Belle Du Jour
Well-Known Member
Anyone veil or wear a head cover for Mass?
The Official Catholic Thread
- Thread starter Galadriel
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auparavant
New Member
Lots of people mistakenly think that the doctrine of immaculate conception refers to Jesus when it refers to the state of grace that G-d placed Mary into.
auparavant
New Member
Only when I go Tridentine.
Galadriel
Well-Known Member
What are some of your favorite "easy to read" books about the faith? I've heard Catholicism for Dummiesis actually a good read lol.
Anything by Peter Kreeft is good
.
Galadriel
Well-Known Member
For traditional Latin (or Tridentine) Mass. I see a few ladies wearing chapel veils during regular Mass, Maybe I will too!
blazingthru
Well-Known Member
Re: THE APOSTLE'S CREED IN THE BIBLE.
This is new, My hymn always said the HOLY Catholic Church as does the Baptist Church and Methodist. I been reading this creed every Sunday for 40 years. I have never seen it like this before with Church Universal. Also my apologies, I did not read all the post yet. I don't read Creeds now, its still in my memory though.
This is new, My hymn always said the HOLY Catholic Church as does the Baptist Church and Methodist. I been reading this creed every Sunday for 40 years. I have never seen it like this before with Church Universal. Also my apologies, I did not read all the post yet. I don't read Creeds now, its still in my memory though.
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Galadriel
Well-Known Member
Re: THE APOSTLE'S CREED IN THE BIBLE.
Although Catholic means universal, yes the Creed recited in the Church says "Catholic Church" or "One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church."
Although Catholic means universal, yes the Creed recited in the Church says "Catholic Church" or "One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church."
Belle Du Jour
Well-Known Member
Question: do novenas really work
Galadriel
Well-Known Member
Question: do novenas really work
Yes! Pray with confidence.
My two favorites are the "Novena to the Holy Trinity to obtain graces through the intercession of St. Therese" and the "Divine Mercy" novena (start it on Good Friday).
auparavant
New Member
I'm presently doing a St. Jude prayer as well as sending prayers directly to the Kotel (Western Wall). I should give alms this weekend in addition. Thinking about a Novena to the H-ly Trinity.
auparavant
New Member
Question: Why did G-d use the ravens to give food to Eliahu/Elisha? Aren't they considered ominous birds? What is the significance of G-d using the raven?
Rsgal
Well-Known Member
What are some of your favorite "easy to read" books about the faith? I've heard Catholicism for Dummies
The Lamb's Supper: The Mass as Heaven on Earth by Dr. Scott Hahn. He has great books.
He was ordained in 1982 in the Presbyterian Church and converted into the Catholic Church in 1986.
I heard him speak on EWTN and was hooked on him and his wife.
Galadriel
Well-Known Member
Hmm, this would be something interesting to look up.
SouthernStunner
My 13yr old Men
I have a question and this is not for just Catholics but anyone. I am Catholic and was raised Roman Catholic and went to an all girl Catholic High School. Anyway why do people say G_d or Holy Spi_it?
No offense to those that do buy why?
No offense to those that do buy why?
JeterCrazed
New Member
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Galadriel
Well-Known Member
JeterCrazed
New Member
Galadriel said:I see you
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auparavant
New Member
I do cuz I worshipped at synagogue first, long before I converted to the RCC. It's just a Jewish thing. Just ignore it...it'll take longer to explain why lol.
I have something that has been in my heart might stir up some trouble (I sincerely hope it doesn't)... I am a Roman Catholic BTW.. but I want to hear your thoughts.
I pray that God forgives me if any of my thoughts below are sinful because I certainly do not mean them to be so.
I think that the way we worship, the order of the mass etc... is mostly based on how things have been done historically and it dates back to the original history of the church which came from a Jewish culture. I mean, solemn hymns, quiet and recited prayers are one way to praise God, and while there is absolutely nothing wrong with them, I find them foreign to my culture and preference. I like to sing out loud, dance, clap and pray mostly in my own words to God during mass... I don't believe the gentiles worshiped in the same way as the Jews even though they are equal in the eyes of God.
A lot of things we do... live Novena's, prayers to saints, and saying the rosary, confession.... while I find them really nice to do, and certainly understand why we do them (with biblical reasons)... I find them unnecessary for bringing me closer to Christ and my salvation. Doing these things my whole life put Christ in a place where I kept trying to reach, constantly... when in reality Christ has always been right here with me in the spirit and I could develop a personal relationship of love, trust and personal accountability to him.
Maybe this only relates to the parishes I've attended.... but i've spent my whole life going to mass and only started growing as a Christian when I started to read the bible for myself, ask questions, ask God for help, engage with other Christian communities etc... I feel like I've just been going for mass every Sunday out of habit instead of that true excitement of going to a place where I can worship God in joy (except for the Eucharist).
I hope no one is offended and I pray this is not a sin to think like this... But I want to know what your thoughts are on these things... While the Catholic church is home for me and my family, I feel more culturally in place and spiritually uplifted when I go to a a few other non-catholic churches.
I pray that God forgives me if any of my thoughts below are sinful because I certainly do not mean them to be so.
I think that the way we worship, the order of the mass etc... is mostly based on how things have been done historically and it dates back to the original history of the church which came from a Jewish culture. I mean, solemn hymns, quiet and recited prayers are one way to praise God, and while there is absolutely nothing wrong with them, I find them foreign to my culture and preference. I like to sing out loud, dance, clap and pray mostly in my own words to God during mass... I don't believe the gentiles worshiped in the same way as the Jews even though they are equal in the eyes of God.
A lot of things we do... live Novena's, prayers to saints, and saying the rosary, confession.... while I find them really nice to do, and certainly understand why we do them (with biblical reasons)... I find them unnecessary for bringing me closer to Christ and my salvation. Doing these things my whole life put Christ in a place where I kept trying to reach, constantly... when in reality Christ has always been right here with me in the spirit and I could develop a personal relationship of love, trust and personal accountability to him.
Maybe this only relates to the parishes I've attended.... but i've spent my whole life going to mass and only started growing as a Christian when I started to read the bible for myself, ask questions, ask God for help, engage with other Christian communities etc... I feel like I've just been going for mass every Sunday out of habit instead of that true excitement of going to a place where I can worship God in joy (except for the Eucharist).
I hope no one is offended and I pray this is not a sin to think like this... But I want to know what your thoughts are on these things... While the Catholic church is home for me and my family, I feel more culturally in place and spiritually uplifted when I go to a a few other non-catholic churches.
auparavant
New Member
Great question. G-d allows for our individuality. Here's a Roman Catholic Mass:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3nV83QaV94&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL72B4FD5331DAF847
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD4_...PL72B4FD5331DAF847&lf=results_main&playnext=2
As for sacramentals,
http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com..._their_role_in_Catholic_Sacramental_Life.html
So, the blessings are the actual sacramentals that mirror in some way the sacraments of the Church and these blessings go hand-in-hand with a sacred sign of some sort and represent, through the Church's intercession, benefits or graces G-d wishes to bestow on us...is my understanding.
"Structure, Purpose and Efficacy: The first purpose of the sacramentals is to prepare for and extend the grace of the sacraments. In the sacraments, it is Christ himself who is acting and so grace is objectively conferred ex opere operato, that is, by virtue of the performing of the rite by a valid minister acting as Christ’s instrument. As acts of the Church, the sacramentals may also be occasions for grace ex opere operantis ecclesiae, that is, by virtue of the intercession of the Church. They are not efficacious in the same way nor to the same degree as the sacraments, but are more powerful than the private intercession of Christians precisely because they represent and make present the intercession of the entire Church.
The direct relationship between some sacra*men*tals and a particular sacrament are easy to see: the blessing of meals is connected to the Euch*arist, the blessing of homes relates to Matrimony, while the sprinkling of Holy Water recalls bap*tism. The second purpose of sacramentals is the sanctification of every occasion of life. Hence the Book of Blessings contains blessings of work places, tools, schools, athletic events, etc. There are generally two parts to any liturgy of sacramental blessing: 1) proclamation of the Word of God through Scripture readings and an optional homily and 2) praise of God’s goodness followed by petition for his help and protection (BB 20). Since it is in Christ and especially through his death and resurrection that God pours out his blessings upon us, virtually all the sac*ra*mentals contain the name of Jesus and the sign of the cross (Eph 1:3; SC 61, CCC 1671). In requiring that proclamation of God’s Word never be omitted from the celebration of the sacra*men*tals, the Church wishes to make clear that these rites depend on and are intended to strengthen faith. Superstition, the idea that certain rituals properly performed automatically obtain certain benefits from God (BB 10, 18, 23, 27) is alien to this perspective of faith and must never be confused with the truly Catholic use of the sacramentals. The Church’s intercession, made present by the sacra*mentals, can bear fruit only in the lives of those who are properly disposed (SC 11 cited in BB 15; SC 61)."
Galadriel
Well-Known Member
I've seen different styles of worship at different Masses, so it may just be a matter of finding the Catholic community that has a Mass that incorporates some of those elements. There are charismatic Catholics who like to worship in a certain way, and I've attended a predominately African-American Catholic parish where we used a "Traditional African Hymnal" and sang songs from that. Also, if you attend Mass w/ a community from a different culture, they each have their own style.
I believe there is a "core" to the Mass of Scripture and Liturgy that is our foundation, and it's all right for us to express our joy and love in worship. At the same time, ultimately the focal point is (and should be) the liturgy of the Eucharist, where Christ is present in the consecrated bread and wine. Remember that Mass is prayer, and through it Christ's eternal sacrifice is made present and God rains down blessings upon us. Instead of making yourself (and I mean this in general) the focal point of worship, shouldn't it be God?
Why wouldn't they? The Rosary is meditation and prayer derived from Scripture centering on the lives of Jesus and Mary. There are many graces attached to the Rosary. The Blessed Virgin even made 15 promises to those who pray the Rosary with devotion.
Confession is a sacrament, and necessary, especially if you've committed a mortal sin. Confession and absolution should bring you closer to Christ and give you grace.
Well this may be the crux of the issue--you've been doing things "out of habit" but without inner-transformation or depth. Then you go on to say you obtain that same depth through reading Scripture and a relationship with Christ, and oddly separate it from your Catholic faith. (I hope this doesn't come across as offensive, but this is my observation based on your words)
Perhaps there would be more of a reconciliation of this predicament if you didn't think the two were separate to begin with.
Our Church put together the Bible--we definitely love Scripture, and if you're interested in studying/reading it why don't you go to a Bible study at your local parish?
Christ is the center of our faith, therefore we should strive to love Him, honor Him, and worship Him always. The saints are wonderful examples of people who grew close to Christ while here on earth.
Just think of St. Therese the Little Flower, who loved Christ every moment of her life and dedicated herself completely to Him. Even though she died at the age of 24, her insight into Scripture and her beautiful relationship with Christ made her a well-loved Saint--and a Doctor of the Church.
St. Maximilian Kolbe, who stood for the truth of Christ and the Gospel of Peace in the face of the Nazis, who preached and taught about Christ even inside a concentration camp and went to his execution with complete confidence in Our Lord. Did he have less of a relationship with Christ? Was he less knowledgeable about Jesus or the Bible?
I encourage you, in addition to Scripture reading, to read the Catechism, pray the Rosary, and read about the lives of the saints. Our Blessed Mother will always point you toward her Son, as will the saints and the sacraments.
^ Galadriel I agree.. I mostly did things out of habit until I got older ....
Did I separate my reading scripture and learning from the Catholic Church? In the context of my post... Yes... Simply because I believe that a church (regardless of what/where it is) can only help and encourage you to grow a relationship with Christ that already exists... If you haven't taken time to establish that relationship, then no Church in the world can help you. People in a church? Maybe.... But my family and those I grew up around really emphasized on things that I need to be doing (with good reason) and not on an emphasis that I need to take my time to establish a personal relationship with Christ.... (No I do not find your post offensive)
No... I didn't say (or imply) the Church doesn't love Scripture... As a matter of fact, I'm yet to see any church in the world that reads actual on a daily basis scripture as we do. Between the first, second, responsorial, gospel readings, and the rest of the mass... The bible is everywhere. I simply meant that even though I heard these passages .. over and over again, I was never really encouraged to go out and read/understand for myself... I didn't even know so much of the mass was from the bible until I started asking questions and studying on my own.
I think you misunderstood my post... I wasn't trying to undermine the efficacy of the church (I wouldn't be catholic if I felt it wasn't Christ centered)...
My point was.. regardless of what denomination we belong to.. We all have one goal... to be saved at the end.... Christ won't ask what denomination you identify with.
As unique individuals, a one-size fits all approach IMO is impractical... Hence why I can identify with some things.. and others I don't.
To me... as salvation is the goal, it should always always be the focus of every Christian and church.... other distractions, the reasons why denominations exist today, rules, regulations and rituals, even though they have good intentions mostly serve to distract from the goal.
Tis' all.
Did I separate my reading scripture and learning from the Catholic Church? In the context of my post... Yes... Simply because I believe that a church (regardless of what/where it is) can only help and encourage you to grow a relationship with Christ that already exists... If you haven't taken time to establish that relationship, then no Church in the world can help you. People in a church? Maybe.... But my family and those I grew up around really emphasized on things that I need to be doing (with good reason) and not on an emphasis that I need to take my time to establish a personal relationship with Christ.... (No I do not find your post offensive)
No... I didn't say (or imply) the Church doesn't love Scripture... As a matter of fact, I'm yet to see any church in the world that reads actual on a daily basis scripture as we do. Between the first, second, responsorial, gospel readings, and the rest of the mass... The bible is everywhere. I simply meant that even though I heard these passages .. over and over again, I was never really encouraged to go out and read/understand for myself... I didn't even know so much of the mass was from the bible until I started asking questions and studying on my own.
I think you misunderstood my post... I wasn't trying to undermine the efficacy of the church (I wouldn't be catholic if I felt it wasn't Christ centered)...
My point was.. regardless of what denomination we belong to.. We all have one goal... to be saved at the end.... Christ won't ask what denomination you identify with.
As unique individuals, a one-size fits all approach IMO is impractical... Hence why I can identify with some things.. and others I don't.
To me... as salvation is the goal, it should always always be the focus of every Christian and church.... other distractions, the reasons why denominations exist today, rules, regulations and rituals, even though they have good intentions mostly serve to distract from the goal.
Tis' all.
ktykaty
Well-Known Member
judy4all,
Please don't take my comments for you. I don't want to offend. i speak in general.
Mass is the sacrament of communion. Its purpose is to consolidate our union to Christ and to bring us together as one body and one Church. The codification of mass is necessary to make sure that all other the world the sacrament is the same. Mass is not the place to clap, jump, pray in your own words. There is a place and a moment for everything.
If one wants to clap, pray and dance to the Lord, there are prayer groups for that. The RCC is diverse enough so that anyone can find a prayer group that suits them.
The RCC encourages us to have a personal one and one relationship with Jesus. We cannot force people to read their bible and get to know God for themselves but we do give them the necessary tools (mass, reconciliation, novenas, prayers, ...) to experience the love of God. There's a point where it is up to each and every individual to do what is needed to have a personal relationship with God.
HTH.
Sorry for the typo. I'm on my phone.
Please don't take my comments for you. I don't want to offend. i speak in general.
Mass is the sacrament of communion. Its purpose is to consolidate our union to Christ and to bring us together as one body and one Church. The codification of mass is necessary to make sure that all other the world the sacrament is the same. Mass is not the place to clap, jump, pray in your own words. There is a place and a moment for everything.
If one wants to clap, pray and dance to the Lord, there are prayer groups for that. The RCC is diverse enough so that anyone can find a prayer group that suits them.
The RCC encourages us to have a personal one and one relationship with Jesus. We cannot force people to read their bible and get to know God for themselves but we do give them the necessary tools (mass, reconciliation, novenas, prayers, ...) to experience the love of God. There's a point where it is up to each and every individual to do what is needed to have a personal relationship with God.
HTH.
Sorry for the typo. I'm on my phone.
auparavant
New Member
Actually, the reason there are denominations are that many didn't like the rules handed down directly by Christ. It happens in Judaism as well. We know that the rituals we have are sacred rituals pointing to the communion with Christ. They are holy tradition handed down by G-d. Interesting to note, in the manner and succession of Judaism and the handing of the written law as well as the oral law to Moses by G-d, we have the apostolic traditions which we guard. Jesus didn't change anything of the Torah nor the writings.
^^^Actually the only people given rules directly by God were the Jews... they are the only ones that have seen God (via Moses). I mean from God the Father... not the Son or Spirit.
Can you imagine what will happen if someone came today and told you that they are God?? That's what Christ did.. they had the rules, rituals, and proof of God himself.. and there comes Christ.. eating with the prostitues and tax collectors.. forgiving sins... being blasphemious by human standards... we all. Know how this story ends... but my point is... history and rules handed down from even the most reliable sources (in their case God) doesnt always mean efficacy.... because of human intervention those rules have been abused... remember St. Paul... the reason he murdered christians is because he ws following the law handed down.. remember he was a pharasee before he encountered christ.
And Christ changed a lot... we went from having all these rules and rituals... to having one simple one... love one another and everything else will follow.
Now this is not saying the church's teachings are not effective... it is simply saying that while history and rules are important.... they are not alwys perfect..
Can you imagine what will happen if someone came today and told you that they are God?? That's what Christ did.. they had the rules, rituals, and proof of God himself.. and there comes Christ.. eating with the prostitues and tax collectors.. forgiving sins... being blasphemious by human standards... we all. Know how this story ends... but my point is... history and rules handed down from even the most reliable sources (in their case God) doesnt always mean efficacy.... because of human intervention those rules have been abused... remember St. Paul... the reason he murdered christians is because he ws following the law handed down.. remember he was a pharasee before he encountered christ.
And Christ changed a lot... we went from having all these rules and rituals... to having one simple one... love one another and everything else will follow.
Now this is not saying the church's teachings are not effective... it is simply saying that while history and rules are important.... they are not alwys perfect..
auparavant
New Member
Hebrew here checking in, though I converted.
However, that's why I'm pointing to the universal church as the succession to judaism. He said, and I quote:<< Matthew 5 >>
New International Version 1984
16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.
The Fulfillment of the Law
17“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
St. Paul wasn't following the law because there is none to kill christians. Believe me, it's not part of the 613 mitzvot. It was his interpretation of what heresy is...and he himself was a murderor - not a defender of the faith. I think that what we all are trying to get you to see, there is the core, the base, the truth within...the sacramentals are sacred signs of the spiritual sacraments and graces bestowed. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater because it's hard to appreciate what has become the mundane. Everyone goes through a lack of faith to various degrees. It's when you find that spark that you find even more life within.
auparavant
New Member
I've broken these posts up. The Passover:
<< Matthew 26 >>
New International Version 1984
26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
27Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of theb covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father’s kingdom.”
30When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.
<< 1 Corinthians 11 >>
New International Version 1984
24and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Eucharistic Prayer I
We come to your, Father, with praise and thanksgiving, through Jesus Christ your Son. Through him we ask you to accept and bless these gifts we offer you in sacrifice. We offer them for your holy catholic Church, watch over it, Lord, and guide it; grant it peace and unity throughout the world. We offer them for John Paul our Pope, for {name of Bishop in your diocese} our bishop, and for all who hold and teach the catholic faith that comes to us from the apostles.
Remember, Lord, your people, especially those for whom we now pray, {names}. Remember all of us gathered here before you. You know how firmly we believe in you and dedicate ourselves to you. We offer you this sacrifice of praise for ourselves and those who are dear to us. We pray to you, our living and true God, for our well-being and redemption.
In union with the whole Church we honor Mary, the ever-virgin mother of Jesus Christ our Lord and God. We honor Joseph, her husband, the apostles and martyrs Peter and Paul, Andrew [James, John, Thomas, James, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Simon and Jude; we honor Linus, Cletus, Clement, Sixtus, Cornelius, Cyprian, Lawrence, Chrysogonus, John and Paul, Cosmas and Damian] and all the saints. May their merits and prayers gain us your constant help and protection. [Through Christ our Lord. Amen.]
Father, accept this offering from your whole family. Grant us your peace in this life, save us from final damnation, and count us among those you have chosen. [Through Christ our Lord. Amen.]
Bless and approve our offering; make it acceptable to you, and offering in spirit and in truth. Let is become for us the body and blood of Jesus Christ, your only Son, our Lord.
The day before he suffered he took break in his sacred hands and looking up to heaven, to you, his almighty Father, he gave you thanks and praise. He broke the bread, gave it to his disciples, and said: Take this, all of you, and eat it: this is my body which will be given up for you.
When supper was ended, he took the cup. Again he gave you thanks and praise, gave the cup to his disciples, and said: Take this, all of you, and drink from it: this is the cup of my blood, the blood of the new and everlasting covenant. It will be shed for you and for all so that sins may be forgiven. Do this in memory of me.
Let us proclaim the mystery of faith.
-------------------------------------
It's right there. For many people, if they do not know the Jewish roots of their faith, they are truly missing the deepest meaning of the order of the mass...of the christian faith.
^^ I didn't mean that it is actually written to kill Christians.. sorry if my post sounded like that... i meant that St. Paul did the things he did in the name of the law.. thanks for clarifying tho.
Again.. i think u guys r interpreting my post to mean that im losing my faith in Christ or thr Church... im simply saying that ther r things (like any church - i only call the RCC cos thats where I go) that IN MY OPINION, although well intended, serve to shift focus from the end goal and building a relationship with christ. I appreciate all Y'alls comments btw even tho we may not agree...
Again.. i think u guys r interpreting my post to mean that im losing my faith in Christ or thr Church... im simply saying that ther r things (like any church - i only call the RCC cos thats where I go) that IN MY OPINION, although well intended, serve to shift focus from the end goal and building a relationship with christ. I appreciate all Y'alls comments btw even tho we may not agree...
