The mother that killed her children for being "mouthy"
- Thread starter SND411
- Start date
Baby, this was entirely evil and God is not in it; it is purely a work of the devil. There are too many 'living' ways to deal with a mouthy child, I don't care how big or grown they may think they are.
This woman has a substance abuse issue, along with mental instability. No one in their right mind, saved or unsaved would kill their children. The Word of God speaks more of 'protecting' children; for did not Jesus say that it was better to have a millstone tied about one's neck and thrown into the sea, then to harm any of 'these' little ones.
Children are an inheritance and God entrusts us to care for them. I'm even more inclined to say that we are not to even give children corporal punishment, in the sense that the Word of God says to spare the rod, spoil the child... instead of beating a child, the rod (as in Psalm 23) was used to 'comfort', not to harm.
Biblically there is no justification for what this woman did to these children. The very fact that 'I' and many other parents who have adult children is proof enough, for both of my children were indeed mouthy.... yet they live... and they live for Jesus.
SND411
A True Soldier Never Dies
I mean, I think we all understand that in this particular circumstance the "mother" was mentally ill and everything. So let's for the time being ignore this specific incident.
What about the Bible stating that it is just for parents to kill their children if they disobey. What do you think about this particular commandment in the Old Testament?
SND, the circumstances ARE the issue here. No one in their right mind would kill their children. And there is still no scriptural justification for it. When you kill a child, YOU sentence yourself to death. Case closed.
Let's use common sense here which is indeed Biblical. It is a fact that this woman DID NOT kill her children based upon scripture, she killed them out pure lunacy and demonic influence. Neither God nor any court of law upon this earth will condone this act of senseless brutal murder... Period!
In studying the OT laws, judgment then was 'instant' and quite severe. We are now under grace and under such grace, we are not subject to such laws of violence.
Gal 3:23-25 clearly says
"Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.
Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.
Please don't look into this situation and make it something that it is not. The woman is WRONG in both the eyes of God and the law upon this earth. There are no scriptural defences here.
Guitarhero
New Member
You've got to be kidding, right? How about the scripture:
Romans 13Obey the Government
1Every person should obey the government in power. No government would exist if it hadn’t been established by God. The governments which exist have been put in place by God. 2Therefore, whoever resists the government opposes what God has established. Those who resist will bring punishment on themselves. 3People who do what is right don’t have to be afraid of the government. But people who do what is wrong should be afraid of it. Would you like to live without being afraid of the government? Do what is right, and it will praise you. 4The government is God’s servant working for your good.
But if you do what is wrong, you should be afraid. The government has the right to carry out the death sentence. It is God’s servant, an avenger to execute God’s anger on anyone who does what is wrong. 5Therefore, it is necessary for you to obey, not only because you’re afraid of God’s anger but also because of your own conscience.
6That is also why you pay your taxes. People in the government are God’s servants while they do the work he has given them. 7Pay everyone whatever you owe them. If you owe taxes, pay them. If you owe tolls, pay them. If you owe someone respect, respect that person. If you owe someone honor, honor that person.
Exodus 20:13
13Thou shalt not kill.
aribell
formerly nicola.kirwan
I don't think that commandment pertains to being "mouthy."
It's very important to take these things in context. The picture of the parents here is not one of "snapping" on a child for having a bad attitude. Firstly, the son mentioned here is not a child, as the bold indicates ("drunkard"). Moreover, the son in the biblical passage clearly had a longtime and persistent pattern of rebellious, disrepute living. The purpose of the commandment was not punishment for a bad attitude towards one's parents, but rather for order and purity within Israel; like the commands to stone fornicators.
After reading that story, I see that the woman was clearly off-kilter and acted out of her own wounded mental state. Such a tragedy. I don't think the Bible verse applies at all.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 said:
It's very important to take these things in context. The picture of the parents here is not one of "snapping" on a child for having a bad attitude. Firstly, the son mentioned here is not a child, as the bold indicates ("drunkard"). Moreover, the son in the biblical passage clearly had a longtime and persistent pattern of rebellious, disrepute living. The purpose of the commandment was not punishment for a bad attitude towards one's parents, but rather for order and purity within Israel; like the commands to stone fornicators.
After reading that story, I see that the woman was clearly off-kilter and acted out of her own wounded mental state. Such a tragedy. I don't think the Bible verse applies at all.
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SND411
A True Soldier Never Dies
I don't think that commandment pertains to being "mouthy."
It's very important to take these things in context. The picture of the parents here is not one of "snapping" on a child for having a bad attitude. Firstly, the son mentioned here is not a child, as the bold indicates ("drunkard"). Moreover, the son in the biblical passage clearly had a longtime and persistent pattern of rebellious, disrepute living. The purpose of the commandment was not punishment for a bad attitude towards one's parents, but rather for order and purity within Israel; like the commands to stone fornicators.
After reading that story, I see that the woman was clearly off-kilter and acted out of her own wounded mental state. Such a tragedy. I don't think the Bible verse applies at all.
So did you think it was right to kill one's child because they were drunk/rebellious?
What about:
Exodus 21:15 “Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death."
aribell
formerly nicola.kirwan
Well, that's what the law was, so it was right. The punishments for sin in the Old Testament show us the gravity of those offenses, which leads us to the understanding of Christ taking the condemnation for us. It is no longer for me or anyone else to condemn someone to death because of their sins because Christ has already been condemned in their stead. A Christian parent will not kill a disobedient child, but rather will point him to Christ, teaching him to hide himself in Christ, so he won't be condemned for his sins when he stands before God.
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Laela
Sidestepping the "lynch mob"
Good Scripture, Volver...thanks for posting it.. the rest of it is critical, IMHO ...
8 Don’t be in debt to anyone, except the obligation to love each other. Whoever loves another person has fulfilled the Law.
9 The commandments, You shouldn’t commit adultery, you shouldn’t murder, you shouldn’t steal, you shouldn’t desire what others have,[a] and any other commandments, are all summed up in one word: You should love your neighbor as yourself.[b]
10 Love doesn’t do anything wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is what fulfills the Law.
The day is near
11 As you do all this, you know what time it is. The hour has already come for you to wake up from your sleep. Now our salvation is nearer than when we first had faith.
12 The night is almost over, and the day is near. So let’s get rid of the actions that belong to the darkness and put on the weapons of light.
13 Let’s behave appropriately as people who live in the day, not in partying and getting drunk, not in sleeping around and obscene behavior, not in fighting and obsession.
14 Instead, dress yourself with the Lord Jesus Christ, and don’t plan to indulge your selfish desires.
8 Don’t be in debt to anyone, except the obligation to love each other. Whoever loves another person has fulfilled the Law.
9 The commandments, You shouldn’t commit adultery, you shouldn’t murder, you shouldn’t steal, you shouldn’t desire what others have,[a] and any other commandments, are all summed up in one word: You should love your neighbor as yourself.[b]
10 Love doesn’t do anything wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is what fulfills the Law.
The day is near
11 As you do all this, you know what time it is. The hour has already come for you to wake up from your sleep. Now our salvation is nearer than when we first had faith.
12 The night is almost over, and the day is near. So let’s get rid of the actions that belong to the darkness and put on the weapons of light.
13 Let’s behave appropriately as people who live in the day, not in partying and getting drunk, not in sleeping around and obscene behavior, not in fighting and obsession.
14 Instead, dress yourself with the Lord Jesus Christ, and don’t plan to indulge your selfish desires.
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Poohbear
Fearfully Wonderfully Made
Hey! I'm just now seeing this thread after seeing another post about this in the Off Topic forum.
What do you guys think of this verse???
Leviticus 20:9 (King James Version)
9For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
SND411... is this the verse you are referring to in your initial post?
What do you guys think of this verse???
Leviticus 20:9 (King James Version)
9For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
SND411... is this the verse you are referring to in your initial post?
The answer is this...
Would YOU as a Christian, with the heart of the Lord Jesus Christ, kill your child based upon this scripture?
I would think not...
Guitarhero
New Member
If I didn't kill DD#1 and haven't laid hands on DD#2 no one else should.Ok, this is a serious matter but ITA agree with those I have thanked.
I know...I'm trying not to be irreverent, but there are a WHOLE lotta parents who are showing this story to their big-mouthed kids to kinda instill a little fear in them in hopes some of them are going to be terrified in the night, "L-rd, I'm so sorry for being an absolute jerk and I promise not to disrespect my parents again...so please, PLEASE, don't let my parents snap under stress." Forgive me y'all, but that did come to mind...not that the story is in anyway humorous at all. It's very tragic. But something in the title is just so.....
Guitarhero
New Member
That person was charged and brought before the court for sentence and if found guilty, the death was carried out by the authorities, not the parents.
EbonyHairedPrincess
New Member
Wow, . My heart goes out to anyone who is a parent and not close to God. It is hard parenting I can't even imagine parenting without having the Holy Spirit guiding you on how to parent properly.
I can't really speak on where she was spiritually but I do believe her actions are a good indicator that she was not hearing from God and did not have a supportive group of people around her. God bless everyone involved in this horrible tragedy.
God commanded us to be meek, to be peacemaker, to have loving kindness and to love others as we love ourselves. There is no way shooting your babies is being any of those things.
. My heart goes out to anyone who is a parent and not close to God. It is hard parenting I can't even imagine parenting without having the Holy Spirit guiding you on how to parent properly.I can't really speak on where she was spiritually but I do believe her actions are a good indicator that she was not hearing from God and did not have a supportive group of people around her. God bless everyone involved in this horrible tragedy.
God commanded us to be meek, to be peacemaker, to have loving kindness and to love others as we love ourselves. There is no way shooting your babies is being any of those things.
Wow,
I can't really speak on where she was spiritually but I do believe her actions are a good indicator that she was not hearing from God and did not have a supportive group of people around her. God bless everyone involved in this horrible tragedy.
God commanded us to be meek, to be peacemaker, to have loving kindness and to love others as we love ourselves. There is no way shooting your babies is being any of those things.
There it is right there... the answer.
Laela, may I just say 'Thank You' for putting this to rest.
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We can not be more righteous than THE Righteous.
Someone can not be punished under old penalties.
There has been a change : we can not just ignore this :
Is. 53 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished.
10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.
Prov. 10 12 Hatred stirs up conflict, but love covers over all wrongs.
Jn. 19 30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.”…
We are living in this time :
1Jn. 2 1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Acts 7 60 Then he(Stephen) fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.”…
Mat. 18 21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.
Let me write it again with Laela :
Rom. 13 8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Someone can not be punished under old penalties.
There has been a change : we can not just ignore this :
Is. 53 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished.
10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.
Prov. 10 12 Hatred stirs up conflict, but love covers over all wrongs.
Jn. 19 30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.”…
We are living in this time :
1Jn. 2 1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Acts 7 60 Then he(Stephen) fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.”…
Mat. 18 21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.
Let me write it again with Laela :
Rom. 13 8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Poohbear
Fearfully Wonderfully Made
The answer is this...
Would YOU as a Christian, with the heart of the Lord Jesus Christ, kill your child based upon this scripture?
I would think not...
No, if I had a child, I wouldn't have to think, I know I would not kill my child based on the scripture.
On point...
Another scripture came to mind from Galations 3 ...
That we are 'Heirs' to God's Promise (through the redempton of Jesus), through faith -- and no longer by the 'law'.
Galatians 3
1 ... O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
----------------
All I can say is thank you Lord Jesus...for your Grace and Mercy which follows us all the days of our lives.
Oh' but Grace...who loved and yet still loves us more... than the 'Law' which could not. :Rose:
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