Top 2 reasons Black Men fall off....

[s_terry]

Reason 2: No father figures in the homes
Reason 1:Lack of resources in the home!

Think about it, often young black men turn to street living because there is a want in the home. Food, light, a car, clothes. Men of other races often have these things provided for them. They don't have to worry about everyone eating or the lights being cut off, or having a ride to take that pretty girl on a date.

Often, for other's, the neccesities and luxuries allow them to have the time and freedom to worry about things such as how to continue the legacy. Planning to reap later rather than taking care of the hunger for now. They have time to build. Some black men don't have that time if they are trying to survive. As persons who are bombarded with "having", your worth as a human being tied into "having", when you don't have at a young age then I would think it would follow that you would want to find ways to get and get it now!

They are living in the moment. Lack to discipline to strive for an outcome that just might come much later. Are we somehow allowing the "having", the "things", the luxurys to outweight the outcome of our choices? Are we as a people more material due to lack?

What do you ladies think?

 

[WhipEffectz1]

We debate about black men more than they debate about us. I say we start looking more into understanding the souls of black women so that we're able understand everything else!

 

[delp]

Reason 2: No father figures in the homes
Reason 1:Lack of resources in the home!

Think about it, often young black men turn to street living because there is a want in the home. Food, light, a car, clothes. Men of other races often have these things provided for them. They don't have to worry about everyone eating or the lights being cut off, or having a ride to take that pretty girl on a date.

Often, for other's, the neccesities and luxuries allow them to have the time and freedom to worry about things such as how to continue the legacy. Planning to reap later rather than taking care of the hunger for now. They have time to build. Some black men don't have that time if they are trying to survive. As persons who are bombarded with "having", your worth as a human being tied into "having", when you don't have at a young age then I would think it would follow that you would want to find ways to get and get it now!

They are living in the moment. Lack to discipline to strive for an outcome that just might come much later. Are we somehow allowing the "having", the "things", the luxurys to outweight the outcome of our choices? Are we as a people more material due to lack?

What do you ladies think?

Yes but gender doesn't matter. When people are deprived they become more focused on the thing that don't have. "You can't take the person out of the ghetto" quote implies that. A girl/boy who was forced to live with strict spiritual parents goes buck wild when they leave home b/c they followed someone else's rule and had no control over their own bodies (pk kids). People who don't have money when they first get money they become consumers instead of investors. They try to buy everything they were deprived of or fulfill thier wants. (Rappers/....) In fact the biggest snobs are first generation wealthy people. People who grew up with money are sometimes the most compassionate. My dad grew up in rural south georgia (the country). He he prides himself on what he has (a boat, car, three story home, ...). He lacks compassion for others. My friend who grew up with money feels comfortable in any environment and will eat at anyone's table. He never met a stranger. People would never guess that he is worth millions by where he chooses to live and how he dress. My dad dress like a million but isn't one. Kyle (my wealthy friend) dresses like trash but is worth millions. My friend always said if you want to marry a millionaire look at what he has on and drives. P.S. My dad drives a Mercedes and Kyle drives a toyota. I think I forgot the question. I am rambling..

 

[Hidden_Angel]

Yes but gender doesn't mater. When people are deprived they become more focused on the thing that don't have. "You can't take the person out of the ghetto" quote implies that. A girl/boy who was forced to live with strict spiritual parents goes buck wild when they leave home b/c they followed someone else's rule and had no control over their own bodies (pk kids). People who don't have money when they first get money they become consumers instead of investors. They try to buy everything they were deprived of or fulfill thier wants. (Rappers/....) In fact the biggest snobs are first generation wealthy people. People who grew up with money are sometimes the most compassionate. My dad grew up in rural south georgia (the country). He he prides himself on what he has (a boat, car, three story home, ...). He lacks compassion for others. My friend who grew up with money feels comfortable in any environment and will eat at anyone's table. He never met a stranger. People would never guess that he is worth millions by were he chooses to live and how he dress. My dad dress like a million but isn't one. Kyle (my wealthy friend) dresses like a trash but is worth millions. My friend always said if you want to marry a millionaire look at what he has on and drives. P.S. My dad drives a Mercedes and Kyles drives a toyota. I think I forgot the question. I am rambling..

Thats true and your not rambling! Many rich or wealthy (old familes who grew up with money) were taught not to draw attention to themselves.

 

[Twisties]

I think it is materialism. At this point in our history, we see where it leads us, especially our men.

A minister once said the path to success is easy if we follow it, but our desires for stuff (name brand expensive stuff), leads to the downfall of many. This was his advice to black men:

1. Graduate from highschool (at least you can be in the game)
2. Don't sell drugs or hang out with those who do. (end is death or jail)
3. Don't get someone pregnant outside of marriage (child support, financial instability)
4. Get a job and stick with it, if not going to college. (success and start saving money)

These things are not impossible and I agree them. But young men aren't following the advice in droves....and results are evident.

Also, we do worry about men too much like whipeffectz said. They are not worrying about us like this and praying and fasting and all of that. They simply are not and it speaks volumes for us as women.

 

[delp]

I think it is materialism. At this point in our history, we see where it leads us, especially our men.

A minister once said the path to success is easy if we follow it, but our desires for stuff (name brand expensive stuff), leads to the downfall of many. This was his advice to black men:

1. Graduate from highschool (at least you can be in the game)
2. Don't sell drugs or hang out with those who do. (end is death or jail)
3. Don't get someone pregnant outside of marriage (child support, financial instability)
4. Get a job and stick with it, if not going to college. (success and start saving money)

These things are not impossible and I agree them. But young men aren't following the advice in droves....and results are evident.

Also, we do worry about men too much like whipeffectz said. They are not worrying about us like this and praying and fasting and all of that. They simply are not and it speaks volumes for us as women.

Please elaborate. I do pray for our race and men as a whole, as well as my family members. I really don't put the blame on women. We can pray to the sun come down but it really is going to take men helping other men and counseling for these men who are going to jails coming out confused.

 

[seraphinelle]

I still stand by my recent thoughts.

We care about what the men are doing too much.

And I truly think, that's what keeps some of us back.

We focus on the negatives way too much, when there are black men out there that are getting it together.

 

[delp]

I still stand by my recent thoughts.

We care about what the men are doing too much.

And I truly think, that's what keeps some of us back.

We focus on the negatives way too much, when there are black men out there that are getting it together.

That might be true but when you go to all white college and the number of african black males out number the number of african american black males you began to wonder if they are out there trying to get it together. I think people are just venting. On a typical day, I could care less. I very rarely come in contact with african american males unless he is the janitor or UPS man so I usually don't give them any thought. I am much more concern about images of african american females and their self esteem issues. Their plight is much more relevant.

 

[Twisties]

Please elaborate. I do pray for our race and men as a whole, as well as my family members. I really don't put the blame on women. We can pray to the sun come down but it really is going to take men helping other men and counseling for these men who are going to jails coming out confused.

You are right that men are going to have to help each other to get the solutions and results they need.

What I meant was women spend a lot of time fasting and praying for black men. I am a PK kid okay, and lot of the things I have seen growing up in church were focused on getting the men!! get the men in the church and not just at my dad's church. I would see this in most churches. Get them in leadership. So if the church was 80 percent female, and 20 percent men --the men led everything and when a man got "saved" people would shout more than when women got saved.

We (myself included) would fast and pray about men (prison, struggles, jobs and other issues). BUT as I got older I observed that the men did not fast and pray about the things affecting women (no husbands and single parenting etc). I hope this makes sense. I am not against prayer or anything like that. But my observation is that women put A LOT more into it then they do for us. I wasn't speaking against prayer because I belive in it. I belive after the prayer you have do something--faith without works is dead. I am going to get of topic now, but I will stop here. I hope this clears up what I meant.

 

[PaperClip]

I think it is materialism. At this point in our history, we see where it leads us, especially our men.

A minister once said the path to success is easy if we follow it, but our desires for stuff (name brand expensive stuff), leads to the downfall of many. This was his advice to black men:

1. Graduate from highschool (at least you can be in the game)
2. Don't sell drugs or hang out with those who do. (end is death or jail)
3. Don't get someone pregnant outside of marriage (child support, financial instability)
4. Get a job and stick with it, if not going to college. (success and start saving money)

These things are not impossible and I agree them. But young men aren't following the advice in droves....and results are evident.

Also, we do worry about men too much like whipeffectz said. They are not worrying about us like this and praying and fasting and all of that. They simply are not and it speaks volumes for us as women.

Advice from the minister is well noted.

And I don't think the Black community is overconcerned (I'm using the word "concern" instead of worries) about Black men too much. I think the present state of affairs says that our "worry/concern" is misguided. We worry about the wrong things.

We overworry about saving their feelings.
We overworry about covering them when they do wrong.
We overworry about making them like us.

I do believe that there are some Black men on the planet who ARE concerned about Black women.

 

[seraphinelle]

That might be true but when you go to all white college and the number of african black males out number the number of african american black males you began to wonder if they are out there trying to get it together. I think people are just venting. On a typical day, I could care less. I very rarely come in contact with african american males unless he is the janitor or UPS man so I usually don't give them any thought. I am much more concern about images of african american females and their self esteem issues. Their plight is much more relevant.

As am I.

I don't see that many non-african black males. I use to be concerned, but now, sorry to say, I couldn't care less. I have so much things that I need to focus on, and make sure that I do well, where I can't worry about another group of people.

I don't know that many black males in university, but I believe they're out there, or at least I like to think they're out there.

My father is a dean at a college, and he's just so disappointed, with the number of black males there.

But all that he can do, is make sure that my brother is one of those that go to university.

And all WE can do right now, is focus on this current generation, and not the generation that has been lost.

 

[LadyPaniolo]

We focus on the negatives way too much, when there are black men out there that are getting it together.

In reference to the bolded, I just have to ask, don't you live in the UK?

The situation of black men in America and that of black men across the pond cannot be compared. My understanding is that in the UK there is a sizable black middle class, as evidenced by the fact that everywhere you look you see middle class white families welcoming intermarriage with black folks.

We also have a black middle class here, but that middle class is small and shrinking.

 

[seraphinelle]

In reference to the bolded, I just have to ask, don't you live in the UK?

The situation of black men in America and that of black men across the pond cannot be compared. My understanding is that in the UK there is a sizable black middle class, as evidenced by the fact that everywhere you look you see middle class white families welcoming intermarriage with black folks.

We also have a black middle class here, but that middle class is small and shrinking.

The issues that are reported with black people are the same anywhere in the western world.

Googling any news article will indicate that.

 

[Bunny77]

In reference to the bolded, I just have to ask, don't you live in the UK?

The situation of black men in America and that of black men across the pond cannot be compared. My understanding is that in the UK there is a sizable black middle class, as evidenced by the fact that everywhere you look you see middle class white families welcoming intermarriage with black folks.

We also have a black middle class here, but that middle class is small and shrinking.

Actually, I think the USA has a much larger and much stronger black middle class than the UK does. Black men in the USA SHOULD actually be doing better than BM in the UK because the class system in the USA is much less rigid than that in the UK (for all races).

And from what I've heard, things aren't all that great for black men in the UK... they're better off in the US.

 

[seraphinelle]

Actually, I think the USA has a much larger and much stronger black middle class than the UK does. Black men in the USA SHOULD actually be doing better than BM in the UK because the class system in the USA is much less rigid than that in the UK (for all races).

And from what I've heard, things aren't all that great for black men in the UK... they're better off in the US.

Yes that is true.

Many black families are migrating to North America, like nobody's business.

Heck, we were one of them.

 

[delp]

You are right that men are going to have to help each other to get the solutions and results they need.

What I meant was women spend a lot of time fasting and praying for black men. I am a PK kid okay, and lot of the things I have seen growing up in church were focused on getting the men!! get the men in the church and not just at my dad's church. I would see this in most churches. Get them in leadership. So if the church was 80 percent female, and 20 percent men --the men led everything and when a man got "saved" people would shout more than when women got saved.

We (myself included) would fast and pray about men (prison, struggles, jobs and other issues). BUT as I got older I observed that the men did not fast and pray about the things affecting women (no husbands and single parenting etc). I hope this makes sense. I am not against prayer or anything like that. But my observation is that women put A LOT more into it then they do for us. I wasn't speaking against prayer because I belive in it. I belive after the prayer you have do something--faith without works is dead. I am going to get of topic now, but I will stop here. I hope this clears up what I meant.

Totally agree. Bringing them to church, without mentoring, does nothing. I don't know what to do. It is rather sad. I wish someone would do a real study on what actually reaches and changes the lives of males. Is it job creation, after school programs (basketball- to keep them off the streets), mentoring,taking people from their environment (placement in a rural farm environment), .... I was an at risk youth. What worked for me was mentoring from other black women (I have several mothers) and socially being exposed to youths of various social classes. I feel compassion for our black males (more than than they have given me) but only thing I can do is pray for them from afar. I surely can't give up any ass and become a statistic. RAMBling again... Anyway, I agree with you.

 

[LadyPaniolo]

The issues that are reported with black people are the same anywhere in the western world.

Googling any news article will indicate that.

Disclaimer: I'm sure you are a lovely person with many talents who is adored by many and is kind to small animals. I don't think you are bad or stupid or anything else. I think you have a pretty smile and we both seem to like Jet Li.

That being said, I strongly disagree with your claim that the issues with black folks are the same all over the western world. While there is no country where black folks are cherished and adored above all others, there is a wide range from country to country.

I'll address my problems with this claim first, and address my take on your tone in a later post.

• First lets define our terms, shall we? By "western world" I understand that you mean North America and western Europe: US, England, Canada, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Sweden, etc. To assert that all of these countries have the exact same issues with race is a pretty steep logical hill to climb.

• The situation of blacks in Massachusetts versus Mississippi is vastly different, how in God's name could it be the same all over the western world? Seems unlikely at best.

• The legacy of slavery here vs countries that never permitted it makes a profound difference in the way blacks are treated and percieved.

• The health disparity is shocking. Here in the US black children die of preventable childhood diseases that can be easily treated, while white kids enjoy good health. UK has FREE healthcare to ALL.

• Black Americans have long fled the oppressive racial atmosphere of the US for the comparatively safe and tolerant countries of Canada, England and France. Even as late as the 1970's we see Black American authors and artists doing so. Why do this if it's the same all over?

• My parents have traveled the world and report that they were shocked by how politely blacks were treated in England. It made them really notice how nasty white folks are here at home. Others I've known have said how traveling to Canada is like a vacation from being black, because you get treated like a human being instead of an animal.

• 1 out of 3 black American men will go to prison. To assert that this is the same in every country in the western world is ludicrous and can be easily disproven by checking national statistics online. To see UK stats, see www.statistics.gov.uk. The Home Office also has a website with tons of stats.

• Adoption within the US clearly shows the position of blacks on the bottom of the totem pole. Americans will pay up to $50k to adopt a healthy white newborn, but black children languish unwanted. There are even programs where the gov't will PAY for all the expenses if a family will only accept a black child. This black kids are unwanted, except by whites from Germany and Canada who scoop them up.

• The illegitimacy rate of black children has gotten as high as 70% in the US in recent years, in sharp contrast to American kids of other races. Again, this rate is simply not matched by the entire western world.

• The black family in the US is crumbling fast. Reading this board has probably already alerted you to the "marriage is for white folks" phenomenon. Remember the thread the other day looking for intact black families? Good luck matching this in every country of the western world.

• The racial crime problem in the US is not to be denied. Black Americans are acutely aware of the risk of being physically attacked, especially in some areas. However, the UK National Statistics prove that Bangladeshis and Pakistanis have the dubious honor of the most likely victims of racial crime in the UK.

• School segregation could still be found in the US as late as the 1970's. My ex went to segregated public schools in southern Georgia till 1975. This is not the same across the western world and impacts the experience of blacks to this day, as whites will pay ungodly sums to live in a "white" school district.

• In the US, black women are seen as the least desireable mates. But every single time I meet a white guy from Germany, or especially Sweden, they want to get my drawers so bad they can't see straight. Here I get told I'm "pretty, for a black girl."

I could go on, but I believe I've made my point. To assert that blacks around the western world share the same plight is far from a foregone conclusion.

 

[LadyPaniolo]

The issues that are reported with black people are the same anywhere in the western world.

Googling any news article will indicate that.

The bolded part stuck in my craw. Just because a person does not agree with the position you stated does NOT make them uninformed, stupid or the like. By saying that I should read "any news article" you are implying that I have NOT read any news articles. This could not be further from the truth.

1. You do not know what I have or have not read.

2. Your claim, addressed in my prior post, is a logical stretch well suited for rubber band man. In other words, you are in no position to tell someone to read "any news article".

3. The bolded comment comes off, to me, as condescending.

4. I'm not the joyousNERD for nothing. I don't run off at the mouth without having some knowledge behind my assertions. Most people don't want to read a term paper in each post, so I try to be brief. If you want me to clarify what I say, just ask. No need to be dismissive and rude about it.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, y'all. Please resume on topic discussion.

 

[Poohbear]

Reason 2: No father figures in the homes
Reason 1:Lack of resources in the home!

Think about it, often young black men turn to street living because there is a want in the home. Food, light, a car, clothes. Men of other races often have these things provided for them. They don't have to worry about everyone eating or the lights being cut off, or having a ride to take that pretty girl on a date.

Not just black men...there are A LOT of non-black men who have no father figures, no resources, and don't have the essential life necessities provided for them. There are A LOT of non-black men who have to worry about those things that you have mentioned.

 

[Poohbear]

I still stand by my recent thoughts.

We care about what the men are doing too much.

And I truly think, that's what keeps some of us back.

We focus on the negatives way too much, when there are black men out there that are getting it together.

EXACTLY! Let's empower our Black men.

Yes, there are Black men who are considered losers, but let's not make it a stereotype.

 

[Bunny77]

Disclaimer: I'm sure you are a lovely person with many talents who is adored by many and is kind to small animals. I don't think you are bad or stupid or anything else. I think you have a pretty smile and we both seem to like Jet Li.

That being said, I strongly disagree with your claim that the issues with black folks are the same all over the western world. While there is no country where black folks are cherished and adored above all others, there is a wide range from country to country.

I'll address my problems with this claim first, and address my take on your tone in a later post.

• First lets define our terms, shall we? By "western world" I understand that you mean North America and western Europe: US, England, Canada, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Sweden, etc. To assert that all of these countries have the exact same issues with race is a pretty steep logical hill to climb.

• The situation of blacks in Massachusetts versus Mississippi is vastly different, how in God's name could it be the same all over the western world? Seems unlikely at best.

• The legacy of slavery here vs countries that never permitted it makes a profound difference in the way blacks are treated and percieved.

• The health disparity is shocking. Here in the US black children die of preventable childhood diseases that can be easily treated, while white kids enjoy good health. UK has FREE healthcare to ALL.

• Black Americans have long fled the oppressive racial atmosphere of the US for the comparatively safe and tolerant countries of Canada, England and France. Even as late as the 1970's we see Black American authors and artists doing so. Why do this if it's the same all over?

• My parents have traveled the world and report that they were shocked by how politely blacks were treated in England. It made them really notice how nasty white folks are here at home. Others I've known have said how traveling to Canada is like a vacation from being black, because you get treated like a human being instead of an animal.

• 1 out of 3 black American men will go to prison. To assert that this is the same in every country in the western world is ludicrous and can be easily disproven by checking national statistics online. To see UK stats, see www.statistics.gov.uk. The Home Office also has a website with tons of stats.

• Adoption within the US clearly shows the position of blacks on the bottom of the totem pole. Americans will pay up to $50k to adopt a healthy white newborn, but black children languish unwanted. There are even programs where the gov't will PAY for all the expenses if a family will only accept a black child. This black kids are unwanted, except by whites from Germany and Canada who scoop them up.

• The illegitimacy rate of black children has gotten as high as 70% in the US in recent years, in sharp contrast to American kids of other races. Again, this rate is simply not matched by the entire western world.

• The black family in the US is crumbling fast. Reading this board has probably already alerted you to the "marriage is for white folks" phenomenon. Remember the thread the other day looking for intact black families? Good luck matching this in every country of the western world.

• The racial crime problem in the US is not to be denied. Black Americans are acutely aware of the risk of being physically attacked, especially in some areas. However, the UK National Statistics prove that Bangladeshis and Pakistanis have the dubious honor of the most likely victims of racial crime in the UK.

• School segregation could still be found in the US as late as the 1970's. My ex went to segregated public schools in southern Georgia till 1975. This is not the same across the western world and impacts the experience of blacks to this day, as whites will pay ungodly sums to live in a "white" school district.

• In the US, black women are seen as the least desireable mates. But every single time I meet a white guy from Germany, or especially Sweden, they want to get my drawers so bad they can't see straight. Here I get told I'm "pretty, for a black girl."

I could go on, but I believe I've made my point. To assert that blacks around the western world share the same plight is far from a foregone conclusion.

Joyousnerd, I know you weren't directing this at me, but I wanted to respond since I have studied in Europe and have experienced some things firsthand.

If you are a black AMERICAN, then yes, you will be treated well overseas in Europe because you are black and American. The black people who live in the UK, France and many other countries in Western Europe get their proverbial asses kicked all the time. I've talked to some folks who would LOVE to come to the USA or Canada because they say that black people are by and large doing exponentially better in North America and have lots more opportunities there.

Try being a black immigrant living over there and it's all different. How about the time that I was traveling by ferry from England to Ireland in a school group and I was the only one asked for my passport (everyone else was white). And as soon as the guy saw the cover of my passport and that it was from the US, he let me go... again, it was my AMERICAN heritage, not my blackness, that caused me to be treated well.

When I was in France, I could count on one hand how many black people I saw in professional jobs. A white friend noticed this too. Most of the black women I saw were pushing baby carriages with white babies inside (so they were nannies) and the men were cleaning streets and were janitors. No shame in either game, but there were few black doctors, lawyers, politicians, heck, even teachers like you will find en MASS in the USA.

The UK is also having tons of problems with high "illegitimacy" rates and black families are no more stable there than they are here. There are plenty of black single mothers raising black kids on their own with partners nowhere to be found. It's an almost identical situation to that of the US.

Interracial dating is more accepted, yes, and free healthcare is great, but I know some folks who say that's not all its cracked up to be because of looooong waiting lists to be treated... and sometimes the facilities aren't up to par as they are in the USA.

I'm just saying that this idea that Western Europe is a haven for black people is such a false notion and just because some black tourists and black artists have been treated well there doesn't mean that the native black population there has it easier than in the USA -- I say they have it much worse.

Honestly, I think that black people in the US don't realize how good we have it here... and we really squander the numerous opportunities that we are given over here.

 

[seraphinelle]

I had a long drawn out response, but Bunny pretty much said everything I had to say.



North American black folk do NOT realize how good you have it. How many opportunities you are presented with.

'Visiting' vs 'Staying' in the UK is completely different. I know I got a shock in my system when I recently moved back. And I tell ya, when this degree is over, I'm bringing myself back over the pond.

It is virtually IMPOSSIBLE for anybody to move up in England. Whatever 'class' you're in, is pretty much where you'll stay.

 

[seraphinelle]

The bolded part stuck in my craw. Just because a person does not agree with the position you stated does NOT make them uninformed, stupid or the like. By saying that I should read "any news article" you are implying that I have NOT read any news articles. This could not be further from the truth.

1. You do not know what I have or have not read.

2. Your claim, addressed in my prior post, is a logical stretch well suited for rubber band man. In other words, you are in no position to tell someone to read "any news article".

3. The bolded comment comes off, to me, as condescending.

4. I'm not the joyousNERD for nothing. I don't run off at the mouth without having some knowledge behind my assertions. Most people don't want to read a term paper in each post, so I try to be brief. If you want me to clarify what I say, just ask. No need to be dismissive and rude about it.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, y'all. Please resume on topic discussion.

You got all that from 7 words?

 

[LadyPaniolo]

If you are a black AMERICAN, then yes, you will be treated well overseas in Europe because you are black and American. The black people who live in the UK, France and many other countries in Western Europe get their proverbial asses kicked all the time. I've talked to some folks who would LOVE to come to the USA or Canada because they say that black people are by and large doing exponentially better in North America and have lots more opportunities there.

I hadn't considered the role that being an American could play in how you are treated. That certainly could explain my parents experience. That and the fact that my stepfather is a VERY wealthy businessman. He owns a multinational financial reporting firm and was there on business. But they did observe that customers in shops, etc were treated far better than at home.

I would never dream of immigrating anywhere. I love my country, cheesy as it sounds.

The UK is also having tons of problems with high "illegitimacy" rates and black families are no more stable there than they are here. There are plenty of black single mothers raising black kids on their own with partners nowhere to be found. It's an almost identical situation to that of the US.

That may well be, but at least those babies are afforded the social safety net that we lack here. How likely are these black Brits to end up on the streets eating garbage out of the can?

Interracial dating is more accepted, yes, and free healthcare is great, but I know some folks who say that's not all its cracked up to be because of looooong waiting lists to be treated... and sometimes the facilities aren't up to par as they are in the USA.

Did you read the thread yesterday about the woman who DIED in the ER as the nurses watched her writhing around, coughing up blood, but refused to help her? Hard to believe it would be worse than that.

I'm just saying that this idea that Western Europe is a haven for black people is such a false notion and just because some black tourists and black artists have been treated well there doesn't mean that the native black population there has it easier than in the USA -- I say they have it much worse.

Honestly, I think that black people in the US don't realize how good we have it here... and we really squander the numerous opportunities that we are given over here.

I think people all over the world fall for the "grass is greener" thinking, and most folks don't fully take advantage of the opportunities they have at hand, wherever on the globe they live.

 

[Bunny77]

That may well be, but at least those babies are afforded the social safety net that we lack here. How likely are these black Brits to end up on the streets eating garbage out of the can?

I'm sure they aren't homeless, but their social safety net ain't all that great. It's just like welfare over here, which as we know is no great way to live.

The projects over there are horrible and kids grow up in poverty all the time in the UK. Street violence is common -- shoot, Tony Blair made comments about excessive black involvement in street crime.

So they might not be eating out of garbage cans and living on the streets, but poverty over there is just as real and just as bad as it is here. There's an article I remember reading about one such family... when I get a chance to find it, I'll post it.

Did you read the thread yesterday about the woman who DIED in the ER as the nurses watched her writhing around, coughing up blood, but refused to help her? Hard to believe it would be worse than that.

I read that and was appalled. Believe me, I'd take free healthcare ANY day, but what I'm saying is that free healthcare still doesn't mean that folks over there get everything they need all the time. There are limits to their system -- maybe fewer than what we have in the USA, but their system has its problems as well.

I think people all over the world fall for the "grass is greener" thinking, and most folks don't fully take advantage of the opportunities they have at hand, wherever on the globe they live.

After finishing my study abroad programs, I always said I wished I could take some elements of Europe and mix them with elements of the USA and make a perfect country... so no place is perfect and one country might be better for one person than another... I was just disputing the idea that Western Europe is exponentially better for black folks than the USA is because of the experiences of black Americans abroad. And I think that too many black Americans don't take advantage of what is here.

\Now Canada... hmmm... we might have something there!

 

[seraphinelle]

After finishing my study abroad programs, I always said I wished I could take some elements of Europe and mix them with elements of the USA and make a perfect country... so no place is perfect and one country might be better for one person than another... I was just disputing the idea that Western Europe is exponentially better for black folks than the USA is because of the experiences of black Americans abroad. And I think that too many black Americans don't take advantage of what is here.

\Now Canada... hmmm... we might have something there!

Funny enough, mixed elements of the US and Europe = Canada



I remember not too long ago a lady that was asking how could she go about migrating to North America, for the same reasons that are said don't exist or aren't as extreme in the UK.

I have met many people while being over there (UK) that are actively looking to move to north america.

 

[Mortons]

I dont think Black men fall off for lack of father figure or lack of resources. They fall off from lack of ambition to do better. With the amount of technology today, the children living in poor situations see other Blacks doing better all of the time. They can aspire to be like them or have a defeatist attitude. Depends on the person.

1. I know 2 males in my family who have had good father figures. I mean GOOD men. 1 of them has 2 father figures (dad and a stepdad) both of whom are good hard working men. Both of these boys are barely scraping by, living at home, and doing as little as possible. Lack of ambition

2. Not every male that goes to school across the street from me at morehouse had a computer at home (or a dad for that matter). A lot of the men at Clark Atlanta did not have decent technology or resources at home either. But now they are in college. Those who do not end up in college were for, lack of ambition. You must want more for yourself in order to get more. Its not going to be handed to you, regardless of rather you are a male or female, daddy no daddy, good school bad school, etc.

I do think that we concentrate on what Black men dont have A LOT. What about our black girls? Its rare people say anything about them, unless its to say how 'fast' they have gotten. Some stuff we say makes me shake my head, because I can walk right across the street and see it disproven on a large scale.