read-list
It's wonderful that you now feel golden...I do too

 

[FlowerHair]

Flowerhair, I'm rockin 6+ years of singlehood myself at the moment! Mostly by choice and I am quite content, but I do have and always have had difficulty meeting quality men. I lost a lot of losers tho, which wasn't much of a loss at all . I like being single, but I could stand to learn a thing or two about developing and maintaining healthy longterm relationships. If I met Mr. Fabu tomorrow, I'd be thrilled.

I absolutely agree with everyone who's said it's a lot of work trying to be a ***** if it doesn't come naturally. I'm too nice (read: forgiving) in general, but if I can get a feel for when and where to be assertive in my relationships--without being overbearingly so--it would be real progress.

Thanks for these suggestions, everyone; I'm gonna check out the books that have been suggested! I'm glad to hear from women who've found different approaches to this "*****" concept--or other ways altogether--to build and sustain lasting relationships.

I didn't really suffer through my single years, but I felt as if I had learnt all there was to learn at that stage...all about being single. I felt as if I needed a relationship to take my personal growth forward. The losers are no loss at all

A quality man and a quality relationship can really be a catalyst for personal growth - it has been for me. I'm so grateful that I now feel confident that I can maintain a great relationship with lots of laughter, joy and love!

I wish the same for you and everyone else, if that is what you want

 

[Divine Inspiration]

That book sounds really interesting...
I know about having a lot of books on the to-read-list
It's wonderful that you now feel golden...I do too

Yeah, I enjoyed it because the focus was more on the woman developing herself and reinventing herself where her self-image is concerned. It inspired me to really shift the focus to ME and figure out what I wanted for me and what would be most fulfilling to me. I enjoyed it.

Yeah, if IIRC, you're quite the reader like me so I'm sure you've got a backlog too.

Oh, I know I keep making suggestions, but Blu, and nikki, and anybody else, Forgive for Good by Dr. Fred Luskin is an EXCELLENT book. This book was SOOOO good for helping me release resentment and buried anger at my ex. I was really able to let go, re-write the story of what happened, and work on getting the best revenge ever: A life well-lived!

 

[frizzy]

I haven't read any of thes books, but I would bet money that the basic concept of them is that bi***y women are not doormats that roll over to the mans every whim and desire. These women have their own life and will sometimes "allow" a man to enjoy her company. She will quickly decline an invitation from a gentleman when it doesn't suit her schedule or interests, instead of rearranging her life to accomdate his. She knows the value of saying NO to a man to keep him on his toes.
I will stop now so as not to look like a fool if I am wrong about the book.

My line used to be "treat a man like **** and he will love you."

 

[Theo]

I haven't read any of thes books, but I would bet money that the basic concept of them is that bi***y women are not doormats that roll over to the mans every whim and desire. These women have their own life and will sometimes "allow" a man to enjoy her company. She will quickly decline an invitation from a gentleman when it doesn't suit her schedule or interests, instead of rearranging her life to accomdate his. She knows the value of saying NO to a man to keep him on his toes.
I will stop now so as not to look like a fool if I am wrong about the book.

My line used to be "treat a man like **** and he will love you."

Nope... I think you pretty much got the concept.

 

[frizzy]

Nope... I think you pretty much got the concept.

Woooo, thanks girlie!

 

[Maynard]

Well I have never been "nice"

I have never been without a man either, so I guess men DO like biotches.

::Shrug::

I look at it like this, Men are hunters, pursuers, etc. If you doing satisfy that inner beast they have within, they will find a way to satisfy...

I dont know, I'm just jabbering...

 

[frizzy]

Yea, it's the thrill of the chase kinda thing. You gotta keep a man thinking and wondering, until he's to old and lazy to want to hunt anymore. j/k

ETA--To me, a shrew in this sense, is equivelant to being a nag. You can't use nagging as a way to an end, that will send him running to find him a beyotch.

 

[caribeandiva]

Yea, it's the thrill of the chase kinda thing. You gotta keep a man thinking and wondering, until he's to old and lazy to want to hunt anymore. j/k

ETA--To me, a shrew in this sense, is equivelant to being a nag. You can't use nagging as a way to an end, that will send him running to find him a beyotch.

I agree with everything you said.

 

[tocktick]

I take it none of you have actually read the book?

i was thinking that. i agree what your first paragraph, although i've cropped it. the book wasn't about literally being a bytch; more so not being the nice girl aka the doormat! it was about knowing your worth, not jumping through hoops to get with a man and actually not falling for any games a man tried to spin on you.

show him that he doesn't define your life, you can hold your own without him (in a subtle way, not a blatant one) and that you're a woman who men should naturally respect. imo, when you are too nice and a man has you wrapped around his finger, he will take your for granted and/or get bored and move on. you'll have invested so much time in him and become so attached that you'll be left thinking "wtf?" and heartbroken. after all, "you were so good to him, how could he do you like that?" etc etc erplexed.

be assertive, confident and don't put him on a pedestal that would make him think he can mess with you. imo, he's more likely to know you're the prize...you give off the impression that you're not clinging onto him and can move on if he's not acting right.

you can still be a nice woman but you need not be the doormat (that so many people typically think the "nice girl" is). know your standards, make sure he knows them and is on that level and bounce if he's not.

 

[caribeandiva]

i was thinking that. i agree what your first paragraph, although i've cropped it. the book wasn't about literally being a bytch; more so not being the nice girl aka the doormat! it was about knowing your worth, not jumping through hoops to get with a man and actually not falling for any games a man tried to spin on you.

show him that he doesn't define your life, you can hold your own without him (in a subtle way, not a blatant one) and that you're a woman who men should naturally respect. imo, when you are too nice and a man has you wrapped around his finger, he will take your for granted and/or get bored and move on. you'll have invested so much time in him and become so attached that you'll be left thinking "wtf?" and heartbroken. after all, "you were so good to him, how could he do you like that?" etc etc erplexed.

be assertive, confident and don't put him on a pedestal that would make him think he can mess with you. imo, he's more likely to know you're the prize...you give off the impression that you're not clinging onto him and can move on if he's not acting right.

you can still be a nice woman but you need not be the doormat (that so many people typically think the "nice girl" is). know your standards, make sure he knows them and is on that level and bounce if he's not.

Great post!

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

Well I have never been "nice"

I have never been without a man either, so I guess men DO like biotches.

::Shrug::

I look at it like this, Men are hunters, pursuers, etc. If you doing satisfy that inner beast they have within, they will find a way to satisfy...

I dont know, I'm just jabbering...

Okay, I think I need to know the correct definition of being "nice" or moreso rather what people mean when they say that you're being "too nice" because I think I already know the definition of a *****.

But what about the women who are not quite a *****, but who are still well-mannered, say please and thank you, etc. Are these women looked at as being "too nice"? I mean, just what do people think of when they say to themselves "mmm....she's too nice."

What about a woman in her dealings with a guy makes a guy think: "she's desperate", "she's too nice", she'll always be around", "I can play her", etc.??

I'm just curious, because although I'm not what I would call a *****, I can be pretty opinionated at times, and I like to banter with guys in a playful way (which they seem to love oddly enough! ). In fact, sometimes I can be downright cold and mean so I find myself toning that side of myself down around people who I'm not close to. But I don't know if I would call myself a ***** per se, because I'm still very nice in general to people. I've had a good upbringing, so I believe in treating most people with respect and kindness. So, I'm just wondering what things would make a guy say: "She's too nice".

Any examples?? A girls' trying to learn the tricks of the trade!

 

[MissScarlett]

I take it none of you have actually read the book?

Read it, you might just change your minds...It's not about being bit*chy or rude, it's about being assertive and realize your position of power. It's an entertaining book that will have you laughing and smiling... And it's great if you know you've been a doormat in previous relationships.

And like I said, it's extremely similar to the Technique of the Love Affair, which I also recommend warmly even if it's a tad bit old.

Anything is better than The Rules!

Thanks you saved me some key strokes.

Its not at all about being a whiney spoiled entitled b**** making a man jump through hoops, barking orders and making demands on him. Its not about meeting a man on friday and demanding him to buy you a car he next week. Its about setting a level of standards and making men come up to them, if they don't, then don't deal with them.

Don't make excuses for them for their shortcomings and don't say "oh he just needs some 'help'" Don't accept their litle lies and games and 'hang in there' for the sake of being in a relationship; they will know your standards are low, you're weak and continue to low-ball you and your expectations.

I've always been this way, I see now they're calling it *****y, but really you can be a sweet person without being the passive, accepting person in a relationship

 

[MissScarlett]

Okay, I think I need to know the correct definition of being "nice" or moreso rather what people mean when they say that you're being "too nice" because I think I already know the definition of a *****.

But what about the women who are not quite a *****, but who are still well-mannered, say please and thank you, etc. Are these women looked at as being "too nice"? I mean, just what do people think of when they say to themselves "mmm....she's too nice."

What about a woman in her dealings with a guy makes a guy think: "she's desperate", "she's too nice", she'll always be around", "I can play her", etc.??

I'm just curious, because although I'm not what I would call a *****, I can be pretty opinionated at times, and I like to banter with guys in a playful way (which they seem to love oddly enough! ). In fact, sometimes I can be downright cold and mean so I find myself toning that side of myself down around people who I'm not close to. But I don't know if I would call myself a ***** per se, because I'm still very nice in general to people. I've had a good upbringing, so I believe in treating most people with respect and kindness. So, I'm just wondering what things would make a guy say: "She's too nice".

Any examples?? A girls' trying to learn the tricks of the trade!

Being polite and well-mannered are completely different from being unassertive and a doormat.

Dating a man for 10 years while waiting and hoping he'll propose is being a doormat or sitting around excusing a guy for NOT doing the things that he said he would, is being un-assertive.

Not saying please and thank you is just being rude, not *****y, just rude

 

[cocoberry10]

I used to be a nice girl too

For most of us nice girls, we really can't go too far when learning to become more assertive...don't worry!

I've had so much success since I turned into a "bi*ch"
It's all about getting to him, making him ticked off once in a while...

I really suggest reading the book and practising on every man you meet.
Let us know how it goes!

Just think about all the women you know with successful relationships...most of them are bitc*y and not so nice erplexed Used to make me wonder why I was single, since I was so sweet and kind...

I too was the "nice girl." Truthfully, the book isn't really about being a *****. It's about knowing your worth as a human being and demanding respect because of it. She doesn't even really teach you to play "games," she teaches you to know that you are worth the best a man has to offer. And this is a lesson most women need to learn. Especially the "nice" girl!