The Official Catholic Thread

[ktykaty]

My point was.. regardless of what denomination we belong to.. We all have one goal... to be saved at the end.... Christ won't ask what denomination you identify with.

As unique individuals, a one-size fits all approach IMO is impractical... Hence why I can identify with some things.. and others I don't.

To me... as salvation is the goal, it should always always be the focus of every Christian and church.... other distractions, the reasons why denominations exist today, rules, regulations and rituals, even though they have good intentions mostly serve to distract from the goal.

Tis' all.

I have a question, what is your personal definition of salvation ?? How does it manifests ??


To the first bolded. The approach of the RCC is not one size fit all. Quite the opposite. It's mass for everyone and other groups/activities to carter to your taste. Even in the organization of mass, there's room for cultural differentiation while mass stays mass.

To the second bolded. Maybe novenas, rosary, ... are not your cup of tea. They are not distractions. We are universal, there's stuff inside the RCC for all tastes. In the RCC, rules, regulations and rituals only purpose is to give us an opportunity to meet Jesus and to get to know him better. It's always all about Jesus.

HTH.

 

[ktykaty]

Re: Charismatic Catholics

Can you explain what becoming a member of a Charismatic congregation means? Thanks

Sorry for being so late.

In my community, we have a minimum of two years before becoming a "full" member, so that one can discern whether or not they are really called into the community.

 

[ktykaty]

I've met a couple of Charismatics, but I've never gone. Charismatic Catholics, please share!

In a charismatic assembly, usually there is lots of singing/praise, people are singing or speaking in tongues or prophesying, hands are raised, people are praying spontaneously, giving thanks to the Lord in their own words. Sometime we dance.
One characteristic of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal is a strong adherence to the Gospel and the teachings of the Church.

Different community/prayer group/person have different ministry. Some are specialized in healing or deliverance.

Mass in a charismatic parish is more lively and joyful.

 

[auparavant]

^^ I didn't mean that it is actually written to kill Christians.. sorry if my post sounded like that... i meant that St. Paul did the things he did in the name of the law.. thanks for clarifying tho.

Again.. i think u guys r interpreting my post to mean that im losing my faith in Christ or thr Church... im simply saying that ther r things (like any church - i only call the RCC cos thats where I go) that IN MY OPINION, although well intended, serve to shift focus from the end goal and building a relationship with christ. I appreciate all Y'alls comments btw even tho we may not agree...

No problem, I understood...and still, it was his interpretation to justify his killings and that of the most strict sect, the Pharisees, whom Jesus rebuked for their lack of soul,basically. Of course, the L-rd threw Saul off his high horse.

 

[Galadriel]

My point was.. regardless of what denomination we belong to.. We all have one goal... to be saved at the end.... Christ won't ask what denomination you identify with.

The Church isn't a denomination.

To me... as salvation is the goal, it should always always be the focus of every Christian and church.... other distractions, the reasons why denominations exist today, rules, regulations and rituals, even though they have good intentions mostly serve to distract from the goal.

What do you mean by "rules, regulations and rituals"?

 

[Galadriel]

Now this is not saying the church's teachings are not effective... it is simply saying that while history and rules are important.... they are not alwys perfect..

You know how we Catholics like to use precise terminology . What are you defining as "rules"?

 

[JudithO]

ktykaty Salvation to me means being safe from eternal damnation when I leave earth.... It means loving and trusting Christ with all of my heart and soul by his grace, and living according to his teachings (with guidance from the Holy Spirit).. What brings me closer to salvation? Anything or anyone who helps me grow spiritually and helps me understand, love, trust and obey Christ even more.

Galadriel Some things that I feel are nice but unnecessary? Novena's, Intercessory Prayers to Saints, praying the rosary, ashes on ash Wednesday, not eating meat on Fridays during Lent, not saying Halleluiah and the Gloria during lent, the general aura of sadness and heavy hearts during lent, confession requirement/recommendation once a yr, naming after canonized saints when we receive the different sacraments....

Please do not try to explain why these things I mention above are right to do or biblical, why we do them etc... because I know they are, I know the biblical passages that support them, and I see absolutely nothing wrong with them.

I just do not think they are necessary for salvation, or helping me understand the person of Christ better.

I'll be glad to elaborate if you want to know why I think any of those things are not necessary.... but please don't point me to biblical passages telling me why these things are good/bad.... because I most likely have read them already.. and it will take away from the point I'm trying to make.

 

[Galadriel]

@Galadriel Some things that I feel are nice but unnecessary? Novena's, Intercessory Prayers to Saints, praying the rosary, ashes on ash Wednesday, not eating meat on Fridays during Lent, not saying Halleluiah and the Gloria during lent, the general aura of sadness and heavy hearts during lent, confession requirement/recommendation once a yr, naming after canonized saints when we receive the different sacraments....

Please do not try to explain why these things I mention above are right to do or biblical, why we do them etc... because I know they are, I know the biblical passages that support them, and I see absolutely nothing wrong with them.

I just do not think they are necessary for salvation, or helping me understand the person of Christ better.

I'll be glad to elaborate if you want to know why I think any of those things are not necessary.... but please don't point me to biblical passages telling me why these things are good/bad.... because I most likely have read them already.. and it will take away from the point I'm trying to make.

With all due respect, your position seems to hold contradictions. On one hand you say these things are rooted in the Bible and are good, but on the other hand you say they contribute nothing to one's Christian life or closeness with Christ (or worse, distracts one from Christ).

 

[JudithO]

^^Distracts.. is the wrong word... cos it implies that it takes away from Christ... So I'm sorry I used that word as that is not what I meant...

I don't think my post is contradictory.... E.g... I can ask a Saint to intercede on my behalf OR I, with the help of the Holy Spirit that dwells in me can go directly to Christ and ask for forgiveness myself.... While there is nothing wrong with the former, I do not need to do it when I can just do the latter. There is a different level of humility, trust, and accountability when you go directly to someone you hurt to ask for forgiveness vs asking someone to intercede on your behalf. I believe that the level of friendship and trust (and maybe it is psychological) that you develop when you always go to Christ directly for praise, forgiveness, and favors, is different from that you develop by going thru intercessors and that over time will help grow stronger and much closer to Christ cos you have the confidence to approach him knowing that he will listen. For me, intercessory prayers instilled fear for the lord in me... cos I was so afraid to go to him directly, and instead chose to go thru another route.

This is just an example where I find it good, but unnecessary....

 

[Belle Du Jour]

I kinda like the rules of the CC

I was always curious about religious traditions that seemed to do more "stuff" that we did in my Protestant denomination growing up. And I always wondered what happened to the rituals Jews used to do and why they disappeared from Christianity. I get that Christ was the fulfillment of the law and a lot of the old rules may not apply to us and I don't think the lack of tradition is necessarily wrong, but I think that when you understand the symbolism behind what is done at Mass, you see the beauty of tradition.

Mass is very misjudged and misunderstood. The more I went, the more I realized it wasn't this boring thing to just sit through, but a very reverent sacred time. I can still appreciate a more protestant style of worship in terms of music, preaching, etc so I will definitely be checking out Charismatic churches in the near future.

Regarding sacramentals, from what I understand, they are not necessary, but I feel like that bring me closer to God.

 

[Belle Du Jour]

Confession is a sacrament, and necessary, especially if you've committed a mortal sin. Confession and absolution should bring you closer to Christ and give you grace.

This is a little bit of a sticking point for me: why do you have to go to confession for mortal sins? Why can't those sins be absolved by simply asking God for forgiveness or the Confetior at mass? I know you have to be in a state of grace to take communion but why do you need confession to be in a state of grace?

 

[auparavant]

Because in those old days, Jews went to the priests to leave a small sacrifice and receive absolution. This is where it comes from. You need confession to restore a state of grace after having committed a mortal sin. Mortal sin removes that grace. Days of RCIA with Matthew and John...and me cutting up in class. LOL.

I'm lazy tonight...so here's a quick web...listen to the thing here. Scroll to the bottom for "Why do catholic confess to a priest" and click on the "answer" button:

http://www.catholicscomehome.org/answers-why-confession.php


Well, the quick answer is because that's the way God wants us to do it. In James 5:16, God, through Sacred Scripture, commands us to "confess our sins to one another." Notice, Scripture does not say confess your sins straight to God and only to God...it says confess your sins to one another.

In Matthew, chapter 9, verse 6, Jesus tells us that He was given authority on earth to forgive sins. And then Scripture proceeds to tell us, in verse 8, that this authority was given to "men"...plural.

In John 20, verses 21-23, what is the 1st thing Jesus says to the gathered disciples on the night of His resurrection? "Jesus said to them, 'Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.'" How did the Father send Jesus? Well, we just saw in Mt 9 that the Father sent Jesus with the authority on earth to forgive sins. Now, Jesus sends out His disciples as the Father has sent Him...so, what authority must Jesus be sending His disciples out with? The authority on earth to forgive sins. And, just in case they didn't get it, verses 22-23 say this, "And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.'"

Why would Jesus give the Apostles the power to forgive or to retain sins if He wasn't expecting folks to confess their sins to them? And how could they forgive or retain sins if no one was confessing their sins to them?

The Bible tells us to confess our sins to one another. It also tells us that God gave men the authority on Earth to forgive sins. Jesus sends out His disciples with the authority on earth to forgive sins. When Catholics confess our sins to a priest, we are simply following the plan laid down by Jesus Christ. He forgives sins through the priest...it is God's power, but He exercises that power through the ministry of the priest.

 

[auparavant]

necessary[/B] for salvation, or helping me understand the person of Christ better.

I'll be glad to elaborate if you want to know why I think any of those things are not necessary.... but please don't point me to biblical passages telling me why these things are good/bad.... because I most likely have read them already.. and it will take away from the point I'm trying to make.

The church didn't say that novenas and rosaries are necessary for salvation. Does prayer and the reciting or reading of scripture help one to know Christ better? Novenas are prayers. The rosary is scripture. But there is no mandate to pray the rosary for salvation. I find that people who do such long prayers are actually offering up a sacrifice to the L-rd. They are putting in more than the necessary time and actions to maintain their faith. They are going beyond because they love Him and wish to get closer.

 

[Rsgal]

Why Did You Convert?

Question for the Converts:

Why did you convert to Catholicism?

As a cradle Catholic, I took a lot of things in the church for granted. My faith has tremendously grown in the last 10 years mainly because of influences from converts. Their dedication and enthusiasm has been such a blessing to me and helped me strength my faith.

Here are some of the Converts who are such an inspiration to me. I’ve read their books, followed on FB, their websites and heard their messages on TV.

Dr. Scott Hahn-----Presbyterian Minister. Converted in 1986.
www.scotthahn.com/ - he (and his wife) is great public speaker and writer.

Richard L Lane. Former Lutheran. Converted in 2003.
http://www.qorban.net/ - one of the best known Black Catholic Evangelists. Heard the pleasure of hearing evangelize and he can preach!


Marcus Grodi ----- Former Protestant Minister.
http://www.marcusgrodi.com/ - he is the host of “The journey Home” on EWTN where he talks to converts and their conversion.



Some of my favourite places for inspiration, learning and truth are http://www.uCatholic.com/apologetics and
www.wordonfire.com – Fr. Robert Barron is always on point and has great spiritual knowledge

I have a God daughter who at 22 converted from Islam to Catholicism. Also my niece (35yrs) will become one on Easter Virgil (mass) when she receives her first Holy Communion and Confirmation.

 

[auparavant]

Question for the Converts:

Why did you convert to catholicism?

Tried RCIA 3 times, the last was a charm. I figured, if it was good enough for my mother to convert, then I'd convert. Why wait any longer or search elsewhere? I just put down spiritual roots and that was it. Oh, I know Our Lady was helping me. In essence, it was a calculated decision. Put my kids in the cute little catholic school and it was history.

 

[Rsgal]

Question for the Converts:

Why did you convert to catholicism?

Tried RCIA 3 times, the last was a charm. I figured, if it was good enough for my mother to convert, then I'd convert. Why wait any longer or search elsewhere? I just put down spiritual roots and that was it. Oh, I know Our Lady was helping me. In essence, it was a calculated decision. Put my kids in the cute little catholic school and it was history.

[USER]
auparavant
[/USER]

Thanks for your answer. I applaud you for your efforts. 3 times and you never gave up!.
As support to my then 22yr God daughter, I attended RCIA with her and gained a ton of knowledge there. We had bible studies every Wednesday and class every Friday for 1 yr and I faithfully attended all of them. It was a great refresher for my faith.

 

[Galadriel]

This is a little bit of a sticking point for me: why do you have to go to confession for mortal sins? Why can't those sins be absolved by simply asking God for forgiveness or the Confetior at mass? I know you have to be in a state of grace to take communion but why do you need confession to be in a state of grace?

Mortal sin deprives your soul of sanctifying grace. An Act of Perfect Contrition can restore it, however in order to partake in Eucharist you must also make a sacramental confession.

Sometimes we die before making a sacramental confession, but an Act of Perfect Contrition would restore sanctifying grace. Here's a very good explanation of it below...

From the Confession Manual (Tan Books):

Perfect Contrition



Perfect contrition is sorrow which proceeds from a pure or perfect love of God, who is infinitely good and perfect in Himself and deserving of all our love. It is sorrow for sin because sin displeases God. Our Lord said: “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.” (Matt. 22:37). These words contain the essence of perfect contrition, for as the Council of Trent declares, “Perfect contrition is that which is conceived out of a motive of charity, namely, the love of God as He is in Himself, or on account of His goodness.”



Effects of Perfect Contrition


Perfect contrition immediately cleanses the soul from all guilt of sin and reconciles it to God, even apart from the Sacrament of Penance. Perfect contrition always includes at least an implicit desire and intention to receive the Sacrament of Penance, and the obligation to confess all mortal sins still remains, even after one has made an act or acts of perfect contrition. One should note well that if one has committed a mortal sin, perfect contrition alone without the Sacrament of Penance is not sufficient before receiving Holy Communion. The person must first go to Sacramental Confession; otherwise, he commits a mortal sin of sacrilege.
Perfect contrition is necessary as a means of salvation for dying sinners (in the state of mortal sin) who have not received and cannot receive the Sacrament of Baptism (*Salvation under these circumstances presumes the gift of faith and Baptism of Desire. —Publisher, 2000) and for dying sinners who, though baptized, cannot receive the Sacrament of Penance. Perfect contrition is the last and only key to Heaven for sinners at the hour of death (be they Catholic or non-Catholic) who cannot have recourse to the keys of mercy entrusted by God to His priests in the Sacraments of Penance and Extreme Unction.

----------------------
However, not going to Confession shouldn't be the norm. Since it is a sacrament, it is a visible sign of God's grace. The priest represents Christ and his audible absolution are the visible signs of God's forgiveness and grace.

Here are some of the graces wrought through sacramental confession:

"It restores past merits, which are lost by even a single mortal sin. It renders the soul capable again of performing acts meritorious of an eternal reward, which is impossible while it is in the state of mortal sin. It confers sacramental graces, that is, powerful supernatural helps to avoid sin in the future, and to persevere in the service of God. It gives a claim to the special graces the soul needs in order to lead a God-pleasing life.
Finally, it checks sinful passions and inclinations to evil." (Confession Manual)

 

[JudithO]

BTW.. A book that really helped me when I had a lot of "why do we do this" questions is called Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths... I recommend it and have given it out too...

 

[Galadriel]

Re: Why Did You Convert?

I LOVE Fr. Barron!

In high school I would hang out with my (Catholic) best friend. I would start asking her questions because I knew nothing about Catholicism and thought it was just weird . She invited me to Mass, etc. and I started reading Catholic books from the library. One book in particular inspired me, "Modern Saints" by Ann Ball. It had a collection of saints' lives from the 20th century with their pictures included, and I was just awed by the holiness, the miracles, people like Padre Pio, and especially St. Bernadette the visionary of Lourdes.

She died in 1879 yet here she is today:

I went to my friend one day and told her that I wanted to become a Catholic. She introduced me to the religious education teacher at the parish and I took RCIA classes. At 17, right before I left for college, I was baptized, confirmed, and received first communion.

I attended a private Protestant university for college, so I definitely got a lot of challenges from hardcore Protestants (some of whom were graduate seminary students). It REALLY sharpened my faith and my study of Church history, theology, etc. My closest friends were non-denominational Christians and Anglicans . There are at least two guys I know of who ended up converting to Catholicism by the time I graduated.

I LOVE the Church and the Faith, and I'm so glad God led me here.

Question for the Converts:

Why did you convert to Catholicism?

As a cradle Catholic, I took a lot of things in the church for granted. My faith has tremendously grown in the last 10 years mainly because of influences from converts. Their dedication and enthusiasm has been such a blessing to me and helped me strength my faith.

Here are some of the Converts who are such an inspiration to me. I’ve read their books, followed on FB, their websites and heard their messages on TV.

Dr. Scott Hahn-----Presbyterian Minister. Converted in 1986.
www.scotthahn.com/ - he (and his wife) is great public speaker and writer.

Richard L Lane. Former Lutheran. Converted in 2003.
http://www.qorban.net/ - one of the best known Black Catholic Evangelists. Heard the pleasure of hearing evangelize and he can preach!


Marcus Grodi ----- Former Protestant Minister.
http://www.marcusgrodi.com/ - he is the host of “The journey Home” on EWTN where he talks to converts and their conversion.



Some of my favourite places for inspiration, learning and truth are http://www.uCatholic.com/apologetics and
www.wordonfire.com – Fr. Robert Barron is always on point and has great spiritual knowledge

I have a God daughter who at 22 converted from Islam to Catholicism. Also my niece (35yrs) will become one on Easter Virgil (mass) when she receives her first Holy Communion and Confirmation.

 

[Galadriel]

BTW.. A book that really helped me when I had a lot of "why do we do this" questions is called Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths... I recommend it and have given it out too...

Thanks for the recommendation judy4all . It sounds like something I would love to pick up and start reading!

 

[Galadriel]

Ok, so the St. Bernadette pic got me inspired to post a few more:

Saint Josephine Bakhita! I love this woman! She's also one of the Incorruptibles . She cared for orphan children (Italy) and taught them about God.

My patron saint, Therese the Little Flower--she said "I want to spend my Heaven doing good upon earth." Ask her to pray for you. There are even non-Catholics who ask for her prayers.

Saint Padre Pio (another Incorruptible). He bore the Stigmata, if you went to Confession he'd be able to tell you everything you did, had visions, etc. and was a very holy priest.

Saint Maximilian Kolbe (who I mentioned earlier). He hid Jews during the Nazi occupation of Poland and was thrown into a concentration camp. When one of the prisoners ran off and disappeared one day, the Nazis chose ten men to execute in order to deter any further escapes. Upon hearing a man cry, "My wife...my children...what will I do?" Max asked to take his place and explained "I am a priest. I am alone." They injected Max with carbolic acid. They man whose place he took ended up surviving the concentration camp and died in the 1990's. Max once said, "Still, I am ready to suffer more for Christ."

I just love Gabriel Possenti because a bunch of criminals were setting his town on fire and looting, and he went down from his monastery to confront them. He saw the raiders dragging a girl who was crying for help...

Gabriel: Let her go

Raiders: What you say?

Gabriel: (pulls out a gun) Let her go.

Raiders: Whatever, monk...

Gabriel: **shoots a lizard with a single shot**

Raiders: (they let the girl go)

Gabriel: Now put out the fire you caused, and get out of my town.

Raiders: (they put out the fire and are marched out of town by gunpoint)

He's the patron saint of gun owners

 

[Galadriel]

I understand a little better, thanks for taking the time to clarify . I agree that you can still be a good Catholic and be saved without asking for saints' prayers, but I definitely see it as a gift and source of great help in this journey while on earth. I also believe in asking God directly for forgiveness, and in praying to Him and growing in love and reverence for Him (otherwise, how can we have Contrition? And are we not supposed to speak with Jesus when we take Eucharist?).

I guess I see it in terms of God providing a great treasure of spiritual help and blessings along the way in this valley of tears--and why not make use of these gifts and sources of help?

^^Distracts.. is the wrong word... cos it implies that it takes away from Christ... So I'm sorry I used that word as that is not what I meant...

I don't think my post is contradictory.... E.g... I can ask a Saint to intercede on my behalf OR I, with the help of the Holy Spirit that dwells in me can go directly to Christ and ask for forgiveness myself.... While there is nothing wrong with the former, I do not need to do it when I can just do the latter. There is a different level of humility, trust, and accountability when you go directly to someone you hurt to ask for forgiveness vs asking someone to intercede on your behalf. I believe that the level of friendship and trust (and maybe it is psychological) that you develop when you always go to Christ directly for praise, forgiveness, and favors, is different from that you develop by going thru intercessors and that over time will help grow stronger and much closer to Christ cos you have the confidence to approach him knowing that he will listen. For me, intercessory prayers instilled fear for the lord in me... cos I was so afraid to go to him directly, and instead chose to go thru another route.

This is just an example where I find it good, but unnecessary....

 

[auparavant]

[USER]
auparavant
[/USER]

Thanks for your answer. I applaud you for your efforts. 3 times and you never gave up!.
As support to my then 22yr God daughter, I attended RCIA with her and gained a ton of knowledge there. We had bible studies every Wednesday and class every Friday for 1 yr and I faithfully attended all of them. It was a great refresher for my faith.

Rsgal

Oh no, that's how I ended up 3 times AHAHA. I also walked away 2 years into my conversion and returned to the synagogue. I tried to ignore Jesus but in the end, it didn't work. I now know how to see Him and place Him and to those Jews who think I'm a traitor, I don't care. I stand. If you notice as well, I'm not one to kiss the hands of christians either, especially where there has been wrong done in history. I just wanna the truth.

 

[Belle Du Jour]

I just love Gabriel Possenti because a bunch of criminals were setting his town on fire and looting, and he went down from his monastery to confront them. He saw the raiders dragging a girl who was crying for help...

Gabriel: Let her go

Raiders: What you say?

Gabriel: (pulls out a gun) Let her go.

Raiders: Whatever, monk...

Gabriel: **shoots a lizard with a single shot**

Raiders: (they let the girl go)

Gabriel: Now put out the fire you caused, and get out of my town.

Raiders: (they put out the fire and are marched out of town by gunpoint)

He's the patron saint of gun owners

Funny story. But wait, why was there a gun in the monastery? LOL

 

[Belle Du Jour]

Re: Why Did You Convert?

She died in 1879 yet here she is today:

I find the incorruptible thing very fascinating

 

[Belle Du Jour]

Who's your confirmation saint and why did you pick him/her?

 

[Galadriel]

Who's your confirmation saint and why did you pick him/her?

My confirmation saint is Therese. I chose her because I read Story of a Soul and loved it. I consider myself a student of the "Little Way."

I also have a great love and appreciation for the Carmelite Order. I donate $$$ to the Carmelites, read the works of Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross, and I just started wearing the Brown Scapular.

 

[auparavant]

Who's your confirmation saint and why did you pick him/her?

My confirmation saint is the BVM because it's through her intercession that I'm in the Church. She's protected me several times from harm and continues to do so. I love her very much because she leads us to Jesus. Jesus is a Jewish boy and you know how a Jewish boy loves his momma!

 

[Belle Du Jour]

My confirmation saint is Therese. I chose her because I read Story of a Soul and loved it. I consider myself a student of the "Little Way."

I also have a great love and appreciation for the Carmelite Order. I donate $$$ to the Carmelites, read the works of Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross, and I just started wearing the Brown Scapular.

I haven't read Story of a Soul but I have heard a lot about St. Therese. She's a popular saint I also like St. Teresa of the Andes and I think she was a Carmelite as well. So sad that a lot of these women died so young though.

 

[Rsgal]

Who's your confirmation saint and why did you pick him/her?

St. Elizabeth (Elisabeth), Cousin to the Blessed Mother and mother to John the Baptist.

I was in 7th grade when I received my confirmation and decided to chose Elizabeth as it was an easy name to write, pronunce and was common. I have one of the most unique first names out there and thus wanted something easy.