Time To Stock Up. Wetline Has Changed Their Formula

[Saludable84]

Why can’t we be happy? Is that so hard????

 

[PJaye]

Have you tried any of them yet @PJaye?

Earlier, I refreshed my ponytail and used some of the new tub to smooth the edges down. The look and texture of it was the same. It didn't feel as crispy or stiff, and it gave good shine and hold. Every so often, I've been checking things out in a mirror and examining things. So far so good, but still...

 

[Aggie]

Earlier, I refreshed my ponytail and used some of the new tub to smooth the edges down. The look and texture of it was the same. It didn't feel as crispy or stiff, and it gave good shine and hold. Every so often, I've been checking things out in a mirror and examining things. So far so good, but still...

Okay this sounds good. It better not be watery on my hair - ((sucks teeth))

 

[PJaye]

Okay this sounds good. It better not be watery on my hair - ((sucks teeth))

It's not watery, but it's definitely more jiggly and a tad looser than the previous version. The old one is clear, but the new one has lots and lots of those bubble things in it. It also smells a snag more chemical-ly.

 

[Honey Bee]

Dammit, and I just opened my last jar. Why? WHY???

And this is why I'm making my own products. I don't have the time for this.

 

[Chicoro]

It looks like the moved the carbomer from the 2nd ingredient to the 4th ingredient. The money is in the carbomer! I guess.

Then they add an additional plastic to the mix. The other junk is fragrance, fragrance preservatives and preservatives that protect the product against water borne microbes.

 

[Chicoro]

Dammit, and I just opened my last jar. Why? WHY???

And this is why I'm making my own products. I don't have the time for this.

Wetline better quit playing. Or else.... May be time to get to mixing , myself!


Carbomer Gel Recipe

Phase A

water 40%

carbomer 940 0.4%



Phase B

water qs to 95-100%*

Propylene glycol 5%

Niacinamide 5%

Aloe 100x powder 0.4%



Phase C

Licorice Extract (alcohol based) 5%

Liquid Germall Plus 0.5%

Triethanolamine 0.4 - 0.6%

 

[LdyKamz]

Maybe this is a stupid question but how does changing the formulas on any of these products make them money? The products are popular as is and when they change the formula of course there is a spike in sales because everyone is trying to get their hands on the old version. Once they're gone don't sales dip? I'm confused about why they do this.

 

[SuchaLady]

Ughhhhhhhh

I am sooooo annoyed Why do this?!

 

[SuchaLady]

I might relax my hair now I am pretty sure that last time I didn't relax for two years Ecostyler letting me down too many times contributed to me giving up and I said forget it

Wetline holds my 1,926 weeks post hair in place until I move it.

 

[Saludable84]

Dammit, and I just opened my last jar. Why? WHY???

And this is why I'm making my own products. I don't have the time for this.

I’m really upset. Now I will have to hit up every beauty supply for the old formula.

 

[Saludable84]

@Chicoro ive been researching gel making for a while and it seems there is one type of carbomer that is easier to use than the other.

There is one type that involves some type of stabilization process and is temperature sensitive. Also needs more ingredients (I think the polyquat). Then there is another that just requires water. I hope to figure it out soon.

 

[Chicoro]

Maybe this is a stupid question but how does changing the formulas on any of these products make them money? The products are popular as is and when they change the formula of course there is a spike in sales because everyone is trying to get their hands on the old version. Once they're gone don't sales dip? I'm confused about why they do this.

It's not a stupid question.

They change the formula to use cheaper ingredients or use LESS of an ingredient to save money. For example, carbomer is one of the main ingredients. Depending upon which one they use, it can get pricey. Some carbomer is 2x the price of others. In addition to changing the quality of the carbomer they have moved it lower on the ingredients label, meaning there is LESS carbomer in the newer formula than in the 'original' one. In one jar, the change is no biggy. In several tons of the finished product, you impact your price point, if you are the manufacturer. [The aforementioned information is all conjecture. As in, I'm just guessing and speculating. I don't know why they made the formula change or if they changed to cheaper ingredients or not.]

The money is not made in the spike in the sales. The money is made in cost savings by selling the product at the same price, but using cheaper ingredients, over a longer length of time.

Creme of Nature Shampoo did this. They changed their formula and put in some stuff that didn't work as well. I have no idea where the article is, but I read where their line was negatively impacted by the formula change.

They ignore black women consumers but they [pretend like they] don't realize the influence that we have and how we buy stuff via 'word of mouth' on social media, because we trust each other.

I have no data to back it up, but I believe a huge part of the popularity or profits of Wetline came from black women buying the product, at least here in the United States.

 

[Chicoro]

@Chicoro ive been researching gel making for a while and it seems there is one type of carbomer that is easier to use than the other.

There is one type that involves some type of stabilization process and is temperature sensitive. Also needs more ingredients (I think the polyquat). Then there is another that just requires water. I hope to figure it out soon.

It's a done deal. It's just a matter time. Let us know that formula or tell us about your product so we can buy it from you and support your business.

 

[LdyKamz]

The money is not made in the spike in the sales. The money is made in cost savings by selling the product at the same price, but using cheaper ingredients, over a longer length of time.

Thanks! This is where they lose me though. In theory it makes sense but it only works if they are operating under the assumption that their percentage of sales does not decrease. They have not taken into account that while they save big because it is cheaper to make they lose a portion of profits if people aren't buying at the same rate. With a crappier/cheaper product the best case scenario is they lose tons of customers but don't feel the hit since they aren't spending as much to make it as before. In that sense they haven't lost much but they didn't gain anything either.

 

[Honey Bee]

Then there is another that just requires water.

I saw this the other day (but I'm not gonna link cuz the streets iz watching ). Are you experimenting with it now? You gon sell it?! Please keep the price reasonable if you do, these companies done lost they mind out here.

@Chicoro Came thru with the recipe and percentages! I know that's right! *jazzy auntie high five, don't act like yall don't know what I'm talking about *

 

[Saludable84]

I saw this the other day (but I'm not gonna link cuz the streets iz watching ). Are you experimenting with it now? You gon sell it?! Please keep the price reasonable if you do, these companies done lost they mind out here.

@Chicoro Came thru with the recipe and percentages! I know that's right! *jazzy auntie high five, don't act like yall don't know what I'm talking about *

I’ve got something but I’m still researching the carbomers and prices. Hoping to have something figured out by February.

 

[Chicoro]

I saw this the other day (but I'm not gonna link cuz the streets iz watching ). Are you experimenting with it now? You gon sell it?! Please keep the price reasonable if you do, these companies done lost they mind out here.

@Chicoro Came thru with the recipe and percentages! I know that's right! *jazzy auntie high five, don't act like yall don't know what I'm talking about *

I found that on the internet!! But, it's a start, right?! I tried to put the link but it created a 20 paragraph long post and I figured you all didn't want to see all that. Let me know if you want the link, though.

 

[BklynHeart]

It also looks like the original formula was made in the U.S. new one is made in Mexico.

 

[Bunnyhaslonghair]

No luck at any of my Sally’s

 

[Chicoro]

So if Echo styler doesn't work, and Wetline holds hair down 'like tap' water now. What are my options. That's not a question. There are 525 gels out in the streets and they got to mess with Wetline.

 

[Chicoro]

I might relax my hair now I am pretty sure that last time I didn't relax for two years Ecostyler letting me down too many times contributed to me giving up and I said forget it

Wetline holds my 1,926 weeks post hair in place until I move it.

How many weeks post? The last time you relaxed was about 3 Centenarian Life Times ago! I hope the new formula holds down your new growth, too!

 

[Dposh167]

Thanks! This is where they lose me though. In theory it makes sense but it only works if they are operating under the assumption that their percentage of sales does not decrease. They have not taken into account that while they save big because it is cheaper to make they lose a portion of profits if people aren't buying at the same rate. With a crappier/cheaper product the best case scenario is they lose tons of customers but don't feel the hit since they aren't spending as much to make it as before. In that sense they haven't lost much but they didn't gain anything either.

from a consumer's perspective, it makes sense. But to a company who is selling their product whole sale to Beauty supply stores/retailers all over the country, they look at it differently. Their costs to manufacture a product matter greatly when you are producing in bulk. They get "their" money from the retailers/beauty supply stores who are buying it from them. It will be a while before they see a deduction in sales based on the formula change from a consumer's angle. Remember it's people like us who care about ingredient changes. The average person buying wetline probably won't notice or care unless the performance is drastically different. OR if consumers raise complaints socially which has happened to other brands in the past.

As a consumer of wetline gel for years...i hate formula changes. But as someone who works in manufacturing I totally get why things have to change from production stand point. All I know is that ECO Styler better be careful if they even THINK on changing the ingredients to that gel. All hell with break loose

 

[Chicoro]

from a consumer's perspective, it makes sense. But to a company who is selling their product whole sale to Beauty supply stores/retailers all over the country, they look at it differently. Their costs to manufacture a product matter greatly when you are producing in bulk. They get "their" money from the retailers/beauty supply stores who are buying it from them. It will be a while before they see a deduction in sales based on the formula change from a consumer's angle. Remember it's people like us who care about ingredient changes. The average person buying wetline probably won't notice or care unless the performance is drastically different. OR if consumers raise complaints socially which has happened to other brands in the past.

As a consumer of wetline gel for years...i hate formula changes. But as someone who works in manufacturing I totally get why things have to change from production stand point. All I know is that ECO Styler better be careful if they even THINK on changing the ingredients to that gel. All hell with break loose

Great explanation that addresses both @KammyGirl 's perspective and mine. Very clear and very well written and thought out. Thank you!

 

[LdyKamz]

They get "their" money from the retailers/beauty supply stores who are buying it from them. It will be a while before they see a deduction in sales based on the formula change from a consumer's angle.

Ah this explains it. I was thinking of it in terms of coming from manufacturers straight to consumers hands. Your post cleared that up. Thanks!

 

[Bunnyhaslonghair]

No luck at any of my Sally’s

So my Walmart doesn’t carry this product either. I guess I’m done with wetline. Back to eco styler. It’s been real.

 

[PJaye]

Update: The reformulated version is definitely not the same.

Ya know how the old Wetline laid things down and they stayed there until a person decided to move them? Yeah, this stuff doesn't do that. Not at all. Ya know how an individual could refresh and reactivate the old version with a mist of water, a brush and a scarf without reapplying? Mm hmm, the new one doesn't do that either. Ya know how the old one had unbelievable shine and enduring hold? Yep, you guessed it; the new one's shine and hold doesn't last for more than a day. The only thing the new version has is less crunch or stiffness. But, who cares about that when the performance sucks!

 

[Autumn~Tint~Of~Gold]

It's not a stupid question.

They change the formula to use cheaper ingredients or use LESS of an ingredient to save money. For example, carbomer is one of the main ingredients. Depending upon which one they use, it can get pricey. Some carbomer is 2x the price of others. In addition to changing the quality of the carbomer they have moved it lower on the ingredients label, meaning there is LESS carbomer in the newer formula than in the 'original' one. In one jar, the change is no biggy. In several tons of the finished product, you impact your price point, if you are the manufacturer. [The aforementioned information is all conjecture. As in, I'm just guessing and speculating. I don't know why they made the formula change or if they changed to cheaper ingredients or not.]

The money is not made in the spike in the sales. The money is made in cost savings by selling the product at the same price, but using cheaper ingredients, over a longer length of time.

Creme of Nature Shampoo did this. They changed their formula and put in some stuff that didn't work as well. I have no idea where the article is, but I read where their line was negatively impacted by the formula change.

They ignore black women consumers but they [pretend like they] don't realize the influence that we have and how we buy stuff via 'word of mouth' on social media, because we trust each other.

I have no data to back it up, but I believe a huge part of the popularity or profits of Wetline came from black women buying the product, at least here in the United States.

I really don't think this has a thing to do with the color of the customers.
I recently noticed that the only foundation I use, Nars Sheer Glow had a pretty significant formulary ( is that the right word lol?) change between the last bottle I bought perhaps 2-3 years ago and the most recent bottle this year.
Funny enough I have not seen anyone online mention this! Most people don't pay any attention to these things and compare older packaging to new.
It concerned me because I thought it may not work the same and I'm not quite sure it does. It could be my skin but it seems drier and the color seems a bit off ( could be my imagination).
Companies just do not gaf about their customers and they'll pull the wool over your eyes any chance they get to shave costs for themselves.

 

[PeaceFlow]

I really don't think this has a thing to do with the color of the customers.
I recently noticed that the only foundation I use, Nars Sheer Glow had a pretty significant formulary ( is that the right word lol?) change between the last bottle I bought perhaps 2-3 years ago and the most recent bottle this year.
Funny enough I have not seen anyone online mention this! Most people don't pay any attention to these things and compare older packaging to new.
It concerned me because I thought it may not work the same and I'm not quite sure it does. It could be my skin but it seems drier and the color seems a bit off ( could be my imagination).
Companies just do not gaf about their customers and they'll pull the wool over your eyes any chance they get to shave costs for themselves.

I agree with this. I have seen formula changes in many products like Ponds Cold cream for example that have a large white following. Honestly I don't talk to people about products often IRL, mostly just LHCF, but I see moaning in reviews online from all races. One of my white friends just had an inferior reformulation of her cleanser recently and her daily moisturiser - the brand has a majority white base.

Anyhoo this article is from a doctor who is asked by brands to reformulate products:

What are the real reasons why a brand might change its formulas?

1) A need for media attention.
Yes, with more and more novelties and new brands being launched, it’s difficult for brands to stay in the spotlight and keep their position in the minds of the cosmetics addicts, who often almost compulsively look for new hits all the time. I want one, I want one, I want one! (I’m hardly even exaggerating. )

It’s the same mechanics that make People magazine work, which relies on juicy stories, or paparazzis that look for a new scoop: it’s vital to be able to present new stuff that will be covered by the specialised media which often helps to create the new star product.

Because cosmetics brands and celebrities alike are doomed to depend on an artificial respirator, in a way; their survival depends on this system, on this perfectly standardised media apparatus that makes the difference between who lives and who “dies”… either you’re “in” or you’re “out”… Which side are you on?

I’m exaggerating a bit, but let’s be realistic: in that sort of highly competitive environment, in that bloody, Spartacus-esque battlefield, manufacturers don’t have any choice; they have to do something, they have to fight to survive, or they’ll fade out of existence.

And one of their weapons in this battle against oblivion is reformulating products. Products that have completed one “life cycle” and that have, in a way, lived out their first lives, will then have to undergo some “modifications” to remain fashionable… yep, the time has come for their second lives.

2) Reduced costs.
It’s true that in some cases, a manufacturer really does start using new active ingredients in order to noticeably improve a product, give it a better feel, and be able to offer the consumers real added value, but unfortunately that’s still rather uncommon… Often, when you try out one of these reformulated and theoretically improved products, and especially if you knew the original product well, you’ll notice unexpected differences: the product seems less effective, it seems to be lower quality… I often hear people say “oh, it used to be better than this”, or “huh, that’s weird, it’s not as good as it used to be. I loved this product, what’s going on? I don’t get it.” No, I can tell you, it’s not just you!

For the manufacturers that contact me to have their products reformulated, 80% of the time, their main interest is to reduce the production costs of their product, in order to increase their profit margins… Of course, some properties that are specific to the brand need to be preserved (scent, feel…) but first and foremost, it needs to be cheaper to produce…

To them, it’s a win-win situation in every aspect:

• The production costs decrease, and their profit margin increases;
• Their loyal consumers get a reformulated product, which gives them a sense of novelty and (non-existent) innovation that makes the brand seem dynamic;
• The reformulation gives them new publicity in the traditional media and online (in magazines and blogs); and
• This publicity allows them to “recruit” new consumers… and to increase their brand awareness and reputation.

Long story short, the manufacturers hit a gold mine. They get to wake their sleeping beauty and they get a free PR boost to boot.

How do I create a cheaper reformulation? Well, it’s simple. I just replace as many ingredients with cheaper ones as I can without changing the feel of the product too much… But even for the best formulator in the world, it’s not always an easy task (considering also the required delays for this reformulation) to end up with a product that’s exactly as effective.

So I’m already happy if the product is almost identical; and if it’s actually better, that’s a reason to break out the Champomy ( it is a fake “champagne” for kids… I don’t drink alcohol. I know, I live a sad life…) And yet I hardly ever drink Champomy, that’s saying something… You might as well ask a 4 star cook to come up with an amazing dish made from mediocre quality ingredients… I’m sure they could pull it off, but most of the time, the product is inevitably a more disappointing one. And yet, the loyalty of the consumers to that product makes up for the difference… Love really is blind, isn’t it? (Anyone who can attest to that? )

3) Shortage of and increased prices for certain ingredients.
If you have a product that’s mad of certain ingredients, and the availability of those ingredients fluctuates, to a point where they’re nearly out of stock… then you need to consider reformulating that product with more commonplace ingredients. Usually these are synthetic ingredients that are not or hardly affected, due to their production methods.

For natural ingredients, the supply is more subject to factors like quality of the harvests, demand, climate, etc… And with the rise of organic brands, and the establishing of big names in that sector, organic ingredients are obviously more in demand, but more importantly, they’re being more and more reserved for the big brands that hog them all. That’s why it’s not uncommon for small brands to end up without any materials, or just some leftovers…

That’s what happened with squalane, which was out of stock for months on end. One of my clients asked me to find him some… and I replied, um, sure, I could… can it wait for a year?

It’s like with gasoline prices. (2 Euros a litre in Paris right now! At this rate I’m going to have to start taking the bike to work… that should save me some money ) Cosmetic ingredients can be subject to price differences that border on the insane, too. The prices soar and as you can understand, that could lead to a lot of problems for the manufacturers… This was the case for jojoba oil, vitamin E and (non-GMO) soybean oil.

4) Media and/or consumer influence.
Brands are also dependent on the goodwill of their consumers. Nothing to complain about there, right? During the paraben scandal, which was a serious turmoil to the cosmetic industry, the great majority of the manufacturers had no choice but to replace parabens with different preservatives… be it rightly or wrongly… and that was all because of pressure from the media and the public, who managed to make the manufacturers revise a sizeable proportion of their products… based on a believed risk that was dubious at best…

It’s a strong indicator of the consumers’ power, which is quite reassuring in a way.

Brands need to bend over backwards to meet every demand of well-informed consumers who demand more transparency and more safety while still valuing that aspect of dreamy glamour that it gives them…

Happy, ladies? Well, don’t get carried away, these are still very limited changes… I’m sorry, but cosmetics companies are craftier than that.

5) Changes in the regulations.
Cosmetics regulations have become a lot more strict these recent years, which, in my opinion, is also a good thing in itself. Safety norms and good manufacturing practice are getting close to medical-grade manufacturing standards, which guarantees more safety for the consumer.

Some ingredients are no longer allowed, or their maximal dosages have been reduced. So formulas that don’t comply with these new standards have to be modified to comply with the new regulations.

But these reformulations are usually only an option for brands that can afford them, since reformulation is expensive. The reformulation itself is expensive (that’s most of the budget… what do you mean, I’m expensive? But I’m worth it! Haha) and then there are stability tests, microbiological tests, tolerance tests, toxicity tests… that take a considerable amount of money, and not everyone can afford that.

So the niche brands, the smaller ones, get in trouble for not having the money to pay for these mandatory modifications… The little brands, the ones with limited funds but grand ambitions, are often shoved aside like that, wiped off the chessboard that’s being dominated by the big names.

Of course, there are also brands that only mention their new formulas to show off, without really making any significant changes… Just putting “new formula!” in a corner on the box, and making only token changes to the formula, just enough to get that claim past the consumer protection people… and there you go! Rake in all the cash.

A cheap little bogus modification and it pays off in solid gold… risk-free… Pretty neat, isn’t it? It’s the very definition of intelligence… wouldn’t you agree?

What about you? Do you know any reformulated products? Did you notice any real differences in the product before and after the reformulation? Would you say “absolutely, they changed the formula and now I hate this product, it was way better before” or rather mumble, still half asleep, with bed hair and a drowsy look in your eyes… “huh, what? Oh, they changed it? Nope, didn’t notice a thing…”

 

[Autumn~Tint~Of~Gold]

Does anyone know if the new Wetline is made in Mexico as the previous formula was ( iirc and too lazy to go and check my tub lol)?
Maybe they had to take the Mexican magic out