@Galadriel
You are Catholic, some believe that you are not a true Christian.
You are a Jehovah witness, some believe that you are not a true Christian.
...
...
Again, not my business!
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The Christian Left...
- Thread starter SummerSolstice
- Start date
@Galadriel
You are Catholic, some believe that you are not a true Christian.
You are a Jehovah witness, some believe that you are not a true Christian.
...
...
Again, not my business!
Galadriel
Well-Known Member
Crown, I hope my tone isn't coming off as confrontational (that is not my intention). I understand that you're saying we can't judge anyone's soul (e.g., "He's going to Hell" or "He's in Hell"). However we can and should judge *outward* actions and words, especially when they contradict or deny what Christ and the Apostles have passed down to us.
The Christian Left can't have it both ways. They can't proclaim to believe in Jesus as Lord but also proclaim that He is not the only means of salvation and the Bible is not literal. They can't decry greed or wealth as sins, but say abortion and gay marriage aren't a big deal. They are picking and choosing what they want to believe, and in some instances denying the very foundations of Christian theological and moral doctrine.
Galadriel
Well-Known Member
@the bolded... You're speaking the truth. This is the main issue with the 'Left' organization. It's basically the same ploy of satan, just using another name for the same old purpose of leading people astray.
satan knows that his time is short... (I know... this quote has become a cliche'
). he is out to deceive many. What concerns me is that people will choose to believe a lie before they will believe God, and follow organizations like this . 
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This is the everything and everyone is o.k. in my book era. We are so PC and accepting, the line between right and wrong is hard to define. A good person nowadays is one who "accepts it all," if you don't you are a hateful jerk. To them love cannot rebuke, love cannot say when something is wrong, love must me generally accepting of everything.
The irony with these groups and organizations is that not everyone is okay in their book; they don't find everything and everyone accepting. They reject any and everyone who disagrees with them.
Their philosophy is based upon non acceptance upon those whom they take issue with. They begin by stating they are in total oppostition to the 'right'.
Ai yi yi....
It has nothing to do with the Word or the love of God...
It's based upon what 'they' want... upon making their own god which is actually themselves.
Laela
Sidestepping the "lynch mob"
stop teasin' me Laela...
But you know what?
It seems to me that 'Atheists' and Rebellious organizations have a run on good works just to prove they can outdo God or have no need for believing in or taking heed to His Word.
Okay, I've done enough damage for the day. I'm going to bed now...
Sweet sleep everyone.
I am way past my curfew... 
Laela
Sidestepping the "lynch mob"
I respect your comments... the "with or without tax breaks" just tickled me, because they could even split that hair, too..those without tax breaks being more liberal than those without..
But seriously, I do agree the rebellious always believe they have one-up on God... Bible has some good examples for us to learn from. God bless you and sweet sleep!
But seriously, I do agree the rebellious always believe they have one-up on God... Bible has some good examples for us to learn from. God bless you and sweet sleep!
I respect your comments... the "with or without tax breaks" just tickled me, because they could even split that hair, too..those without tax breaks being more liberal than those without..
But seriously, I do agree the rebellious always believe they have one-up on God... Bible has some good examples for us to learn from. God bless you and sweet sleep!
I know you do, I respect yours as well. You share so much wisdom...
As for the 'tax breaks', I'm glad that you 'caught it' too. You know me. Oh yes you do.
You knew exactly how I meant it when I said it. I was not behaving.... :blush3: Love and hugs to you and Hubbie...
to you and Hubbie too.[QUOTE=Galadriel;15612073]@Crown, I hope my tone isn't coming off as confrontational (that is not my intention). I understand that you're saying we can't judge anyone's soul (e.g., "He's going to Hell" or "He's in Hell"). However we can and should judge *outward* actions and words, especially when they contradict or deny what Christ and the Apostles have passed down to us.
The Christian Left can't have it both ways. They can't proclaim to believe in Jesus as Lord but also proclaim that He is not the only means of salvation and the Bible is not literal. They can't decry greed or wealth as sins, but say abortion and gay marriage aren't a big deal. They are picking and choosing what they want to believe, and in some instances denying the very foundations of Christian theological and moral doctrine.[/QUOTE]
erplexed Maybe we're misunderstanding each other on some point.
Yes, I understand what you are saying. I am sorry that I can not better explain what I am saying. Let me try again a last time.
The little Philadelphia is still there.
But, we are living in the prevalent and predominant Laodicean era.
Look at the large diversity in the Christianity for a One God, One Spirit, One baptize!
There is no confusion in God!
I agree : The Christian Left is distorting the Word of God for their own agenda, but they are not alone in this.
Categorizing who are Christians and who are not Christians for ME is vain like trying to decide who is in heaven or who is in hell.
Just an example:
At the same time you are saying: they are not Christians because…
Someone else is saying: Catholics are not Christians because…
Not necessary!
God knows his children and who are not.
But, what should we/they do:
2 Cor. 13 : 5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves.
Acts 17 : 11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
Here is what the Messiah is saying to His people:
Rev. 18 : 4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say:
“‘Come out of her, my people,’ so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues; 5 for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes.
Rev. 3 : 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.
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sidney
New Member
Crown, I thank you for sharing this parable because you have opened my eyes to something new, so genuinely, thanks! The son was lost by every sense of the word. But the fact that he was a son, as a ring of election/predestination to it. God knows who will repent and return to him. This father saw his son when he was afar off it says. He was expecting him! I have been lost before. But thank God I didnt lose my sonship from an eternal perspective. I agree with Shimmie about repentence. Thank God he knows who will repent. In the meantime we pray for that they come to an understanding. Come to their senses and return.
Thank you for this thread, very enlightening!
M
Thank you for this thread, very enlightening!
M
SummerSolstice
New Member
The irony with these groups and organizations is that not everyone is okay in their book; they don't find everything and everyone accepting. They reject any and everyone who disagrees with them.
Their philosophy is based upon non acceptance upon those whom they take issue with. They begin by stating they are in total oppostition to the 'right'.
Ai yi yi....
It has nothing to do with the Word or the love of God...
Right... they get mad at people for disagreeing and then they do the very thing that they hate... They were pushing for so much acceptance but they couldn't accept the fact that what I was saying was different from what they believe.
Their facebook page now has this message:
This content is currently unavailable.The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page.
What you said to them must have had some serious impact.
Galadriel
Well-Known Member
Gee whiz... we was 
It seems like the only way to view them is to 'like' them or add them as a 'friend'. 
Those options have suddenly disappeared. Not that I was going to utilize em... but ummmmm, they just disappeared.
SummerSolstice
New Member
My pastor just preached about this on Sunday too! I wonder if he saw that whole thing go down 
at the end of the sermon he closed with "sin is sin and we're all sinners... if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and smells like a duck... well its a duck"
i just met a gay man proclaiming Christ at this brunch I attended after church... that crowd is getting larger yall. its not a game. i'm not saying I don't sin but I feel bad about it afterwards. people aren't even getting convicted anymore.
at the end of the sermon he closed with "sin is sin and we're all sinners... if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and smells like a duck... well its a duck"
i just met a gay man proclaiming Christ at this brunch I attended after church... that crowd is getting larger yall. its not a game. i'm not saying I don't sin but I feel bad about it afterwards. people aren't even getting convicted anymore.
My pastor just preached about this on Sunday too! I wonder if he saw that whole thing go down
at the end of the sermon he closed with "sin is sin and we're all sinners... if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and smells like a duck... well its a duck"
i just met a gay man proclaiming Christ at this brunch I attended after church... that crowd is getting larger yall. its not a game. i'm not saying I don't sin but I feel bad about it afterwards. people aren't even getting convicted anymore.
That's the problem with the 'Left'... no repentance of sin.
They are giving 'license' to whosoever will to live as they 'choose', calling this 'free acceptance', without repentance. To them sin is no longer sin. It's accepting how one chooses to live and to cover it with 'good works'.
naturalgyrl5199
Well-Known Member
Their facebook page now has this message:
This content is currently unavailable.The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page.
What you said to them must have had some serious impact.
The group is still there. I went to that link that was put up, then logged in, and searched for the group and it came right up.
I understand what this group is attempting to do.
I like anything that is NON-JUDGMENTAL. The same way we say ppl need to turn away from homosexuality and fornication, etc, we need to turn away from people USING GOD to suppress and marginalize others. I absolutely HATE the way people latch on to conservatism and certain political groups because they put on the front of Christianity. They spend countless hours telling women they out not use birth control because its not God's way while spending talking dirty about a poor woman with many kids (whether she is married or not)...saying why have all these babies you can't afford. When all she is guilty of is letting nature run its natural course!
I think you can't have it both ways. These so-called conservative Christian groups are really the biggest danger to Christianity in many ways:
They overwhelmingly exclude minorities...
They hate and judge anyone who doesn't look or act like them.
They go out of their way to disenfranchise the poor by seeking to remove programs designed to help the poor.
WHile I DO believe homosexuality is a sin I cannot in my heart for any reason judge them and just tell them you are going to hell.
I am deadly sick of the politics that have merged with religion and our believe in Jesus Christ!
This type of exclusivity is why many people are turning away from the one true GOD DAILY! What do they see: Christians who judge, and hate, and use God as justification to achieve evil means. The whole so-called "conservative" movement to me is a CULT. I myself do believe Jesus would be a liberal by today's definition...I mean, love EVERYONE, including your neighbors and your enemies? OMG who would have thought? Spend money to help out the poor? How communist! OMG scandal....but that's what these conservative Christians claim to do...
This group has its flaws, but they are inclusive, not exclusive....I am not a member of this group but I do understand its premise...I think that this group is an attempt to say NOT ALL CHRISTIANS are like that. It burns me when I say I am a Christian Southerner and people just think we are one rigid, judgmental, ignorant, way (as portrayed in the media) and we're not.
naturalgyrl5199
Well-Known Member
That's one reason I am not part of this group....
But these things are soooo political.
I will address abortion for a quick second. I think that reversing Roe vs Wade will start a complete undoing of democracy....Once a government tells the citizen how to control its body, you open a can of worms. There is only 2 choices in the rule of abortion: 1) Reverse Roe vs Wade and protect the unborn. But you take the power away from the woman to control her body. 2) Leave Roe vs Wade and the unborn is not protected. But the power stays with the woman, the woman who is alive and on this earth.
BUT, once a government tells her what she can and cannot do to her own body--you no longer have a democratic government. This is why Republicans today are not really willing to reverse it. No matter how "pro-life" they claim to be.... You cannot in good conscious take away a person's CHOICE in a democracy. Even Jesus gives us the free will to make a CHOICE. You just have to PAY FOR THAT CHOICE. I will always believe that Christians don't need a LAW OF MAN to be created to make people do the right thing. Our laws come from one place and that will never change though kingdoms and governments will rise and fall until the end of days....But having this belief does mean I am PRO CHOICE not PRO ABORTION. One day the need for abortion will be eliminated (once poverty, adultery, and fornication---reasons for adultery are eradicated).....Unfortunately having this belief automatically in the eyes of many means I am evil, and and I am not really a Christian but whatevs....
But I believe our biggest task as Christians is for people to see us and WANT God for themselves because our light is shining the light of the Lord. Not run the minute we open our mouths....
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LadyRaider
Well-Known Member
I think that is said well, Naturalgyrl. What the government can and should do is different from what God can do.
My church (University Baptist Church in Austin) was thrown out of the Southern Baptist Convention in the mid-90s for having an openly gay deacon. In the 1940s this very same church was thrown out of the SBC for having a black deacon. And in the 1960s... you guessed it... thrown out again for having a female deacon.
They were always let back in to the SBC (except this last time) because the Christian Right eventually caught up with the Christian Left on what is the best thing for a church to be doing.
The Gay deacon has been a deal breaker, however. Heh. My church has since joined the Alliance of Baptists.
Anyway... I love my church. It is the exemplar of the Christian left. Very focused on Jesus' teachings... Who didn't seem to have gays and abortion as his priority.
My church (University Baptist Church in Austin) was thrown out of the Southern Baptist Convention in the mid-90s for having an openly gay deacon. In the 1940s this very same church was thrown out of the SBC for having a black deacon. And in the 1960s... you guessed it... thrown out again for having a female deacon.
They were always let back in to the SBC (except this last time) because the Christian Right eventually caught up with the Christian Left on what is the best thing for a church to be doing.
The Gay deacon has been a deal breaker, however. Heh. My church has since joined the Alliance of Baptists.
Anyway... I love my church. It is the exemplar of the Christian left. Very focused on Jesus' teachings... Who didn't seem to have gays and abortion as his priority.
aribell
formerly nicola.kirwan
naturalgyrl5199 said:
For me, the takeaway from your post is that the government may be God's servant, but it is not the final judge of good and evil. We all will be held accountable before the Lord for what we have done on this earth, whether it was legal or illegal when we did it; and the fact that the law allowed it will be no excuse.
The government restrains and even punishes evil, but the fact that the government does not forbid something does not make anyone do it. The sinful choices people make fall on their own heads. And it is the Church's responsibility--not that of the government--under the annointing of the Holy Spirit, to convict people of their sin and call them to repentance. The government is there for order in society, not for holiness.
I support pro-life causes, and yet am still extremely uncomfortable with granting the government the authority to say what ought to happen within a mother's body. There is a limit to the reach of the government. Yes, God knits us in our mother's womb, and every mother will stand before Him to give account for everything. Whether she chose to nurture the life within her is something she will have to account for (and hopefully those who chose not to nurture will repent and receive Christ's forgiveness). It is a deep cultural problem, and a deep cultural sin...but not really a legal or political one.
At the same time, the gov't oversteps its bounds in many ways already. So long as it's overreaching, it can save the unborn as well.
Jesus does indeed love and will reject no one. However homosexuality still has to be renounced and repented of.
Jesus STILL says, go and sin no more. Of all sins, homosexuality is the only one of which those who support it, feel there is no need for repentence.
gays cannot lead those in Christ for they are leading in unrepented sin. There is no way around this other than to turn away from it... meaning the gay lifestyle.
Again, Jesus does indeed love everyone, but His commandment to each of us is to go and sin no more.
gays cannot remain in a gay lifestyle and call themselves followers of Christ. Jesus wasn't gay neither did He promote it. He came not to change the law but to fulfill it. Among the laws, homosexuality was and still is forbidden.
Case closed.
Galadriel
Well-Known Member
This is what I think is a large part of the problem with groups like the "Christian Left," they try to sublimate their political ideology into some type of para-religious dogma. Hence their continual suggestions that Jesus was a political Messiah, a social revolutionary, etc. In the end they create a Christ of their own making who condones their sins.
My critique (and many others' critique) of them stems from a clear, firm, and rooted understanding of Christ and the Gospel, and moral objectivity.
Democracy has never (and will never) be undone because of criminalizing abortion. The democratic foundation of our society is not abortion. Abortion is the unjust murder of unborn children--this is morally true. Scripture says that willful murder is one of the sins that cry out to God for justice.
Pro-choice and Pro-abortion are the same thing.
My critique (and many others' critique) of them stems from a clear, firm, and rooted understanding of Christ and the Gospel, and moral objectivity.
Democracy has never (and will never) be undone because of criminalizing abortion. The democratic foundation of our society is not abortion. Abortion is the unjust murder of unborn children--this is morally true. Scripture says that willful murder is one of the sins that cry out to God for justice.
Pro-choice and Pro-abortion are the same thing.
LadyRaider
Well-Known Member
Jesus never talked about homosexuality as a sin. Where do you get that He said to renounce anyone?
"Go forth and renounce..." No... Jesus didn't appear to be calling for a police force to go out and separate the good from the bad.
What is His call for action if you are a Christian? What does He say He wants his followers to do?
Isaiah is one of my favorite prophets, but he doesn't speak to this issue as in his time people were sacrificing lambs to cleans themselves of sin.
Why did Jesus die on the cross if we are capable of living sinless lives?
"Go forth and renounce..." No... Jesus didn't appear to be calling for a police force to go out and separate the good from the bad.
What is His call for action if you are a Christian? What does He say He wants his followers to do?
Isaiah is one of my favorite prophets, but he doesn't speak to this issue as in his time people were sacrificing lambs to cleans themselves of sin.
Why did Jesus die on the cross if we are capable of living sinless lives?
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LadyRaider
Well-Known Member
The Christian Right has been wrong historically every time. They are not a force for progress, but a way to stunt progress. The Christian Left were the abolitionists. The Christian Right opposed the Civil Rights movement. Their agenda is not so much religious as it is to maintain the status quo. Their focus on abortion and gay rights as the biggest societal sin is in conflict with both the teachings of Jesus AND their own past teachings when they supported slavery (a societal sin) and elevated "PERSONAL" relationships with God as the way to go.
Every great human movement toward progress came from the left and was opposed by the right. They are just wrong wrong wrong every time.
Every great human movement toward progress came from the left and was opposed by the right. They are just wrong wrong wrong every time.
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